You know you're LIE when...

[Rebelondeck]

What?

I'm not reallty good at "selling my vision" - I don't try to pursuade others, that is so against what Te does. But I do have practical skills and tools to make things happen - I also have initiative in these matters.

I did say "or". I was referring to my dealings with the type where there seemed to always be something significant missing from the package that was pitched (a catch), but the pitch was usually superb. I haven't met an LIE who couldn't pitch - now some were better than others.......

a.k.a. I/O

[Adam Strange]

I did say "or". I was referring to my dealings with the type where there seemed to always be something significant missing from the package that was pitched (a catch), but the pitch was usually superb. I haven't met an LIE who couldn't pitch - now some were better than others.......

a.k.a. I/O

@Rebelondeck, can you say more about what you see as being left out of the pitch?

Also, how do you think that affects the audience response?

[Rebelondeck]

@Rebelondeck, can you say more about what you see as being left out of the pitch?

Also, how do you think that affects the audience response?

The pitches usually attempted to skirt potential risks with a project; LIEs often seem to think that they can handle any problem ad hoc and in theory, that could be true but the devil is in the details. What bites them in the ass bites the customer or backer of the project. In half the cases, it's not deliberate because LIEs seem to downplay risk or the unknowns even to themselves so it's usually up to the third party to uncover it. The audience, once burnt, distrusts the LIEs abilities so they usually have to move on.

a.k.a. I/O

[Adam Strange]

The pitches usually attempted to skirt potential risks with a project; LIEs often seem to think that they can handle any problem ad hoc and in theory, that could be true but the devil is in the details. What bites them in the ass bites the customer or backer of the project. In half the cases, it's not deliberate because LIEs seem to downplay risk or the unknowns even to themselves so it's usually up to the third party to uncover it. The audience, once burnt, distrusts the LIEs abilities so they usually have to move on.

a.k.a. I/O

I completely agree with this. I've seen it myself many times. I've experienced it myself. We lost a good customer last year because I underestimated the resources required to successfully complete the project. It failed, and they were not happy.
I see this potentially happening on a lot of other projects, too. FML. I've even seen other LIE's do this exact same thing.

I work with male LII's and with a male ESI and they all try to keep me from doing this, but none of them are completely successful. Probably because I haven't been listening to them or using them correctly to compensate for, or to even solve, my own intrinsic problems.
You have to be aware of the nature of the problem before you can fix it, and I haven't been. Not explicitly.

Thank you for your insightful reply, @Rebelondeck. I appreciate it.

[Zero]

The pitches usually attempted to skirt potential risks with a project; LIEs often seem to think that they can handle any problem ad hoc and in theory, that could be true but the devil is in the details. What bites them in the ass bites the customer or backer of the project. In half the cases, it's not deliberate because LIEs seem to downplay risk or the unknowns even to themselves so it's usually up to the third party to uncover it. The audience, once burnt, distrusts the LIEs abilities so they usually have to move on.

a.k.a. I/O

I have (almost) no business experience, unlike Adam, but this is also generally true about me as well. My mother used to even say that motto to me constantly until recently: "the devil is in the details"

That is also related to a comment I made somewhere some time ago about being Si painful "either all in or not"
So when you are "loyal" to an idea, you're "all in" and you're devoting yourself and everything you have to make that vision happen.

[Adam Strange]

I have (almost) no business experience, unlike Adam, but this is also generally true about me as well. My mother used to even say that motto to me constantly until recently: "the devil is in the details"

That is also related to a comment I made somewhere some time ago about being Si painful "either all in or not"
So when you are "loyal" to an idea, you're "all in" and you're devoting yourself and everything you have to make that vision happen.

My business experience is actually pretty crappy. What I do seems really simple, but I could see it being workable only to someone with LIE traits.

It consists of two basic courses of action. One, I pitch an idea to one or more customers, usually at a too-low price, and if they go for it, I bring the people and the resources together to accomplish the project. Sometimes, customers approach me with some problem. This course of action has not been spectacularly profitable.
Or Two, I write proposals for government contracts for things that the government wants, and then bring the people and the resources forward to accomplish the project. This has been incredibly profitable, but it is not working towards my own vision. However, having the robust financial margins of government contracts is incredibly helpful because it compensates for my permanent tendency to underestimate what resources a project is going to require.

This has been a good day. I've found out a lot about myself this morning on the forum.

[Ave]

I did say "or". I was referring to my dealings with the type where there seemed to always be something significant missing from the package that was pitched (a catch), but the pitch was usually superb. I haven't met an LIE who couldn't pitch - now some were better than others.......

a.k.a. I/O

It isn't really my intent to "pitch" if it's what I do lol. Usually I'll propose my ideas and hope that others will see the appeal in the idea itself, rather than have them focus on my discourse.

[Rebelondeck]

It isn't really my intent to "pitch" if it's what I do lol. Usually I'll propose my ideas and hope that others will see the appeal in the idea itself, rather than have them focus on my discourse.

LIE's ability to connect the dots shows up in most of their written and verbal communication because content is usually well structured, logical and easy to follow; being able to move, ad hoc, the focus of an audience to a targetted idea is a real strength. Again, some are better at it than others but on average, LIEs tend to be the best at explaining complex concepts to the uninformed even though the ideas can be faulty.

a.k.a. I/O

[Zero]

LIE's ability to connect the dots shows up in most of their written and verbal communication because content is usually well structured, logical and easy to follow; being able to move, ad hoc, the focus of an audience to a targetted idea is a real strength. Again, some are better at it than others but on average, LIEs tend to be the best at explaining complex concepts to the uninformed even though the ideas can be faulty.

a.k.a. I/O

Most people at the place I work and university would agree with this, there is however one particular ESE who believes I get angry too soon when faced with too many questions or suggestions which point towards "outside of topic"
For example, in her opinion, when I want to go from X to Y and have a plan for this, it usually makes me angry if someone keeps suggesting : why are you going to Y? Why did you start from X? Why not go to Z? Why do you want to go at all?
Which are the questions this particular ESE asks a lot
It's not comfortable for me to keep pausing my process to answer these questions to someone who is constantly making seemingly unrelated suggestions

[Rebelondeck]

....It's not comfortable for me to keep pausing my process to answer these questions to someone who is constantly making seemingly unrelated suggestions

This tunnel vision, which ESEs can also have in spades, keeps Ejs on task but makes them rather combative at times. When I used to see two Ejs going at it, I likened it to two people sword-fighting with dunce caps - the caps signifying the progressive narrowing of vision.
a.k.a. I/O