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Thread: Concept of democracy in Gamma vs leadership

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    Default Concept of democracy in Gamma vs leadership

    Here my question points towards not only the difference in the meaning of democracy between the Gamma and Alpha quadras, but also the raw definition of democracy and leadership and how they can be combined in Socionics. That is why I am posting this question under the Gamma quadra subject.

    FM-2030, the futurist, had mentioned in his UCLA class on the subject "the next 20 years" that if one truly is a futurist, they should not vote for elections which involve voting for a leader. Referendums do not belong to these types of elections.

    He says: "Feudal industrial democracy was predicated on representation and leadership, leadership being essentially a very primitive, frankly not even industrial-age system, a very primitive concept in the construct of interpersonal relations, one person leads and the other person follows; in other words, it presumes that one person has a concentration of information or wealth or power and the other person is really reduced to a more subservient position; the concept of leadership is intrinsically undemocratic, because it presumes as I say, it presumes an imbalance in power and an imbalance in information and all. In the Telesphere world or the post-industrial world information flows horizontally, everybody has access to information all you have to do is to pick up your receiver or press a button or turn on your this or turn on your that, you have he same access to information as these other individuals, there is a decentralization and despecialization in information. What we want is to move towards electronic democracy or teledemocracy where individuals vote for not other individuals, not for leaders, not for representatives but on issues. Here at the very beginning of the telesphere age we see a painfully gradual shift from representative and parliamentary democracy to teledemocracy where we vote directly on issues."

    Now, FM-2030 himself was an extremely individualistic intellectual. As a person supposedly belonging to the Gamma quadra, I have found almost all of his ideas making sense to me personally. Even the reason for his official name change from Fereydoun Esfandiary to FM-2030 was because he believed names impose a collectivist identity in terms of ethnicity, gender and cultural heritage on individuals and this will not be the case in the near future. He considered this type of name giving to belong to primitive and tribal times.

    According to the above mentioned definition of leadership, a quadra which consists of types SEE and LIE as extroverts, which both have leadership qualities and tendencies, how can the Gamma quadra be considered democratic?

    In the description of LIE is written "He sometimes has a hero complex with a strong tendency to defend all those he sees weaker than himself"

    This is absolutely true.

    The artworks and cartoons made about SEEs always show them with a crown.
    19f1dc53e0b4056bdba81eea191cef97--napoleon-psychology.jpg

    How can this, in your opinion, have been considered democratic in Socionics, to be a leader?

  2. #2
    Adam Strange's Avatar
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    @Zero, I think the problem lies in the definition of terms.


    My explanation is fairly long and I’m pressed for time, so the above is a bookmark that I can find and return to when I have more time. Sorry to be a jerk.

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    Uncle Ave's Avatar
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    Leadership doesn't mean domination or hierarchy, people can look up to someone as a leader because that person inspires them and/or teaches based on experience and knoweldge. Note that knoweldge isn't the same thing as information: nowadays everyone has access to information, which is a good thing, but people often think that just having access to information over the internet makes you qualified to do a job, or to understand life. Knowledge on the other hand comes with experience, so you can't become knowledgeable simply by reading books.


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    Uncle Ave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    H
    Now, FM-2030 himself was an extremely individualistic intellectual. As a person supposedly belonging to the Gamma quadra, I have found almost all of his ideas making sense to me personally. Even the reason for his official name change from Fereydoun Esfandiary to FM-2030 was because he believed names impose a collectivist identity in terms of ethnicity, gender and cultural heritage on individuals and this will not be the case in the near future. He considered this type of name giving to belong to primitive and tribal times.
    Just looked him up. He seems very interesting.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    @Zero, I think the problem lies in the definition of terms.


    My explanation is fairly long and I’m pressed for time, so the above is a bookmark that I can find and return to when I have more time. Sorry to be a jerk.
    You're far from being a jerk, trust me

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ave View Post
    Just looked him up. He seems very interesting.
    There is a movie about him which recently came out in 2020, http://www.2030thefilm.com/
    I've been looking for a torrent version but haven't found yet so haven't watched myself but it must be interesting

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