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Thread: Continuation! (a video this time)

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    Default Continuation! (a video this time)

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    Last edited by amstramgram; 03-26-2020 at 12:40 AM.

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    I think that you are ESI. I can give an extended reasoning later.

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    I can't turn the sound up on my device high enough to hear you, but the visual impression I get is still SF, and Exxj, I'd say.

    Again, I don't get Conflictor vibes from watching you, so I don't think you are SEI. You seem extroverted and judging but gentle and caregiver-like. Unfortunately, the few (2) ESE's I know are both males, so I don't have a lot of experience with female ESE's. I do think that you'd complement my LII sister, for some reason. You seem to be good at telling stories, which is ESE.

    We need to get some LII's in here to weigh in. @FreelancePoliceman, @ouronis, @Rebelondeck, what do you guys think?

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    Quote Originally Posted by enmity View Post
    I think that you are ESI. I can give an extended reasoning later.
    I look forward to it

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I can't turn the sound up on my device high enough to hear you, but the visual impression I get is still SF, and Exxj, I'd say.

    Again, I don't get Conflictor vibes from watching you, so I don't think you are SEI. You seem extroverted and judging but gentle and caregiver-like. Unfortunately, the few (2) ESE's I know are both males, so I don't have a lot of experience with female ESE's. I do think that you'd complement my LII sister, for some reason. You seem to be good at telling stories, which is ESE.

    We need to get some LII's in here to weigh in. @FreelancePoliceman, @ouronis, @Rebelondeck, what do you guys think?
    Sorry about that! That's funny because on my laptop I can sort of hear myself. I am definitely speaking on the quieter side tho lol. I'll try to find a way to make the video louder once it finishes processing in google photos, haha.

    That's interesting you find my extroverted weell once I up the volume and you can hear what I say maybe you'll change your mind. From my point of view I'm very introverted, at least socially!

    What exactly do "conflictor vibes" feel like?

    My brother happens to be LII

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    “Conflictor vibes” occur when I see a woman whom I think is SEI. Honestly, they aren’t something I immediately feel, but rather are something I’ve trained myself to feel.

    I think that SEI females are typically very attractive. I mean, very attractive. However, when I interact with them for a short time, they are repulsed. They hate my humor and they doubt my motives, and as a consequence, when I see one, I tell myself “Stay away! Stay away!”

    Over time, this voice in my head has become reflexive.

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    First off, as you have mentioned yourself and from the pictures you have posted, it does seem that you are an introvert.
    Your body posture reveals that you are guarded and reserved. You would still like to appear friendly and smile, but it is at a distance.
    Human relations are very important to you so you are certainly an ethical type.
    You mention that you want to be closer in your relationships and that you have a few really close friends. This suggests to me that you are an Fi ego.
    You say that you like it when a person is very motivated and driven. This is reminiscent of suggestive Te.
    You like to see such activity within yourself as well. You don't like to waste time and you clearly value work and activity. Se creative.
    In the judicious/decisive dichotomy, you are a decisive type. It is easy for you to go from relaxed to mobilized but not the other way.
    You say that you will travel and get a lot of massages when given a lot of money but that you would eventually return back to work from being bored.
    This isn't an empty thing to say, there are a lot of people who wouldn't say something like that, myself included. I would just relax forever if I had the opportunity lol.
    It also highlights your demonstrative Si. You are well aware of what would soothe and relax you and can seek for them, but you don't treat them as a priority in life.
    "Wow with all that money, you could do so much." Cute. Again, reminded me of an ESI I know.
    Although you are an emotional person, you do not readily show it to other people. ESIs are known to appear cold to other people.
    People say that you are expressionless or emotionless because you are guarded like I have mentioned earlier.
    They are restrained in their emotional expressions due to ignoring Fe.
    "I don't like superficial people." "I like genuine people." More signs of Fi base.
    I liked the part where you show your room. That part highlights your demonstrative Si.
    You do not clutter in interior design and you don't like bright and garish decorations. You aim for simplicity.

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    As for DCNH subtype, I think you are harmonizing.

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    Master of Space and Reality Viktor's Avatar
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    Play piano for us!

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    I still think ESE, the emotional expression, which is of a reactive nature, is too abundant for an SEI.

    In the previous VI thread you mentioned you are too introverted to be ESE. But in Socionics, introversion and extroversion are not about what we normally understand as intro- and extroversion, which are about social attitudes. In Socionics, intro- and extroversion are about object/subject orientation. This is also what I explain in the aforementioned blog post. It is perfectly possible in Socionics to be an extroverted type will being, to some extent, a social introvert. And shyness is not be definition the same as social introversion either.

    Hope this helps.
    Last edited by consentingadult; 03-17-2020 at 09:30 PM.
    “I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking

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    An ESE would exude emotional warmness, which is absent here. ESE is not even close to being an option.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    “Conflictor vibes” occur when I see a woman whom I think is SEI. Honestly, they aren’t something I immediately feel, but rather are something I’ve trained myself to feel.

    I think that SEI females are typically very attractive. I mean, very attractive. However, when I interact with them for a short time, they are repulsed. They hate my humor and they doubt my motives, and as a consequence, when I see one, I tell myself “Stay away! Stay away!”

    Over time, this voice in my head has become reflexive.
    I see, that's interesting.
    I have a lot of friends who are Ne ego, and we have very similar humor, especially ILE and LII. My father (ILI) and I have very very similar humor too.

    Quote Originally Posted by enmity View Post
    First off, as you have mentioned yourself and from the pictures you have posted, it does seem that you are an introvert.
    Your body posture reveals that you are guarded and reserved. You would still like to appear friendly and smile, but it is at a distance.
    Human relations are very important to you so you are certainly an ethical type.
    You mention that you want to be closer in your relationships and that you have a few really close friends. This suggests to me that you are an Fi ego.
    You say that you like it when a person is very motivated and driven. This is reminiscent of suggestive Te.
    You like to see such activity within yourself as well. You don't like to waste time and you clearly value work and activity. Se creative.
    In the judicious/decisive dichotomy, you are a decisive type. It is easy for you to go from relaxed to mobilized but not the other way.
    You say that you will travel and get a lot of massages when given a lot of money but that you would eventually return back to work from being bored.
    This isn't an empty thing to say, there are a lot of people who wouldn't say something like that, myself included. I would just relax forever if I had the opportunity lol.
    It also highlights your demonstrative Si. You are well aware of what would soothe and relax you and can seek for them, but you don't treat them as a priority in life.
    "Wow with all that money, you could do so much." Cute. Again, reminded me of an ESI I know.
    Although you are an emotional person, you do not readily show it to other people. ESIs are known to appear cold to other people.
    People say that you are expressionless or emotionless because you are guarded like I have mentioned earlier.
    They are restrained in their emotional expressions due to ignoring Fe.
    "I don't like superficial people." "I like genuine people." More signs of Fi base.
    I liked the part where you show your room. That part highlights your demonstrative Si.
    You do not clutter in interior design and you don't like bright and garish decorations. You aim for simplicity.
    yes I'm certainly ethical. but do you think a more socially (versus cognitively) introverted Fe creative would also like to have a few really close friends?
    I do value work and activity in myself; however, it rarely actually happens. i would love to be the type of person who is always being productive and moving around, however I am not and if left to my own devices I will just stay home and sit around in front of my laptop all day.
    I do think I'm decisive after looking at the differences..
    for the case if I had a lot of money.. thinking on it more I think it would more be that.. I wouldn't return to work because I am bored, but more because I would feel unhappy with myself(do you see the distinction? or maybe it's the same thing ha) I get very stressed when I'm not as productive as I felt like I should have been (which is often)
    I do appear cold to others generally
    I'm typically quite a messy person though (I just cleaned my room yesterday); if there's strong Si is that still possible

    Also, it is probably worth mentioning my enneatype (oh i shouldve said it before) which is 4w5 (100% sure about it). the not liking superficial people I think is a lot from that (maybe not Fi).
    @Viktor
    if i need to make another video maybe I will do you know Liebestraum by Listz? a very beautiful piece and it's more well known, i'm learning it right now.


    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    I still think ESE, the emotional expression, which is of a reactive nature, is too abundant for an SEI.

    In the previous VI thread you mentioned you are too introverted to be ESE. But in Socionics, introversion and extroversion are not about what we normally understand as intro- and extroversion, which are about social attitudes. In Socionics, intro- and extroversion are about object/subject orientation. This is also what I explain in the aforementioned blog post. It is perfectly possible in Socionics to be an extroverted type will being, to some extent, a social introvert. And shyness is not be definition the same as social introversion either.

    Hope this helps.
    I do make the distinction between cognitive and social intro/extroversion, and I am definitely very oriented towards people. however i'm really not very extroverted (socially) and prefer to keep to myself a lot. i could stay home by myself for days and days. i don't often make plans with friends (although i'm making an effort to do so more).
    I think a Fe-program, even if more introverted, wouldn't be ok with this, no? I also don't identify with having 1D Ti very much.. I've always been one of the best in the class in subjects such as the maths and sciences, and I'm good at working things out logically.


    @Adam Strange I've been trying to download the video to my laptop for some time now, to edit it, but for whatever reason it won't let me (still "processing") (i'll keep trying)
    maybe it will be louder if you use earbuds/headphones?
    Last edited by amstramgram; 03-17-2020 at 09:59 PM. Reason: i seem to have trouble spelling your name, viktor (first victor, then vicktor..) ;p

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    @amstramgram No I don't know anything about high culture, I only play the devils music. I'd like to hear you play piano though

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    Quote Originally Posted by amstramgram View Post
    yes I'm certainly ethical. but do you think a more socially (versus cognitively) introverted Fe creative would also like to have a few really close friends?
    I do value work and activity in myself; however, it rarely actually happens. i would love to be the type of person who is always being productive and moving around, however I am not and if left to my own devices I will just stay home and sit around in front of my laptop all day.
    I do think I'm decisive after looking at the differences..
    for the case if I had a lot of money.. thinking on it more I think it would more be that.. I wouldn't return to work because I am bored, but more because I would feel unhappy with myself(do you see the distinction? or maybe it's the same thing ha) I get very stressed when I'm not as productive as I felt like I should have been (which is often)
    I do appear cold to others generally
    I'm typically quite a messy person though (I just cleaned my room yesterday); if there's strong Si is that still possible

    Also, it is probably worth mentioning my enneatype (oh i shouldve said it before) which is 4w5 (100% sure about it). the not liking superficial people I think is a lot from that (maybe not Fi).
    Liszt is an excellent choice. My favourite piece from him is Un Sospiro. I used to play a lot of piano when I was younger myself.
    Actually, from my experience Fe creative people like to have a lot of friends but at a lower level of engagement.
    They rarely initiate contact. They don't often check in with people. They do have close friends as well of course but their attention is divided.
    ESIs often have very close friends who they really value.

    I understand the distinction. You feel as if you are wasting your potential and living a passive life by not working. It is not so much that you are bored but that you cannot accept that behaviour within yourself.
    As for the interior design, my point still stands. You value simplicity and you don't like clutter. At the same time, it is not your primary concern. Do you feel as if you can rest easily without having done the necessary work?
    ESIs are rarely content with the amount of work they have done. If you were a super active and productive person, then you would be an SEE not an ESI.

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    She is not ESE. Hugo is so smiley and goofy that they can never hide it. Hugo is goofy but at the same time he is goofy in a highly rational way that reflects valued and rational temperament.
    Socionics is not behaviorist!

    "This is the bizarre thing about being a superhero — you've even got to save the bad guys." -- Captain Planet.

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    Low expressions, low energy, passive, quite, timid, etc. In general you do seem inwardly focused so I wouldn't doubt your own characterization of being introverted. You admire performers and dancers (Si), quick thinkers (Te). You don't mind overbearing people (Si). I noticed you skipped the religious and political questions, so (Ni) is not something you value. My first impression is EII. You do have more presence on camera than you give yourself credit for.

    Regarding school, it's natural to like things we excel in, but if you were doing well until now you are probably not spending as much time studying as you should. Maybe at a certain point in your life the little amount of mental effort you were putting into school was enough but it probably isn't anymore. You probably dislike doing more than you are used to. But if you have any ambitions at all, this is the time to pick up the pace. You do seem conflicted or unsure about your future plans after school so that is probably not helping.

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    No one can agree on anything!

    I'm not the best typer, so maybe take this with a grain of salt. I think you're ESE. I agree with @consentingadult in that Socionics' sense of extraversion/introversion is somewhat different than the typical pop-culture idea of it, in case you're skeptical you could be an extraverted type. Anyway, here's my best shot at explaining my typing:

    Firstly, you come off as an F type. I think everyone else has typed you as one, so I won't waste effort trying to justify this. But between Fe and Fi, you come off as valuing Fe -- you tend to have something close to a smile most of the time, even when you're pensive or talking about something negative. You also seem fairly expressive in tone, facial expression, and gestures, which I think adds additional points for Fe. Fi people, especially Fi-bases, come off as being serious most of the time, and their smiles are more differentiated: they're either smiling, or they're not. You also talk about having a good sense of aesthetics, and you come off as a fairly tidy/organized person (especially if your room is a good indication), which indicates to me valued Si.

    My laptop has been having hardware trouble, and its audio went out about 7 minutes into the video. I stopped there, so I apologize if I missed anything important that might change my opinion, or help me better persuade you of this typing. Anyway, I'll try to respond for other typings I've seen on this thread. I don't think you're SEI; SEIs are typically more negative and anxious than you seem to be, and, while you're clearly intelligent and reflective, SEIs do tend to be more introspective and immersed in themselves than you give the impression of being. You also mentioned you're pretty emotionally resilient, which is more characteristic of ESEs than SEIs, who can be easily demotivated by slight problems. There's also the matter that there's often a stereotype of ESEs as being hyper-extraverted. This sounds like a cop-out, but I think ESEs tend to be slightly "introverted" in the social sense as kids and young adults, and only become very talkative/stereotypical once they've built up confidence, which seems to usually happen in the 25-30 age range. I've already explained why I think you're Fi-valuing, and so not ESI or EII, but in addition, I didn't see any indication that you valued Se (you seem like you'd be unsure of yourself in a conflict, and you seem to prefer a comfortable environment over invigorating experiences or whatever Se people like シ), and I'm not sure your Ne is strong enough to be your creative (you like to learn about new things and ideas, but you don't seem like you're particularly used to "inventing" new ideas or perspectives yourself).

    Edit: I just read post #11, which I think I had ignored! So, re. humor, when you say your sense of humor is similar to these people's, is it in the sense that you appreciate their humor, or that you make similar jokes? If you actually make jokes that are similar to both Alpha and Gamma NT humor, that seems bizarre to me: they seem generally pretty different, though I'm not able to describe the Gamma sense of humor well. But otherwise, it at least wouldn't be Socionically surprising for an Alpha SF to appreciate the humor of an Alpha NT. No idea how they tend to feel about Gamma NT humor though.

    Again, regarding being an extravert, my ESE mother was once talking to me about how though it seems everyone she knew would consider her clearly extraverted, she's not sure she's "really" an extravert, because she doesn't have many friends, and she can't keep up social interaction "forever"; that is, she needs a lot of time to "recharge" between periods of social interaction, and before going to work the next day. This is to a great extent just normal human behavior, and might reflect the weirdness and extremity of our thoughts about introverts and extraverts, where introverts are close to being asocial, and extraverts just want to party indefinitely. My experience with ESEs, for what it's worth, is that they only tend to have a few close friends, even if they have a broad pool of acquaintances. Perhaps that's also just normal human behavior.

    Re. 1D Ti, ESEs aren't actually bad at academics as a rule. I have an ESE acquaintance/distant friend who heads a university honors society for philosophy, and has submitted papers to conferences that were apparently pretty prestigious. My mother was almost the top of her class in medical school, and was generally the top of her class through high school and undergrad. Actually, if anything, I think they're inclined to be good at academics because they're Ti-seeking. I've heard this philosopher-ESE talk at length about how she was drawn to philosophy because she really wanted to just make sense of things, especially since she had difficulty managing and making sense of her own life. She recently got a tattoo in ancient Greek which loosely translates to "Know both the good and the beautiful", which I think captures her approach to to both philosophy and life pretty well.

    Anyway, hopefully this has been helpful.

    @Adam Strange, I'm tagging you since you tagged me.
    Last edited by FreelancePoliceman; 03-18-2020 at 07:10 AM.
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    Jesus is the cruel sausage consentingadult's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by enmity View Post
    An ESE would exude emotional warmness, which is absent here. ESE is not even close to being an option.
    You are forgetting one thing: she is talking into a camera, not to another person sitting opposite of her. This makes quite a difference in the level emotional expressiveness. In order to properly assess someones social emotional attitude, one would ideally make a video interview, with someone else as the interviewer.

    I think there is more than enough emotional expression to make a case for ESE. In fact, everything she says goes accompanied with a change in facial expression, even despite she being alone talking into a camera.
    “I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking

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    I know two male ESE's (and no females), and one ESE is quite expressive and demonstrative. He works as a chef, and you can see him cook.

    The second ESE works in house restoration and I mistook him for an LSE for a couple years. He is serious, almost never smiles, is friendly and steady and has the best sense of interior decoration of anyone I know.

    Wait, I just realized that I do know a female ESE. She owns a mid-century modern furniture store. She is polite and interested in people, but not very demonstrative. She doesn't smile very much.

    I'd say that the difference I see between ESTj's and ESFj's is that ESTj's don't know how they feel and so they certainly don't care how you feel. They have that Te-assholeishness about them, while ESFj's look "softer", more like "Are you OK? Comfortable? Yes? Then good."
    Both can have a terrific sense of style, but in person, the T/F difference is obvious.

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    This is beyond ridiculous. There is absolutely no way you can mistake her as an ESE. If you listen to what she is saying and critically look at her pictures this will be clear.

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    Jesus is the cruel sausage consentingadult's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by enmity View Post
    This is beyond ridiculous. There is absolutely no way you can mistake her as an ESE. If you listen to what she is saying and critically look at her pictures this will be clear.
    Let me tell you what is ridiculous: an Fe-PolR type with just 86 post to their name claiming to be an expert on Fe.
    “I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking

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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    Let me tell you what is ridiculous: an Fe-PolR type with just 86 post to their name claiming to be an expert on Fe.
    Amusing. Appealing to authority? The number of posts mean nothing. At least I am brave enough to present my own type lol. You have done nothing but argue that the option has not been ruled out without presenting any evidence. Even from the link you provide that talks about the difference between Fi and Fe, it is clear that she values Fi and not Fe. Try to present some concrete examples from her video. Spoiler: You can't.

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