Attacks on the Point of Least Resistance (PoLR)
Has anyone experienced this? As Fi polr when a friend or someone I'm close to do something that makes me feel unsure of the state of our relationship I feel really uneasy and uncomfortable. Does anyone know how to deal with your weakest function effectively?
In terms of conflictor: because you analyzed your relations you don't have those. To me this is just stupid not real hit at all.
In terms of supervisor: **shrinks**. OK, this was bad but you misunderstood me and I do not treat people based on whether they are logically right or wrong in the end even if I say something as things can be adapted.
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
Yeah, kinda do with Si. When somebody points out that clothing doesn't fit me right or something else about me looks weird, I want them to tell me how to fix it because I'm not even sure what's wrong or how it got that way to begin with. That or I call them a dandy and try to brush it off. Very fickle responses.
When you expose yourself to life you get polr hits. Just accept them and you will learn how to deal with it. If you avoid polr hits altogether you will not learn and if you get too exposed you will not be able to take it. So moderate exposure is best.Originally Posted by Hux
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
Ahhhhhh. The hard truth. >~<
Agree with @Tallmo . Another reason to get used to living with a bit of unease with it and having a manageable weakness of some sort (which you can still actively work on, by the way), is that you may become cringe-worthy with overdoing HA in a frantic attempt at overcompensation.
As another SLE, I actually recommend building internal solidarity through getting in the habit of taking actions that align with what feels right to you. You will know and feel more confident that you can do it over time. People who are right for you and who treat you appropriately and give you sufficient communication for how close you are, will gravitate towards you because of that. I think it's essential for everyone, but especially for Fi polrs, to have a core group of people who they can feel an inherent sense of comfort and trust with. You can then use those relationships as a standard. Ignore the rest of the interactions, because people who aren't close with you will be more fickle by definition.
That's very true, normally I just treat most people as shallow acquaintances since it is pretty hard to establish close relationships.
If you already have some close relationships then that's great! You're set then, right? You can work on deepening those until you're completely comfortable and would trust them with your life, IMO. Is there anything that's holding you back still?
Feel free to get into more detail. I am a female SLE, who is possibly older and likely more experienced with emotions than you because of it, and want to help. It can be difficult for guys (I'm assuming you are one?) to feel close to other people as easily as girls can, especially, in our culture.
Thank you! I'm actually female as well haha. Right now I don't really have those, in school it's just two slightly closer friends (EIE and LSI most likely) but we aren't as close as the friends I used to have. My current closest friend is online, eeeeek. What do you think about online friends?
What's holding me back is 1) EIE is from another class, we can't interact often, it won't benefit much and 2) with LSI we usually talk about less emotional stuff. It's not as easy to emotionally open up, since she doesn't as well.
Hmm... in girl culture it can be hard to fit in, sometimes. What are some of your experiences?
Is there anyone who you feel like you could turn to in times of need or stress really, such as family members?
Personally I think I would not be able to be completely fulfilled if I only had close friends online, but then again I am probably slightly older than you at least, which is light years in internet time.
I agree that it can be hard to fit in as a girl with Fi polr lol.
Also, personally, I have not had any very close long term friendships with EIEs or LSIs. My closest friends are SEE, LIE, IEI, ILE, ILI, SLE, maybe LII and SEI kind of. I have been close to EIEs and LSIs at times but it hasn't been terribly consistent. For some reason with those two types I always remain distant in a way even if we "get" each other and feel close when we do interact.
See, that's the kind of thing that struck me as so incredibly obvious that it wouldn't have been worth saying. Sometimes Identicals definitely do a much better job of helping each other.
Reason is a whore.
+ What Te-PoLR hits looks like for me:
For eg: An LIE acquaintance was looking for extra info on train ticket refunds. They asked me about some unusual case.
I basically rarely ever think about these kinds of practicalities unless there is an immediate need. So:
a/ it's 50:50 whether I have that info in storage somewhere,
b/ my info will be limited to my particular case or the principles I gleaned at the time,
c/ I don't have much practice thinking through the chains of consequences for this stuff. I can do it, but it's grainy bootleg 70s footage and may miss some major potential problems.
I'm perfectly capable of planning train journeys and getting refunds, I just don't... think about it, or plan how to MaXimISe dA mOnEy. I just don't, because my method is to throw something together that doesn't seem too expensive and gets me from A to B, and then leave it at 'good enough.' I make sketches, not oil portraits.
So, being put on the spot, my instinct is to briefly sift through my bank of experience, make an educated sketch of some principles that might help make the decision and spit that out. However, my sketch is not that high-res unless I've needed to deal with the problem a lot, and it usually doesn't have much to add compared to a Te-ego's efficient sift through that same info. So it feels a bit pointless, and sometimes I abbreviate the whole thing to a vague confused shrug.
I don't feel too bad about it*, but it's pretty clear that I have little to contribute to the topic -- in the form of information useful/detailed enough for them -- and that I'm frankly not going to make an effort to improve significantly. My daily trains of thoughts just don't naturally range in that area, and I have limited interest in studying The Art Of Logistics, useful as it may be. My occasional mistakes feel like an acceptable price to pay.
It's worth noting I definitely catch physical details that the LIE misses ('cause their hyper-efficiency doesn't pay attention to where the jar of salt went), so that balances things out a bit.
*sometimes a bit self-conscious about being out of my depth, for sure, or feeling like a 'comparatively incompetent person'
Reason is a whore.
Damn, that was a good Te-Polr description. I wondered once why an IEI bought a really expensive original replacement battery for her e-bike from the local bike shop but now I realize it wouldn’t occur to them on their own to look for cheaper options. Also, asking for help on practical matters that are simple to google despite perfectly good Ti understanding of things.
Just so you know, I think of IEI and ILI as wizards with Ni, so I am very happy consulting you on stuff, and it's prolly so easy for you you forget how helpful it is.
"Get a job"
Get a life!
Nobody really knows what they’re doing at that age, even ethical types... so I’d keep that in mind. @Hux
I feel 'attacked' when Fe types use emotional and verbal violence. Also when ppl ask Fe from me.
@sbbds I think I'm pretty aware... but we shall see.
Shortcomings in one's information processing system will always be and there's no getting around it; they have to be accepted so as not to diminish one's strengths. In any conflict, one must expect that one's weak points will be attacked but hopefully not by oneself. If counterattack is chosen then opponents' weaknesses will likely be assaulted and escalation usually ensues. People who have accepted their own weaknesses are in better positions to mitigate conflict and self-doubt. Mistakes can be dealt with but weaknesses in processing require workarounds because they aren't like muscles that can be strengthened; they're permanent gaps in you abilities and defences.......
a.k.a. I/O
This reminded me of a past episode with a shrink one month ago. It was our first and only (so far) appointment. Midway our session, she was trying to get more information on me and she did something I will never forget, it made me shiver with cringe and left me REALLY uncomfortable. She looks at me with the most compassionate sad eyes and posture in the world, and asked in a very emotional and calming voice "What...is hurting you?". Unfortunately that didn't help, while she may have had the best intentions, all I felt was probed for deep emotions and pain, and I was really turned off after that. I will never forget that because I was really uncomfortable with that. And I usually let things go (interaction-wise) without giving it much thought, but that shit she pulled marked me, it was disturbing.
Ah and I have Fe PoLR.
Well first off I think having an external, logic objective polr is a bit different than a feeler-y personal one. So I'm not sure I agree that with every polr its something ur insecure about necessarily but it still bites you in the ass regardless, the way a boulder falling on you is damaging to you no matter how confident you are about anything...(it might seem like the person is being 'insecure' to others tho)
Actually a therapist I had once told me (pretty accurately I think) that my problem in life was that I was TOO care-free and laid back and not stressed enough like I was supposed to be, that I needed to be me more uptight and serious and heterosexual basically - but I just wasn't and it was hard to force myself to be this way despite so many ppl trying to turn me into that way. they would say 'don't laugh at that' when an ESTp said something immature or something but I would laugh at it anyway? I think polr is probably like that. My polr anyway, maybe.
It was kind of ironic and parodoxical because I was seeing a therapist in order to stop anxiety issues not to create them- but my refusal to get worked up over anything trolled too many ppl. I also was chastised once for being too calm when a person lost their finger- like I was a sociopath for not freaking out about somebody losing a body part? Maybe they wondered would I act the same way if it was their heart or brain and not a finger (I don't think I would) Idk... maybe I am just creepy.
I don't exactly believe it's really a thing. The polr is just the last thing a person will go to in their psyche. It's the most unnatural thing to do for them, but there's nothing stopping them from training it like a tool to use when the need arises.
Actually, I'm starting to believe some people are incapable of certain mental processes and use socionics polr to represent that. Take a classic psychopath for example, they supposedly lack some kind of empathy and this could end up being associated as a Fi polr hit when they get in trouble with their relations. But in truth, they lacked the ability to begin with. So there ends up being two different polrs people talk about it seems.
Then there's the fact that types are always constant, but people can and do change. Though people will only change to a certain degree, so an NT could go anywhere from XNTx more easily, but is probably not mentally wired to go from NT to SF for example. So I wonder if really there are just type clubs, NT/ST/NF/SF, that people belong to and just kind of wobble around their club, where some are more stable to represent certain types and others more variable depending on the circumstances around them.
I occasionally got Te-PoLRed by ILI and ESI parents.
ESI because she'd Se me about why do you suck at/not even care about Te, why did you mess up that Te thing..
With ILI
he is the tech person of the family so whenever i have a problem i just go to him and ask, but after a while started forcing me to figure things out on my own (i'm not inclined to even try if i know someone can explain it to me, which i understand is not great) and the first few "confrontations" about it were rough on me because i didn't receive it well. i'd yell, why can't you just tell me and they would refuse because i need to learn myself, and i would barely try to figure things out and give up right away and do this other suboptimal solution because it's too stressful, and i would just get more aggressive and they in turn, and i felt like crying out of nowhere.
stuff like figuring out why my monitor doesn't work, why the toaster oven stopped working out of nowhere, how to return this package correctly (just required reading instructions but i messed it up somehow)
another thing about Te PolR is i never feel like i did things right. i have to reread instructions 10 times over and still be anxious i messed up.
and i have trouble even trusting a textbook to tell me the right things
observing LIE/ILI is helpful to me because they show me that it's ok to trust these things/sources/processes, to not always doubt things like that.
working with an LIE often is especially helpful because i can quietly observe their Te in action and learn from them. it's not the same with delta STs because the Ni gives a common point where start of from. but LIE devaluing of Ti unnerves me, it really does. working together with this LIE doesn't feel terribly unbalanced because I am good at the refining of ideas as well as effective delivery, and she assures that we do things right and we also do what we were supposed to do.
i get frustrated because even when i do my best to do something in the most efficient way, something always invariably comes and suddenly i just managed to do something in the most inefficient way.
i never feel like i did my work completely right and i have trouble internally assessing it
i am slow to adopt new shortcuts to doing things even when i realize i really should take the 5 minutes to learn it.
Se PoLR hit is easy. Everytime someone calls an XII a pussy it's a PoLR hit. How do you hit someone with Si PoLR? Call them dirty or something? Messy? Or someone with Te PoLR, call them useless? How do you hit someone with Ni PoLR, call them shortsighted? Is that even a hurtful insult? Who choses the word "short sighted" when they want to throw an insult at you? Ne PoLR how do u hit that? Maybe call someone narrow minded I guess. But calling someone a pussy is most definitely an obvious and well used insult and an easy one to throw out. Calling an Fi PoLR an asshole I don't even see how that hurts considering they can hide their Fi even from themselves to feel absolutely no freaking pain at all, it's practically a super power at that point. Ti PoLR is another bad one though, because you can easily call someone stupid and that's another well used obvious insult that hits like a brick. And Fe PoLR, I guess you can say awkward or socially challenged and maybe that's a hit. But who knows maybe everybody's PoLR hits them like a brick even if it makes no sense to me, I can only see out the lens of my own PoLR, but I have my doubts that all PoLRs hurt as much as the next.
Last edited by Lord Pixel; 10-28-2020 at 04:50 AM.
Well verbal insults aren't the only way to feel a PoLR hit. Generally, having to do something in the realm of the PoLR yourself will do it.
@Lord Pixel, verbal insults don’t really bother me, I think, but my PoLR is hit if I feel what I’m doing is being evaluated, and I have to pay attention to what I’m doing and what I’m saying, for instance in a presentation or interview.
SLEs are often stressful to deal with because they tend to act as if they’re always watching for a reaction, or waiting to instigate one, and I feel I have to defend myself from this.
That list is funny and I feel like it proved some of what I said. I can only feel the pain of my own PoLR, but look at Ni PoLR, how painful is something like that wth. Ni especially seems like something that would barely bother anyone. Ne PoLR sounds like an unwarranted paranoia about nothing essentially. Fi fear, sorry if your afraid of being rejected, like every single person on the planet is, congrats you're human. Si is probably a legit fear, fear of disease. Google can literally walk you through your Te fears. Fe fear is temporary considering emotions are fleeting, especially loud boisterous ones, don't wanna be captured by strong emotions? Don't watch drama, and an emotion can't actually harm you. Ti fears, so what? You have Te, sure you don't have all the "right" info but you can still get it done, no matter how "dumb" someone thinks you are.
Se PoLR I feel like I am at the mercy of the world, of the people around me and whether they decide to hurt/take advantage of me or not. It fucking sucks feeling like you're an ant that people choose not to step on, like all the power is in someone else's hands, you have no control over your own damn safety or protection for your interests. And sometimes guns don't even scare people. Situation after situation my mind wonders "What if I assert myself and this person yells back at me? What am I gonna do? Let them have their way?" "What if this person tries to hurt me? What am I gonna do? Sit there and die?" . That on top of the fact that no one respects someone they consider weak, it's an unvalued trait in life, even a coward hates their self for being weak, so throw self loathing in the mix with Se PoLR.
Last edited by Lord Pixel; 10-30-2020 at 01:54 AM.
In life or death they still probably feel like they could protect them self from another person. And they can simply say "idk" when asked a question like that, bam situation avoided. And it doesn't matter if it's not the norm, doesn't stop you from feeling helpless if someone chose to harm you. And who the hell is disrespecting someone who can't predict the future? I can't remember the last time I heard someone say "Wow what a short sighted simple minded person you are haha!" But we have words to condemn the weak ones. Coward, punk, doormat, pussy, bitch, etc all that good stuff because we do not like or tolerate anything considered weak, in ourselves or others. Collective hate of traits -> self hate of traits -> denial of traits-> repression of traits -> fear of admitting to having hated traits.
EDIT: @Ania and if those se norms were completely true, bullies would not exist.
Last edited by Lord Pixel; 10-30-2020 at 01:58 AM.
Yes but those fears aren't based on something that determines life or death, except maybe Si. Fear of being late, being rejected, surprises and what not aren't the same as feeling like you are powerless to survive if you ever had to defend yourself. On top of those fears not being unanimously condemned, except maybe Si cleanliness again.
Feeling like deep down you truly are a coward no matter what you do and hoping no one ever finds out, is no way to live. Nobody respects that, not even yourself. Tell me how fear of loud emotions even compares to that?
Last edited by Lord Pixel; 10-30-2020 at 02:00 AM.
Hate to break it to you. Bullying is the norm. That's why it's even brought up so much. Maybe not among adults but among kids it's the norm. And we are all the products of our fucked up experiences as kids.
Most times, I don't feel hit by Ti-Polr as much as incredibly drained. Being told that I'm stupid doesn't really do anything, I can just retort with Te. Ti-drain situations:
- having to justify something I did when I don't remember the reason
- "let's go through your report point by point to analyse your reasoning together"
- having to figure out who is who and who is responsible for what in organised groups
- trying to figure out what is "too much to ask", what my "obligations" are, etc...
- trying to figure out what someone really thinks. Why don't you just say it?
- living with someone who will not change his mind; being in a continual debate state about BS
Real Ti hits:
- being accused of dishonesty or bullied when disrespecting rules I didn't know existed(mostly by SLE and LSI)
- telling my opinion about a specific fact and being told "that's not what you really think" or other invalidating comments(btw, I have no clue of what I "really think" most of times)
- having to adapt to rules even when my situation doesn't fit into their assumptions; being punished otherwise
Nice ressources: here and here
Pretty much anything Fi that could be turned against me, I’m instinctually on alert. I hate it but being exposed to so much Fi really exhausts me because I have no control over that function. It’s what I can’t control that I hate because I want more control, not be surrounded by my weaknesses. PoLR function is extremely weak and unvalued but it’s also a shrinking function (cautious) so instead of expanding, it would rather contract so it doesn’t have to be utilized beyond its limitations. Any sort of suggestion or “help” from Fi leads really pisses me off because they’re lecturing me about something I don’t care about that I would rather have destroyed.
So I just put ppl on a hitlist to cope with the PoLR. At least I can fantasize of power.
Here's a good example of not knowing if I can handle Se things. I did karate, I did it to try and get rid of this fear. I entered a tournament. My no.1 fear was getting punched in the face, because I had no idea whether it would knock me unconscious or what. When the guy punched me square in my face, after realizing I did not die and it wasn't the end of the world, I felt extremely alive and in touch with some sense of the limits or strengths or whatever, capabilities of my body. I literally had to leave my persona off the mat in order to compete, every inch of me that was timid, non aggressive, and reactive and not proactive I had to leave off the mat. I had to be someone else. I had some sense of what my body could take without dieing after that punch, and it was almost like a revelation. It helped me feel like maybe my body is stronger than I thought, but before that I had no idea what I could and couldn't take as a punch. I don't know what my own body is capable of or not capable of doing to the outside world, and what it can or can't take most of the time. So in a situation where my strength is needed, whether it is a physical fight, or just using my voice to assert myself, I don't know if the pressure I could put out is ever enough to deal with the pressure someone is putting against me, I also don't know the right pressure, I don't have a go to reaction or anything. I don't know if I can "eliminate the cause of the pressure." for me, or my family, or friends, or loved ones. That makes me feel powerless to the world around me and makes me do dumb shit to deal with that feeling, like fantasizing about eliminating the "pressure", threat, person who did me wrong. Or straight up lieing in highschool about being in a gang so people can think twice before they mess with me, or beating up kids smaller than me so I can feel like I was stronger than something in the world around me just to escape the constant feeling of being weak.
Anyway, Se PoLR sucks bad.
Last edited by Lord Pixel; 10-31-2020 at 01:01 AM.
I feel like inside of every PoLR is the ability to go super saiyan when it’s needed.
My dad was SEE and attacked my polr by having many social gatherings lol
#living in introverts’s exhile
-
Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Every time when butthole raises its ugly head around the corner and I only have sandpaper instead of lube.
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
@Lord Pixel Also, sorry if this is an Se polr hit because of my Se style of reasoning, but you have no actual proof that you’ve been unable to protect others in actually important situations, right? Maybe realizing the extent to which it’s a largely unfounded insecurity would help? You’ve even taken measures to try things like learning karate etc. You should do more of those things to realize your proficiencies and build your confidence.
I think you are taking socionics a bit too literally here. Don’t just let some negative interpretations of a theory determine and stagnate your well-being.
I wish that's all they were.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
