Armtage, I think those things are associated with Fi, but are not Fi.Originally Posted by Armitage
In my book, Fi is "making value judgements on the basis of individual self-interest", which is distinguished from Fe, which is "making value judgements on the basis of group interests".
Identifying ESIs:
1. Talk to them for a short time. If they tell you almost immediately that you have no idea what they are thinking, then they are probably ESI.
2. Make a date with them a week from now. If they cancel an hour before the date, then they are definitely ESI.
3. Ask them about their plans for retirement. If they have no plans and no retirement, they are probably ESI, but IEI is also possible.
Yes. It's unavoidable human condition but also makes human interactions less boring, because every subconscious thing you say/think/do can be interpreted/misinterpreted in so many ways by others and creates unimaginable consequences
For me it is. But in beta's eyes it's less than true devotion if you don't help them doing something because you feel Fi/morally it's problematic, because they would stand by you even if you do something that's not entirely legit in Fi standard. Te/Fi V.S. Ti/Fe difference creates huge misunderstandings about each other's motives.
Did you just project feelings on me about this matter? I think amusement would be a more fitting one.
Fi can mean individual moral stance or self-interest, and gamma Fi is always interpreted as the latter. But because of gamma's desire for complete freedom I think gamma Fi actually helped creating a lot of good/peace/open communications in the world, e.g. Gorbachev and some other gamma leaders did quite incredible self-sacrificing acts that didn't make sense in power grabbing games of the political arena (I don't think they are just doing this for reputation, but genuinely believed that it will bring the world to a better place)
Hmm, it's not projecting because I don't suppress my feelings. I accept them and process them. Sometimes labelling it as amusement is a deflection from acknowledging emotions, but I may have given you too much credit, it could also be immaturity.
I'm meddling too much, though. I should learn when to hold my tongue more. I don't even know you. Maybe that part is my own immaturity/poor judgment.
Exactly.
Since we don't even know you, how about you introduce yourself to us? I'm looking forward to meeting a true SLE gentleman or -woman, so please open up and tell us who @Northstar is, and what he/she/they desires deep down?
Sorry I don't have an interest in getting to know you, and I never said I'm a gentleman.
That's okay, @Northstar, and I understand that you aren't a gentleman. It just means that I have yet to meet one.
All I can think of is Lucifer Morningstar: "What do you desire?" I'd post a meme, but I'm on mobile, so nah. Too much of a pain. I'll leave it to the imagination.
SLE sees bad talks about SLE in the thread and feels defensive
SLE attacks!
ESI counter-attacks!
After some talk ESI and LIE want to understand SLE more and use Fi to express good will
SLE interprets that as telling him what to do, feeling he's on the losing side, attacks!
I think FiTe good will and explanations do not sound genuine to TiFe users. I'm guessing you need to start an actual fight (here it's verbal) and then during the fight you express your character and real attitude through Fe subconscious and then they will perceive it as genuine good will, sort of like every action movie ever
Hmm. Identifying ESIs...
Sometimes self-critical without actually having low self-esteem.
Formula for this:
Fi base - authenticity, bluntness
Si demonstrative, Se Creative - growth and self-improvement oriented
Negativist
I have had my tendency to carelessly/casually bring up my own flaws mistaken for insecurity. In reality, my negativist nature is introspecting and finding things that need to be improved according to Fi values, due to Se-like striving for growth. So, basically, what is seen as insecurity is really just being real, honest, and humble...balancing things out. "I I also expect much from myself and hold myself accountable."
He's our local viking, shy E9 LSI.Mb the only active LSI man on this not so popular forum, including cause Ne nature of Socionics opposes their preferences. Try don't hurt his feelings, to do not leave us without his entertaining presence and music clips flooding.
"gentlemen" seems live somewhere in England as the term relates to that landlords aristocracy with some centuries of peasants robbing by these nice families. I'm not sure some of them honors this place by their attention.
> It just means that I have yet to meet one.
Yes. We'd could do a firework when this will happen.
Yeah, fuck you too. None of the real life gammas I know try to tell me what I'm thinking and what my feelings about things are.
Says the shy supposed LSE who has never shared a single video clip of himself.He's our local viking, shy E9 LSI.
"gentlemen" seems live somewhere in England as the term relates to that landlords aristocracy with some centuries of peasants robbing by these nice families. I'm not sure some of them honors this place by their attention.
> It just means that I have yet to meet one.
Yes. We'd could do a firework when this will happen.
...And yet asks everyone else to "make the video".
Let's all calm down everyone. I'm not telling anyone what they're thinking or should be feeling, which is why I asked Northstar to tell us himself instead. And no-one is obliged to do so, I sure am not going to pressure anyone into doing so. It's everyone's free choice to tell about themselves or not.
Nor is it my intent to hurt anyone's feelings, but I'd think that you underestimate Northstar if you believe that he would be hurt by anything I have said, @Sol. Instead I merely restated what he said himself and tried to emphasize my original point that I do not yet know any such gentlemen. That far from means, however, that I do not like SLEs. As I mentioned before, I get along greatly with the SLE-Se brother of a friend of mine.
My point was and is simply that I don't expect most SLEs to desire being door-opening valets to their wives like chivalry prescribes. Instead the SLEs I know show their affection to their loved ones by protecting them from danger.
@Northstar, knowing Vis he didn't mean any harm with his quip, instead what I get from him is that he tried to memefy the situation into a Pokémon battle, in order to defuse the tension with humour. It's just the sort of humour that might be particular to NTs, so it didn't really work as well. But I am positive that he had no intention of telling you what you think or feel, because he knows that feelings are very personal, right @Vis?
Let's just all calm down and go back to our lives, because in the same time a solid workout or an exam assignment could be done.
God, I'm too obsessed with the Witcher. Adding "Hmm" in a pseudo-batman Geralt voice after just about anything is funny to me.
This is going to end up bad, I'll laugh at this meme in my head at an inappropriate time and someone will think I am laughing at them.
"You have a very lovely neck.....like a...goose...guzzling..." just what the fuck...LOL...I'm going to try this flirtation on my LIE and see if it works.
Oh, it wasn't just me? Now I want to start a trend. Just send type me videos of cats every time anyone at all asks for a type me video.
At least now this thread will be killed by my humor instead of a fight.
There was a part of joke.
Though, I have some experience with him and other E9s. They seem ok, gather emotions and then "boom".
P.S. Check Enneagram E9, - the most introverted introverts. And also are dreamy enough to buy Gulenko's heretical nonsense seriously because he mentioned (without good basis) their pairs as duals, where @asterr is another his E9 victim with nonsense typing as IEI (while having Fi type). @Northstar understood his LSI correctly initially and then... happened damned heretic Gulenko.
Regarding people who tell you "send videos" so they can retype you - notice it's a typing method that makes it an impasse "your word against mine" (the exact same position you're starting from prior to sharing a video) while exposing your RL self. Clearly no ill intentions there at all, right? Lol. Then again, maybe he's just a weirdo who wants it for his creepy porn stash.
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Last edited by Ave; 02-07-2022 at 08:31 AM.
So LSE can be funny telling joke when LSI can be E9 shy
Last edited by Tarnished; 02-07-2022 at 04:41 AM.
Haha I was being too much of a smartass to actually help that situation. By now I've gotten used to beta ST's roughness, and as long as we don't kill each other I'd consider it being playful
ESI is angry that ur not working hard enough, LSI is angry that ur stupid and dragging him down. EII is not as assertive as ESI. ESI can be not assertive but thats until they are. they get to that point faster and are more aggressive in their communication and body language.
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What would you have done in my position when the apparent SLE-Se guy started insisting on you lending him a hundred bucks, Bethany?
Sorry, but you presume to understand my character while you obviously don't. I'm don't gather up pent-up emotions, irritation and anger is immediately vented and then dissipates. I don't buy Gulenko, his typings are just as bad as anyone else's (that includes you), I did the Gulenko paid typing thing fully to annoy a few people here who were Gulenko acolytes and claimed I had mistyped myself and Gulenko would see through my act. The funny thing is that he typed me the same in his system that I had done on my own. That hilariousness was worth throwing a few bucks in the toilet.There was a part of joke.
Though, I have some experience with him and other E9s. They seem ok, gather emotions and then "boom".
P.S. Check Enneagram E9, - the most introverted introverts. And also are dreamy enough to buy Gulenko's heretical nonsense seriously because he mentioned (without good basis) their pairs as duals, where @asterr is another his E9 victim with nonsense typing as IEI (while having Fi type). @Northstar understood his LSI correctly initially and then... happened damned heretic Gulenko.
That being said, all typologies are more or less wrong and don't describe the complexity of person. Reality is just always more messy than the simplification of systems and models. However, I simply don't agree that i'm J or rational type, my way of working is and has always been completely haphazard, jumping from one task to another at high frequency and very high variability in energy levels. I'm not stable in output or mood.
If you insist in typing me as an introvert, I think MBTI ISTP is the typing I've always found comfortably correct in its simplicity. Enneagram 9 I have never identified with, conflict avoidance and peacemaking is truly far off since from the very beginning of my life I've always been engaged in fights and conflicts regularly, particularily related to (in)subordination.
I haven’t read the post, soz. Were you dating them? I don’t think I’d be comfortable lending someone money..I don’t even trust my SEE sister with that haha.
once an ESI got mad with me because they bought me a cheap dinner..and I waited a couple of days before paying them back..that’s lame.
ok I just read one of the posts..he sounds like a piece of work. Good riddance.
Last edited by Bethanyclaire; 02-07-2022 at 11:07 AM.
And while we’re on the subject of money..a female ESI once stole about 500 pounds off me. Thieves are gross. It taught me not to be so trusting though which is an excellent lesson to learn when it comes to money. Especially if you’re not well off.
They’ll be judging the hell out of me, and telling me that what I’m doing is grossly inappropriate or immoral.
Just kidding. Kinda.
Nah, for real, the ESIs I know are fine with me until I do something that they have an issue with, and then they’ll bring it up. A lot of the things that I do, seem to upset them in terms of me showing inappropriate behaviour, or doing something that annoys/upsets them. Something that goes against the current of their values, or what they perceive to be “correct”.
For this reason, I find it hard to actually interact with them. Our actual understanding and sense of navigation within the world is very different; they have a value system based on relations, and ethics, and I find that I am a lot more impersonal than they are by nature.
I want to make sense of things logically, in the sense of reality and connecting things logically and seeing if anything contradicts. And if I can refine things.
ESI tend to do this, but from an ethical perspective. In a way, it’s a similar concept but with a different focus and I think that is the reason why we tend to butt heads a lot.
ESI want to go the blue (Fi) route when addressing an issue, and I want to go the green (Ti) route, and that causes conflict. We can’t find a good medium, so we argue over which is best and tend to disagree on our decision making choices, and on how we solve problems.
In terms of identifying them, I usually look for those defining features within the thought process.
I also find that at times, ESI with stronger Se can come across as more defensive of their values and of their ‘code of conduct’ and how they judge relations in terms of the concrete reality. ESI-Fi tend to be more subdued and in their heads, but they will also speak up if they think that X has violated Y, or they have a strong opinion etc.
I do not suffer fools gladly.
At first I admired his strength, and I liked that he was ambitious like me, but all the pressuring soon turned unhealthy and unnerving. I felt increasingly uncomfortable and any alternatives and compromises I proposed fell on deaf man's ears. I genuinely cared and loved for him, and I believe that he loved me too in his own way, given his sadness and sense of betrayal afterwards. However, the pressure he continuously put on me, his greed, and his vindictiveness were unhealthy and hurting me.
Wow, jeez. If she was an ESI it sure shows that Socionics types aren't as black-and-white as portrayed in the descriptions. Yes, thieves are definitely gross, which is why I distrusted his insistence on my money. I'm happy to help someone in need, especially those who're close to me, but by providing them what they need, not giving them blank cheques. But he only accepted the latter, instead of the former, so his own avarice was the undoing of my trust of him.
Did you know the female ESI long and well before she took advantage of you?
I have an IEI cousin whom I'm close to, and I have dated a few IEIs (three, actually), and while it pains me to admit it, I'm just not as tough as they are.
One needs to possess an incredibly thick skin to the date the guy I fell in love with. I honestly don't know who he'll end up with, because I imagine few able to endure his aggression, despite how much one loves him. I wouldn't be surprised if his greed will lead him to date a good-looking guy in his late thirties with the money to actually ubsist his ambitions of living in Paris to become a model there. Yet before he finds someone rich enough to not mind, I think that he will break his own heart and those of who he dates many times more. And each time things break apart, he hides his feelings deeper and becomes more callused. Truly tragic, but it already showed that I'm not the one to change the course he set onto the iceberg, despite my best efforts. For me there are people who I get along better with, even if it might take time finding them, and even though I'll take time off of dating for now, in order to truly get over him and to focus on my studies.
One thing this leaves me wondering about, however, how are there people in long-term, loving relationships from different quadras, if it seems so difficult to overcome the communication issues associated with it? Probably the lacking emotional health of the guy I was dating worsened my situation, though.
I think at least date someone share the same Te/Fi value. The differeces between Te/Fi and Fe/Ti seem much harder to deal with than Ni/Se vs Ne/Si.
Knowing about Socionics somehow limit my thoughts. Now I just want a dual relationship, not others. But before that I don't even want to have romantic relationship with anyone, so it's still a step forward lol
Nope..it slowly became clear the type of person she was. No morals. She was massively paranoid and worried about her future..as she was out of work. But I was decent to her and yet she convinced herself it was ok to steal from me. She could have paid me back at any point..Some people’s morals just go right out the window when they’re stressed. Oh it’s said we act like our ‘activity partner’ when stressed btw..that or our dual.. I think maybe we act like activity partner when under heavier stress..
oh also the ESI reminded me a little of an ex-IEE friend who didn’t steal from me..but rather sponged off of me lol.
Before living with me the IEE lived with an SEI. The IEE accused the SEI of stealing from her whilst they lived together. At the time I was shocked…honestly though I think the SEI was probably too afraid to ask for more rent in case the IEE hit the roof..
sorry about what happened with the guy…when you like someone it’s hard to fully see when they’re taking advantage of you. Gas lighting is real..
Yes, ESI's activity partner, SEE can believe that what is yours is due to him. This behaviour seems common to unhealthy Se-dominants based on the stories that I heard from people on the forum. Adam once mentioned a story of two SEE parents spending the whole inheritance a Grandma had left her ESI grandchild, for instance.
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