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Thread: SLI-IEI superego

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    Default SLI-IEI superego

    Hi. Are we doomed to fail. It's not romantic- a friendship.
    Anyone have experience with this relation?
    Socionics is cool and all, but the thing is the whole ITR is scarily accurate in my experience, and it's like. OK Cassandra. I know you're right, but go die in a hole.

    Anyway, is there anything I can do to make it work better? My friendship with this particular SLI. For now everything is fine and dandy and we get along well, and I really like him. I think he's a Si-sub because so far i haven't felt too irritated by any Te.

    What was obvious right away to me was that he's an introvert and a thinker (clearly not ethical especially Fe), but sometimes he catches me so off guard with how considerate (even sweet) he is in his own way to me. I'm always hesitant to assume things about people who I know think so different than me, but from how he acts towards me I would say that he does genuinely care about me to some extent.

    Also, I read that superegos usually don't get too bad if the individuals are not forced to be too close together for too long. I think one thing that helps is that we are not always around each other (and mostly only virtually now because of social distancing) and we have a common interest, we always play a game called Overwatch together. It's always just us two, that's how we like it.

    QUESTIONS:
    • Although I'm a pretty strong Ni-sub, I'm worried my Fe can still "hurt" him, and I try to subdue it a bit, but.. yeah idk. i'm an expressive person (if i'm comfortable) and should i try to subdue how i do it a little less?
    • Also, how do SLIs usually go about the process of getting to know someone? do they need a lot of space? Do people that go too fast/expressive of affection turn them off, or do they welcome it somewhat? sometimes i wonder if i make him uncomfortable with my questions, or if i annoy him by my request of a daily song recommendation, for example.
    • What kinds of things annoy them? Do you think he minds that I like to roast him a lot? I can tell that on the inside he's slightly insecure, and I can't really gauge if sometimes he takes what i say to heart (although he also isn't afraid to roast me as well).
    • Also, SLI are "caregivers" so they like to "teach" in a way? They like that? We like to play this game together and I always ask how tf do i get better aim like you.
    • also, how do they react to personal criticism? i know with SLEs or ILEs to a lesser extent, i can openly tell them why they suck (because i care for them), but i don't know how he would react. i probably would have to temper my bluntness a bit. he tricks me cause it seems like he could take it but perhaps it's a bit too harsh, which is totally understandable
    • and, do they mind, or do they find it annoying or something, if i openly express my affection for them? for example, he always wants me to play because "you're my carry" (it means "I only win bc of you") but when i say something back like "No you're MY carry <3" is that uncomfortable for them? cause he never replies to those so idk how he takes it.
    • how do SLIs take compliments?



    PS: he recommended the show Avatar to me, so after watching the first episode, he mentioned how his sister told him he's like Sokka (one of the main characters) and i was like. omg i was literally thinking the same thing!! (i really was. they're so alike hihi) (i mean, Sokka seems so SLI to me too, now that i think of it)
    He asked, why? I said: because you're like a grumpy old man at heart, but in a good way. he said, i don't see how that could be a good thing. i said, it's cute! (would that also be an example of something that could make an SLI?)


    Thank you if you read all this. Also please don't roast me for overanalyzing this (
    Thank you to any SLIs who tell me what they think

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    ALSO, I mentioned how he sometimes has low self-esteem deep-down. It's kind of subtle. It's not like he's always vocally putting himself down and stuff.
    Is there anything I can do to gently encourage him? What kind of support would an SLI respond to best in this regard?
    because it makes me sad..

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    silke's Avatar
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    Being a child of a superego marriage, I would say run.

    Hope this has answered some of your questions.

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    Superego partners can form excellent working relationships because they seem to inherently understand each other's processes. A deep, long-lasting, romantic relationship will depend more on the baggage and hang-ups that each partner has and will accumulate. I've seen these relationships succeed and fail but I can say the same for duals. A common problem for SLI-IEI pairs is that they both can develop siege mentalities toward one another; partners can think they're right and won't compromise. When those Ip-walls go up, effective communication usually goes down because both become too defensive. The key to longevity is being able to put up with the other's baggage when it's metaphorically all strewn about and you have to step around some of it each day.

    a.k.a. I/O
    Last edited by Rebelondeck; 05-31-2020 at 09:17 AM.

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    I'm not gonna be super useful as I have a rather restrained and superficial experience with SLIs but I just have a genuine question for you. How do you deal with his Fe Polr ? Personally it would seem like a real issue, at least for a long-term relationship. My experience with xLis more especially ILIs (even if god knows that I like them most of the time) is that they just tend to shut down every single displays of Fe even more when you bring a Fe matter in a discussion where they tend to throw at me some assumptions that just implies their disinterest or just dodge it like nothing just happened. Sorry that I don't really answer to your thread, I'm just curious.

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    Don't try to adapt to other person, be yourself. It's better to find people who are compatible with us for close relationships, others should be kept at distance where differences in values don't cause problems.

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    Rebelondeck's Avatar
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    @spectremetrique IEI-SLI relationships don't have great natural communication skills so significant patience and experience is required. IEIs seem to be able to easily talk with other NFs and SLIs with other STs but they quickly find out that those individuals offer little that is useful or insightful, and communication tends to revolve around nothing much more than semantics. IEIs are great observers of human interaction; they usually can look quite deep if they're so inclined but the other person has to be somewhat important to them. SLIs are often oblivious to such matters and may need to be shown some leadership but IEIs have been known to hold back until it's too late.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    @spectremetrique IEI-SLI relationships don't have great natural communication skills so significant patience and experience is required. IEIs seem to be able to easily talk with other NFs and SLIs with other STs but they quickly find out that those individuals offer little that is useful or insightful, and communication tends to revolve around nothing much more than semantics. IEIs are great observers of human interaction; they usually can look quite deep if they're so inclined but the other person has to be somewhat important to them. SLIs are often oblivious to such matters and may need to be shown some leadership but IEIs have been known to hold back until it's too late.

    a.k.a. I/O
    Thanks for the insight :)
    There is just one tiny thing that bugs me off when you say that having connections with people of the same club is not useful. Maybe there is not much room for growth inside those relationships, I can consider it. Although affirming right away that they are mostly bland and without substance seems to me like a huge generalization for me. What makes you say that ? If you don't mind answering my question for sure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatte View Post
    ALSO, I mentioned how he sometimes has low self-esteem deep-down. It's kind of subtle. It's not like he's always vocally putting himself down and stuff.
    Is there anything I can do to gently encourage him? What kind of support would an SLI respond to best in this regard?
    because it makes me sad..
    @chocolatte, Dealing with this is going to be difficult for you, because his self-esteem issues are Fi-related, and while you have 4D Fi, you don't value it and so will use it jokingly. Which is very much the wrong approach.

    If you want to be supportive with respect to his self-esteem issue, never ever mention it. It doesn't exist. Not in your mind, not in his. If you even bring this up, you will be hammering hard on a thin glass floor over a precipice and you can expect the same outcome. However, you are allowed to tell him how much you APPRECIATE him. Use that word, maybe once every two weeks, especially after he has done something Si for you. That will fix much of the problem without the chance of breaking your relationship irrevocably.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spectremetrique View Post
    Thanks for the insight
    There is just one tiny thing that bugs me off when you say that having connections with people of the same club is not useful. Maybe there is not much room for growth inside those relationships, I can consider it. Although affirming right away that they are mostly bland and without substance seems to me like a huge generalization for me. What makes you say that ? If you don't mind answering my question for sure.
    They can offer slightly different approaches in processing. However, they tend to input the same type of information and their rationalization outcomes can be very similar. Now, different NF-types who live separately acquire different experiences that are easily transferable and perhaps helpful initially from an education perspective. When the two NFs live together a large portion of future experience is common and because of their similarities in processing preferences, they tend to discuss aspects like interpretation rather than anything substantially different like that which an ST might provide. This doesn't imply that one cannot be perfectly happy in a NF-NF relationship.
    a.k.a. I/O

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    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    So are you sure he is SLI and not for example LSI?
    A true sense-perception certainly exists, but it always looks as though objects were not so much forcing their way into the subject in their own right as that the subject were seeing things quite differently, or saw quite other things than the rest of mankind. As a matter of fact, the subject perceives the same things as everybody else, only, he never stops at the purely objective effect, but concerns himself with the subjective perception released by the objective stimulus.
    (Jung on Si)


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    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatte View Post
    Hi. Are we doomed to fail. It's not romantic- a friendship.
    Anyone have experience with this relation?
    Socionics is cool and all, but the thing is the whole ITR is scarily accurate in my experience, and it's like. OK Cassandra. I know you're right, but go die in a hole.

    Anyway, is there anything I can do to make it work better? My friendship with this particular SLI. For now everything is fine and dandy and we get along well, and I really like him. I think he's a Si-sub because so far i haven't felt too irritated by any Te.

    What was obvious right away to me was that he's an introvert and a thinker (clearly not ethical especially Fe), but sometimes he catches me so off guard with how considerate (even sweet) he is in his own way to me. I'm always hesitant to assume things about people who I know think so different than me, but from how he acts towards me I would say that he does genuinely care about me to some extent.

    Also, I read that superegos usually don't get too bad if the individuals are not forced to be too close together for too long. I think one thing that helps is that we are not always around each other (and mostly only virtually now because of social distancing) and we have a common interest, we always play a game called Overwatch together. It's always just us two, that's how we like it.

    QUESTIONS:

    • Although I'm a pretty strong Ni-sub, I'm worried my Fe can still "hurt" him, and I try to subdue it a bit, but.. yeah idk. i'm an expressive person (if i'm comfortable) and should i try to subdue how i do it a little less?
    Not if what you are expressing is Fi instead of Fe. This means deep-down, non-verbal caring, if you weren’t sure. It means enjoying each other’s company without ever mentioning it, but rather, showing it.
    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatte View Post

    • Also, how do SLIs usually go about the process of getting to know someone? do they need a lot of space? Do people that go too fast/expressive of affection turn them off, or do they welcome it somewhat? sometimes i wonder if i make him uncomfortable with my questions, or if i annoy him by my request of a daily song recommendation, for example.
    SLI’s basically decide if they like you. They will never tell you if they like you. You can only get a hint that they like you from the fact that they will sometimes return your calls.
    Yes, SLI’s need a lot of space. They will make themselves absent when they need to. Don’t take it personally. Probably. They really are only good for a few minutes of interaction per day with the best of people.
    They can be surprised when people try to get close fast, but that alone doesn’t offend them. It is the person that either offends them or doesn’t.
    For example, IEE’s are instantly all over someone they like. It is the manner in which IEE’s are all over them that makes them tolerable to the SLI.
    As for your constant questions, SLI’s are used to that. IEE’s are Ne-unstable Infantiles and have lots of crazy suggestions and lots of crazy questions, and SLI’s are stabilizing influences. Your friend is probably not offended by your questions, as long at they are kept concrete. You start asking him about yoga in the fifth dimension and you are going to lose points pretty fast. Keep the questions to “Does my blue dress or my green dress look better?” “Is the DeWalt or Milwaukee brand of hand tools better?”
    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatte View Post

    • What kinds of things annoy them? Do you think he minds that I like to roast him a lot? I can tell that on the inside he's slightly insecure, and I can't really gauge if sometimes he takes what i say to heart (although he also isn't afraid to roast me as well).
    In my experience, SLI’s are annoyed by two-faced people. Really annoyed. Also by mentally unhealthy people. Or mean people. SLI-Te’s are actually annoyed by too much Ne, and SLI-Si’s are annoyed by too much Ni.
    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatte View Post

    • Also, SLI are "caregivers" so they like to "teach" in a way? They like that? We like to play this game together and I always ask how tf do i get better aim like you.
    • also, how do they react to personal criticism? i know with SLEs or ILEs to a lesser extent, i can openly tell them why they suck (because i care for them), but i don't know how he would react. i probably would have to temper my bluntness a bit. he tricks me cause it seems like he could take it but perhaps it's a bit too harsh, which is totally understandable
    Nobody likes personal criticism. If you are not their dual, just don’t go there.
    If he’s doing something truly egregious, just tell him that it makes you want to leave for Paris. This is pretty serious, though, and if I were you, I wouldn’t try it. Just let it go.
    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatte View Post

    • and, do they mind, or do they find it annoying or something, if i openly express my affection for them? for example, he always wants me to play because "you're my carry" (it means "I only win bc of you") but when i say something back like "No you're MY carry <3" is that uncomfortable for them? cause he never replies to those so idk how he takes it.
    • how do SLIs take compliments?
    If the compliment is real and heart-felt, then it’s OK. They won’t acknowledge it, because Fi doesn’t do that (Fi is submarine-feels, you know; run silent, run deep), but they will appreciate it. Assume that the brick you tossed to them was set aside and will be added to the foundation of the relationship when you are out of sight.
    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatte View Post


    PS: he recommended the show Avatar to me, so after watching the first episode, he mentioned how his sister told him he's like Sokka (one of the main characters) and i was like. omg i was literally thinking the same thing!! (i really was. they're so alike hihi) (i mean, Sokka seems so SLI to me too, now that i think of it)
    He asked, why? I said: because you're like a grumpy old man at heart, but in a good way. he said, i don't see how that could be a good thing. i said, it's cute! (would that also be an example of something that could make an SLI?)

    All SLI’s are grumpy old men. Even when they are thirteen year-old girls. Count on it.
    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatte View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatte View Post

    Thank you if you read all this. Also please don't roast me for overanalyzing this [IMG]file:///C:/Users/owner/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.png[/IMG](
    Thank you to any SLIs who tell me what they think[IMG]file:///C:/Users/owner/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image002.png[/IMG] [IMG]file:///C:/Users/owner/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image003.gif[/IMG]

    [/QUOTE]

    [QUOTE=chocolatte;1390177]

    Have fun with this relationship, but please realize that opposite-quadra relationships are like being exposed to radioactive materials. You can do “close” for a short time if you wait long periods of time between exposures, and you can do “distant” forever, because the damage occurs at rates lower than the repairs which take place. But “close” and “all the time” is going to be bad. For both of you.

    I have lived with SLI’s all my life. My father, ex-wife, son, some friends, and some employees are all SLI. I like them. They are stable and are hard workers, and they don’t like drama. I have never once heard an SLI criticize someone in my entire life. They do criticize people mentally, sometimes very harshly, but they don’t say that out loud.
    Except once.
    I was sitting in a restaurant with some guys from work and an SLI-Si sat down and started to tell us about a really irritating female he’d just encountered, and how stupid she was and how irrational she was, and I thought “Whoa. I’ve never seen this before. I wonder who could have rubbed him so wrong?” And as he went on, it gradually dawned on me that he was talking about the IEI-Fe at the restaurant that I’ve actually dated (I don’t share much with the guys I work with). She’s an incredibly nice person, but yes, she’s definitely IEI-Fe, with all that goes with that. She has loads of Fe and really is Te-PoLR, and if you yourself are Fe-PoLR and Te-Creative, then that might not make the best first impression.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 05-31-2020 at 02:59 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by silke View Post
    Being a child of a superego marriage, I would say run.

    Hope this has answered some of your questions.
    My brother and mom are superego as well They clash a lot and are both stubborn as fuck, but at the end of the day they still grudgingly love each other.

    Quote Originally Posted by spectremetrique View Post
    I'm not gonna be super useful as I have a rather restrained and superficial experience with SLIs but I just have a genuine question for you. How do you deal with his Fe Polr ? Personally it would seem like a real issue, at least for a long-term relationship. My experience with xLis more especially ILIs (even if god knows that I like them most of the time) is that they just tend to shut down every single displays of Fe even more when you bring a Fe matter in a discussion where they tend to throw at me some assumptions that just implies their disinterest or just dodge it like nothing just happened. Sorry that I don't really answer to your thread, I'm just curious.
    So far it's not too much of an issue, and like I said we only see each other sparingly (and moreso virtually now because of quarantine), so, at least, in this environment it's not really so noticeable.
    I have more experience with Fe-PoLR of my ILI father.. I never noticed it too much but now that I'm stuck with my family all day it's becoming more and more of an issue from my side that prevents us from getting any closer past a certain point. I wonder how my Te PoLR may bother him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    @spectremetrique IEI-SLI relationships don't have great natural communication skills so significant patience and experience is required. IEIs seem to be able to easily talk with other NFs and SLIs with other STs but they quickly find out that those individuals offer little that is useful or insightful, and communication tends to revolve around nothing much more than semantics. IEIs are great observers of human interaction; they usually can look quite deep if they're so inclined but the other person has to be somewhat important to them. SLIs are often oblivious to such matters and may need to be shown some leadership but IEIs have been known to hold back until it's too late.

    a.k.a. I/O
    In this relationship it seems I've naturally fallen into the rhythm of being the one who shows a bit more leadership (relative to my normal amounts, so, still not that much lol).

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    @chocolatte, Dealing with this is going to be difficult for you, because his self-esteem issues are Fi-related, and while you have 4D Fi, you don't value it and so will use it jokingly. Which is very much the wrong approach.

    If you want to be supportive with respect to his self-esteem issue, never ever mention it. It doesn't exist. Not in your mind, not in his. If you even bring this up, you will be hammering hard on a thin glass floor over a precipice and you can expect the same outcome. However, you are allowed to tell him how much you APPRECIATE him. Use that word, maybe once every two weeks, especially after he has done something Si for you. That will fix much of the problem without the chance of breaking your relationship irrevocably.
    Yes of course, I would never bring it up like that. I don't plan on becoming a life therapist or something, I just want to know how I can help in a small way like any friend would do. how I can be respectful of the issue and not accidentally say/do something wrong, or what I can say/do right that will show I (like you said) appreciate him.
    What are some examples of something Si?
    Also, what would a joking way of using Fi be? Sorry, I'm just asking because it's sometimes hard to translate the theoretical into real life without an example sometimes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatte View Post
    Yes of course, I would never bring it up like that. I don't plan on becoming a life therapist or something, I just want to know how I can help in a small way like any friend would do. how I can be respectful of the issue and not accidentally say/do something wrong, or what I can say/do right that will show I (like you said) appreciate him.
    No, don't show him you appreciate him. Tell him. And you have to use the exact words, "I appreciate xxxxx." And then leave it at that. It's the best thing you can tell an SLI.
    Try it. You will find that it is a Super Power with SLI's, so don't abuse it.
    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatte View Post
    What are some examples of something Si?
    Si is dressing comfortably and sensibly, being fastidious about one's health and habits, being clean and polite, ensuring that the atmosphere is friendly and safe, not being a public nuisance. Additionally, SLI's will go out of their way to give you real assistance. Not advice, but a new set of kitchen cabinets or something like that. And will ask for nothing in return. Because it's what they do.
    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatte View Post
    Also, what would a joking way of using Fi be? Sorry, I'm just asking because it's sometimes hard to translate the theoretical into real life without an example sometimes.
    I've heard an IEI tell me in a business meeting that she knows I forget everything, implying that I'm an idiot but she'll still cover for me because she's on my side. On the one hand, she was publicly claiming intimate knowledge of me (Fi) (which was true) but on the other, she was not being helpful in a truly Fi way.

    The banter, maybe seduction, between an IEI and an SLE consists of testing each other's strengths to find out if the other person will be a reliable partner in a hostile world. This testing can take the form of mutual public insults. For these Duals, this is part of the game. To an Fi-valuing person, it is a relationship breaker. Fi-valuers already know the world can be a hostile place and they need an unseen, unbreakable connection to a reliable partner, so a public attack of any sort, joking or not, represents a violation of that bond.

    I have seen a female IEI publicly tell a male SLE to get his shit together because he was screwing up. For her, that was her role; what she was born to do. (She is wise and sees the future.) For him, it was strategic advice that he needed most. (He is strong, he can take that advice and use it to conquer.) For an Fi-valuer, it would be reason to exit the relationship.

    This is really why it is so hard to get really close to people of the opposite quadra. Your best intentions are seen as attacks, because of the oppositely valued functions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    So are you sure he is SLI and not for example LSI?
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Not if what you are expressing is Fi instead of Fe. This means deep-down, non-verbal caring, if you weren’t sure. It means enjoying each other’s company without ever mentioning it, but rather, showing it.
    Okay, I see! Thanks for clarifying it.

    SLI’s basically decide if they like you. They will never tell you if they like you. You can only get a hint that they like you from the fact that they will sometimes return your calls.
    Yes, SLI’s need a lot of space. They will make themselves absent when they need to. Don’t take it personally. Probably. They really are only good for a few minutes of interaction per day with the best of people.
    Yep, that's what I figured. Anyway, I'm also someone who needs my space as well (unless I really really like you) so it's not really a problem.

    As for your constant questions, SLI’s are used to that. IEE’s are Ne-unstable Infantiles and have lots of crazy suggestions and lots of crazy questions, and SLI’s are stabilizing influences. Your friend is probably not offended by your questions, as long at they are kept concrete. You start asking him about yoga in the fifth dimension and you are going to lose points pretty fast. Keep the questions to “Does my blue dress or my green dress look better?” “Is the DeWalt or Milwaukee brand of hand tools better?”
    OK cool. I always ask him a bunch of dumb things like "what is ping" and i'm glad it probably doesn't annoy him

    If the compliment is real and heart-felt, then it’s OK. They won’t acknowledge it, because Fi doesn’t do that (Fi is submarine-feels, you know; run silent, run deep), but they will appreciate it. Assume that the brick you tossed to them was set aside and will be added to the foundation of the relationship when you are out of sight.
    got it! thanks, you were very helpful.



    Their grumpiness has a charm, haha.


    Have fun with this relationship, but please realize that opposite-quadra relationships are like being exposed to radioactive materials. You can do “close” for a short time if you wait long periods of time between exposures, and you can do “distant” forever, because the damage occurs at rates lower than the repairs which take place. But “close” and “all the time” is going to be bad. For both of you.
    Alright, well good for us because we are only exposed to each other in small doses, and I'm perfectly happy with that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    No, don't show him you appreciate him. Tell him. And you have to use the exact words, "I appreciate xxxxx." And then leave it at that. It's the best thing you can tell an SLI.
    Try it. You will find that it is a Super Power with SLI's, so don't abuse it.

    Si is dressing comfortably and sensibly, being fastidious about one's health and habits, being clean and polite, ensuring that the atmosphere is friendly and safe, not being a public nuisance. Additionally, SLI's will go out of their way to give you real assistance. Not advice, but a new set of kitchen cabinets or something like that. And will ask for nothing in return. Because it's what they do.


    I've heard an IEI tell me in a business meeting that she knows I forget everything, implying that I'm an idiot but she'll still cover for me because she's on my side. On the one hand, she was publicly claiming intimate knowledge of me (Fi) (which was true) but on the other, she was not being helpful in a truly Fi way.

    The banter, maybe seduction, between an IEI and an SLE consists of testing each other's strengths to find out if the other person will be a reliable partner in a hostile world. This testing can take the form of mutual public insults. For these Duals, this is part of the game. To an Fi-valuing person, it is a relationship breaker. Fi-valuers already know the world can be a hostile place and they need an unseen, unbreakable connection to a reliable partner, so a public attack of any sort, joking or not, represents a violation of that bond.

    I have seen a female IEI publicly tell a male SLE to get his shit together because he was screwing up. For her, that was her role; what she was born to do. (She is wise and sees the future.) For him, it was strategic advice that he needed most. (He is strong, he can take that advice and use it to conquer.) For an Fi-valuer, it would be reason to exit the relationship.

    This is really why it is so hard to get really close to people of the opposite quadra. Your best intentions are seen as attacks, because of the oppositely valued functions.
    Thank you.

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