The vid is stuck in an infinite loading loop, regardless I have seen it be4.. I don't get affected emotionally by stuff like this to be honest.
Even if the cops killed the guy in cold blood, it should have been handled according to the law. I can only assume that a lot of ppl have lost faith in justice being done through the system. This speaks volumes about the state of western society.
<___< working. How am I creepy? What did I do/say wrong now!? At least I'm honest. I watched the video, I agree that it is terrible and the cops should be charged with murder... but I wasn't aware of any feelings I'm supposed to feel.
EDIT: I watched the vid again now that I'm home. Hmm, this is merely me speculating, but they should investigate what relationship the officer who knelt on the guy's neck had with him. To me it looks like they intentionally killed him.
Looks like they had past history: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a9558246.html Who knows what was going on between the two. It could be the cop was involved in some shady shit and killed him to shut him up or who knows (I'm speculating)
Last edited by SGF; 06-17-2020 at 02:53 PM.
I don't see systemic racism as something that is about particular organizations, but interwoven throughout society (so it's kind of in every organization). It doesn't mean that black people cannot get ahead in society, only that it is more difficult for them because they have to overcome more obstacles. Regarding the NFL, it took its stance against Kaepernick because it feared it would lose money from those fans offended by his kneeling during the national anthem, therefore it blocked him and he lost his job. Racism plays into that because the majority of fans who would be offended by Kaepernick's statement are white. It was a racist move on the part of the NFL. I also see it as classist considering that his bosses were preventing his freedom of expression as though he is nothing more than a representation drone for their corporate image, not an individual in his own right. Anyway, obviously not every single black person in the world is going to agree systemic racism exists, and that's not special proof of anything. Never will every single human being hold the same position on a subject.
@shotgunfingers I don't know what you're arguing about really. I don't want the US to become communist like USSR, China, or other countries. All the systems have killed a bunch of people, including capitalism.
I can't comment on racism in the USA, because I'm East European and simply don't know.
I'm a LIE, possibly and I assume its just my Ne at work making sense of all the information I tend to consume. I hope the US isn't heading towards some kind of oppressive nightmare system worse than now, but it sure looks like it from my perspective.
You are way too desensitized and gross if you can watch through someone murder another person like that and not have some kind of reaction to it.
I’m aware and so are most others about their past history. The article that you linked doesn’t specify why they had bad blood, other than a vague comment about “bumping heads” on possible rare occasions because of Chauvin being overly aggressive towards patrons at the club. It only says that Chauvin was “afraid and intimidated by black people”. So it sounds like the source of this was still mostly systemic racism anyway.
It sounds like at most, Chauvin was like “oh, I know this black dude” and was particularly motivated by that. But he wouldn’t even have these irrational feelings and motivations in the first place if racism weren’t systemically ingrained in him.
If the US were attempting to head toward an "oppressive nightmare system" (i assume you mean something totalitarian) wouldn't dismantling the police be a step in the opposite direction? I'm not saying the US is going in the opposite direction, either. Just trying to follow the reasoning.
There are significant advantages to a society in allowing the State to have a monopoly on violence, as long as that monopoly is not misused. I think the present system in the US allows misuse of force all too easily and without consequences.
I want to go back to my post about feelings having nothing to do with racism and I want to clarify because it's bugging me. Yeah obviously there are things unconsciously ingrained in the psyche and a person doesn't need to be explicitly kkk to carry racist preconceptions. But most of the anti blm stuff I'm exposed to by the people in social media circles i follow anyway are like, "you shouldn't have to feel like an inherently bad person for being white," and "you're not personally responsible for racism, you don't have to repent" stuff exacerbated by people taking the knee, lol. And I'm like ???
Somehow I can see a fact like unarmed black people are more frequently shot by police than other races and not feel personally guilty and responsible? Am I being asked to? Where? Maybe it reflects kindly on some people that they take so much personally, because they feel accountable for so much even though nobody is asking them to do that. Maybe people should stop pointing out black people are killed by police a lot cuz it makes some white people feel attacked, and their feelings matter.
I don't know. It is what it is. but now I'm annoyed that I'm expected to feel something!
He didn't look afraid or intimidated kneeling on the guy's neck.I’m aware and so are most others about their past history. The article that you linked doesn’t specify why they had bad blood, other than a vague comment about “bumping heads” on possible rare occasions because of Chauvin being overly aggressive towards patrons at the club. It only says that Chauvin was “afraid and intimidated by black people”. So it sounds like the source of this was still mostly systemic racism anyway.
Well he killed him, so he is a murderer.It sounds like at most, Chauvin was like “oh, I know this black dude” and was particularly motivated by that. But he wouldn’t even have these irrational feelings and motivations in the first place if racism weren’t systemically ingrained in him.
I don't understand how people think all this outrage, looting and vandalism will fix racism. You know you can't control what people think or feel.
Anarchy creates power vacuums, power vacuums are filled by opportunists seeking power. You should simply imagine the state as the top gang in a gang war, holding monopoly on violence.. When this monopoly breaks down, other rival gangs start moving in, taking territory & vying for power. Like what happened in that 6 block zone. Think of the mafia, its kinda like that.
Politics is just a more civilized form of gang warfare.
Last edited by SGF; 06-17-2020 at 04:45 PM.
I’m sure he was thinking that to himself too in glee, in that moment.
Of course not, Floyd was unarmed.
You are speaking like you’ve not even once been to America, or witnessed or experienced any racism with your own eyes.I don't understand how people think all this outrage, looting and vandalism will fix racism. You know you can't control what people think or feel.
That would be correct I have never been to America and I don't want to go there.
You still can't control what people think or feel. Laws & systems don't change what is inside people's minds and hearts. Example: Eastern Europe & Russia had 43+ years of enforced atheism. Today, this side of Europe is religious as fuck compared to the west. All the thought policing and system changing and god knows what totalitarian crap ppl will come up with will not fix racism.. in fact it will probably make it worse and cause a backlash.
BLM is not stupid, yet some of their actions have been, yet maybe it's what's needed to be heard? IDK, I think Obama's example has been more productive to redeem the blacks in the US, yet here we are today...
I'd like to think that these riots will do good to the black cause but this stream of vandalism is leaving me a bit perplexed honestly
Can you explain how that is analogous to the current situation in the US? Religion (or not) is something that is irrational. Not wanting to be oppressed systematically is something that is rational. Just like not wanting to be oppressed for one’s religious beliefs. If anything, it would be more analogous for racism ending because of these events.
Also, if you cannot understand how a video has made people go from point A to point B with the rioting, I don’t think you have any reason to think that your social commentary is going to be insightful or accurate.
Also, especially if you have not even seen or experienced racism (or the US) with your own eyes.
I can understand why people are doing this, that's not the problem. I don't understand why they'd think it will solve the problem. People here became more religious than normal, because it was denied to them for almost 50 years. Counterculture. You prohibit people from drinking alcohol, they will start smuggling vodka, creating underground pubs and so on.
o.o why is this so hard to understand? Just connect the dots, it all makes sense.
e_e dude this is like how I function at my core.. the more people try to control me the more I want to push back against that. EDIT: Maybe thats just me tho and I'm assuming others would be CP 6-ish and not tolerate being told what to do, think or feel. I get the need to not be oppressed, trust me.
Last edited by SGF; 06-17-2020 at 05:33 PM.
There’s a big difference between the things that you’re choosing to compare here, and reality.
Alcoholism is something that people inflict on themselves primarily when alcohol use is taken to extremes. Alcohol is safe within bounds.
Racism however is inherently inflicted towards groups of people. Sometimes that can include oneself, but it usually doesn’t.
You should try going to the middle of a riot right now espousing what you’re saying. Then I think you’d understand why people would think it would solve the problem!
Is there?
How is enjoying the taste of a glass of wine alcoholism? Why would it warrant prohibition? Why would I not break the law to enjoy the taste of a glass of wine again?Alcoholism is something that people inflict on themselves primarily when alcohol use is taken to extremes. Alcohol is safe within bounds.
How will you change the hearts and minds of racists by rioting, vandalism and thought policing? They will just consider themselves vindicated.Racism however is inherently inflicted towards groups of people. Sometimes that can include oneself, but it usually doesn’t.
You are emotional. probably not a thinking type.You should try going to the middle of a riot right now espousing what you’re saying. Then I think you’d understand why people would think it would solve the problem!
I didn’t say it was? I said alcohol is safe within bounds. Therefore you cannot compare it to racism. You are oddly unable to follow logic for a T type.
By making their lives feel threatened.How will you change the hearts and minds of racists by rioting, vandalism and thought policing?
It’s hard to feel vindicated when you are dead.
You are probably a sociopath and have serious issues. Not T type either. I type you I0E (that’s a zero).You are emotional. probably not a thinking type.
If you have no idea what racism is really like, I suggest you refrain from commenting just because you have a “counterphobic” response to being for certain beliefs. Rather than trying to play devils advocate using meaningless and wildly inaccurate comparisons @shotgunfingers . You just make yourself seem racist, when the reality is that you’re clueless and bored and agitated.
So they will hide it, blend in, feel vindicated and the problem festers & eventually reemerges as counterculture or worse a backlash?
e_e right. You can't argue against what I'm saying, because there are no good arguments to be made, so you feel frustrated and got emotional.You are probably a sociopath and have serious issues. Not T type either. I type you I0E (that’s a zero).
What I would consider a good fix:
1. No rioting, looting, no vandalism and especially not giving any racist the satisfaction of feeling vindicated.
2. Protesting peacefully.
3. Getting together as a community and start thinking of a more effective & peaceful solution.
I'm not there, I don't understand the nuances or what the fix will be for African Americans, but I do understand what it is like to be a second class citizen, a minority and exploited by western corporate capitalism.
The best revenge is managing to live a good life, to endure and prosper despite the odds. Venting anger is counterproductive.
Attacks on character are not an argument.
I don't think I said anything racist, why am I a racist now?
Imagine being so dense that you can't connect the dots between systemic racism and a country that has had slavery, jim Crowe laws, redlining and mass incarceration targeteing minorties for private prison profits..
I think the US is having a problem with extremism on both sides of the political spectrum. So I fear both some kind of left-wing Orwellian thought-policing nightmare with no freedom of speech, expression or privacy AND some kind of right-wing authoritarian police-state run by the likes of the religious right with diminished civil liberties for (in particular) people who are not white (and women and LGBTQ and anyone not Christian) and no privacy. Both propositions are scary. At the same time I don't like the status quo because it's not working for a good chunk of the country. Change is necessary, but I feel like the powers that be will just screw it all up, since I don't believe they're really interested in big changes as they like being rich and exploiting entire societies. So whatever. I would go back to not thinking about it except everything is politicized these days. Even the CDC is politicized now and I don't know if I can trust them as much as I used to as an authority because the Trump Admin has been interfering with them. Wearing a freaking mask during a pandemic is a political issue. It's like things that SHOULDN'T be political are political and facts pertaining to them are increasingly lied about or withheld for political reasons.
This probably belonged in the other thread about politics as it's only tangentially related.
Pertaining more to the topic though regarding no one making big changes... Biden proposes to increase police funding (while the Republicans think this is about a few bad cops). Most Democrats won't take "defund the Police" seriously when it's not really that radical. The idea is just to move some funding out of policing to other community resources rather than the police being the go-to for every social problem. I agree with the arguments that it's not about bad apples (bad cops), but that the entire tree is bad. At every level and practice it is the perfect instrument against black people and it historically functioned that way as well. The entire criminal justice system profits off putting black people, minorities and poor people in prison, so why would they stop. Cute little reforms like banning choke holds will not solve the problem.
Oh and the Dems and Biden aren't interested in things like ending the war on drugs (originally created to criminalize black people), or decriminalizing drugs like marijuana. Like they're not proposing things that will really take a dent out of this bad system.
Last edited by marooned; 06-17-2020 at 07:06 PM.
btw, it's preoccupying me that all these protests happen in spite of covid, like we didnt just get out of a 2/3 months quarantine like wtf.. people behave thx
I wasn't talking about systemic racism.. that's a different can of worms.
The point I wanted to make was that the riots are counterproductive and that the situation is dangerous with many potential negative outcomes.
I threw Fi into the garbage again and came off like a psychopath. I'm sorry..
covid was disproportionately killing black people and I think US has given up in general. Our politicians failed us so it's clear a lot of us will die and they don't give a shit. If the economy is shut down again it will hurt a lot of people even more because government won't follow through. People have accepted the new reality. I'll never forgive US govt for its failures with this. They send the message we're on our own? Fine. Screw them.
Russia's been a shithole as long as it was inhabited. Imperial era: shit-farming serfdom. USSR: rivers of blood and breeding men with chimps in labs. Federation: mob drug fuckhole. Life in Russia was never tolerable and unlikely ever will be. I pity them, but using them as a microcosm of the world is like using North Korea. It doesn't work.
Yeah, so the situation is obvious. Replot and rebuild all the sabotaged neighborhoods, consider forming programs to relocate the partitioned people. You've identified the problem, now we don't need to waste a decade more of oxygen murmuring about the irrepressible silent collossus of implicit bias - if a problem is psychological and distributed, then it's human nature itself and we can't correct it.
If DiScusSioNs oN RaCe in this idiot country OPENED with cases for this, instead of worthless platonic allusions to some vague struggle that began centuries ago, we might be on the road to fixing things.
Anything not concrete is a drain on time and energy and doesn't deserve the spotlight. This issue however is a concrete one. This is the discussion worth having.
@Grendel, solutions are obvious and so many black people have proposed solutions, but no one will implement them because we are politically dead. We can fight over the words we speak. We can do symbolic gestures. But no real change comes. We're bought out, that's the only thing I can think to explain it.
obstacles due to systemic racism i'm assuming... what are these exactly because people throw out these words without giving examples
I mentioned NBA/NFL because they're obviously rich AF $$$. Most of the players in the organization are black - pretty much all of them. Its been this way for a while. Could you argue that the organization is systemically racist against white people or non-blacks?Regarding the NFL,
Because they are white...Are you not allowed to disagree if you're white? What about the black fans that disagreed?Racism plays into that because the majority of fans who would be offended by Kaepernick's statement are white.
Isn't "because they are white" a racist statement in of itself?
A drone making hundred of millions of dollars. what???? lolIt was a racist move on the part of the NFL. I also see it as classist considering that his bosses were preventing his freedom of expression as though he is nothing more than a representation drone for their corporate image, not an individual in his own right.
On June 4, Kaepernick signed a six-year contract extension with the 49ers, worth up to $126 million, including $54 million in potential guarantees, and $13 million fully guaranteed.
but yea, he's a football player being paid to play football, not run for president
Lil Wayne when asked about BLMAnyway, obviously not every single black person in the world is going to agree systemic racism exists, and that's not special proof of anything. Never will every single human being hold the same position on a subject.
"What is it? What do you mean?"
"It just sounds weird (the name "BLM"), I don't know, that you put a name on it. It's not a name. It's not whatever whatever. It's somebody got shot by police and for a fucked up reason."
He'd put all the puppets here to shame
Last edited by Computer Loser; 06-18-2020 at 06:08 AM.
i guess that speaks about the life standards of blacks in murica. but i was thinking that probably these riots too are an effect of the quarantine, because tbh blacks have been killed many times, with a similar brutality, in the recent years and there's never been such a big insurgence, I mean that this episode got echoed in France, UK, Italy... I'm sure Ive seen other countries too.. and everyone had a reason to go down in the streets and protest, there's racism everywhere really, so this sparkled something... like people needed that human contact again, and protesting like this is human contact amplified.
Last edited by Computer Loser; 06-18-2020 at 07:31 AM.
We don't have a plan at all. We are stuck between a rock and a hard place. You shut down, the economy collapses. You open up infections skyrocket. The only real approach is to strike a balance. The original national shutdown, overall I think was a bad strategy, but we went for it anyways and should have committed to it to get the numbers down to the point where we could actually do some effective scientific studies to actually figure out how deadly it is. The best strategy in my opinion from the beginning would have been isolation dancing. We shouldn't have done a national shutdown, only shut down the areas that were getting hit hard. When those areas improved they open back up. When other areas get hit hard, they shut down and keep isolated. You keep repeating that and your economy never gets completely neutered, you keep case loads down, you reduce overall spread because there are less vectors at the same time, and you sustain that until you get some sort of vaccine(which probably won't be for a while). A second national shutdown will destroy the economy completely, and I see it happening very shortly. Right now, we are getting about 25k new cases a day recorded. The case rates are going up very quickly. The whole country is being hit at the same time. We really dropped the ball. This has a lot to do with panic. Like right now, even the science is panicky. They are so eager to get out scientific results that their studies are flawed in ways that are completely shocking. The amount of selection bias is staggering. None of it is being peer reviewed before release, which actually drives people into taking actions which aren't logical. TBH, we have no clue what's going on, our entire country is being overrun, and as of right now there's not really a true approach to take cause it's so wide spread. I give it 3-4 weeks before we have like 40-50k cases a day and 3-4k deaths per day. We'll probably end up with over 800k dying at the very least before the end of pandemic. If we would have held the original shutdown in place and allowed it to die down a bit, we could have still went into the isolation dance approach. Unfortunately we're long passed that.
BTW I've missed you. Where have you been?
Model X Will Save Us!
*randomwarelinkremoved
Eh, missing the point a bit. What you had to say would label you as an opponent in their eyes. You did, after all, deny a central tenet of their dogma. You seem to believe, rightfully so if you are a rational being, that "sins" must have an avenue through which they can be forgiven.
Ah my poor sorry optimist, I call them a "death cult" for damn good reason. They have a doctrine of "original sin" yet offer no real way to redeem anyone guilty of it from it's pernicious effects. Thus, they/we must all die nice and slow. Bonus: they have no limiting principle. Thus, even if all the most vile "X" (whatever they define that as) die there's always the next rung down the "stack".
Eventually, they will label "living" to be an unjust and vile "privilege" and thus the only way sentient life can "atone" is to commit suicide. Though I am quite sure the "elite" will insist that everyone else accept the "honor" of dying first.