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Thread: What is your experience in benefactor-beneficiary relationships?

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    Lightbulb What is your experience in benefactor-beneficiary relationships?

    What are your experiences as an ILI (INTp) or EII (INFj) with your benef.? I thought I was dating an IEI until I read about benefit relationships. I wish I could share more about this without not coming across as an arrogant ass. Even if I'm dating one, EIIs are still generally despisable.

    What are your anecdotal experiences as benefactor or beneficiary (other types)?



    Valentina Meged, Anatoly Ovcharov

    Beneficiary experiences activation in the presence of benefactor, tries to help him, to do something. He understands the needs of his partner very well, but reciprocity exists only in the beginning. Over time the harmony in these relations breaks down for the reason that benefactor is dismissive of the arguments and conclusions of beneficiary, and even tries to impose his own point of view and control his behavior. However, beneficiary feels that it is difficult for him to refuse in anything for such an admirable, authoritative partner. This inequality in future may lead to arguments, at which time the beneficiary will wish to distance from the benefactor.
    The benefactor perceives his partner as someone who needs his protection, patronage, and advice. He appeals to the desire of the beneficiary to understand him and help him in difficult situations, but from his point of view the assistance is not effective, thus he involuntarily underestimates the abilities of beneficiary or starts increasing his demands. The benefactor can partially take on the execution of responsibilities/work, but over time he becomes tired on this and loses interest in his partner. Benefactor may feel irritation because he is unable to understand the requests and needs of the beneficiary. Beneficiary, in turn, trying to reach an understanding, can begin to over-dramatize the situation. He feels that the benefactor is not considering his interests and may make attempts to re-educate his partner, but this proves to be useless. The benefactor still does not understand what was wanted of him.
    The matter can end with break up of relations if the beneficiary does not accept his role and continues finding faults with the benefactor instead of simply helping him accomplish common tasks or projects. Mutual work is what unites this pair, in this case the relationship becomes stimulating and productive.


    I.D. Vaisband, publications on Socionics
    The beneficiary perceives any grumbling on part of the benefactor as a signal to action. However, to carry it out the beneficiary must gain distance from the benefactor. In a family situation this is difficult, which strains the relationship. The benefactor feels that without him the beneficiary won't make it, while beneficiary finds it impossible to leave such an outstanding person that he perceives benefactor to be. The benefactor activates the beneficiary, but to realize this momentum the beneficiary must spend some time away from him. These relations generate some of the most romantic love stories: partners agree and grow close, disagree and come apart, find that they can't live without each other, but neither can they be with each other. This doesn't make for the most successful marriages. One partner called the benefactor uses his "creative" function to activate the weak function of beneficiary. However, good reverse feedback does not exist in these relations, since both strong functions of beneficiary have no effect on the benefactor. This mechanism dictates the nature of these relations: everything that beneficiary says or does, the benefactor doesn't see as very important and significant, the beneficiary, in contrast, sees the benefactor as a very significant person. The request is impossible not to fulfill: it received by beneficiary's weak function that itself is unable to critically evaluate the information. Therefore, it is put into action without careful evaluation and without any resistance. The benefactor is not inclined to give much recognition to the beneficiary, seeing him as a weaker partner, so he tends to periodically patronize the beneficiary, order him around, attempt to teach him. Naturally, on occasion, beneficiary will try to distance from the benefactor. In a family, these conditions can be satisfied only if the beneficiary is actively involved in some activities or hobbies outside of home, he can then transmit the energy he has received from the benefactor onto his activities. If the beneficiary is not involved in any such activities, the likelihood of conflicts in such union increases.


    O.B. Slinko, "The key to heart - Socionics"
    One partner acts as a transmitter of social request [benefactor], the second - as its receiver [beneficiary]. The beneficiary is at a higher level of social development than the benefactor, however, in these relations he is assigned a subordinate role. The benefactor seems interesting, significant, sometimes even unapproachable, and at the same time the beneficiary feels that he understands benefactor's concerns and human flaws. The benefactor is as if always asking or requesting something from the beneficiary, the beneficiary as if owes something to the benefactor, he perfectly picks up on the position of the benefactor. Benefactor, however, does not fully hear the beneficiary and does not look into his problems: it seems that the beneficiary will somehow manage on his own and arrange his life in any case. To fulfill the social order, the beneficiary must get away from the direct influence of the benefactor. Therefore, in these relations the beneficiary will periodically put up some resistance and grumble at the benefactor in order to distance. Nevertheless, this kind of "disloyalty" has almost no psychological effect on the benefactor. These relations are distinguished by their emotional warmth, making benefit relations marriages to be quite common. In such families, both partners end up feeling some pressure: the benefactor because he or she willingly ends up taking the main share of responsibilities for both on his or her shoulders, and beneficiary from the constant psychological pressuring coming from his partner.


    R.K. Sedih, "Informational psychoanalysis"
    This interaction we shall analyze as a combination of activity and quasi-identity. Ego - Id plus Superid. The similar element spurs a surge of activity in the individual. In this way benefactors are similar to one's activity partners.
    C/O-request

    Quasi-identical component brings the possibility of mutual learning, but simultaneously there are difficulties in trying to convince your benefactor, prove something to him, or adopt his point of view. This sometimes leads to explicit or implicit long-standing arguments and disputes. These attempts, however, are not completely useless, because the partners do learn a lot from each other, but often still don't manage to reach a consensus. This often makes close proximity one-on-one communication between them rather tiresome and tedious. The component of activation can make the partners seem very attractive to each other after only minimal interaction. Following this, the partners get to know each other, become closer, which prompts discussions, during which they eventually grow tired of one another, temporarily part, then, after getting some rest, come together again. If you don't allow yourself to argue until losing your voice, the appeal of this interaction can persist for a long time. However, if you don't restrain yourself, antipathies may arise instead of sympathies. Especially dangerous is the development of such situation in marriage, because here communication happens on very close distances thus partners may attempt to persuade each other with great fervor and stubbornness. It is not necessary for negative feelings to arise. The couple can find an outlet for the excess energy that is released by investing it into activities outside their union.
    For example I know a family where the wife is SEI and the husband is LSI. Over thirty years of living together they have done a great deal of social work. The husband, who is a biologist by profession but working school teacher, has organized more than sixty expeditions with his students and helped found the nation's largest museum of biology. His wife of many years in addition to her regular job was also the head of women's council at a large organization and led an embroidery club. I must say that there were plenty of problems in this family. These conflicts were due to the fact that they were both sensing types. Their tastes in clothes and food did not match, neither was there agreement on how to conduct financial affairs of the family, and so on. Realizing that after decades of living together trying to prove anything to each other is useless, they, nevertheless, from time to time could not refrain from periodically quarreling.


    Laima Stankevichyute "Intertype relations"

    Those whose first love is their benefactor usually spend a long time as friends and later end up exchanging the vows. These relations make for some of the most romantic love stories, full of passion and other emotions. However, this romance does not last long, because after marriage more confusion starts. Mostly these aren't some major scandals on matters of great importance, however, the daily life becomes colored by persistent discontent. To the benefactor it seems that the beneficiary is always doing something wrong, and that it can be done better. Benefactor sees the beneficiary as dependent, spoiled, poorly adapted to life in some way - it seems that without him the beneficiary will be lost. So he spends his time demanding, teaching, explaining, while the beneficiary keeps trying. At the beginning of their acquaintance, the beneficiary feels proud and happy to have such an admirable person associate with him. From the standpoint of beneficiary, the benefactor is only lacking one small thing to reach his ideal, and this small thing the beneficiary tries to fill. However, it seems to him that he can never please the benefactor, that he is constantly dissatisfied with something. In fact, this is not the case. Just that the beneficiary does not hear the words of support for him. In all corrective comments and even in simple questions he imagines a reproach. Thus people in these relations often start fighting seemingly over nothing. The relationship becomes less pleasant, however, these types rarely part. The benefactor feels that the beneficiary will be quite lost without him, so he cannot leave. Beneficiary cannot leave because it is impossible to leave such an admirable, superior person as the benefactor. Life in such a family is usually complicated. It becomes impossible to perform even the most basic household work together. Therefore, in such families all household problems usually fall to one of the partners. Most often they are placed on the beneficiary. But there are families where beneficiary stops doing anything and finds another sphere of interest, for example, devotes extra time for work and business trips, gets new hobbies, spends more time outside of home gardening, repairs car in the garage, that is, becomes engaged only in those activities where the benefactor has no control over him. Many couples that break up then reform again, after some time, are often in these type of relations.


    A.V. Bukalov, G. Boiko, "Why Saddam Hussein made a mistake, or what is Socionics"
    Relations of benefit function as a conduit for transfer of social experience, socially significant information, between the quadra. This is needed for progress of society. Interestingly, in this pair both partners greatly admire each other. The beneficiary sees the benefactor as a person of great interest, while benefactor is delighted with beneficiary's ability to do things that he is not able to do. However, there is an asymmetry of perception: the benefactor is listened to, but the beneficiary is perceived as an interesting person, but not convincing enough. Thus the benefactor will try to help the beneficiary, try to explain something to him. In general, such relations are pleasant and friendly. However, excessive stimulation of the beneficiary prompts him to distance from the benefactor. Beneficiary does this to not get distracted from fulfilling already set objectives. Benefactor may become genuinely surprised by such behavior: "Where did he go? Why did he distance/leave?" From social point of view, relations of benefit are very important, because together with relations of supervision they enable not only transfer of information, but also create ties between quadra, thus forming rings of social progress.

    V.V. Gulenko, A.V. Molodtsev, "Introduction to socionics"
    These relations are asymmetric: first partner relates to the second not in the same way as the later relates to the first. First partner, who is called request transmitter, or benefactor, looks at the second partner, called beneficiary, as someone who is a rank lower, underestimating him. The second partner, on the contrary, thinks that the other partner is an interesting, meaningful person, overestimating him at first.
    Beneficiary can become very fond of benefactor and admire his behavior, demeanor, ability to easily do that to which the beneficiary aspires, the style of his thoughts, his creative approach. In presence of benefactor, beneficiary unwittingly begins to try to win his favor, to please him, for some unknown reasons to himself. This starts with little things and then progresses more and more. From aside it looks as if the beneficiary is trying to somehow justify himself to the benefactor.
    At the same time there is something in behavior of benefactor that the beneficiary finds irritating. Those features that the benefactor demonstratively puts forward to attract attention and look good in public view seep into the subconscious of the beneficiary and awaken a vague desire to remove the conditions that make the benefactor act so unnaturally. The beneficiary may also be unaware what is it exactly that he is supposed to do? The issued request is not individual, but social in nature i.e. it encompasses problems of the groups of people to which this pair belongs.
    From aside, relations of benefit look smooth and conflict-free. Initiator of these relations is almost always the benefactor. Beneficiary feels that deep inside the benefactor is positively predisposed towards him. The benefactor tries to encourage and support the beneficiary in any way possible. Reciprocating feedback only happens at initial stages. Further attempts to establish relations on equal conditions are not successful, the reverse connection does not get any better. The benefactor, alas, does not hear the beneficiary. As a consequence of this, beneficiary moves away and tries to keep distance from the benefactor, sometimes may even start to pick on him by way on his base function which is much weaker in benefactor. Thus, these relations can be called a relations of patronage/protection in the absence of reciprocate action. Over time, the beneficiary may begin to completely disregard the benefactor. This happens when request has been fully understood as a social one.


    Ekaterina Filatova "Art of understanding yourself and others"
    These relations alike relations of audit are asymmetrical. One partner - the benefactor - activates the weak 4th function of the beneficiary. Good feedback is not here, since both strong functions of beneficiary do not affect the benefactor.
    This mechanism sets the nature of relations: everything that the beneficiary says and does, does not seem as significant to the benefactor, while the benefactor is perceived as a very substantial person in the sphere of benefactor's 2nd function (it is from here that the request is sent). The request is impossible not to carry out because it is picked up by beneficiary's weak 4th function that itself is unable to critically evaluate the information.
    A group of four people comprising single ring of benefit can very actively solve various creative problems. Especially effective is a group of eight people, which includes two parallel rings and four dual pairs. Here all participants are mobilized which increased their mental activity, but at the same time they do not become tired because duals support one another.

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    The Chosen Prophet. Braingel's Avatar
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    Direct illustration of me and my beneficiary (IEI-LII): https://qr.ae/pGkj4O That is how it looks, but I also am special case with specific circumstance, so it is more an extremity, and he is more than double my age.
    I am in my head; not society.

    Yes, that is who I am, hence the bold am.​ Also, a brain angel. (But Zelda's incarnate too).


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    Of all the Si-subtypes, SEI-Si is the one I have most trouble getting along with, although I find them very attractive. I feel limited in how deep our communication can get, because they easily feel smothered by the way I interact with them and how I can fix that is beyond me. SEI-Fes like me more than SEI-Sis do for reasons I don’t comprehend. My best friend for some time was SEI-Fe. She was very, very private and although she was very Fe-expressive, I never felt like I knew who she really was. A couple SEI-Fe guys have shown interest in me and I’ve had a crush or two of the type, but...their creative Fe is really disorienting to me, and I am not nearly good enough at Ti to keep them interested.

    ILI-Ni men can be quite dashing in the stereotypical tall, dark, and handsome sort of way, but their deafness and indifference to my ego functions is a killjoy. ILI-Te men are...kind of freaking intimidating. They are, of course, incisively intelligent and bring realism to my quixotic flights of fancy, but having a mom of the type I know a relationship with an ILI-Te would not be optimal for either party.

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    My dad was my beneficiary. Sometimes what I said blew him away and really impressed him when to me- I was just being my dorky self. I am the same way with ESIs I've noticed- sometimes what they say is so soul-provoking I get kind of jealous. You also follow your benefactor around. LIIs have followed me around before and I got excited when ESIs were around. The excitement is often one sided or not really that equal though. You often naturally 'look down' on your beneficiary even when you try not to. Or even when you know it's technically not morally right to 'look down' on anybody.

    What's interesting me though is your beneficiary probably morally corrects you more than your benefactor. At least in my experience it's been this way. I've wondered why this was or if it's only specific to the ESI-IEI-LII dynamic. I've chastised a lot of ESIs before and kind of pointed out what they were doing wrong and I've noticed LIIs will go on these tirades where they chastise me as well. I wonder why this is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BandD View Post
    My dad was my beneficiary. Sometimes what I said blew him away and really impressed him when to me- I was just being my dorky self. I am the same way with ESIs I've noticed- sometimes what they say is so soul-provoking I get kind of jealous. You also follow your benefactor around. LIIs have followed me around before and I got excited when ESIs were around. The excitement is often one sided or not really that equal though. You often naturally 'look down' on your beneficiary even when you try not to. Or even when you know it's technically not morally right to 'look down' on anybody.

    What's interesting me though is your beneficiary probably morally corrects you more than your benefactor. At least in my experience it's been this way. I've wondered why this was or if it's only specific to the ESI-IEI-LII dynamic. I've chastised a lot of ESIs before and kind of pointed out what they were doing wrong and I've noticed LIIs will go on these tirades where they chastise me as well. I wonder why this is.
    I’ve had a few experiences with ESI, and I do not care fir most of them, but a few things a few have said was very wise... Most have been unhealthful ESI, and Sx6
    I am in my head; not society.

    Yes, that is who I am, hence the bold am.​ Also, a brain angel. (But Zelda's incarnate too).


    My thoughts align with action to succeed what needs…


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    I have had that experience with LII though, exactly what you said
    I am in my head; not society.

    Yes, that is who I am, hence the bold am.​ Also, a brain angel. (But Zelda's incarnate too).


    My thoughts align with action to succeed what needs…


    Dragons:

    Babies, click them to make them grow up into Kara’s Dragon Museum





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    I feel really dumb around ESIs and LIIs. Maybe ok around the more chatty ESIs. My brain switches off, I think I don’t feel relaxed enough or I need a bit more simple/silly conversation to inspire me to think of something to say. However, in my whole life time I would like to get to know these types more as I find them both intriguing.

    I have enjoyed talking to these types before in a nightclub setting. Talking about the music or chatting in the smoking area. I knew these people casually, talking with them did make the night more interesting.
    Last edited by Bethany; 07-18-2021 at 05:52 PM.

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    Not great
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    I used to be neutral towards my benefactors but lately I have started noticing some behaviors I am...not a fan of. Namely the arrogance of lead Ni to assume they know practically everything (combined with them looking down on my weak Te; assuming I'm more inept than I really might be). Nothing I say goes through, they discard half of what I say anyway because Ne ignoring types don't understand the depth Ne is conveying to begin with. What I am actually communicating to them is lost and they think I am a poor child who doesn't understand anything, even herself.

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    Another disadvantageous type of relation but not so bad as the supervision relation. In this case the benefactor if of higher psychological status, in the beginning the beneficiary gives the benefactor the same vibe of an activity relation and likewise the benefactor gives the beneficiary the vibe of a dual because of the creative function which is the same as the beneficiary's suggestive. What ends up happening is that the benefactor may end up frustrated for not receiving any information on their suggestive (which is the beneficiary polr) and then the benefactor begins using the suggestive in an attempt of 'dual-seeking', which leaves the beneficiary very uncomfortable and taking it as a hostile move from the benefactor.

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    I had an ESI friend at uni who I would like to get back in touch with. I remember giving her advice or maybe it was more that I comforted her. I trusted her and I enjoyed her company. As for LII, in real life I haven't known too many. My initial reaction would be to say I find them a bit too robotic or something and that they make me feel uncomfortable but I've been mulling it over and it's not that simple. I did have an LII sort of friend for a while. We were part of the same friendship group and went to parties together. In a group setting I remember talking to him, admiring him and when I look back I remember some lovely moments where he had a lovely energy. I would get back in touch with him again, but maybe only in group settings. He invited people to his place a lot which was nice. I always thought of him as being a nice kid. I remember feeling awkward with him once but not being sure why, he just seemed so clever or something.

    Since then I've come across some more LIIs, some have made me feel a bit too awkward but not all. There was an LII I found difficult to work with. I was tired all the time and found it very difficult to do simple things at work sometimes and couldn't deal with her being a perfectionist and also her clever style of small-talk. Well, it turns out she had a lot of problems and she was probably more similar to me than I realised.

    I've been line-managed by ESIs which was ok for a while. We didn't talk much outside of meetings. With the most recent we were always polite and made a little bit of small talk. She told me once in a review that I brought 'a nice vibe to the team'. I liked that she noticed that and I got the impression she genuinely appreciated me being around even though we hardly spoke. I think I appreciated her being around too, though maybe more as an after-thought.

    Oh I've also had some problems with ESIs before. I had an ESI room mate who had mental health problems and seemed really paranoid about her colleagues and would go silent on me when there was something she wasn't happy about in the flat. When I said 'hi' she would grunt loudly and that's it, which was kinda intimidating. I didn't notice when she missed paying the rent once and I got really upset that she hadn't told me about it. I also had an ESI male friend once. He talked a lot to me about our mutual SEI friend who he liked and I felt a bit stuck in the middle and I don't think I really trusted his version of events. I remember him getting annoyed because I told her something he said when I was drunk and he got mad at me. I was really sort of surprised at myself that I had done that but also annoyed with him for lashing out at me. A few times, I got the impression he was playing games with me, and perhaps was attracted to me or wanted me to be attracted to him. I also knew another ESI who was cool to party with but I think in the end there wasn't enough of a natural click.

    Sorry for the long-winded-ness. I think these friendships have potential, even if they're on the side-lines. IJs can be great company and I think perhaps these friendships can work when there is a natural feeling of trust. It's an interesting type of trust, instinctive but not strong necessarily.
    Last edited by Bethany; 07-23-2021 at 06:35 PM.

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    LIEs give advice which Te ruins & ESEs are socially hyperactive people pleasing & it sucks.

    That's been my experience. I'm sure they're awesome people otherwise, man

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    Maybe it's just me, or the dynamic between the types, but I don't necessarily 'look down' on SLIs. I imagine my tone is somewhat avuncular sounding to them at times. But overall their practical knowledge and know-how is hard to deny. Even when they come across as inept or spellbound, they command respect in specific areas.

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    I enjoy ILEs company but they can start making fun of me in a way where I can start to get annoyed.


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    I've had a good friend who was my beneficiary (ILI). It started off as described, we were both quite interested in how the other function - she'd ask me questions and seemed genuinely impressed by me which helped my pride, of course. And I thought she's not like most people I've talked to, so I felt the pull to talk more.

    We became pretty close and I always felt this weird interest in how she expressed herself, through writing - sometimes it may even be about me: I think your beneficiaries may flatter you more than any other type, from my experience at least. But eventually, we kept getting into arguments because I couldn't help feeling like she was too apathetic and non-reactive when I feel upset, and when I bring it up, her reaction would make me even more annoyed because it seemed like she was deliberately acting indifferent when I was venting to her.

    From her perspective, however, I seemed emotionally pressuring to her and she felt stressed whenever we fought due to this subconscious expectation for her to be emotive in response to me. I think we were quite literally a living example of broken benefit relationships. I really wanted to preserve it, but I couldn't stop feeling frustrated with her despite her inability to respond favourably (from my viewpoint) - some things she said were pretty insensitive and crude, but in typical Fi HA fashion she'd say she was simply being honest and I should just accept her emotions. Of course, I wanted to, but it seemed really difficult for me to naturally be cool with the way she expressed herself.

    I don't think either of us were at fault for the broken friendship - we've tried everything we could think of to salvage it. The beneficiary might try to adjust themselves to 'please' the benefactor, but usually it doesn't work in the long run.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hux View Post
    ...... my beneficiary (ILI)...... I couldn't help feeling like she was too apathetic and non-reactive when I feel upset, and when I bring it up, her reaction would make me even more annoyed because it seemed like she was deliberately acting indifferent when I was venting to her......
    LSIs seem to erupt more than vent; they keep things under wraps until pressure builds to excess. Although ILIs can get rather dramatic and combative themselves, they tend to look at eruptions from others as assaults on their personal spaces so they would likely raise drawbridges until things settle down. However, there are potentially bigger dividing wedges between these two types than just emotional responses.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    I haven’t been that close to any LSI honestly…we kind of pass on by each other. I would actually like to experience Benifit relationships for the hell of it. I have had more interactions with EII and yeah…it can be unbalanced to say the least. I have often felt like I had to work more in the relationship. Though, the more balanced an EII is, the least extreme aspect of the uneven-ness played out. I think that happens with most types though.

    I’ll keep patrolling the field and give feedback if I get close to one.

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    @MissDucki Hello there, LSI here~
    I'm not sure if I have any close SEI friends - one of my friends could be SEI, but I'm on the fence for her typing between the Si bases. I have a few SEI acquaintances, though, and we could get along on the surface but I always had the sense that they were internally judging me as less capable (even before I knew socionics) -- it's not that they look down on me, I just had the sense that they saw through my social 'helplessness' sometimes

    Having experienced benefit relationships I must say, it isn't nice for the beneficiary in the long run lol. But if you communicate in doses it could be nice

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    Rebelondeck's Avatar
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    SEIs seem to prefer people with exploratory or esoteric intellects even though they tend to be more physical and have narrow interests. They may occasionally find LSIs useful but predictability seems to bore them, and both can be too bottled up or into themselves or their interests to be inspirational to one another. I can't see them easily agreeing on any goals, methods or measures of success without a mediator.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    The Evening and the Morning Star Eudaimonia's Avatar
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    I think EIE-SEE has a really good chance of working. If I wasn't with my dual I would probably choose SEE.


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    Baqer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eudaimonia View Post
    I enjoy ILEs company but they can start making fun of me in a way where I can start to get annoyed.
    We're not making fun of you, we're simply pointing out your flaws for fun.

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