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Thread: Quadra complexes and psychosexual stages

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    Lightbulb Quadra complexes and psychosexual stages

    I think I noticed a pattern between Quadra complexes and psychosexual stages.

    Oral stage -> Alpha Quadra
    Oral passive personality: emphasizes dependency, overeating, and immaturity (alpha NT, and SEI), overindulgence
    Oral aggressive personality: manipulation, and verbal aggression to satisfy personal needs (alpha SF, and ILE), under indulgence

    Anal stage -> Beta Quadra
    Anal retentive: stubbornness, perfectionism, and rigidity (beta ST, and EIE), strict control
    Anal expulsive: carelessness, disorganization, creativity, and emotionality (beta NF, and SLE), lax control
    ***maybe this explains ******'s coprophilia***

    Phallic stage -> Gamma Quadra
    Excessive same-sex competition leading to jealousy, ambitiousness, vanity, and seductiveness (gamma SF, and LIE)
    Passivity in same-sex competition leading to insecurity, submissiveness, and low self esteem (gamma NT, and ESI)

    Latency stage -> Delta Quadra
    Quadra completion
    Sexual energy channeled towards hobbies, and non-sexual interests (Delta focus on exploration and self actualization)

    Note: I'm just inferring the connections between those theories, and I am not commenting on the accuracy of Freud's psychosexual stages. I do indeed doubt his theory due to the fact that I have yet to observe any of the psychosexual stages in real life. I also do not think that people are "molded" into different types, and I do believe that type is inborn (mostly due to VI). However, Freud may simply have noticed patterns in human personality, and decided to categorize them into psychosexual stages instead.

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    Yeah I guess, although both are of course 'negative' I'd rather have diarrhea than constipation. At least then I know it's coming out of my system, even if it's going to be horrible, offensive and gross. To have some demon inside of me that just slowly festers inside me forever so much that I don't realize that it's there, and so much where I even delude myself that I'm 'good' - seems more fucked up and the greater of the two evils.

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    I haven't really noticed any pattern, but my sample size is very limited.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Surreal View Post
    I think I noticed a pattern between Quadra complexes and psychosexual stages.

    Oral stage -> Alpha Quadra
    Oral passive personality: emphasizes dependency, overeating, and immaturity (alpha NT, and SEI), overindulgence
    Oral aggressive personality: manipulation, and verbal aggression to satisfy personal needs (alpha SF, and ILE), under indulgence

    Anal stage -> Beta Quadra
    Anal retentive: stubbornness, perfectionism, and rigidity (beta ST, and EIE), strict control
    Anal expulsive: carelessness, disorganization, creativity, and emotionality (beta NF, and SLE), lax control
    ***maybe this explains ******'s coprophilia***

    Phallic stage -> Gamma Quadra
    Excessive same-sex competition leading to jealousy, ambitiousness, vanity, and seductiveness (gamma SF, and LIE)
    Passivity in same-sex competition leading to insecurity, submissiveness, and low self esteem (gamma NT, and ESI)

    Latency stage -> Delta Quadra
    Quadra completion
    Sexual energy channeled towards hobbies, and non-sexual interests (Delta focus on exploration and self actualization)

    Note: I'm just inferring the connections between those theories, and I am not commenting on the accuracy of Freud's psychosexual stages. I do indeed doubt his theory due to the fact that I have yet to observe any of the psychosexual stages in real life. I also do not think that people are "molded" into different types, and I do believe that type is inborn (mostly due to VI). However, Freud may simply have noticed patterns in human personality, and decided to categorize them into psychosexual stages instead.
    Going by this, I relate most to Gamma SF based off of IRL patterns. I think I did get phallic on some test. Coprophilia, I don't know any betas who wanna be physically shit on or play with scat, but I have met some beta NFs who liked watersports/beings pissed on. The concept, the dynamic, and the act.


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    I wonder why there's a phallic stage but no vaginal stage. Maybe Freud had issues with the vagina.
    Perhaps latency is code for vagina here.

    Lafayette from True Blood: "I know that every man whether straight, gay, or George motherfucking Bush is TERRIFIED of the pussy."

    No wonder Betas call Deltas pussies.

    Good work OP.

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    e_e Freud is a discredited hack, nobody should take anything he said seriously. He was wrong about so many things its amazing ppl are still educated about his ideas. Psychoanalysis is a pseudoscience, a relic of a bygone era. Several psychoanalysts have attempted to update the theory and practice in the light of current knowledge. However, virtually all attempts to carry out revisions have fallen into the same trap as afflicted Freud: basing theory on clinical experience rather on replicable scientific evidence. Articles describing empirical findings remain a rarity in psychoanalytic journals for a good reason. Its mostly bs.

    Considering this OP's theory is just made-up bullshit as well.

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    @Surreal yes, this is interesting, seem parallel to quadral complex written by Strat. Thanks for the contribution.
    Also this is interesting for ppl who has some interest and knowledge in psychology so don't worry if some attempt to discourage you.

    Edit. The stages of freud are stages from the infancy, normal adults supposedly should overcome those not just physically but psychically, and those who don't could present serious mental issues. For example, serial criminals goften ot stuck in anal or phallic stage, they are unable to channel either rage or sex energy into work or hobbies. In a less dramatic outcome adults could get some fixations, those could correspond somehow to Strat quadral complexes. Though, I think there is possible that ppl have fixations depending on quadra or type, for example a beta or delta with oral fix (eating) besides quadral c.
    Last edited by Tommy; 05-28-2020 at 01:35 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shotgunfingers View Post
    e_e Freud is a discredited hack, nobody should take anything he said seriously. He was wrong about so many things its amazing ppl are still educated about his ideas. Psychoanalysis is a pseudoscience, a relic of a bygone era. Several psychoanalysts have attempted to update the theory and practice in the light of current knowledge. However, virtually all attempts to carry out revisions have fallen into the same trap as afflicted Freud: basing theory on clinical experience rather on replicable scientific evidence. Articles describing empirical findings remain a rarity in psychoanalytic journals for a good reason. Its mostly bs.

    Considering this OP's theory is just made-up bullshit as well.
    I mostly agree on Freud's ideas being 'wtf' or wack, but:
    a) psycho-dynamic theories are the ones who are 'updated Freud' (based on his understanding of psyche's energy and things like defensive mechanism); they are still pretty popular, and in therapy their strength is comparable to that of CBT, despite CBT being obviously more evidence-based (at least at first), see for example https://www.apa.org/pubs/journals/re...mp-65-2-98.pdf
    b) 'crazy' and 'unbased' ideas still may have a grain in truth in them; new paradigms and fields often emerge from those, after - of course - they are 'scientified' - these are the ones to lead, and thus are worthy consideration and playing with, unless really contradictory/refuted over and over again; thus nothing with OP posting their theory, maybe just seeing patterns and links between different (but not so much) concepts
    c) some things may work without having a good theory behind them (yet - this should change with time, our understanding should get better, or at least with good conduct there is a chance it gets better and we should count on that chance)

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    I want to note that I have nothing against OP and the noticed pattern in the above is interesting despite my views on Freud.
    I am sorry if I came across negatively, it isn't my intention to argue with or berate OP.

    *this Fe business is hard*

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    Quote Originally Posted by Surreal View Post
    ***maybe this explains ******'s coprophilia***
    sexual s&m anomalies on behavior level may be linked with Se value. beta and gamma should have such more often
    though beta may lead in some parts. as the lack of compassion of Fi value allows more of pain and discomfort against opponents

    > type is inborn (mostly due to VI)

    by Jung inborn is a predisposition to some type. alike to be righ or left-handed in people
    he also thought that a type can be changed based on his typing. this has an analogy with intentional changing of primary hand. in natural conditions this not happen, but is possibly by a training in the childhood

    from practical point, may be supposed that a type is life stable after early age when a type can be seen - ~2 yo when people start to talk. such should be the very majority of cases when types do not change, at least

    Also may be supposed that functions may change the strenght and that type's accentuation may be changed. it's possible temporaly concentrate the attention on info related to any function. in trance states ego functions may loose the common conscious focus. it's possibly to train skills and this may develop general processes related to functions to some degree.
    The type is what function dominates, but the degree of this may be flexible. Values should be more stable, but it's not clear how more.
    There is too much of hypotheses still. Experiments and practice may give answers.

    P.S. take into account that Freud's ideas, including about stages, is not too scientific theory
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Hello there, just so you know, I don't have any problems with disagreements, since that is basically the point of the discussion. Unless things get really bad, there isn't anything to worry about.

    By the way, since Socionics is itself a pseudoscience lacking in empirical evidence, so I don't really understand the point you guys are making...

    Also, I think I need to make some changes. I feel like the psychosexual fixations do not link up exactly to individual types but rather sets up a certain "environmental fixation" for people of the same Quadra. Think of an ecosystem where different animals have to fill different ecological niches, but those niches do not have to be type dependent (though it can be somewhat correlated). For example, in the beta Quadra, SLE can represent either a high achiever who knows how to play by the rules of the hierarchy, or a delinquent misfit who causes trouble everywhere he goes. But each Beta role corresponds to a role in the Anal stage, where the emphasis is on molding one's internal chaos to fit into the established social order of the external world. However, I do think that certain types are more likely to end up in certain roles. Like in the gamma Quadra, the SEE is more likely to end up as an aggressive gold digger, than a 50 year old virgin who masturbates to hentai in her mom's basement.

    Alpha -> Fixation on themes of nurturance and abandonment
    Beta -> Fixation on themes of social order and chaos
    Gamma -> Fixation on themes of individual sexual competition
    Delta -> Fixation on themes of self-actualization and mediocrity

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    Yes, why?

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    @OP I think you'd be better off tying Freud to enneagram than socionics. Socionics describes information metabolism, not motives/values. Quadra describe preferred interaction style, not motives/values. Deducing values from quadras is flawed, especially for Beta. Too rational, e6, and social instinct centric. Basically describing EIE/LSI. Enneagram + nurture covers that better.

    ex. We just hand wave away how IEI is a huge stretch for "Beta values." And SLE is a huge stretch for anal retentive. Are we really pretending LSE is not the protoype for anal retentive?

    edit: and If you insist on doing it do it this way, Phallic is basically Se/Ni Aggressors/Pseudo-aggressors/Victims if anything. Both Beta and Gamma. And anal is closer to rational / irrational.
    Last edited by inaLim; 05-29-2020 at 03:44 AM. Reason: edit

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    I find such theories difficult to believe. If there were such links or patterns, then people who were sexually neutered wouldn't change their psychosexual approach simply because their types remained constant. Independent variables should be kept separate for proper analysis - especially animalistic factors from cognitive ones.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Interesting pattern observation. Mine matches me. As in if you had written it in list order and hadn't labeled each one I would definitely go for the one which has been labeled as mine.

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    I relate... I have a surreal connection with shit. Also bullshit. <3

    no seriously tho, my ultimate relationship probably does involve pooping around eachother. It's the natural state.

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    @inaLim
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhYOPzcsbGM
    I think this music video has given me an insight on the IEI's social role within the beta Quadra. Since betas like to unite under a common group identity, the IEI can play a more intellectual role within its Quadra. IEIs can focus on diving deeper into the ideological, and archetypical aspects of their Beta identity, while the EIE can focus on presenting it in an emotionally appealing way for other audiences.
    Also, I think you have a point here. The details do not seem to fit completely into the theory, especially regarding LSEs, and SLEs. Now that I think about it, Betas can also exhibit a very "phallic approach" to things, and this stage can definitely belong to both Quadras. However, Betas are generally more focused on winning the social game, while gammas are more individualistic in their approach to success. These two concepts can definitely overlap, but I'm focusing more on intentions than real life achievements.

    EDIT:
    Compare with the LSI/EIE version
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RLLOEzdxsM
    Also, please note that not everyone is going to fit into their Quadra, since people's values tends to coincide with the dominant social norms of their society (this is especially true for central types who like power and prestige).

    ***Now that I think about it, I don't quite understand the Delta Quadra at all. I don't think I have any knowledge in regards to them, because I haven't reached the age where Delta values are predominant (neither have I analyzed them too closely) If someone can post some theories about Deltas, that would be appreciated.
    Last edited by Surreal; 06-03-2020 at 04:32 AM.

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    @Rebelondeck I don't think I have a very good understanding in regards to the terminology you are using. Can you explain things in a different way? Thanks.

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    @Adam Strange
    Speaking about the romance styles, I think they generally compliment the psychosexual stages pretty well. I think gamma victims tends to have a self-defeating, and uncertain attitude regarding intimate relationships (LIE can appear somewhat like an aggressor on the outside, but they also exhibit this same insecurity), and gamma aggressors play into this theme by messing with relationship boundaries, and forcing the victim to comply. By doing this, they may end up bonding with each other later on due to the shared experiences. This relates well to the ambiguity between parent and child relationships during the Oedipal/Electra stages.
    Beta victims, on the other hand, uses their chaotic nature to captivate their duals into pursuing the role of the discipliner.
    Last edited by Surreal; 06-03-2020 at 04:14 AM.

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    Latency stage -> Delta Quadra
    Quadra completion
    Sexual energy channeled towards hobbies, and non-sexual interests (Delta focus on exploration and self actualization)
    Bias much?

    Rest ist also nonsense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Surreal View Post
    @Rebelondeck I don't think I have a very good understanding in regards to the terminology you are using. Can you explain things in a different way? Thanks.
    I don't agree with linking these so-called complexes to specific quadras so any pattern with them is equally questionable. Various Socionics theorists don't seem to separate the independent variables in their analyses: cognitive functioning from sexual/animalistic drives from various environmental/cultural backgrounds. This is why there is so much disagreement on their models, which are nothing more than attempted extensions to classification systems formulated from very limited, localized, unscientific testing. Although my knowledge of control system modelling is somewhat dated, I'm certainly not back in the early 20th century where Socionics seems to be. However the clues are indeed there in the observations to develop a valid information control system model.

    a.k.a. I/O
    Last edited by Rebelondeck; 06-03-2020 at 12:11 PM.

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    All introverted rational IME's are anal retentive. All irrational introverted elements are anal expulsive. All extroverted rational elements are oral . All extroverted irrational elemts are latent or phallic.

    Amen and praise the Freud.
    Measuring you right now

    Winning is for losers

     

    Sincerely yours,
    idiosyncratic type

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