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Thread: You know you're LIE when...

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    Default You know you're LIE when...

    The reason which motivates you to brush your teeth for 2 minutes every night is to avoid having to pay a dentist later due to a cavity. They charge too much. (And it'll be a sign of mistake to carry around for the rest of your life)

    More coming soon...
    [Thoughts pending...]

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    a two horned unicorn renegade COVID 007's Avatar
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    When you as a male fap to this

    or this?
    Measuring you right now

    Winning is for losers

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    You know you're LIE when you spend most of your time thinking about the best path forward and how this fucking place is going to make money next year.

    Your competition can see what you did last month and are busy copying it and claiming that they did it, and you have limited resources to devote to innovation, so you'd better be right about which path to take.

    And you listen to advice from others, but most of them don't know what they hell they should be doing in four hours, much less four months or four years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post

    And you listen to advice from others, but most of them don't know what they hell they should be doing in four hours, much less four months or four years.

    Personally, don't know what I'm going to do in four hours but I know exactly what I will be doing in 4 months and also 4 years. (If things go according to plan)

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    Quote Originally Posted by COVID 007 View Post
    When you as a male fap to this
    The boy in the first picture is hot. I don't think he's LIE. Why is she showing him her fist?! What is this

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    ....you've sold your vision but don't have the wherewithal, tools or practical skills to make it happen.......

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    ....you've sold your vision but don't have the wherewithal, tools or practical skills to make it happen.......

    a.k.a. I/O
    You must be thinking of LIE-Ni’s.

    In any case, that’s what all the resources of the world are for. Making the vision happen. For money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    You must be thinking of LIE-Ni’s.....
    Most, with whom I've worked, were superb at connecting the dots but didn't really bring any dots of their own. They often didn't know specifically what was needed so their guidance could be rather ambiguous but they certainly recognized a good thing when it was produced and used it to its full potential. However, I do recall one actually saying to an employee in a threatening tone: "If you can't tell me what I need, I'll get someone else."

    a.k.a. I/O
    Last edited by Rebelondeck; 05-13-2020 at 03:23 PM. Reason: Grammar

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    I may say about related to leading Te.

    You are sure in your type when what you know about yourself fits good to the theory of this type, fits better than to other types and you know enough to be sure. What is Te objectivity.

    You prefer the reason and truth above emotions, in general. As you think it's more for interests of others and yours.
    Among consequences of objectivity valuing is that you have low conformism, have skepsis to bosses and athorities opinions.
    Where you have basis to trust to your opinion - you tend to say it openly to anyone, where this relates to your duties and to people about who you care.

    You are attracted by sympathy emotions from others. In friends and pairs value the most emotional traits, the abbility to be nice and delicate, to be behave decently. Emotionally warm and pleasant people inspire the best emotional state in you - you may get an addiction from such people. Meanwhile you are annoyed by loud emotional expressions and raptures - you more perceive them as false theatric play.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    The boy in the first picture is hot. I don't think he's LIE. Why is she showing him her fist?! What is this
    I don't know if it truly applies, but it had me lmao

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    You must be thinking of LIE-Ni’s.

    In any case, that’s what all the resources of the world are for. Making the vision happen. For money.
    That's why you have a go to guy (or girl) for every situation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    ....you've sold your vision but don't have the wherewithal, tools or practical skills to make it happen.......

    a.k.a. I/O
    What?

    I'm not reallty good at "selling my vision" - I don't try to pursuade others, that is so against what Te does. But I do have practical skills and tools to make things happen - I also have initiative in these matters.
    Last edited by Uncle Ave; 05-18-2020 at 06:36 PM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    You must be thinking of LIE-Ni’s.

    In any case, that’s what all the resources of the world are for. Making the vision happen. For money.
    I think it's a bit more nuanced than that, at least for me.

    I do think you are right that making the vision happen in exchange for money is what LIEs do, which is why we work well in a (more or less) free market environment. Russian capitalism is bad for LIEs. Western capitalism favorable. Because there is freedom to undertake, and to be rewarded for your efforts. Personally, I need to feel that my efforts invested in a project is bringing real results that outweigh the effort put in - ILIs always have interesting ideas about automatizing work processes ime, and using their methods as tools helps move beyond the silex. Strat said something about "Sisyphian labor" being something LIEs can't stand.

    That said, while I find the financial reward important, I don't think it is everything either. "Profit", that is, what I get out of an activity, isn't exclusively financial. There is also a human element - how I'm impacting society, helping people develop their aptitudes and potential, as well as seeing the use of what I do in society. That in itself is rewarding. But you need money to get anything done in the world. So even less financial profitable projects are best backed up by more financially profitable ones. I find I get discouraged if the reward reaped is less or equal to the resources expended to acheive it - but the reward is not purely financial.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ave View Post
    What?

    I'm not reallty good at "selling my vision" - I don't try to pursuade others, that is so against what Te does. But I do have practical skills and tools to make things happen - I also have initiative in these matters.
    What do you mean by practical tools and skills?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ave View Post
    What?

    I'm not reallty good at "selling my vision" - I don't try to pursuade others, that is so against what Te does. But I do have practical skills and tools to make things happen - I also have initiative in these matters.
    I did say "or". I was referring to my dealings with the type where there seemed to always be something significant missing from the package that was pitched (a catch), but the pitch was usually superb. I haven't met an LIE who couldn't pitch - now some were better than others.......

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    I did say "or". I was referring to my dealings with the type where there seemed to always be something significant missing from the package that was pitched (a catch), but the pitch was usually superb. I haven't met an LIE who couldn't pitch - now some were better than others.......

    a.k.a. I/O
    @Rebelondeck, can you say more about what you see as being left out of the pitch?

    Also, how do you think that affects the audience response?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    @Rebelondeck, can you say more about what you see as being left out of the pitch?

    Also, how do you think that affects the audience response?
    The pitches usually attempted to skirt potential risks with a project; LIEs often seem to think that they can handle any problem ad hoc and in theory, that could be true but the devil is in the details. What bites them in the ass bites the customer or backer of the project. In half the cases, it's not deliberate because LIEs seem to downplay risk or the unknowns even to themselves so it's usually up to the third party to uncover it. The audience, once burnt, distrusts the LIEs abilities so they usually have to move on.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    The pitches usually attempted to skirt potential risks with a project; LIEs often seem to think that they can handle any problem ad hoc and in theory, that could be true but the devil is in the details. What bites them in the ass bites the customer or backer of the project. In half the cases, it's not deliberate because LIEs seem to downplay risk or the unknowns even to themselves so it's usually up to the third party to uncover it. The audience, once burnt, distrusts the LIEs abilities so they usually have to move on.

    a.k.a. I/O
    I completely agree with this. I've seen it myself many times. I've experienced it myself. We lost a good customer last year because I underestimated the resources required to successfully complete the project. It failed, and they were not happy.
    I see this potentially happening on a lot of other projects, too. FML. I've even seen other LIE's do this exact same thing.

    I work with male LII's and with a male ESI and they all try to keep me from doing this, but none of them are completely successful. Probably because I haven't been listening to them or using them correctly to compensate for, or to even solve, my own intrinsic problems.
    You have to be aware of the nature of the problem before you can fix it, and I haven't been. Not explicitly.

    Thank you for your insightful reply, @Rebelondeck. I appreciate it.

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    Good thing about LIIs is that they tend to foresee these kinds of difficulties in projects so it's good to keep their warnings in mind. But don't trust them to push things forward, have to remember that Se PoLR passivity in forcing things when sometimes all you need is an application of force.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    The pitches usually attempted to skirt potential risks with a project; LIEs often seem to think that they can handle any problem ad hoc and in theory, that could be true but the devil is in the details. What bites them in the ass bites the customer or backer of the project. In half the cases, it's not deliberate because LIEs seem to downplay risk or the unknowns even to themselves so it's usually up to the third party to uncover it. The audience, once burnt, distrusts the LIEs abilities so they usually have to move on.

    a.k.a. I/O
    I have (almost) no business experience, unlike Adam, but this is also generally true about me as well. My mother used to even say that motto to me constantly until recently: "the devil is in the details"

    That is also related to a comment I made somewhere some time ago about being Si painful "either all in or not"
    So when you are "loyal" to an idea, you're "all in" and you're devoting yourself and everything you have to make that vision happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    I have (almost) no business experience, unlike Adam, but this is also generally true about me as well. My mother used to even say that motto to me constantly until recently: "the devil is in the details"

    That is also related to a comment I made somewhere some time ago about being Si painful "either all in or not"
    So when you are "loyal" to an idea, you're "all in" and you're devoting yourself and everything you have to make that vision happen.
    My business experience is actually pretty crappy. What I do seems really simple, but I could see it being workable only to someone with LIE traits.

    It consists of two basic courses of action. One, I pitch an idea to one or more customers, usually at a too-low price, and if they go for it, I bring the people and the resources together to accomplish the project. Sometimes, customers approach me with some problem. This course of action has not been spectacularly profitable.
    Or Two, I write proposals for government contracts for things that the government wants, and then bring the people and the resources forward to accomplish the project. This has been incredibly profitable, but it is not working towards my own vision. However, having the robust financial margins of government contracts is incredibly helpful because it compensates for my permanent tendency to underestimate what resources a project is going to require.

    This has been a good day. I've found out a lot about myself this morning on the forum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northstar View Post
    Good thing about LIIs is that they tend to foresee these kinds of difficulties in projects so it's good to keep their warnings in mind. But don't trust them to push things forward, have to remember that Se PoLR passivity in forcing things when sometimes all you need is an application of force.
    I have said many times that LIIs are much better and more comfortable behind the throne than on it. However, when they find themselves on it, many tend to step up and are often quite successful. Confident Ti-subs seem to to acquire very thick skins, which is something that every leader/manager needs, and their seeming natural bent toward ruthlessness can sometimes be helpful.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    .....So when you are "loyal" to an idea, you're "all in" and you're devoting yourself and everything you have to make that vision happen.
    Unfortunately, many LIEs suffer from tunnel-vision (not as much as some Ips that I know but it can be significant), which can be both an asset and a weakness. LIEs don't seem to do well in the weeds and often don't pay enough attention to them; for them, failure seems to come from below and not from ahead where they usually have a clearer vision.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    Unfortunately, many LIEs suffer from tunnel-vision (not as much as some Ips that I know but it can be significant), which can be both an asset and a weakness. LIEs don't seem to do well in the weeds and often don't pay enough attention to them; for them, failure seems to come from below and not from ahead where they usually have a clearer vision.

    a.k.a. I/O
    I've known that I have a kind of tunnel vision for years, and I can tell you why LIE's in general have this.

    LIE's excel at harnessing the things readily available right now to solve some problems in the future. As @sbbds said in chat, LIE's make things out of junk. These things aren't really new inventions, usually. That's the realm of the ILE's and the LII's. But they are usually common things used in a way that no one else has seen before. Or assembled into a new configuration that has far-reaching consequences.

    Whenever you introduce something new to people, you get a very, very few early adopters and lots and lots of people telling you that you are crazy, that this thing is stupid and useless, that there is absolutely no market for this, etcetera, etcetera, and very often, the nay-sayers are right. They are "right" for the world as it is, not for the world as it could be.

    So LIE's get this almost universally negative response to the main thing that they do, and if they listened to the nay-sayers, they would be frozen in their tracks. And so, an LIE will foresee a need for something, will consider all the reasonably conceivable approaches for how to accomplish the task, will pick the best course of action and will commit to it. And then they will stop listening to other people. At that point, the LIE says, everyone just needs to get with the program and stay on course.

    This, of course, is where I have made some of my most stupid mistakes. Not listening to other people, not doing enough homework before committing, and not doing course-corrections after the stupid is glaringly obvious to everyone, including me. Of these three, I first started learning to do course corrections. Next, I started finding better counselors for deciding what resources need to be applied. The hardest thing for me to do is to listen to other people, especially if I want to do something and they are telling me that it doesn't make sense to do it.

    When I catch myself doing this, if I catch myself doing this, it is a clear sign to me that I'm not thinking rationally about the problem, but it can totally, totally look like tunnel vision to anyone who is watching the process.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    What do you mean by practical tools and skills?
    Well for example, practical skills - like what I've picked up working as an IT technician - how to take apart computers, their components, how to reassemble etc. This is a skill I can use anywhere. Tools would be more like methods to organize work, often methods I get from ILI. For example, my ILI friend and former collegue has good ideas about how to organize production in a streamlined, efficient fashion, by first seeing which used pcs have defects, for example, and only then refurbishing them (believe it or not the people at my company decided to it the other way around). And cloning ssds in a massive fashion, etc in order to speed up production (believe it or not, we only produce one pc at a time, when actually it would be better to mass produce, seems obvious but again...).

    Anyways, I dunno if you're familair with the IT terms I threw around there, but it's an example taken from my work because that's where I see how my "practical tools and skills" apply, lol. I can't really answer for others.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    I did say "or". I was referring to my dealings with the type where there seemed to always be something significant missing from the package that was pitched (a catch), but the pitch was usually superb. I haven't met an LIE who couldn't pitch - now some were better than others.......

    a.k.a. I/O
    It isn't really my intent to "pitch" if it's what I do lol. Usually I'll propose my ideas and hope that others will see the appeal in the idea itself, rather than have them focus on my discourse.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Whenever you introduce something new to people, you get a very, very few early adopters and lots and lots of people telling you that you are crazy, that this thing is stupid and useless, that there is absolutely no market for this, etcetera, etcetera, and very often, the nay-sayers are right. They are "right" for the world as it is, not for the world as it could be.
    Henry Ford once said: "If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said 'faster horses'". Just food for thought; I'm not here to felate LIEs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    The reason which motivates you to brush your teeth for 2 minutes every night is to avoid having to pay a dentist later due to a cavity. They charge too much. (And it'll be a sign of mistake to carry around for the rest of your life)

    More coming soon...
    [Thoughts pending...]
    true, im not LIE and i let my teeth rot cuz I love going to the dentist.
    ~ ESTP ~ SLE ~ ESTp ~ Self-Pres 7w8 ~ Sp/Sx ~ Fire Element ~ Aries Sign ~ Beta Quadra ~ Gryffindor House ~ Summer Season ~ SLUEN ~

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    Quote Originally Posted by Number 9 large View Post
    true, im not LIE and i let my teeth rot cuz I love going to the dentist.
    keep your sarcasm for reddit, here is meant the reason which is not immediately and predominantly related to "beauty" or feeling a sense of cleanliness and freshness or comfort in the mouth but the brain pays immediate attention to long term financial and logical consequences

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ave View Post
    It isn't really my intent to "pitch" if it's what I do lol. Usually I'll propose my ideas and hope that others will see the appeal in the idea itself, rather than have them focus on my discourse.
    LIE's ability to connect the dots shows up in most of their written and verbal communication because content is usually well structured, logical and easy to follow; being able to move, ad hoc, the focus of an audience to a targetted idea is a real strength. Again, some are better at it than others but on average, LIEs tend to be the best at explaining complex concepts to the uninformed even though the ideas can be faulty.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    keep your sarcasm for reddit, here is meant the reason which is not immediately and predominantly related to "beauty" or feeling a sense of cleanliness and freshness or comfort in the mouth but the brain pays immediate attention to long term financial and logical consequences
    Hence my answer. Since my Ni is 1d and my Te unvalued I let my teeth rot so I can pay extra cash to my dentist <3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    LIE's ability to connect the dots shows up in most of their written and verbal communication because content is usually well structured, logical and easy to follow; being able to move, ad hoc, the focus of an audience to a targetted idea is a real strength. Again, some are better at it than others but on average, LIEs tend to be the best at explaining complex concepts to the uninformed even though the ideas can be faulty.

    a.k.a. I/O
    Most people at the place I work and university would agree with this, there is however one particular ESE who believes I get angry too soon when faced with too many questions or suggestions which point towards "outside of topic"
    For example, in her opinion, when I want to go from X to Y and have a plan for this, it usually makes me angry if someone keeps suggesting : why are you going to Y? Why did you start from X? Why not go to Z? Why do you want to go at all?
    Which are the questions this particular ESE asks a lot
    It's not comfortable for me to keep pausing my process to answer these questions to someone who is constantly making seemingly unrelated suggestions

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    Quote Originally Posted by Number 9 large View Post
    Hence my answer. Since my Ni is 1d and my Te unvalued I let my teeth rot so I can pay extra cash to my dentist <3
    For SLE, Ni is quite weak and as you mentioned, Te unvalued, therefore I understand that it will be difficult to grasp the idea of a "sequence in the thought process prior to a decision"

    For me as a child it was an exercise. Would try to go as far back from Z as possible. Why am I here? What did I think to decide to come here? What did I think to think in order to make a decision to come here? Until for example I would find a funny connection. "Mom gave me a candy so now I am at my aunt's house"
    That might have to do with Te since it's an algorithm.

    There is an idea however, that static types are more inclined to develop habits such as brushing teeth at a certain time every night. There is no evidence on this. Maybe you might care to make yourself useful and explain that a bit? (Your thought process)
    Last edited by Zero; 05-22-2020 at 12:42 PM. Reason: Clarifying

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    For SLE, Ni is quite weak and as you mentioned, Te unvalued, therefore I understand that it will be difficult to grasp the idea of a "sequence in the thought process prior to a decision"

    For me as a child it was an exercise. Would try to go as far back from Z as possible. Why am I here? What did I think to decide to come here? What did I think to think in order to make a decision to come here? Until for example I would find a funny connection. "Mom gave me a candy so now I am at my aunt's house"
    That might have to do with Te since it's an algorithm.

    There is an idea however, that static types are more inclined to developing habits such as brushing teeth at a certain time every night. There is no evidence on this. Maybe you might care to make yourself useful and explain that a bit?
    Make myself useful? You are the moron who thinks that brushing your teeth to avoid going to the dentist which costs money, (o rlly?) Makes you LIE. If youre LIE you must be the dumbest mfkin LIE ive ever seen
    ~ ESTP ~ SLE ~ ESTp ~ Self-Pres 7w8 ~ Sp/Sx ~ Fire Element ~ Aries Sign ~ Beta Quadra ~ Gryffindor House ~ Summer Season ~ SLUEN ~

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    Quote Originally Posted by Number 9 large View Post
    Make myself useful? You are the moron who thinks that brushing your teeth to avoid going to the dentist which costs money, (o rlly?) Makes you LIE. If youre LIE you must be the dumbest mfkin LIE ive ever seen
    I would suggest that you learn some manners before enlightening us with your ideas on the forum any further. The point of forums is sharing ideas and it doesn't seem like you have been able to make yourself useful to your fullest potential in that sense. That's if you value yourself of course.

    Si and Se (but specially Si) would care a lot about matters of beauty and comfort (feeling of freshness and cleanliness in the mouth/ white beautiful teeth). That is for sure, for them, of higher priority in their minds than it is for me when deciding to brush the teeth.

    That is of course not to say that I don't care about beauty and comfort but the predominant and primary reason which comes to my mind when I want to motivate myself to get up and brush my teeth is to avoid visiting a dentist because I generally hate dentists and they charge too much. And then there is the thought "I want to smell nice as well"

    I have heard an SLI say: I can't tolerate the feeling of uncleanliness in my mouth

    That is basically related to Si and types with strong Si might care about that more than they care about the money or the future consequences.

    It wouldn't be a surprise if that is in fact an LIE thing because it is both Te (an objective reason) and Ni (a consequence in the future)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    ....It's not comfortable for me to keep pausing my process to answer these questions to someone who is constantly making seemingly unrelated suggestions
    This tunnel vision, which ESEs can also have in spades, keeps Ejs on task but makes them rather combative at times. When I used to see two Ejs going at it, I likened it to two people sword-fighting with dunce caps - the caps signifying the progressive narrowing of vision.
    a.k.a. I/O

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