Took me a whopping 10 seconds to conclude LSI
I just saw Aramas has you as delta J. I'm torn now because I usually find common ground with him on vi. I'll look more in depth tomorrow when I've slept more than a few hours the night before
Last edited by kingslayer; 05-27-2020 at 04:24 AM.
Honestly I do not care about your subjective experiences. I’ve heard it all from you already. You’ve already said that you are negatively disposed to me, so please stop quoting me because all of your so-called logical replies are gonna be tainted by that. I don’t really care if you want to autistically comment on what I say for your own amusement, but at least remove my post tag so it doesn’t ping me, or I’m just gonna block you.
I'm concrete and focus on the present, often hyperfocused on details that others seem to overlook or ignore. I don't think much of future problems or possibilities, which is a weakness I'm acutely aware of, but have a hard time bringing myself into thinking in that way, it just feels too "fluffy". I live very much in the here and now, without thinking through the consequences of my often impulsive acts.
I have a good sense of how my body is doing, feeling immediately what it needs or what is off. I'm just comfortable in the physical world, more than the abstract. I enjoy exerting force and seeing things happen in the real world as an immediate consequence, lifting heavy weights is satisfying. I'm also good at precisely dosing the force I apply, which is useful when dealing with small delicate components for example.
When confronted with a problem, the natural go-to reaction is to physically interact with it and force it to solve itself.
The hair just naturally grows that stiff and coarse, that's why I need a haircut again to not look like a q-tip. They called it hemp rope in the military when shaving it.
If I see a problem, I don't pause to think much about it but just immediately get hands-on with it. Like if I see something wrong, broken or out of place in my opinion, I go ahead and make it the way I like without thinking whether others have an opinion about it. If I see someone doing something wrong, I watch them for a bit but if they keep struggling, then I'll just jump in and do the job myself for them. Like someone writing too slowly or making a lot of mistakes, I might get in, grab the keyboard and write it correctly. Or if they can't figure out how to do something, I'll just walk behind the counter to look at their screen and point it out for them. These are examples from work or customer service experiences. I'm very persistent in getting things done quickly and the way I want them to, pushing people to do it in a friendly but firm manner.
One real-life example:
I found out a suspension noise issue in the car I had recently bought, rattling/clunking over potholes at low speed and low temperatures, caused by air suspension bladder movement inside the suspension strut. I wanted the car dealer to pay for new ones (as according to our consumer protection law) and took the car to a service center. They didn't have suitably bad roads in the vicinity so they couldn't reproduce the noise, and thus according to company policy they could not recommend a replacement. I then told the tech firmly that I know what the problem is (the air suspension struts) and that he should just write in the work order "These parts are to be replaced" without any further discussion on whether the issue was noticed by the tech or not. He did it, seemingly happy that I told him exactly what to do and write on the report.
The next issue after that was to bill the car dealer directly (again due to incredibly rigid Tesla policies), they would only accept credit card on premises and would not send invoices. I didn't want to whip out my own card and deal with the hassle of getting the dealer to pay for it later. So I approached the customer service rep in a friendly but firm manner: "I understand this is your policy and you're bound by it, but let me help you do your job (implying: to serve me)". She then fetched the workshop manager to help her. I asked the manager for his work phone, used it to call the car dealer and handed the phone back, telling him to talk to the car dealer to sort this payment issue out. They did, and everybody was happy.
This is difficult to convey in writing, but in all these cases I don't see acting in a "Te" manner, rather in every interaction I try to be friendly and "sugar-coat" the request instead of bluntly bossing people. I find that people are much more likely to do as you want if you act like you're on their side, agreeing that their policies are stupid but understanding that they're just cogs in the machine that don't want to get in trouble. Being kind of conspiratorial but still very firm, not even expecting a refusal. Then if this approach completely fails, I'll get blunt and hostile. Like in another case where they said they would refuse to release my car without doing a software calibration (liability issues, but nothing I cared about personally) first but that it might fail and take days to resolve. Then I told the guy that it's my car and I'm taking it now whether he likes it or not. In that case they solved the software issue quickly and there was no need for conflict - we parted in friendly terms, with me thanking him for a job well done (as it truly was). But I don't take no for an answer.
Dude. That is 4D Te. Te is business logic. 4D Te communication style is business-like. Businesslike doesn’t have to mean bossy actually. And being able to sugar coat things naturally implies at least 2D Fe, you know that right?
Sorry but I can’t believe you own a Tesla but you don’t get the concept of dimensionality of Te. This is too retarded for me. No more questions.
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
Huh, I'm not disputing that it may be the use of Te. I said "not Te manner" because I've observed Te leads being immediately blunt with their demands. I do the Fe sugarcoating because I enjoy a positive exchange and believe that people are more likely to do what you want if the mood is right. I don't care about making them my friends though and feel icky if they start acting like that.
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
What the fuck are you talking about? If you can't stay reasonable and keep your personal issues out of a plain logical argument, then sure feel free to block me. At least while you are menstruating. Tho' maybe you are menstruating permanently. I don't have time nor the interest to engage with that. See ya
Would you elaborate on what you see as Se in people?
Pretty sure he's not like any LII lol
Very relatable.
I'm friendly too at first tho' when doing business, I don't try to play "conspirational" like that, unless maybe the other party seems really like inviting that kind of approach. But they would have to make things personal enough for me first, for me to do that.One real-life example:
I found out a suspension noise issue in the car I had recently bought, rattling/clunking over potholes at low speed and low temperatures, caused by air suspension bladder movement inside the suspension strut. I wanted the car dealer to pay for new ones (as according to our consumer protection law) and took the car to a service center. They didn't have suitably bad roads in the vicinity so they couldn't reproduce the noise, and thus according to company policy they could not recommend a replacement. I then told the tech firmly that I know what the problem is (the air suspension struts) and that he should just write in the work order "These parts are to be replaced" without any further discussion on whether the issue was noticed by the tech or not. He did it, seemingly happy that I told him exactly what to do and write on the report.
This is difficult to convey in writing, but in all these cases I don't see acting in a "Te" manner, rather in every interaction I try to be friendly and "sugar-coat" the request instead of bluntly bossing people. I find that people are much more likely to do as you want if you act like you're on their side, agreeing that their policies are stupid but understanding that they're just cogs in the machine that don't want to get in trouble. Being kind of conspiratorial but still very firm, not even expecting a refusal. Then if this approach completely fails, I'll get blunt and hostile. Like in another case where they said they would refuse to release my car without doing a software calibration (liability issues, but nothing I cared about personally) first but that it might fail and take days to resolve. Then I told the guy that it's my car and I'm taking it now whether he likes it or not. In that case they solved the software issue quickly and there was no need for conflict - we parted in friendly terms, with me thanking him for a job well done (as it truly was). But I don't take no for an answer.
I think you're a delta ST 8w9.
This is how wrong you are:
And multiple IEIs chimed in in agreement with him/her in this recent thread: https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...0389-Thoughts?
If that is not enough for you, look at more comments on the subject here: https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...ad.php?t=60149
It’s basically more normal than not to be more into your HA than your dual-seeking. This is also what causes people to misidentify themselves as being leading types of their own HA too.
Maybe you’ll find this relevant too @Northstar .
My experience as well that sharing the judging functions is way more important for compatibility than sharing the perceiving functions.
IME, xEI often seem to latch on the Ti consciously, being more unaware of the need for Se or Ne.
I would explain the background why I chose to do it this way, and that there may have been other options but I just chose the one that suited me and the situation best. It would not irritate me unless the question was posed in a challenging manner. I know there are often multiple ways to solve a problem but I find further discussion uninteresting as soon as a satisfactory method is found.
Optimization of the way of working is a completely uninteresting topic for me, I just want results and an inefficient brute force method is fine if it doesn’t take longer than coming up with a time-saving tool. Even if said tool would be useful in the future. It’s like my brain actively resists thinking about a time-saving script, tool or whatever for smaller tasks if you can just get on and start doing it instead of thinking. It’s just more satisfying to see and feel things happening than to think.
wow compared to me you are MUCH less animated and very monotonous.
My initial reaction was that you are Finnish, then I saw the German T-shirt and thought <_< ohh der muss Deutsch sein.
ISTx ist sicher, zu mindest meine Menung nach..
Last edited by SGF; 05-28-2020 at 09:59 AM.
Yeah, I've gathered the same from your posting style which is very informal and bursting with emoticons. I could see why you were thinking IEE, but the issues you're writing about look like Fe PoLR to me. Is the animated behavior something you've adopted to try to make yourself better understood or was it always this way?
I involuntarily copy behavior from other people I find interesting. I used to have a girlfriend who is very animated and some of it rubbed off on me over the years, which means on some level I was like that as well just didn't know it. I seem to be quite unaware and confused about how others perceive me tbh.
Anyway, this is your thread. In the vid you are kinda like LSI-Ti subtype description, minus the arrogant part, you seem kinda friendly.
Appearance
The logical subtype is self-assured, calm, restrained, correct and impenetrable. At times he may seem arrogant. Sufficiently kind, imperturbable, and unemotional. Very polite and attentive to details in conversation, likes to specify and clarify everything, but sometimes becomes too focused on details that are nonessential to others. Unhurried, perhaps even slow. Likes receiving exhaustively comprehensive and thorough information to his inquiries. Dislikes ambiguity. Internally, he is quite collected. Never loses his spirit and sense of perseverance. Tries to encourage those who are in need of support. Has a direct, motionless gaze that seems to look right through and not at his conversation partner. His movements are measured but constrained; there is a tendency to shuffle his feet against the floor when walking. When he turns, he does so with his entire body such that it sometimes seems like his neck is fixed to his shoulders; doesn't like to turn his head.
Yes, I could see that fitting these videos. The shuffling feet against the floor is not me though, lol. I hate when people do that and want to tell them to lift their goddamn feet properly when walking. Otherwise it's not a bad description.
Where the -Ti subtype desc falls apart though is the "Character" description, it fits me poorly. One of my best friends is of that type though, and I can see the similarities but also major differences. I don't respect chains of command, hate regulations and am lazy about keeping records. I can't wait patiently for an outcome without constantly getting informed about the progress. He's also more comfortable with solitude than I am, I enjoy interacting with people much more.
From the start you didn't seem to me like a "lawful stupid" individual, I never got that vibe despite that being the LSI description. You seem zen by comparison. I work with someone, she is kinda very anal about rules, laws and regulations. Even she is more animated than you .. but damn man, people avoid her because they fear this woman. First time I saw grown men who do heavy lifting and work with steel cower before a petite woman. I think she is Ti-Se, but you guys are nothing alike.
Yes, that's pretty typical SLI to me. One of my best friends is SLI and he's exactly like that. We both have cars as a hobby but we approach it completely differently. I always buy the most powerful and flashiest car I can afford and then tune it, until I can get an even better on to start with. He takes something that is pretty unassuming to start with but then keeps working on it and polishing all the little details for years to make it really special and to leave his own mark on it. He enjoys crafting things and making individual solutions with his own hands and disdains buying ready-made things. Whereas I only care about results and don't care about individuality or crafting things. I just buy the best thing available if I can afford it. The crafting part isn't interesting to me in that sense. He's had the same hobby car for 10 years, I've changed cars probably as many times during that time.
One other difference to SLI that I've observed is that they often enjoy cooking for other people, being proud of their culinary skills. I couldn't care less about that and could probably eat McDonalds Quarter Pounders every day if I had to and if it wasn't unhealthy (which I'm well aware of).
I can't see the Se. Is it just me or do you guys not see the Se in Northstar either?
If OP has creative Se... it doesen't come across in the video at all.
What's Se to you, how do you think it would manifest in the context of these videos? I could of course have talked about what I actually do daily instead of the technical background. Such as making decisions and choices, tasking people with things to do and making sure they get done to move the project forward. The goal of the videos was however the Ti/Fe expressiveness thing and not the other functions.
In as far as that goal is concerned imo it was sucessful. Fi role and Fe suggestive seems to fit considering you don't know any of us and consequently are more restrained than with peole you actually know and are comfortable with.
From the videos however I can't get a sense of your Se. I have a hard time imagining you taking on an organizational role, putting people to work and making sure they do their job for example, being forceful and applying pressure on people if need be. (this is something I don't like doing for example)
Okay, the problem lies with your imagination then, since that's what I actually do daily and get paid for. I don't posture needlessly like a kid that has something to prove, that is ridiculous and you're probably looking for a caricature. I'm an adult (38) that knows how to be civil and friendly, especially as that is our culture. I just increase the forcefulness gradually as necessary.
I enjoy and have naturally taken informal or formal leadership roles of small groups, from military service to every real job I've had. Being CEO doesn't interest me that much, but I like having a small team of competent people who I direct. I believe in the "speak softly but carry a big stick" ideology, preferring a diplomatic approach first but following up with force if it doesn't work. This surprises people sometimes since I'm deceptively nice at first but that is only on the surface.
He’s sitting and talking. Do you think Se leads are incapable of doing that? Like do they have to be punching people and flexing every second to be Se egos or something?
Do you think applying pressure on people means punching and yelling at them until they get into single file lineups? Lol
Do Si egos need to be masturbating and twiddling their nipples to ASMR videos every second?
Also, I constructive’d your prior post accidentally.
Alright, now we are getting somewhere. Look, I get payed to do plenty of things I don't enjoy doing. For me what you do for a living does not necesserily mean its in line with your personality. If it were for me I would probably never allow anyone to determine how and what I have to do regarding anything period. I hate giving orders and respond with hostility to pressure, orders or any need to obey rules i deem as irrelevant.
In terms of temperamnt from the video alone EP and EJ are out of the question. IJ and IP likely. Feeling elements aren't very good, which means Super-ego/id range at best. That narrows it down to logical introvert. From the video alone its clear you aren't intuitive, intuitives display associative thinking, you don't. We'll throw ILI and LII out the window now.
Down to SLI vs LSI. Considering what you wrote joust now, but more specifically how you responded to my posts I think LSI is clear. SLI wouldn't enjoy being in charge due to Se demonstrative. The fact that you enjoy your work and can actually be assertive (it comes through in how you responded) is proof enough for me.