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Thread: SEIs/ISFps and relationships

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    Rusal's Avatar
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    Default SEIs/ISFps and relationships

    SEIs and relationships

    Some points on SEIs and relationships. I’ve just amplified my case, really, and I believe I’m a SEI-Si so be warned that much may not apply to the Fe subtype. If the following is too off the mark for you for what you consider to be a SEI, just add your thoughts or questions. At the end of my post I write why my text seems to be stuck on some concepts. Whatever the case, I still think this can help with SEIs if you focus on how phlegmatism is the engine behind many attitudes.


    1) A SEI may interact with different people who will never know of the other’s existence or s/he may delay the introduction of a SO to friends or family, actions that give off an impression of a somewhat private person. Most likely it may be the case that SEIs don’t see much value in sharing information. But perhaps also that once these two worlds come into contact with each other they grow entangled, which in turns restricts the reasonable amount of freedom of action they like to have to do as they see fit without having to explain themselves.

    2) SEIs are essentialy phlegmatic. Strong (mostly negative) emotions that they deem unreasonable can cause an aversion, but because they ‘scan’ the environment for those of other people they, can feel overwhelmed by their display. If such a situation is unavoidable, a SEI can rely on the best defense (an attack) and manufacture a burst of emotion or a small scandal. This can be perceived as defensiveness or moodiness. A SEI can go around thinking everyone is just irrational and that s/he is a walking target.

    An example: If a SEI is involved in a relationship with a more choleric and possessive partner, there might inevitably come a time when this other person gifts them with an intense jealousy scene where they are the victim. Unable to understand such unreasonable behaviour, their mind instantly starts operating on the notion that they’ve been pulled into a confrontation they can’t lose since their freedom it at stake and can’t bear the thought of not coming on top (for a SEI, to resign their freedom is like pinning a badge of dishonor to their forehead that establishes how things will work in the relationship from that moment on).

    Neither can they calmly soothe their partner out of his/her worries because there awakens an urgent need to punish the transgression and prevent further attampts, as if a lesson was being imparted. In the ensuing argument they will, then, strike back with the corresponding force. This will give way to misunderstandings, since what they see as a spontaneous move to defend themselved, their partner might interpret as a rejection of their affection. What will particularly sting in that case is that their choleric partner can remember the burn for longer and make them pay for weeks to come. A reaction like that will seem unnecessary cruel and makes them feel doubly victimized. Frist they are subjected to irrational controlling behaviour and then punished for having the gall to resist it.

    But precisely because they lack the choleric flair for lasting impressions, they have the ability to calm down more easily and are convinced they can see the situation from the outside, from where their partner’s aspirations seem as equally illogical as before. They can come to believe no instrospection is needed on their part. At times they will do this with relationships in general, as their phlegmatic predisposition allows for a seemingly clear head: seize people up, contrast and compare, draw a conclusion. It can be a pessimistic one. Whatever are they going to do? ‘That’s a self-fulfilling prophecy’ they might hear. But they know.

    They respond better to people who are positive to neutral in communication. Every sociotype has a soft spot from where it can be redirectioned if others are smart enough. SEIs are looking for a sense of freedom in their personal matters.

    3) A SEI might disappear. Not really ‘disappear’ but more in a ‘off to do their own thing’ sense. Not likely to be the kind of people to feel the need to take their partner or a friend everywhere they go. They would not mind and may actually enjoy taking a trip abroad alone, starting a new activity alone, etc. Even when living in domestic bliss they can still ‘disappear’. A sudden desire to go for a walk even if it’s raining. What do they do? Well, they get a rush from devising things in their head: they might walk for miles devising a new song if they’re musicians or contemplating the implications of a new theory they’ve read. Or they just become a blank space that gets imprinted with sensoric impressions from the environment. But they do it privately.

    4) When not fully acclimatized to a person, SEIs might avoid them. Particularly authority figures. They may lack (and admire) the ability some have to establish natural yet assertive relations with their boss, for example.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    As I was writing this I realized that I was wandering perhaps too much into ISTp-Si territory. The inclination to protect their freedom and teach a lesson to anyone who threatens it they seem to have (and yet in Myers and Briggs, ISFPs lack no willingness to bite hard for the same reason). I would say then:


    1. Strong preference for Si quite blurs the line a between SEI-Si and SLI-Si for me, presenting many similarities (both subtypes are secretive, undemonstrative, at least somewhat indepedent, into the arts, on the search for internal and physical harmony, like nature, can be said to work well with their hands, etc).
    2. Or I am basically and SLI-Si and female socialization has turned me into a semblance of a SEI-Si.
    Last edited by Rusal; 02-21-2020 at 10:45 PM.

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    Adam Strange's Avatar
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    @Rusal, I was married to an SLI-Te, and she liked to take personality tests from time to time and always tested as an SLI. She worked at the University as a senior systems analyst, which is a fairly Te job.
    She really liked her job and liked working and really didn’t want to have kids, but she became pregnant and it looked as if she might have to quit her wonderful job and stay home and raise a kid and she became highly stressed. She started testing as an SEI.
    It all worked out for her. I raised the kid, she kept working, and she went back to testing as an SLI-Te.

    I thought it was very strange that a person’s previously steady type results could change, but at the time, I didn’t appreciate how close the two types actually are, and how stress can affect a person.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 02-20-2020 at 11:23 AM.

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    Rebelondeck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    ....... She started testing as an SEI.......and she went back to testing as an SLI-Te....
    Many people assume characteristics that they feel they should have rather than what they really possess. Over the long term, this usually leads to general unhappiness or discontentment but I've seen people spend whole lifetimes in this sort of denial. In numerous interviews for bench-level laboratory positions, most people described themselves as Ijs; and although they're completely wrong, they're also not deliberately lying. Your wife was simply describing what she thinks subconsciously that she must become not who she is........

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    Many people assume characteristics that they feel they should have rather than what they really possess. Over the long term, this usually leads to general unhappiness or discontentment but I've seen people spend whole lifetimes in this sort of denial. In numerous interviews for bench-level laboratory positions, most people described themselves as Ijs; and although they're completely wrong, they're also not deliberately lying. Your wife was simply describing what she thinks subconsciously that she must become not who she is........

    a.k.a. I/O
    @Rebelondeck, this occurred to me, too, but I have had a hard time understanding her motives in the past (maybe Supervision does this to Supervisees) and I didn't want to jump straight to a conclusion. But I'll bet you are right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    .....but I have had a hard time understanding her motives in the past.........
    Most SLIs are usually fairly open about their motives; they even seem to relish telling people to their faces what they're going to do and how they're going to do it; they may not if they know that they would lose but many will do it on principle. With SEIs, motives are not always that clear; if they admire their significant others, they seem to adopt many of their positions and perspectives to a point where you wouldn't recognize the original SEIs. Many will model someone from work or a neighbour as if they feel that they, in their present states, don't quite measure up. When they don't admire, they go silent and sometimes start building up evidence to be used as protection against those people. When they have self-confidence, this doesn't seem to occur as much - and some get bossy.....

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Good stuff OP. Solid entry.

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    In my experience, SEIs can be quite assertive when necessary. They are not pushovers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aramas View Post
    In my experience, SEIs can be quite assertive when necessary. They are not pushovers.
    This is one of those things I feel is dependent on how you see assertiveness and pushoveriness.
    φιλοκαλοῦμέν τε γὰρ μετ᾽ εὐτελείας καὶ φιλοσοφοῦμεν ἄνευ μαλακίας...

    I've been busy, so if I don't respond to something, feel free to ping me every day or so until I do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    This is one of those things I feel is dependent on how you see assertiveness and pushoveriness.
    Maybe?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I thought it was very strange that a person’s previously steady type results could change, but at the time, I didn’t appreciate how close the two types actually are, and how stress can affect a person.
    I found a chart on subtypes and it appears that SEI-Si subtype creates a SLI-Si pseudo-type (and vice versa)

    chart.png

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusal View Post
    I found a chart on subtypes and it appears that SEI-Si subtype creates a SLI-Si pseudo-type (and vice versa)

    chart.png
    Yes, @Rusal. That chart is from @Olimpia's website. I think it is mostly accurate.

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    Love your description. One question that arises: how then would one differentiate between SLI-Si and SEI-Si in practice?

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    Even with Si subtypes the SEI will be much more concerned about the general atmosphere and what is appropriate to say or do. They will display a lot more emotion compared to SLI. Their interests can seem similar on the surface but a SLI will be quietly competent with all things practical, SEI not so much even if they (especially men) might try to look that way sometimes.
    SEI are definitely pushovers compared to SLI and will cry much more easily if someone is mean to them.
    SEI will have a lot more FB friends than SLI who probably won't even be there.

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    Rusal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northstar View Post
    SEI (...) will cry much more easily if someone is mean to them.
    We have a tendency to tear up easily, it’s true. I actually thought of adding something on that in the original post but I didn’t in the end since I thought it would come off as too manipulative when it’s really not. But since the topic’s come up…

    I'll retake the case of jealous partner. Let’s say the SEI victim of his jealousy is a woman. Since his irrationality is hard to take she might actually start crying but if the argument grows more intense and she sees her freedom hanging from a thread there will be a moment in some part of it where everything will instantly go from confusion to clarity. It’s hard to describe but it’ll feel like a fog’s been lifted. Suddenly she’ll know how to proceed and not care about the consequences much. There’s a certain coldness to that.

    Just like with other types of arguments I can rememember where I might tear up and mean it, but there have been times when the exterior does not reflect what’s going inside. Literally I can be sobbing and a rush of coldness with hit me. I will feel nothing but tears are still on my face. I’ll have to be careful then because I'll see I’m the one in control of the conversation and decide how it will end.

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    Nothing wrong with being sensitive.

    SEI are the more human types of people. Not lizard people at all.

    As far as someone being mean to them, from what I've seen they might have a reaction initially, but I wouldn't discount them as they are way tougher than they seem even if malleable. Ignoring Se is still 3D

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusal View Post
    We have a tendency to tear up easily, it’s true. I actually thought of adding something on that in the original post but I didn’t in the end since I thought it would come off as too manipulative when it’s really not. But since the topic’s come up…

    I'll retake the case of jealous partner. Let’s say the SEI victim of his jealousy is a woman. Since his irrationality is hard to take she might actually start crying but if the argument grows more intense and she sees her freedom hanging from a thread there will be a moment in some part of it where everything will instantly go from confusion to clarity. It’s hard to describe but it’ll feel like a fog’s been lifted. Suddenly she’ll know how to proceed and not care about the consequences much. There’s a certain coldness to that.

    Just like with other types of arguments I can rememember where I might tear up and mean it, but there have been times when the exterior does not reflect what’s going inside. Literally I can be sobbing and a rush of coldness with hit me. I will feel nothing but tears are still on my face. I’ll have to be careful then because I'll see I’m the one in control of the conversation and decide how it will end.
    That's exactly my experience of a long relationship with a SEI. She actually described it the same way, after inconsolable crying there comes a cold numb resolve.
    There is a hard core but it takes a lot for it to come out and it will disappear quickly without a trace. I've also seen my timid and unassuming SEI mother explode with rage on very rare occasions.
    SEI are definitely among the sweetest and most innocent of all types there are, one of the biggest regrets in my life still is treating one badly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northstar View Post
    That's exactly my experience of a long relationship with a SEI. She actually described it the same way, after inconsolable crying there comes a cold numb resolve.
    There is a hard core but it takes a lot for it to come out and it will disappear quickly without a trace. I've also seen my timid and unassuming SEI mother explode with rage on very rare occasions.
    SEI are definitely among the sweetest and most innocent of all types there are, one of the biggest regrets in my life still is treating one badly.
    Would like to comment on this as even @Poptart has mentioned this. Being soft like an avocado both inside and outside while having a hard core. I personally agree with it myself. I think a lot of people seem to underestimate the sweetness of the SEI and the empathy they can provide while both assuming they have a too tender heart. I have had time where I needed to access that cold hard-ness myself but it is very much there and I am aware of it. While I am very warm and caring towards others and willing to sacrifice a lot, I am not afraid to burn the bridge without second thought once I see the cold reality of the larger picture. The only difficult part is getting past the emotions and it often takes a very long time to see it. What needs to be done will be done. There was a point of time in my last job and I had enough, I was crying for weeks and extremely emotional upset. Once I came to my own cold resolve, I was putting out resumes very quickly and looking hard. My ESE coworker was surprised how quickly I changed my tune and was able to find another job in two weeks. I got lucky. I coldly cut off others when I saw the big picture that things were not going to change and I saw that the most likely realistic future of this relationship would not be positive nor realistic. I know that while I can't willingly access the hard core, I know that is a fail safe system for me no matter what.

    I like to think that Alphas are very realistic at their core, but choose to defy cold realism for the sake of idealism because that is not the life they want to live and want to choose a 'bright future' instead of truly 'accepting' a cold realism. I prefer choosing to live in idealism then accepting a cold realism. However, I think people don't realize how coldly accepting and how quickly I can mobilize once I accept it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MissDucki View Post
    I like to think that Alphas are very realistic at their core, but choose to defy cold realism for the sake of idealism because that is not the life they want to live and want to choose a 'bright future' instead of truly 'accepting' a cold realism. I prefer choosing to live in idealism then accepting a cold realism. However, I think people don't realize how coldly accepting and how quickly I can mobilize once I accept it.
    "Accepting" a cold realism is giving up all hope of a better future, saying that where we are now is the best possible. Which is stupid. Idealic futures may be impossible, but aiming for them gets reality a little closer each time.

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    I like to think that Alphas are very realistic at their core, but choose to defy cold realism for the sake of idealism because that is not the life they want to live and want to choose a 'bright future' instead of truly 'accepting' a cold realism.
    This describes my Alpha parents really well, I think. They were a lot more realistic than me, but also more idealistic about that realism. I love to fantasize, but when I'm real- I kind of bring everything down to earth in a huge Shadow-type grimdark Gravity spell. Alphas.... are more 'upbeat' than this or something and I admire them for it. ILE friend sometimes teases me and calls me a 'fun killer.' lol

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