SLI or IEE.. help mee

[SGF]

How do I tell if I'm SLI or IEE ? I don't have a problem with reading people's intentions, body language, emotions or the emotional atmosphere, in fact I'm really good at this.. but I absolutely suck at emotional expression, influencing other people or the emotional atmosphere and I always feel like an alien/outsider who is incapable of feeling one with the group and is blind to social convention. the latter used to be a source of social anxiety and is my biggest weak-spot. I'm incapable of not being eccentric / odd. I tried.. nothing works, people always take note of this. Frustrating. I'm neurotypical tho, 0 autism.

Otherwise I'm a phlegmatic sunburn, lazy-ass computer-nerd who likes taking machines and systems apart for fun. I have no interest in creating my own systems and theory usually bores me unless I can use it towards some pragmatic end, but I almost never have problems understanding even complicated abstract stuff like transcendental idealism. I'm a very careful and deliberate person, who takes in a lot of information before making decisions. Risk averse, tendency towards procrastination.

Comfort, good food, lighting, comfy home and even aesthetics are very important to me. If I could transform my home into the fey-wilds I would. Come to think of it I should.

Help me plz ?

[Northstar]

Do you have a natural understanding of your physical state and how your body functions? Can you create comfort and reduce discomfort easily or would you like someone else to do it for you?

[SGF]

Do you have a natural understanding of your physical state and how your body functions? Can you create comfort and reduce discomfort easily or would you like someone else to do it for you?

Hmm, I like to think so at least. I'm a confident / good cook for example and enjoy preparing food, definitely more so than talking with ppl.
In terms of internal body functions I tend to be aware yeah, and unlike some other ppl I know, I get health related stuff sorted asap, for me or them. Sometimes I don't get how ppl can just sit with their pain fearing to find out wtf is wrong with them, but this happens and its annoying to convince them to have it sorted.
Normally I'm disorganized, but if it gets too bad it has a negative affect on my mental, so I clean up and like having my environment in a state that influences me in a positive way.

The reason I'm uncertain of SLI or IEE tbh is that I can read other people with ease. For example when a LSI interacts with other people, on my end it looks like / experience it as a train wreck in the making. Normally SLI shouldn't be able to pick up on this.

[Northstar]

Sounds more like SLI so far. IEE in general don't have a good awareness of their bodily functions and aren't very confident cooks, but appreciate someone taking care of that stuff for them. IEE also have higher energy levels and always something that interests them. SLI can seem lazy, bored and procrastinating in comparison, but much more effective when actually decided on getting something practical done.

If by reading people you mean reading body language, I think all ST types are good at that. You can be pretty good at reading people you can see, but have trouble with a more intuitive understanding through written text for example. I do think both SLI and LSI can pick up on how interactions they can see look like. Guessing at the underlying motivations for the behavior you can see is a whole different thing.

[SGF]

Sounds more like SLI so far. IEE in general don't have a good awareness of their bodily functions and aren't very confident cooks, but appreciate someone taking care of that stuff for them. IEE also have higher energy levels and always something that interests them. SLI can seem lazy, bored and procrastinating in comparison, but much more effective when actually decided on getting something practical done.

If by reading people you mean reading body language, I think all ST types are good at that. You can be pretty good at reading people you can see, but have trouble with a more intuitive understanding through written text for example. I do think both SLI and LSI can pick up on how interactions they can see look like. Guessing at the underlying motivations for the behavior you can see is a whole different thing.

hmm, yeah. That makes sense, plus I doubt a IEE would be the careful overthinking phlegmatic type. Its probably related to reading body language. I'll test it. Thx!

[SGF]

What makes you think you are either IEE or SLI? If you hesitate between such opposite types, it's probable you are neither.



IEE doesn't suck at emotional expression and SLI sucks but doesn't care/know. SFs are the best at "influencing other people" so if you have a inferiority complex about that, you're probably a NT. Emotional expression and influencing the emotional atmosphere is Fe. If you're so fixated on being bad at this, means it's a valued weak function.



Valued Ti and Si. Moreover, the fact that I understand the flow of your thoughts so easily means you're probably having the same cognitive style as me(Holographic). Pretty sure you're LII-Ti. Here you go.

I don't really value Ti tbh. I can understand abstract systems sure, but if I can't make use of the information there is no point in deepening my understanding of it as I'll forget anyway, so it usually stays on a superficial level of "stuff I was curious about". Use it or lose it. I'm also very prone to reductionist thinking (which annoys NTs in my experience) and prefer to keep things simple. The less nodes in a system the lower the chance of failure and the more efficient it is. I'm not someone who can survive in a university environment & deal with abstractions all day. I do test INTP under MBTI, but those tests are garbage anyway.

It sucks being bad at it, yeah, but I also have no real desire to be good at Fe myself. I'm rather inhibited when it comes to expressing my feelings or even talking about this stuff with another person.

[MathHysteriaOfSoul]

How do I tell if I'm SLI or IEE ? I don't have a problem with reading people's intentions, body language, emotions or the emotional atmosphere, in fact I'm really good at this.. but I absolutely suck at emotional expression, influencing other people or the emotional atmosphere and I always feel like an alien/outsider who is incapable of feeling one with the group and is blind to social convention. the latter used to be a source of social anxiety and is my biggest weak-spot. I'm incapable of not being eccentric / odd. I tried.. nothing works, people always take note of this. Frustrating. I'm neurotypical tho, 0 autism.

Otherwise I'm a phlegmatic sunburn, lazy-ass computer-nerd who likes taking machines and systems apart for fun. I have no interest in creating my own systems and theory usually bores me unless I can use it towards some pragmatic end, but I almost never have problems understanding even complicated abstract stuff like transcendental idealism. I'm a very careful and deliberate person, who takes in a lot of information before making decisions. Risk averse, tendency towards procrastination.

Comfort, good food, lighting, comfy home and even aesthetics are very important to me. If I could transform my home into the fey-wilds I would. Come to think of it I should.

Help me plz ?

sounds closer to SEI than SLI IMO.

[thegreenfaerie]

I don't really value Ti tbh. I can understand abstract systems sure, but if I can't make use of the information there is no point in deepening my understanding of it as I'll forget anyway, so it usually stays on a superficial level of "stuff I was curious about". Use it or lose it. I'm also very prone to reductionist thinking (which annoys NTs in my experience) and prefer to keep things simple. The less nodes in a system the lower the chance of failure and the more efficient it is. I'm not someone who can survive in a university environment & deal with abstractions all day. I do test INTP under MBTI, but those tests are garbage anyway.

It sucks being bad at it, yeah, but I also have no real desire to be good at Fe myself. I'm rather inhibited when it comes to expressing my feelings or even talking about this stuff with another person.

Dang, I almost had your back until you said, “I do score INTP on MBTI tests” Some of what you described sounds like Ne, but I am not sure if valuing or ego block. Have you asked others how they view you in terms of Fe? At first I was confused by having 4D Fe, but now it’s pretty crystal clear. I can very much influence the emotional atmosphere and I show a lot of expression even when I’m not intentionally setting out to do so. It kind of just, flows out of me. I’ve talked a lot of shit about Fe because I don’t value it, but it’s pretty clear to me now that I do have it in strong dimensionality and can use it pretty well. I’ve just continued talking to others and getting clarification and eventually it’s started to make sense. I am also pretty aware of the emotional atmosphere in a situation. As a side note, Ldk also initially typed me LII. I’m not sure if he still does. I’ve also been typed SLI. I’m not a bouncy sort of IEE, we do exist. Your initial post sounds more SLI than IEE though.

[SGF]

sounds closer to SEI than SLI IMO.

Arguments to support the claim? SEI has 3D Fe, which kinda sounds like me, minus the soft spoken pozitive stuff. The problem here tho is demonstrative Fi. I'm inclined to making harsh moral judgments and manifesting "righteus rage" (but its just rage) where sadly I uncaracteristically fly off the handle and need to leave before it turns to physical violence. As an example I'm on non speaking terms with my granmother, whom I consider unfit to be called a human being, considering what she did to my parents.. in as far as my relationship with her goes I told this to her face, huge fight, which she conveniently pretended to forget a week later (what kind of person does that?). I can never really forgive her, I don't understand how my mother continues to swallow her abuse (likely psychological damage), I would have left my grandmother to rot alone, in fact I did. From my perspective it isn't healthy keeping ppl around who abuse one's trust, manifest cronic lying, are emotionally ebusive, blackmail and manipulate or cheat and so on. A 'fuck off!" is the sane choice. I hate conflict tho, mostly because if it gets bad I find it hard to control my anger and words will fail me. I also dislike negatively charged emotional atmosphe, I had to deal with this shit all my childhood.. I prefer to just calmly settle differences through discussing them like adults. Ofc with some ppl thats just not possible, people like my grandmother who twist my words. With people like that talking is a pointless waste of time and effort.

Being ennegram 6 ofc doesen't help with this.. It can get ugly if I feel cornered (reactive fight or flight). I have very minimal tolerance for the shitty behaviour of other people. All this doesen't sound like 4D demonstrative Fi.

Dang, I almost had your back until you said, “I do score INTP on MBTI tests” Some of what you described sounds like Ne, but I am not sure if valuing or ego block. Have you asked others how they view you in terms of Fe? At first I was confused by having 4D Fe, but now it’s pretty crystal clear. I can very much influence the emotional atmosphere and I show a lot of expression even when I’m not intentionally setting out to do so. It kind of just, flows out of me. I’ve talked a lot of shit about Fe because I don’t value it, but it’s pretty clear to me now that I do have it in strong dimensionality and can use it pretty well. I’ve just continued talking to others and getting clarification and eventually it’s started to make sense. I am also pretty aware of the emotional atmosphere in a situation. As a side note, Ldk also initially typed me LII. I’m not sure if he still does. I’ve also been typed SLI. I’m not a bouncy sort of IEE, we do exist. Your initial post sounds more SLI than IEE though.

Can you give some example how your demonstrative Fe manifests itself? Creative Fe kinda sounds like me minus some stuff (bolded what I relate to):

SEIs are often highly attuned to the emotional environment immediately surrounding them. They are skilled at loosening up the atmosphere and often seek to actively contribute to the overall sense of group harmony and familiarity. SEIs often feel uncomfortable in circumstances in which the group atmosphere is overly hostile or virulent; in such situations, they may seek to play the role of peacemaker in order to restore the mood to a sense of joviality or calmness.SEIs may expect individuals around them to behave according to the predominant emotional affect in a given environment. They tend to enjoy crafting an open, conflict-free, and relaxed environment where individuals are able to express themselves freely, but they may feel confused and deflated if somebody espouses viewpoints contrary to the predominant mood.Many SEIs are shy, sensitive, and reserved. They may develop a mild, friendly, and soft-spoken demeanor, as they can frequently be overly concerned that they have offended others with their actions. They can be inclined to a somewhat avoidant, withdrawn, and socially reserved lifestyle. Rather than forge strong emotional connections with others, some SEIs may be inclined to interact spontaneously (and often reservedly) with others according to the immediate emotional ambience of a situation.SEIs tend to spend a lot of energy concerning themselves with social acceptance and interpersonal dynamics.

[thegreenfaerie]

IEE can be very aesthetic-oriented and create pleasant atmospheres. They are Si-seeking and so should enjoy topics around those conversations, but yes they will likely struggle to some level and possibly require assistance in certain Si domains (caretaking, health, etc.). That's how I am at least. IEE are creative Ne doms with Si seeking who can create unique and beautiful environments. Maybe it depends on subtype how much they are capable of this, if you believe in that. Of course, Sol fancies me a SEI, but I don't value Fe and I am not Si first, nor a caretaker. I don't much fit Fe creative, which is part of why I also said goodbye to IEI. Maybe I'm missing something though. I don't seem like any other SEI that I know other than interest in Si and being nice more times than not as far as I can tell. Beauty orientation and aesthetics is far from an automatic SEI typing lol. I like that you brought up enneagram too because that could play a part in how your typing differs from others of the same typing for you. I know there are a lot of IEE 6's out there, I'm not sure about SLI.

Someone in chatbox told me to narrow down my PoLr to a letter and then reduce it from there, and I found this helpful, and I agree that my letter is T. I don't know if that helps you at all, but it does sound like you don't see yourself much as Fe PoLr, yet you're saying you relate to Fe creative... which do you value and consciously use more, Fi or Fe?

For me, Fe demonstrative can be seen in the following ways- Being very emotionally expressive physically and verbally (unless I'm uncomfortable), having the ability to affect the emotional atmosphere around me without really trying to at all, being kind of, fluid and shifting (I guess this is may be just irrational though) in my temperament, style and the like, I guess maybe my silliness and goofiness could be related to it too, or just Ne, or the combination. Like you said, I also feel like I can read the emotional atmosphere pretty well, though it's not an area of focus. Maybe a SLI will chime in because I have no idea how they vary in their Fe PoLr in terms of this and I would like to know as well. Something I relate to in Gulenko's IEE-Ne description is that I sort of alternate between a state of melancholy and being excited lol. A lot of people relate IEE to what is actually ESE as well.

The whole thing about taking apart computers being your main interest did seem like more of a T in your ego block to me, but that may the same as someone else saying IEE's aren't into aesthetics SLI also has 4D Ti as I'm sure you know which could be why maybe someone else might see you as a type like LII or perhaps even why you score INTP on MBTI tests... maybe...

[Rusal]

It'd be better if we stopped associating to cooking so much. It's going to confuse people. There could be a relation, I guess, but other ways I believe Si manifests with me:

-I'll create an atmosphere with lights and music for guests or alike. An ambiance. Even when I'm not expecting anyone, in my mind I'm selecting types of music for occasions. Presentation and mood.
- I'll take a trip somewhere and mark all the cool places in my mind so that I can revist them with other people and show this special, one-of-a-kind spot I discovered to them.
- Changing into comfy clothes when I get home is akin to mind transition.
- I like to introduce people to 'worthy' items of consideration: music, books, films, places.
- A certain light plus a special breeze with the right angle can completely change the emotional charge of scenery (Si+Fe)
- Daydreams can be a fabricated scene that can be modified, as if I'm constructing a scene in a film or a stanza in a poem. The daydream is that I'm outside of it. Again, mood and presentation.

Not liking to cook or being a bad cook does not mean you're not a Si ego.

[SGF]

IEE can be very aesthetic-oriented and create pleasant atmospheres. They are Si-seeking and so should enjoy topics around those conversations, but yes they will likely struggle to some level and possibly require assistance in certain Si domains (caretaking, health, etc.). That's how I am at least. IEE are creative Ne doms with Si seeking who can create unique and beautiful environments. Maybe it depends on subtype how much they are capable of this, if you believe in that. Of course, Sol fancies me a SEI, but I don't value Fe and I am not Si first, nor a caretaker. I don't much fit Fe creative, which is part of why I also said goodbye to IEI. Maybe I'm missing something though. I don't seem like any other SEI that I know other than interest in Si and being nice more times than not as far as I can tell. Beauty orientation and aesthetics is far from an automatic SEI typing lol. I like that you brought up enneagram too because that could play a part in how your typing differs from others of the same typing for you. I know there are a lot of IEE 6's out there, I'm not sure about SLI.

Someone in chatbox told me to narrow down my PoLr to a letter and then reduce it from there, and I found this helpful, and I agree that my letter is T. I don't know if that helps you at all, but it does sound like you don't see yourself much as Fe PoLr, yet you're saying you relate to Fe creative... which do you value and consciously use more, Fi or Fe?

I think Fi. I Like I said be4, I'm phlegmatic, that comes with being emotionally stable and not varied 90% of the time. Im layed back, friendly, lazy tbh and conserve my energy. In social situations I'm rather stoic or at best friendly and people say I make them feel at ease and have this relaxing influence on them. Its probably why kids and animals like me so much. The exception ofc is when I get angry and go berserk. This is a slow process I will at first boil in my skin as I slowly lose my temper up to the point where I snap... I'll stutter, hands will shake, my pulse will race, face flush with blood, I swear I can feel my skull pop and ears feel like they are on fire. My vision narrow and there is this rush of wanting to crush stuff. When words fail me I can get physically violent out of the blue and break things (rare). <== kinda the range of my expressiveness. I basically haven't cried in a decade, I rarely if ever experience or show high positive feelings and I'm not emotionally expressive otherwise or affectionate with people, especially not physically affectionate unless I'm in love.

For me, Fe demonstrative can be seen in the following ways- Being very emotionally expressive physically and verbally (unless I'm uncomfortable), having the ability to affect the emotional atmosphere around me without really trying to at all, being kind of, fluid and shifting (I guess this is may be just irrational though) in my temperament, style and the like, I guess maybe my silliness and goofiness could be related to it too, or just Ne, or the combination. Like you said, I also feel like I can read the emotional atmosphere pretty well, though it's not an area of focus. Maybe a SLI will chime in because I have no idea how they vary in their Fe PoLr in terms of this and I would like to know as well. Something I relate to in Gulenko's IEE-Ne description is that I sort of alternate between a state of melancholy and being excited lol. A lot of people relate IEE to what is actually ESE as well.

Hmm, yeah I don't realte to the exited part or being down. Mostly mellow and stable mood here. I may sometimes think I should have expressed more exitement to maybe not upset the person I'm interacting with, if i think its expected, like when i recieve a gift.. but I can't fake it. My mood is kinda very stable middle ground of "meh".

The whole thing about taking apart computers being your main interest did seem like more of a T in your ego block to me, but that may the same as someone else saying IEE's aren't into aesthetics SLI also has 4D Ti as I'm sure you know which could be why maybe someone else might see you as a type like LII or perhaps even why you score INTP on MBTI tests... maybe...

Its not just computers. I have some kind of vierd intuitive grasp of how machines work, plus its fun. I do this with abstract systems as well if they interest me enough. Its rather reductionist tho, meaning I'll break it down into components and reassemble it to see how it works. no instructioon manuals needed.

It'd be better if we stopped associating to cooking so much. It's going to confuse people. There could be a relation, I guess, but other ways I believe Si manifests with me:

-I'll create an atmosphere with lights and music for guests or alike. An ambiance. Even when I'm not expecting anyone, in my mind I'm selecting types of music for occasions. Presentation and mood.
- I'll take a trip somewhere and mark all the cool places in my mind so that I can revist them with other people and show this special, one-of-a-kind spot I discovered to them.
- Changing into comfy clothes when I get home is akin to mind transition.
- I like to introduce people to 'worthy' items of consideration: music, books, films, places.
- A certain light plus a special breeze with the right angle can completely change the emotional charge of scenery (Si+Fe)
- Daydreams can be a fabricated scene that can be modified, as if I'm constructing a scene in a film or a stanza in a poem. The daydream is that I'm outside of it. Again, mood and presentation.

Not liking to cook or being a bad cook does not mean you're not a Si ego.

It was just an example. I had this idea not long ago of combining automation, lighting and a kind of fey-wild aesthetic to alter my living environment at home at least. Idk how to put it properly, but most of the time I think the physical environment around me is.. dull and its affecting my mood, so i try to control that with lighting, smells, noises and visuals that essentially liven things up.

[thegreenfaerie]

"In social situations I'm rather stoic or at best friendly and people say I make them feel at ease and have this relaxing influence on them. Its probably why kids and animals like me so much." - I relate to this a lot. I'm more cool and composed in my approach in a professional setting often time for example. I worked in behavioral health and I've had a lot of people tell me they feel like they can open me and basically feel like I don't do anything, lol. I do love assessments when I get to do those in some positions and well, it's hard to describe....sometimes I'm more calm and composed, but then when something gets mentioned I'm really into I'm like !!!! I guess I vary more than what you're describing for yourself. The anger thing you are describing sounds potentially unrelated to socionics and more to psych related issues...

Phlegmatic would be more in line with SLI, but could easily be with IEE too. Phlegmatic seems a bit delta overall I think. In any regard, I'm melancholic so it doesn't always match up perfect!

The thing with machines *came off* a bit Ti to me, but I"m still new to all of this relatively so I could be off. It at least sounds T, but it sounds like something some Ti valuers I've known have been into.

[SGF]

The anger thing you are describing sounds potentially unrelated to socionics and more to psych related issues...

While I may regret the consequences of this tendency at times, I do like this part of me, because it allows me to easily regulate my relationship with shitty pushy controlling people who demand my time and energy. I was always like this to be honest even as a kid as far back as I can remember. Its a possible reaction to my grandmother who is a manipulative & controlling pathological liar.

Phlegmatic would be more in line with SLI, but could easily be with IEE too. Phlegmatic seems a bit delta overall I think. In any regard, I'm melancholic so it doesn't always match up perfect!

Are you sure O.o? Melancholics fear failure and they reject themselves as well as other people, which makes them detail focused perfectionist introverts struggling to live up to an internal ideal. Imagine Severus Snape. EP types tend to be some sanguine mix tbh, they have a kind of need for attention, like Ron Weasley or his twin brothers. Cholerics are goal focused driven ppl Se-Ni like Tom Riddle, Harry Potter, Draco Malfoy, Hermione Granger . Phlegmatics on the other hand just try to conserve energy and are ambivalent about themselves and others like Luna Lovegood. Now supine people manifest as melancholic, but their driving need for acceptance pushes them to be self sacrificing while harboring anger for not being appreciated due to them not being able to express this need. They reject themselves but accept others, like Dobby the house elf or Neville Longbottom. <== sounds like my mother.

Some people say they are melancholic due to being kinda depressed, but they may not manifest compulsive perfectionism born out of self rejection and rejection of the external world.

Example: in my case I have both fear of rejection and fear/distrust of dominance. e_e typical type 6 stuff characteristic of melancholic types. hmm now that I explained it to someone else... wtf I'm probably more melancholic as well. Explains why I fight back compared to a Supine. Tfw I am Snape.

The Melancholy and Choleric's anger is tied to their low responsive score (i.e. "not liking" people) while the Supine's anger is from liking people, but not receiving acknowledgment and acceptance from them.

Yeah, definitely sounds like I'm melancholic. Fuck. Explains the anger tho, also the suspicion of others and my inability to forgive or forget serous offenses or my own personal mistakes.

frioB.PNG

Source: http://www.erictb.info/temperament1.html

[thegreenfaerie]

Pathological liars are the worst. Yes, I am certain I am melancholic, secondary may be sanguine, I think it probably is, if not sanguine, phlegmatic, but I am 100 percent certain I am melancholic. I'm also very perfectionistic. It's eased up as I've gotten older, but it's still lingering underneath and shows itself in many places, more so in my real life. I actually have a need for accuracy in a lot of things, including my own typing, which is part of why I've had such a hard time with it. I guess I don't as much in some other things though I don't know that I'd use Harry Potter characters to seriously explain the temperaments, but I do appreciate it and like Harry Potter Melancholics aren't all like Snape lol LOL just go to your part on "wtf I'm Snape", I guess, join the club then : D

[SGF]

Pathological liars are the worst. Yes, I am certain I am melancholic, secondary may be sanguine, I think it probably is, if not sanguine, phlegmatic, but I am 100 percent certain I am melancholic. I'm also very perfectionistic. It's eased up as I've gotten older, but it's still lingering underneath and shows itself in many places, more so in my real life. I actually have a need for accuracy in a lot of things, including my own typing, which is part of why I've had such a hard time with it. I guess I don't as much in some other things though I don't know that I'd use Harry Potter characters to seriously explain the temperaments, but I do appreciate it and like Harry Potter Melancholics aren't all like Snape lol LOL just go to your part on "wtf I'm Snape", I guess, join the club then : D

hmm yeah, melancholic-saguine blend kinda makes sense.

[consentingadult]

Your posts in this thread imho are good examples of Big Five neuroticism traits typical of NF types. SLI is highly unlikely.

(Disclaimer: before anyone freaks out thinking I'm accusing you of having a personality disorder, well, I am not)

[SGF]

Your posts in this thread imho are good examples of Big Five neuroticism traits typical of NF types. SLI is highly unlikely.

(Disclaimer: before anyone freaks out thinking I'm accusing you of having a personality disorder, well, I am not)

Hmm, yeah, it could be. I'm not the idealistic rose colored glasses feely kind of NF tho. I guess I'm just in no way soft hearted and my outlook tends to be cynical / jaded rather than idealistic.

[thegreenfaerie]

Hmm, yeah, it could be. I'm not the idealistic rose colored glasses feely kind of NF tho. I guess I'm just in no way soft hearted and my outlook tends to be cynical / jaded rather than idealistic.

I think NF's can be like this

[SGF]

I think NF's can be like this

So what kind of NF?

[Sol]

https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...=1#post1096450

[gone]

So what kind of NF?

Any, rose colored glasses stereotype is MBTI nonsense or more Enneagram-related

[flames]

I think NF's can be like this

Ya I agree. A lot of 4s are NFs and they can be very jaded and even prickly (especially/mainly So last 4s, I think) and their intuition and feeling is more oriented towards what’s missing and how it sucks rather than being a bubbly humanitarian optimist like say, a stereotypical IEE 7 or EIE 2 would be... IEI seems most prone to this mindset/behavior. They are one type away from the ultimate cynics that are ILIs after all. EIE can just as easily come in a harsh and jaded form rather than a loving one too ex. H I T L E R (it censors his name on here??) (EIE) could have been called an idealist (idealism is “unrealistically aiming for perfection” according to google and he definitely had an overblown aim towards his -screwed up- version of perfection) simply because he had a strong vision but in my eyes he was largely just very jaded/negative/cynical/full of unwarranted animosity and he was compassionate to his insane vision rather than towards people and the world at large (NF is probably the most stereotypically compassionate bunch). Obviously very different from classically compassionate and idealistic Oprah (also EIE— but she has tackled a lot of pessimistic topics on her show and she’s totally not the manic pixie dream girl type of NF). Beta NFs are also Se valuing/seeking and Fe valuing so they can be rough around the edges or have a “meaner” (hard to find the right word here) heart in a (subconscious) attempt to be like their tough duals and/or be that way because of societal pressure — that’s where the Fe valuing part comes in place in case you were wondering.

Delta NFs are Te valuing so they can be cutthroat too... Personally, I have known IEEs to be very cold at times even if they are “normally” rose colored glasses and upbeat. IEE is also a negativist type so even though they can put on a happy face they are always noticing the flaws in things first. The bigger problem here is that people seem to have the wrong idea that NFs are ethereal, mythical beings rather than real people who have normal feelings and reactions and can be pessimistic or grumpy or assertive or whatever else we think is “not” NF. STs would stereotypically be the most cold or aggressive types but I’ve known really warm and compassionate ones — actually they are often this way; molding themselves to be more “NF” like just as NF can do vice versa as I said.

[flames]

Any, rose colored glasses stereotype is MBTI nonsense or more Enneagram-related

Yeah, sounds like the typical MBTI ENFP and enneagram 7 descriptor. Like, I have seen the exact phrase in descriptions for them.

[thegreenfaerie]

As a side note, I'm pretty sure I would not be considered upbeat. I've never heard that word to describe me in my life, lol...

[consentingadult]

Hmm, yeah, it could be. I'm not the idealistic rose colored glasses feely kind of NF tho. I guess I'm just in no way soft hearted and my outlook tends to be cynical / jaded rather than idealistic.

That's how NF's are defined in MBTI. Socionics has a far more nuanced perspective on these types.

ETA: I see some other people already beat me to it.

[Kernel]

Why don't you do the questionnaire available on this forum? Maybe we could help better that way.

[SGF]

Why don't you do the questionnaire available on this forum? Maybe we could help better that way.

The Extended Questionnaire v3.0

What do you study or do for a living? How did you come to do that? What do you like or dislike about it?
IT. I'm a network admin. I was always taking machines apart to see how they work and one day my parents got me an old Tulip 386 desktop that ran DOS and Windows 3.11. Eventually I burned it's PSU out and busted the PC in an attempt to "make it run faster", but I enjoyed tinkering with it so much I signed up for an after school IT program. Computer nerd ever since. Funny enough I don't really enjoy coding. I like my tools, not sitting around typing.

What else do you do on a daily basis? What are your interests and hobbies? Why do you do them?
-.- uh, I go to work, come home eat sleep go to work. Stuck in a rut. Tired of it, but idk how to break out, bored af.
Interests:
Messing around with and building my home server, IoT and automation.
Gaming (only CRPGS, tbh I don't play anything else as I don't have the patience for games anymore). Its mostly for escapism.
I like to learn about economics, dabble in philosophy, politics.
I enjoy dungeons and dragons stuff.
I enjoy cooking, grilling and being out in nature. Good thing I have a large garden and live close to mountains and forests.
I used to think I liked photography, turns out I just liked using photography gear, not photography itself.

What are your values, and why?
No idea. I'm a cynical sob. It depends on the situation. I prefer to maximize gain without hurting other ppl. All this talk about "our values" in the media also annoys me, because they proudly state them while society burns down around them.. how pathetic and weak. It pisses me off.

Describe your relationships with family and friends. What do you like and dislike about them?
I always had a good relationship with my folks, brother and cousins excluding my grandmother, who is a pathological liar, torments my parents, especially my mother. I'm on a no talking basis with her, fuck that old hag. I'll piss on her grave one day when we are finally free of her. Outside of family I have very few actual friends, can count on one hand. I do know plenty of ppl tho, but the relationships are rather shallow, I'm very picky about people. I get along well with most of them, but I don't like the controlling manipulative ones or ppl who are clingy. I need my alone time and space away from others. I guess I'm kinda like a cat.

What do you look for in friends? In romantic relationships?
Psychological compatibility, similar interests for friends. I like people who keep me on my toes without being clingy, people who can handle me vanishing for a week into other interests. People with whom I can talk about non mundane / more out there ideas even stuff that may be considered "wrongthink". For romantic relationships, well I clearly need a woman who is outgoing and can drag me with her on "adventure", preferably with a nice ass and thighs. I dislike bossy controlling "you must follow the rules" kind of people or people who cause needless drama, weak willed ppl who constantly feel sorry for themselves disgust me also idiots who just do and never stop to think beforehand.

What conflicts have you encountered recently with other people? Why did they happen? Which kinds seem to happen on a regular basis?

Most recent ones at work. The boss is a rather choleric willful impulsive guy with the creativity and logical thinking capacity of a brick.. which often leads to us losing money. The fool just rushes everything, is very "my way or the highway" and never considers other people's input outside of his step-mother's, who owns the company. We had some communication issues between the departments which cost us a lot of money. He got in an uproar and yelled at some ppl who weren't really at fault so I took the initiative to find the problems and propose solutions, so we can avoid the financial loss in the future. He didn't even let me explain, wasn't at all interested in why and how we got into the mess in the first place or in fixing the problems. I got pissed and called him an idiot, things got heated. He didn't fire me and acted all overly friendly the next day. Idk wtf is his malfunction. Best guess is that he depends on me too much for too many things and post arguing he got scared I'll quit. We can't seem to find qualified personnel lately, maybe I have him by the balls hehe.

Same thing at work I have an anal by the book LSI manager. She likes controlling people. We argue a lot tbh. She demands a lot of redundant bureaucratic garbage and I'm not willing to comply.

What are your strengths? What do people like about you? What do you like about yourself?
I'm good at solving problems, a kind of troubleshooter. I'm also good at predicting problems and dealing with them be4 they appear. Ppl come to me for help with all kinds of issues. Sometimes its annoying, I hate the fact that they depend on me and take up my time. People also say I have a calming effect on them just by being there with them, kids and animals seem to like me for the same reason. I'm highly approachable and give off this "you can say anything to me" vibe. I'm rather independent, can deal with most things alone outside of social stuff.. which I suck at.

What are your weaknesses? What criticism do you often face from others? What do you dislike about yourself?
I don't go out enough to socialize, I isolate myself from others, I lack ambition and am lazy af. I procrastinate, overthink things and fail at taking action, often fail to stick with what I started.

In what areas of life can you manage well on your own? In what areas of your life would you like help?
I need help with the social sphere, with getting out of the house, with avoiding procrastination and laziness. Someone needs to drag me with them so I engage with the external world and take action.

What things do you dislike doing? What things do you enjoy more than others?
I dislike having to tell other people what to do and dealing with things I consider boring.
I like working on something I'm at the time interested in and being in a state of flow.

What goals, aspirations, or plans do you have for the future, and why?
I'd like to marry, start a family, and to have the freedom of engaging with activities I consider interesting. Other than that I'm not very ambitious.

If you won the lottery and didn't have to work anymore, what would you do?
Reinvest the money and build assets to make sure I don't waste it like most idiots who win the lottery.

What traits do you find endearing that others might dislike? What traits are considered positive/neutral by others but tend to annoy you?
I find petite willful loudmouth women to be funny/cute. Its like when a weasel tries to scold you hehe.. kawaii :3. Sentimental naïve idealists seem to be loved by society, but I just find them annoying/frustrating and often plain dumb.

What kinds of things do you do to manage and/or beautify your environment (your room, your house, etc.)?
I like maintaining a comfortable atmosphere which has a relaxing effect on my mental. For this reason I manage ambient lighting, smells even sounds with automated speakers. The materials and colors in the room are chosen towards this goal including how I place the furniture.

In what situations or times in your life did you feel most fulfilled, and why?
Can’t remember. I guess I was never truly happy or fulfilled.

How do you behave around strangers?
It depends on who that other person is. Normally I’m blunt and “what you see is what you get”. With strangers I adapt behavior to suit the situation and their personality.

How do you react to conflict? What do you do if somebody insults or attacks you?
Conflict sucks and it bothers me. It bothers me to be around people who constantly generate conflict and drama or have this toxic presence about them (like my grandmother). My natural reaction is to just overpower the other person mentally, intellectually, physically if need be and to crush them totally and keep crushing them till they can’t stand it anymore, to break them and when they are broken to step on them haha *evil laughter* no mercy. I get this rush and sadistic glee tbh its liberating.. but the outcome is usually regrettable and with some people I completely lose my temper & control, it scares people who care about me. e_e so I have learned to control myself and to avoid flying off the handle, to just leave the situation and avoid it. I secretly enjoy my anger tho, but I have excelent breaks.. even moreso now than as a kid. (I realize this might sound scary, but imo its relevant.)

Ever feel stuck in a rut? If yes, describe the causes and your reaction to it.
Yes. Fear, overthinking things leads to procrastination and inaction. Its one of my biggest problems.

Would you ever be interested in starting a business? Why or why not? What role would you play in it? What kind of business would it be?
Yes, something IT related. I’d be managing it, growing it. It’s a great idea as long as I can keep my interest levels up.

How do you dress or manage your appearance?
I like it comfy, light, and practical. Size to fit my body usually black with pastel colors. I hate formal & uncomfortable clothes like suits, ties, dress shoes and such.

What were you like as a child? How have you changed since then?
The same, just more naïve. I used to be more outgoing & trusting.

Do you like kids? Why or why not?
Yeah, kids are nice. I’m constantly told I’m gr8 with kids.

If you are doing a video you can stop here and/or choose from the rest of the questions as you like.

How do you feel about attention? Do you seek it out?
No. The tallest grass gets cut. I prefer to not stick out..:/ but I always manage for some dumb reason. Fucking hell.



How do you approach responsibility? What do you tend to expect of others?
I have low expectations of other people to avoid constant disappointment, but I’m overly self-critical and expect a lot out of myself.. which makes me incapable of being irresponsible, the guilt would drive me mad.

If you were to raise a child, what would be your main concerns, what approach would you take, and why?
Main concern would be their mental and physical health. I want them to have the freedom and responsibility of choosing the kind of life they want for themselves, to learn to think for themselves & be independent. I’d supply the necessary resources and encouragement towards this end, material and otherwise.

What is your biggest accomplishment?
Nothing I’d consider big. Sad.

What was (or is) your high school experience like?
It sucked. I was a good student tho, top grades and all that despite being lazy and barely studying (because most subjects bored me to death). Hated literature the most. Geometry was fun.

What is something you regret?
Nothing really. Odd.

Who do you admire, and why?
Nobody specific comes to mind.

What's been on your mind? Has anything been worrying or concerning you? What problems have you encountered lately?
Need a change of career or find something meaningful to do.
Need to socialize & get out more, but I don’t feel like it.

What are your spiritual or religious beliefs and why do you hold them?
Agnostic atheist. This might sound band, but imo we are animals and those who survive and prosper are the fittest / strongest. Religion imo is a coping / control mechanism.


What are your political beliefs, and why? To what extent do you care about politics?
This is complicated, because I think all sides suck, but they also have good ideas each. I care a lot about politics, but I won’t go into detail as it gets me into trouble with people due to how my beliefs rub all current political sides the wrong way.


What kind of work environment do you prefer? What do you look for in a job?
Comfort, low stress are priorities. It should be interesting and keep me engaged. Money is important, but not as important as these.

What is or was your favorite school subject and why?
Geometry, informatics and foreign languages. Because I am good at these.

What is one common misconception that people have about life? Explain why it is wrong.
Ppl think they need to be happy all the time, that’s dumb. I’d rather have an interesting life than a happy one. Makes for a better story.

Where did you go on your most recent vacation? What did you do there? How did you like it and why?
I’m stuck in a rut, I don’t get out much. Sad af.

How do you see other people as a whole? What do you consider a prevalent social problem?
The plebs are easy to misinform.

What do you do if you're not getting what you want? What approach do you use?
I work on it till I get what I want.

Are you comfortable taking leadership roles? In what areas? Why or why not?
No. I don’t like telling ppl what to do.

What is one unusual trait or ability you possess? What makes you special?
I’m not special.

What is your sense of humor like? Do you joke around a lot?
I like dark humor a lot. I often make ppl laugh through witty one liners.

Your friend bursts into tears. What do you do? How does it make you feel?
Annoyed that I have to deal with this now. Just let the friend cry it out and be there next to them, then we can work on a solution.

What is the best thing that happened to you during the past week?
Hehe, someone made cheesecake for me <3.

What is the worst thing that happened to you during the past week?
Eh, dunno.

What is the purpose of life? What do you find personally meaningful in life?
To survive, evolve and conquer.

Do you like surprises?
NO

[qaz00]

Ok, now it's clear. SLI

[SGF]

Ok, now it's clear. SLI

Whot? Explaion thyself. Why?

[Northstar]

Haha, SLI is obvious. Funny, I can relate to maybe more than half of your questionnaire answers but not all of them (most differences related to the valuation of Se vs Si).
I can easily see IEE being your dual (your description of the women you like matches them well), but you're not IEE yourself for sure.

[qaz00]

Whot? Explaion thyself. Why?

Idk what to explain when you're so obviously SLI but it was your opinions about people, what you like and dislike in them that made me sure. Also that you know how to do things and be efficient but lack inspiration and direction and IEEs are best in providing this.

[Kernel]

I agree with SLI. Fi/Te valuing is clear, but not IEE. You seem Fe polr from the way you speak too (honest, no bullshit, blunt). I think Fe polr are usually this way with everyone, which I find kinda refreshing and funny. LSE too can be like this, but you are surely an Ixxp type more than exxj.

[SGF]

Odd, I relate to the ILI description better than SLI e_e hmm... especially to Se Suggetive: https://www.sociotype.com/socionics/types/ILI-INTp/

ILIs are often characterized by their inertia. If left to their own devices, ILIs may choose to do relatively little to interact with the outside world. When they do interact with the outside world, ILIs often find their activities to be empty and unfulfilling. To ILIs, life is often characterized by periods of stimulation. For the ILI, however, true stimulation is often spontaneous, and interludes between periods of stimulation are often characterized by tedium, inertia, and apathy. ILIs are often not very adept at finding new areas of interest, and may seek to continue to reproduce past experiences instead of moving on to new things. In order to break out of this cycle, ILIs require an outside stimulus of spontaneity and activity. With such a degree of spontaneity introduced into their lives, the tedium and perceived meaninglessness is replaced by a constant state of activity in which the ILI can experience new things and escape from the confines of his own mind. <== this. I'm 100% stuck in my own mind all the time thinking. Inertia, procrastination, doubting & skepticism are the norm for everything. Tendency towards negativism for sure. I always see every way something can and will go wrong and what is missing.

... considering I always test mbti INTP... maybe.

Is this why I like moralizing ESIs and feisty petite women with an attitude? lmao.. very cute.

Idk lol. Maybe Vi.

[Kiba]

I thought you were ILI but I was too lazy to comment.

[mr provocateur]

How do I tell if I'm SLI or IEE ? I don't have a problem with reading people's intentions, body language, emotions or the emotional atmosphere, in fact I'm really good at this.. but I absolutely suck at emotional expression, influencing other people or the emotional atmosphere and I always feel like an alien/outsider who is incapable of feeling one with the group and is blind to social convention. the latter used to be a source of social anxiety and is my biggest weak-spot. I'm incapable of not being eccentric / odd. I tried.. nothing works, people always take note of this. Frustrating. I'm neurotypical tho, 0 autism.

LOL, so people want to get their branding iron out of their warehouse and burn the word "autistic" in your ass (and wrongfully so)? True/False?

I think ILI could make more sense.

People who do not have a clue are quite interesting. What is missing etc. Anyway, I do not really care of being sensitive peeps feels and sometimes it seems like I walk over them just because I can in heat of the moment.

[SGF]

LOL, so people want to get their branding iron out of their warehouse and burn the word "autistic" in your ass (and wrongfully so)? True/False?

Some days I wish I could blame it on being autistic.. sadly I'm a verified neurotypical. I'd rather avoid talking about how or why I was advised to have it checked out

I thought you were ILI but I was too lazy to comment.

I can relate, don't worry my furry feathered friend.

[Vex]

It'd be better if we stopped associating to cooking so much. It's going to confuse people. There could be a relation, I guess, but other ways I believe Si manifests with me:


-I'll create an atmosphere with lights and music for guests or alike. An ambiance. Even when I'm not expecting anyone, in my mind I'm selecting types of music for occasions. Presentation and mood.
- I'll take a trip somewhere and mark all the cool places in my mind so that I can revist them with other people and show this special, one-of-a-kind spot I discovered to them.
- Changing into comfy clothes when I get home is akin to mind transition.
- I like to introduce people to 'worthy' items of consideration: music, books, films, places.
- A certain light plus a special breeze with the right angle can completely change the emotional charge of scenery (Si+Fe)
- Daydreams can be a fabricated scene that can be modified, as if I'm constructing a scene in a film or a stanza in a poem. The daydream is that I'm outside of it. Again, mood and presentation.


Not liking to cook or being a bad cook does not mean you're not a Si ego.

Thank you for this. My ESE mother is like this, she doesn't think she enjoys cooking but she goes out of her way to serve others due to her caregiver approach/lifestyle.

Any, rose colored glasses stereotype is MBTI nonsense or more Enneagram-related

True, at least in the context of them being on all the time. The "uwu the world is so beautiful and full of flowers and peace and loveliness rawr XD" mode that's supposedly on all the time is so MBTI NF haha.

As for @shotgunfingers typing, shotgun does seem to be Fe polr and an Ne user. I'm not saying I'm the most well spoken bitch on this forum but the way we couldn't read each other in our interaction last night I think would be an example of differing quadras interacting, the difference between Fe and Fi mainly. He literally explained to me how emoticons worked as a friendly re-affirmation, even though most all the emoticons on this forum have a very clear meaning that don't require a cultural context specific to this forum, so it was one of the most stereotypical Fe polr things I've ever seen. Plus the way he asserts textbook knowledge seems Te.

[SGF]

As for @shotgunfingers typing, shotgun does seem to be Fe polr and an Ne user. I'm not saying I'm the most well spoken bitch on this forum but the way we couldn't read each other in our interaction last night I think would be an example of differing quadras interacting, the difference between Fe and Fi mainly. He literally explained to me how emoticons worked as a friendly re-affirmation, even though most all the emoticons on this forum have a very clear meaning that don't require a cultural context specific to this forum, so it was one of the most stereotypical Fe polr things I've ever seen. Plus the way he asserts textbook knowledge seems Te.

Damn it! . See I wish I was autistic, at least it would be a good excuse. On second thought maybe not.. don't want to become a burden on people.

[Vex]

Damn it! . See I wish I was autistic, at least it would be a good excuse. On second thought maybe not.. don't want to become a burden on people.

You ok bro? I don't have a problem with anything you do or say, and so far nobody else seems to. The forum encounter I mentioned was just a difference in thought process and miscommunication on both our parts and that's OK. That's human for everybody and it's part of this forum experience, and it's a part of the typing process from what I understand. Your fixation on autism though is pretty autistic lol.

Although it's worth noting that a lot of autistic people are well functioning members of society.