Systemic racism does not exist, BLM is stupid

[Computer Loser]

Isolated cases of racism certainly exist (including racism against blacks and racist cops)

Systemic racism WITHIN THE POLICE FORCE, however, does NOT exist

Police aren’t going out of their way to kill and lynch black people.

Don’t believe me? Eat these facts:

--about twice as many white people than black people are killed by police
--in about 70% of police shootings, the person shot….Is not black

Keep in mind:

--60% of America is white
--18% of America is hispanic and
--13.5% of America is African-American

the majority of police shootings happen in high-crime areas, therefore you have to factor in the racial demographics in high-crime areas

Example:

--Detroit is 79% black, 14.5% white

Therefore, in shootings in Detroit, its expected to have more black people than white people shot.

Further,

In 2017,

--223 black people were shot to death by police.
--457 white people were shot to death by police.

In 2018,

--209 black people
--399 white people

In 2019,

--235 black people
--370 white people

So far in 2020,

--31 black people
--42 white people

And finally,

Armed people 75% of fatal police shootings involve a non-black person, with this ratio holding steady since 2015

Unarmed people non-black people twice as likely to be fatally shot by police

And a cherry on top,

(Under Obama)
2015- 38 unarmed blacks killed, 32 unarmed whites killed

(Under Trump)
2020- 9 unarmed blacks killed, 19 unarmed whites killed

I will end by saying

BLM (as an ORGANIZATION) is stupid.

Why?

Because they don’t actually care about black people, such as David Dorn, a 77-year old black cop/Captain (father and grandfather) who was gunned down during the protests while trying to protect a friend’s pawn shop.

George Floyd’s death was horrible… but why doesn’t BLM care about cases like this?

So that leaves us with,

How to decrease racial tension in this country?

Look. At. The. Facts.

Read.

Think.

I know it’s the FEELING/PERCEPTION. It's the MEDIA blowing certain things up and SILENCING others thing. Don't let it fool you. I know what it’s like “to feel” like something is true. But there is a time and place to feel, and a time and place to look at things objectively.



if i was black i'd sound like this dude 100%



quote from a former civil rights movement activist:

Reynolds argues that while “the civil rights movement valued all human lives, even those of people who worked against us,” BLM focuses too narrowly on “black pain and suffering,” shouting down “those who dare to utter ‘all lives matter.’” She argued that in order to “win broader appeal [the BLM Movement] must work harder to acknowledge the humanity in the lives of others.”

hey look, neo-nazi black rappers:



racist black women exist too

[sbbds]

Ok ching chong ling long, post your sources

[Computer Loser]

Isolated cases of racism certainly exist (including racism against blacks and racist cops)

Ok ching chong ling long, post your sources

1. yeah your response is my source
2. google it bitch

[sbbds]

1. yeah your response is my source
2. google it bitch lol

No one wants to take the time to Google you

[Computer Loser]

No one wants to take the time to Google you

it worked on u

[ashlesha]

I'm not going to dig through an article, so taking the numbers you shared at face value, let's see.

For every 1 black person in the US there are over 4 white people. But for every 1 black person shot by police in the US, there are about 2 white people shot by police.

Black people are 13.5% of the US population, 25% of the armed people who are shot by police, and 50% of the unarmed people shot by police.

I'm bad at math, and I encourage double checking, but this is what I see in the numbers here.

[Computer Loser]

I'm not going to dig through an article, so taking the numbers you shared at face value, let's see.

For every 1 black person in the US there are over 4 white people. But for every 1 black person shot by police in the US, there are about 2 white people shot by police.

Black people are 13.5% of the US population, 25% of the armed people who are shot by police, and 50% of the unarmed people shot by police.

I'm bad at math, and I encourage double checking, but this is what I see in the numbers here.

Thanks... its very possible i made a hiccup there's a lot of numbers i typed down lol.. i'll look over it

[inaLim]

You seem to be either misguided about what the stats are saying, or outright wrong on all points, so lets do what we can to salvage this thread.

Lets hear your analysis of this

Investigation of The Baltimore City Police Department - U.S. Department of Justice 2016
https://www.justice.gov/opa/file/883366/download

B. BPD DISCRIMINATES AGAINST AFRICAN AMERICANS IN ITS ENFORCEMENT ACTIVITIES

We find reasonable cause to believe that BPD engages in a pattern or practice of discriminatory policing against African Americans. Statistical evidence shows that the Department intrudes disproportionately upon the lives of African Americans at every stage of its enforcement activities. BPD officers disproportionately stop African Americans; search them more frequently during these stops; and arrest them at rates that significantly exceed relevant benchmarks for criminal activity. African Americans are likewise subjected more often to false arrests. Indeed, for each misdemeanor street offense that we examined, local prosecutors and booking officials dismissed a higher proportion of African-American arrests upon initial review compared to arrests of people from other racial backgrounds. BPD officers also disproportionately use force—including constitutionally excessive force—against African-American subjects. Nearly 90 percent of the excessive force incidents identified by the Justice Department review involve force used against African Americans.

1. BPD’s Enforcement Act​ivities Disproportionately Impact African Americans

There is overwhelming statistical evidence of racial disparities in BPD’s stops, searches, and arrests. ... We also found troubling trends in the sample of use of force reports we reviewed, suggesting that force may be used disproportionately against African Americans


a. Racial Disparities in Stops and Searches
b. Racial Disparities in Arrests
c. Use of Force


...In sum, we find large racial disparities in BPD’s pedestrian stops, vehicle stops, searches, and arrests. We further identified troubling indications that BPD officers disproportionately use force during encounters with African Americans on Baltimore streets.


BPD also arrests non-African Americans for drug possession offenses at somewhat higher rates than the national average and the comparison cities. As explained above, however, the proportion of BPD drug arrests of African Americans is far higher than would be expected based on drug usage data and population statistics. The comparison to law enforcement agencies in similar cities demonstrates that these disparities are not driven by legitimate responses to socioeconomic conditions. Rather, BPD’s discriminatory drug enforcement renders it a significant outlier

2. Racial Disparities in BPD’s Enforcement, Along with Evidence Suggesting Intentional Discrimination Against African Americans, Exacerbates Community Distrust


a. BPD’s Enforcement Activities Disproportionately Impact African Americans
b. BPD’s “Zero Tolerance” Strategy Focused on African-American Neighborhoods
c. Statements Exhibiting Bias Against African Americans
d. BPD Misclassifies Complaints of Racial Bias and Fails to Investigate Racial Bias Allegations


BPD fails to record complaints of racial bias or affirmatively misclassifies complaints to mask their racial components. BPD also fails to investigate allegations of biased enforcement. ...


i. BPD’s defective procedures for recording and classifying complaints of racial bias


BPD’s internal affairs database reflects only five complaints from 2010–2016 that BPD supervisors classified as alleging use of a racial slur or other racial bias.75 The absence of such records stems from at least two procedural deficiencies. As discussed above, BPD erects significant obstacles to filing complaints. And even when community members succeed in filing a complaint of racial bias according to BPD’s requirements, supervisory officers almost universally misclassify those complaints to mask their racial elements. As a result, BPD does not investigate the frequent allegations of race-related misconduct made against its officers and has no mechanism to track such allegations to correct discriminatory policing where it occurs.


Most notably, BPD supervisors affirmatively misclassify complaints of racial bias, precluding the Department from investigating or tracking bias allegations. A commander at BPD’s Internal Investigation Division told us BPD requires all complaints claiming officers used a racial epithet to be categorized as “racial slur” complaints, and BPD’s disciplinary matrix makes clear that “conduct relating to a person’s race” is a serious offense that may result in termination. Yet in nearly every case in which an officer allegedly used a racial slur, BPD officials categorized the allegation merely as “discourtesy” or using “inappropriate language.” For the complaints in which our manual review found that BPD recorded allegations that officers used the word n****r, supervisors failed to classify the complaint as a racial slur or other allegation of racial bias 98 percent of the time.


ii. BPD fails to investigate racial bias allegations


BPD further impedes accountability for discriminatory policing by departing from its procedures for investigating biased conduct. BPD supervisors repeatedly fail to seek evidence that could corroborate bias allegations and result in officer discipline.

The stats are in the PDF. What conclusions do you draw?

[timber]

Stats are one thing, the reality on the ground is a lot of black people feel upset enough about "something" to want things to change, which led to hundr D's if thousands of human apes to fill the streets and make howling noises.

Stats are one part of the picture. People are irrational with irrational motivations.

What are your proposing, if not rascism, is causing the upset?

The list here could be large.

[consentingadult]

Racism is systemic, simply because every person is a racist. All of us engage in passing judgments on other people based on stereotyping, all of us engage in social exclusion, because the Other is perceived in the most simplistic terms as different and incompatible. That all of us do it, does not make it right however, especially if we pretend to strive for what we think is a just society, to rise above our biological instincts.

A good example of this phenomenon, btw, is Socionics itself. The underlying premise of Socionics is that there are cultural differences, and therefor incompatibilities, between small groups, based on what is biologically innate to personality. A large part of racism (in the strictest sense) is not really about racial differences between people, it's about sub-cultural differences between people, but e.g. color gets the blame because that is the difference we can actually observe. But the net-effect is the same, which is that some people get excluded not because of themselves, but because of the group they are placed in. And often these people are even guilty themselves, because they accept such a frame and identify with a group. E.g. if a black person defines himself as black, he has already fallen into the trap of racism. 'Black' is not what he is, it is the color of his skin. But if he thinks he IS black and therefore can only listen to reggae and not to heavy metal, well, then.... The first step out of racism, the first step out of being treated as a stereotype, is to persistently and strongly deny that you are a stereotype in the first place. First and foremost, every single person in the end is a unique entity (which does not mean everyone is a magnificent contribution to humanity, btw). You are only a member of a particular group if you allow yourself the be defined as such, and start to believe it yourself.

Until each and everyone of us, whatever out ethnicity, stops denying and acknowledges the fact that we all tend to treat strangers as stereotypes, we cannot come to a solution in matters such as racism. Otherwise the 'struggle against racism' is just another proxy for the struggle as to who has the most power.

[consentingadult]

What's concerning is the alarming acceptance of Beta ST on Beta ST anal rape, and other unfortunate situations perpetuated by the forum's inherent Socionicism.

Just because you are the same type as someone else does not mean you can get away with hurting them any more than another type can.

You are talking about American prisons, aren't you? Everyone knows all Beta ST males are latent homosexuals, the ones that populate outlaw biker gangs, and other 'brotherhoods' such as the Nazi Sturm Abteilung. Except those that already had their coming out, of course.

What am I saying? I'm so fucking biased in my generalizations. Fortunately, so are outlaw bikers. Why else would anyone without an official function wear a uniform? To signal their preference for anal sex, of course!

[Adam Strange]

You are talking about American prisons, aren't you? Everyone knows all Beta ST males are latent homosexuals, the ones that populate outlaw biker gangs, and other 'brotherhoods' such as the Nazi Sturm Abteilung. Except those that already had their coming out, of course.

What am I saying? I'm so fucking biased in my generalizations. Fortunately, so are outlaw bikers. Why else would anyone without an official function wear a uniform? To signal their preference for anal sex, of course!

Not just any kind of anal sex. Anal rape!

Prison can be such a terrible place.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xH4ww-qas14

[ashlesha]

Stats are one thing, the reality on the ground is a lot of black people feel upset enough about "something" to want things to change, which led to hundr D's if thousands of human apes to fill the streets and make howling noises.

Stats are one part of the picture. People are irrational with irrational motivations.

What are your proposing, if not rascism, is causing the upset?

The list here could be large.

My perception of the stats is that they justify blm activities and a characterisation of reality as currently unfair wrt black people and police, but perception is paramount in that statement. I think everything is so frequently simplified with an underestimating of the importance of qualia, like the facts are the only thing that matter. Of course they're not since we live in a real world, but ignoring that is a sign of intelligence or something, lol.

That said, I impulsively hit like and reread it and just noticed the howling ape thing that I'm not going to jump up and down about because I don't know your intentions with it and my thoughts are 1 blm and monkey comparisons make for bad press 2 I've thought about the riots as animalistic in the sense that if you keep hurting a mammal it will eventually bite you regardless of species or race, lol, so I could read it from that angle. Moving along.

[ouronis]

I think the argument is more about proportions than raw numbers

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...-of-force.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sta...ack-americans/

https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/

[Hitta]

Certain forms of systemic racism do exist. People protesting and netflix having a pop of movies so that I can get woke aren't going to help solve the issue. It is a multifaceted issue, and the black community shoulders some of the blame. The issue won't be resolved until we get to the point where we can actually discuss it without someone going apeshit.

[timber]

My perception of the stats is that they justify blm activities and a characterisation of reality as currently unfair wrt black people and police, but perception is paramount in that statement. I think everything is so frequently simplified with an underestimating of the importance of qualia, like the facts are the only thing that matter. Of course they're not since we live in a real world, but ignoring that is a sign of intelligence or something, lol.

That said, I impulsively hit like and reread it and just noticed the howling ape thing that I'm not going to jump up and down about because I don't know your intentions with it and my thoughts are 1 blm and monkey comparisons make for bad press 2 I've thought about the riots as animalistic in the sense that if you keep hurting a mammal it will eventually bite you regardless of species or race, lol, so I could read it from that angle. Moving along.

We are all a species of great ape, but I see your political correct point. I'll keep the original and just add a side note that it wasn't meant to be an insult towards a group of people in particular who have had to handle the analogy in the past.

I admit I never even really considered it when I wrote it, but in retrospect, ... awkward.

I guess I can't even draw the conclusion because of culturally inherited sense of separate ness from what we really all are, a bunch of animals with personalities and idealouges living through us. Power to the people.... Good on them.

I know I would never go out into a crowd with airborne HIV floating around.

[timber]

What's concerning is the alarming acceptance of Beta ST on Beta ST anal rape, and other unfortunate situations perpetuated by the forum's inherent Socionicism.

Just because you are the same type as someone else does not mean you can get away with hurting them any more than another type can.

Who are you and what is your business here?

[End]

@Hitta, gotta disagree on the grounds of the natural tendency of humans to sort all other humans into "us/them" categories. That system, hate it as much as I and I am sure you do as well (albeit for vastly differing reasons), works for damn good reason (for, again, reasons we probably won't agree on).

This is a fallen world, only once we accept that can we even begin to try and solve the baseline problems. Those who complain about "systemic racism" are blind to their own. They see the likes of me as the literal "demons" of their religion (and I assure you, those that call me a demon/racist/etc. are quite religious in ways I could go on such that I could literally write a doorstopper of a novel as I described it all in the most minute detail).

Bask in the absurdity of that. I mean, am I a true and mortal threat to anyone here? Are the mere binary codes my typing translates to in the eyes of the servers here really, truly that threatening to anyone? A question worth answering for me anyway. I could always use more data ...

[consentingadult]

The issue won't be resolved until we get to the point where we can actually discuss it without someone going apeshit.

And the subject is already being hijacked by people who have various hidden agendas and benefit from going apeshit, or driving other people to going apeshit. They have a name for such people, it's 'politicians'. 'Politicians' in the broadest sense of the word, i.e. people seeking political power.

[inaLim]

Where are you OP @onfireee I thought you like facts. Or are you trolling for an emotional response.

[gone]

oops haha you made an ass of yourself, luckily it's only online

[Computer Loser]

Racism is systemic, simply because every person is a racist. .

systemic as in going out of ur way lynching and killing a particular group of people, like black people lol

but ur right there's a lot of racism and general bigotry on this forum

(*cough* 16 types mods @Aylen *cough* )

[Computer Loser]

You seem to be either misguided about what the stats are saying, or outright wrong on all points, so lets do what we can to salvage this thread.

Lets hear your analysis of this

Investigation of The Baltimore City Police Department - U.S. Department of Justice 2016
https://www.justice.gov/opa/file/883366/download









The stats are in the PDF. What conclusions do you draw?

what are they arguing? did YOU read it? lol

Where are you OP @onfireee I thought you like facts. Or are you trolling for an emotional response.

sup bro im here

[Computer Loser]

Stats are one thing, the reality on the ground is a lot of black people feel upset enough about "something" to want things to change, which led to hundr D's if thousands of human apes to fill the streets and make howling noises.

Stats are one part of the picture. People are irrational with irrational motivations.

What are your proposing, if not rascism, is causing the upset?

The list here could be large.

well its kinda like the feminist movement; they don't really care about women, they only care about advancing their own agenda.

what does BLM/liberal progressives want?

to advance their own agenda

[Computer Loser]

Where are you OP @onfireee I thought you like facts.

the fact of the matter:

--protesters burning down starbucks when starbucks actually helps the underprivileged

--Corrupt mayors helping protesters do their thing.... when the protesters want to take down the mayors

--the fact of the matter is NONE of you guys can admit this is wrong

--the fact of the matter is NONE of you guys can take a stand because you guys are cowards and are afraid of being disliked

--We need UNITY not division and destruction. WAKE UP PEOPLE this country needs YOUR help!!!

[Computer Loser]

[ashlesha]

Extremes on both sides of "who cares about target" and "the entire city of Minneapolis is burning to the ground" are both fuckin stupid but as someone who doesn't drive my heart goes out most to people who live nearby and can't use the burnt stores to get food for their families. Also there are small business owners with burnt up shit so if you wanna appeal to people who aren't right wing, that angle would definitely be more effective than "think about Starbucks."

[inaLim]

what are they arguing? did YOU read it? lol

The title of your thread is "Systemic racism does not exist, BLM is stupid"


Then you open with

Isolated cases of racism certainly exist (including racism against blacks and racist cops)

Systemic racism, however, does NOT exist"

Police aren't going out of their way to kill and lynch black people.

And then I link you to a Federal Investigation of The Baltimore City Police Department by the U.S. Department of Justice saying systemic racism does, in fact exist.
https://www.justice.gov/opa/file/883366/download

Where between

A -> "Systemic racism does not exist"

and

B -> Statistical evidence shows that the Department intrudes disproportionately upon the lives of African Americans at every stage of its enforcement activities

did you get lost on what they are arguing @onfireee?

- The statistics show it isn't isolated cases
- The statistics show it is systemic in the department
- The statistics show the police in that department are going out of their way to target blacks

[inaLim]

the fact of the matter:

--protesters burning down starbucks when starbucks actually helps the underprivileged

--Corrupt mayors helping protesters do their thing.... when the protesters want to take down the mayors

--the fact of the matter is NONE of you guys can admit this is wrong

--the fact of the matter is NONE of you guys can take a stand because you guys are cowards and are afraid of being disliked

--We need UNITY not division and destruction. WAKE UP PEOPLE this country needs YOUR help!!!

I was told there would be facts, so lets dig in.


Yes I'm sure Starbucks helps the underprivileged in some way. And you have a picture of protesters burning down Starbucks. Fact. Good job.

Next fact. Uh.. Now we're on corruption? I'm going to have to put this down as judgement of character

Next fact. No, wait.. This an assessment of the forum's moral judgment. Also, not true. Burning down people's businesses is wrong. I said it. Scratch that one off the list.

Maybe we'll get a fact soon. No, wait.. now its coward shaming.

Final act. Please actually be a fact. ...Aaaaand we wrap up with a vague call to action. Is the forum supposed to fly out to Minneapolis for a meetup?


That was quite the appeal to civility, right and wrong, individuality, and cooperation. Little facts or logic, but I'm sure someone was touched by the sentiment. Maybe we should have a chat about the LSI flair...

[Computer Loser]

I was told there would be facts, so lets dig in.


Yes I'm sure Starbucks helps the underprivileged in some way. And you have a picture of protesters burning down Starbucks. Fact. Good job.

Next fact. Uh.. Now we're on corruption? I'm going to have to put this down as judgement of character

Next fact. No, wait.. This an assessment of the forum's moral judgment. Also, not true. Burning down people's businesses is wrong. I said it. Scratch that one off the list.

Maybe we'll get a fact soon. No, wait.. now its coward shaming.

Final act. Please actually be a fact. ...Aaaaand we wrap up with a vague call to action. Is the forum supposed to fly out to Minneapolis for a meetup?


That was quite the appeal to civility, right and wrong, individuality, and cooperation. Little facts or logic, but I'm sure someone was touched by the sentiment. Maybe we should have a chat about the LSI flair...

OK buddy lol

[Computer Loser]

Extremes on both sides of "who cares about target" and "the entire city of Minneapolis is burning to the ground" are both fuckin stupid but as someone who doesn't drive my heart goes out most to people who live nearby and can't use the burnt stores to get food for their families. Also there are small business owners with burnt up shit so if you wanna appeal to people who aren't right wing, that angle would definitely be more effective than "think about Starbucks."

I used starbucks as an example

[Computer Loser]

The title of your thread is "Systemic racism does not exist, BLM is stupid"


Then you open with



And then I link you to a Federal Investigation of The Baltimore City Police Department by the U.S. Department of Justice saying systemic racism does, in fact exist.
https://www.justice.gov/opa/file/883366/download

Where between

A -> "Systemic racism does not exist"

and

B -> Statistical evidence shows that the Department intrudes disproportionately upon the lives of African Americans at every stage of its enforcement activities

did you get lost on what they are arguing @onfireee?

- The statistics show it isn't isolated cases
- The statistics show it is systemic in the department
- The statistics show the police in that department are going out of their way to target blacks

??????

This is a report on the baltimore city department in 2016, not the whole police in the US

@inaLim

Anything else?

[inaLim]

??????

This is a report on the baltimore city department in 2016, not the whole police in the US

@inaLim

Anything else?

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/08/u...or-blacks.html

The study of thousands of use-of-force episodes from police departments across the nation has concluded what many people have long thought, but which could not be proved because of a lack of data: African-Americans are far more likely than whites and other groups to be the victims of use of force by the police, even when racial disparities in crime are taken into account.

@onfireee

[inaLim]

Or we can do this the long way if you want @onfireee

Chicago

Chicago Police Dept. Plagued by Systemic Racism, Task Force Finds

“C.P.D.’s own data gives validity to the widely held belief the police have no regard for the sanctity of life when it comes to people of color,” the task force wrote. “Stopped without justification, verbally and physically abused, and in some instances arrested, and then detained without counsel — that is what we heard about over and over again.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/14/u...inds.html?_r=0

[Computer Loser]

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/08/u...or-blacks.html




@onfireee

@inaLim

this study measured "USE OF FORCE":

did not seek to determine whether the employment of force in any particular instance was justified, but the center’s researchers found that the disparity in which African-Americans were subjected to police force remained consistent across what law enforcement officers call the use-of-force continuum

whether it was JUSTIFIED was NOT determined in these studies.

study "SUPPORTS SUSPICION"

btw, i posted stats on DEATH as a result of POLICE SHOOTINGS

[inaLim]

You can have a nationwide study or you can have a local study with fine-grain digging into whether force was justified or not. It is not feasible to do both in one study when you are asking researchers to do background on over 19,000 cases.


How about you save us some time and list out your criteria.

How many cities before it is systemic? What would be unjustified in your eyes? Is assault of an unarmed civilian enough? Does it only count as racism if they die?
@onfireee

[Computer Loser]

You can have a nationwide study or you can have a study with fine-grain digging into whether force was justified or not. It is not feasible to do both in one study when you are asking researchers to do background on over 19,000 cases.


How about you save us some time and list out your criteria.

How many cities before it is systemic? What would be unjustified in your eyes? Is unarmed assault enough? Does it only count as racism if they die?
@onfireee

no
u stink

[inaLim]

u stink

lol. Hey, at least you tried right?

No bizarre oversize fonts and bolding.

No mouthbreather level memes in place of an actual argument.

Good progress was made here.

[inaLim]

Spoke too soon. We have regressed to picture-talk.

Okay, uh, lets see


"A is for A-P-P-L-E"

"S is for S-T-E-M"

"B is for Bombing the behavioural portion of your interviews because your social skills maxxed out at baiting strangers and talking in pictures"

[inaLim]

Yes good idea to delete that @onfireee. It was not a good look for you lol