Have you observed that Te/Fi valuing types have less self-control over their emotions?

[SaveYourself]

Lol. I've already figured you EIEs out. I would not back off and "excuse" you unless my emotions and my "history" are also taken into account just as much as yours. Then it is a fair and balanced way of communication rather than manipulative shit. : p

Ofc, LSI will be at a disadvantage at figuring out their own emotions and conveying them for this kind of exchange. Like, it's gonna take time for the LSI to do so. Except if the emotions are provoked for release (see below)

I was also gonna say: how about you maybe just deal with being challenged directly. But then ofc the EIE is gonna be at a disadvantage there. : p

Ofc the devil's in the details, so it depends on what he tried to challenge you about. Was it actually fair and reasonable or not.

But I'm not a believer whatsoever in LSI spoiling EIE.

Anyway, in my own experiences, it works actually well if we (EIE & me, as an LSI) both turn the disagreement into a little drama and release emotions, convey a few infos that way too, and then able to discuss and resolve stuff rationally too. And no hard feelings that way, lol. Or self-serving manipulation either.

Yeah I'm a "very reactive" LSI-Se too I guess lol but yeah that's worked for me

lol I should probably have put a line it to say that I don't condone this sort of behaviour. I was trying to show that probably EIEs aren't level headed and in control like the OP suggested but are just showing it in a different way. Yeah I'd rather be able to take a head on confrontation that resort to manipulation. But these are the cards I've been dealt

Obviously I can continue to work towards not being such a crybaby but I'm just gonna have a harder time getting there than other people because of where I'm starting from.

I agree with the drama element. My LSI-Se always feels an immediate release after he's blown some steam. He doesn't hold back and hates it when I do. One time I was taking a while to come back to him during a disagreement and he pushed me to respond and I said, "I'm trying to find a nice way to say I think you're being a dickhead" and he responded with, "why not just call me a dickhead?" So I did and it cleared everything up way quicker.

It's made me think that all my life I've been taught to do the opposite of my programming (i.e. to stay rational, practice non-violent, non-emotional communication) whereas LSI doesn't respond to that. With him, I'm unlearning all the cultural stuff and just getting back to the raw emotional side. And if I'm not blunt and over the top in my emotions he sometimes doesn't understand that something is wrong.

It's very freeing to be able to tell someone you love to fuck off and have them appreciate your honesty. And then yeah, like you say, move into a more rational conversation after the release. Maybe being able to do this will also train me away from manipulation too - which is possibly just a byproduct of dealing with other types my whole life and not being able to yell at them but also not being able to choose something other than an emotional response

[grumpyvic81]

lol I should probably have put a line it to say that I don't condone this sort of behaviour. I was trying to show that probably EIEs aren't level headed and in control like the OP suggested but are just showing it in a different way. Yeah I'd rather be able to take a head on confrontation that resort to manipulation. But these are the cards I've been dealt

Obviously I can continue to work towards not being such a crybaby but I'm just gonna have a harder time getting there than other people because of where I'm starting from.

lol mix of sorta refreshing honesty & complaining crybaby yeah

I actually met one EIE so far that was able to stand up to my challenging her and not give in or get manipulative. She later said about a specific case of this that she felt the pressure that she'd need to give in and agree to the opinion I was expressing but she tried to deal with it head-on instead. I respect that yeah ...

So no it's not like impossible for an EIE, no matter about the cards. : p

I agree with the drama element. My LSI-Se always feels an immediate release after he's blown some steam. He doesn't hold back and hates it when I do. One time I was taking a while to come back to him during a disagreement and he pushed me to respond and I said, "I'm trying to find a nice way to say I think you're being a dickhead" and he responded with, "why not just call me a dickhead?" So I did and it cleared everything up way quicker.

It's made me think that all my life I've been taught to do the opposite of my programming (i.e. to stay rational, practice non-violent, non-emotional communication) whereas LSI doesn't respond to that. With him, I'm unlearning all the cultural stuff and just getting back to the raw emotional side. And if I'm not blunt and over the top in my emotions he sometimes doesn't understand that something is wrong.

It's very freeing to be able to tell someone you love to fuck off and have them appreciate your honesty. And then yeah, like you say, move into a more rational conversation after the release. Maybe being able to do this will also train me away from manipulation too - which is possibly just a byproduct of dealing with other types my whole life and not being able to yell at them but also not being able to choose something other than an emotional response

Yeah I'm sick of being told about this overly positive worldview about how to "stay rational, practice non-violent, non-emotional communication". I mean sometimes maybe it helps but then definitely not always ...... you can't try and make yourself into too much of a do-gooder. Shit's just gonna come out in a worse way, in an indirect or direct fashion later.

For your last lines, yeah, I would also say all this needs the right relationship context too. But you two clearly have it.