ESI-LSI Obvious Differences

[The Reality Denialist]

Some LSI's can give very long winded mono manic causalistic analysis to a problem which might lead people to think that he is the head figure of the concentration camp on some remote island.
ESI's tend to size you up.

[SGF]

Some LSI's can give very long winded mono manic causalistic analysis to a problem which might lead people to think that he is the head figure of the concentration camp on some remote island.
ESI's tend to size you up.

:/ it is rather common for people to call me "arrogant" because I argue as if I'm absolutely right.. and crush their ideals with bitter realism.

You can easily spot LSI by their Fe vulnerable.



It would be beneficial to assess how you act when you are in a group of people.

Yeah. Without that I'm too polite and rigid. In a welcoming Fe environment its like I'm a different person.

ESIs however seem more soulful by default, they don't seem to put on a mask of friendliness (role Fi in LSI).

The more comfortable I am with people, the more I get to know them.. the harsher I seem to get, the friendly mask falls off and I start becoming more and more myself as I stop worrying about stepping on other people's DFi and can just speak my mind... which again may come off as "arrogant".

There is no “conversion” from MBTI to Socionics since they’re different systems even though they claim to take their foundation from Jung. There’s some common trends between the types but they’re just general and not to be taken as rules. You have have to determine what you are in the separate systems and consider both as part of your psychological makeup and not integrate the types together since they’re structurally different.

If you read Keirsey, and compare to socionics, ISTJ is actually more like LSI, especially the rational subtypes (D and N from Dr.DarkAngelFireWolf69). However some ISTP are LSI, like SGF. Jung might be casually typed INFJ but he is actually ISTP LSI. To understand Jung and socionics, more complex MBTI, it’s not a secret that the person has to be strong with Ti, since these are theoretical systems that were created by Ti leads (LSI is actually the most common type in the analytical psychology profession).

On Keirsey's test I actually test as ISTJ, its the only MBTI-ish test I score J on tbh. When it comes to descriptions tho I could add about 75% of Keirsey's ISTP to the type description and subtract some of the ISTJ's rigidity.. that would be me. I used to be confused as to why I type as ISTJ Guardian inspector on Keirsey's test and INTP on other tests.

I’m ESTP and SEE. Keirsey’s portrait of ESTP actually reads like SEE and although it’s generally accepted that it’s common for MBTI ESTP to be SEE, a good number are actually EIE and even LSE and there’s only a very few who are SLE (I’m friends with such a combo ESTP SLE). ENTJ reads like SLE (aka the Fieldmarshal). ESFP reads like ESE, like Homer Simpson. Etc. There is no MBTI version of ESI, they just are ESI. There’s no easy conversion to understanding any of this. You have to do a lot of unpacking in the separate systems to even compare them.

yeah I agree. Including you I have known many SEE's who think they are ESTP. I also know one self typed ESTP who got officially typed as EIE-N. Even I as LSI have a side to me that is more IEI, minus all the Te problems IEIs have ofc.

[Lolita]

yeah I agree. Including you I have known many SEE's who think they are ESTP. I also know one self typed ESTP who got officially typed as EIE-N. Even I as LSI have a side to me that is more IEI, minus all the Te problems IEIs have ofc.

That’s because MBTI ESTP and SEE are weak with Te. I’m weak with Te in the area where if I have to come up from scratch how to execute plans, that’s problematic. I won’t know how to do something until I’m forced in the moment. Te has to serve my Se. I’m resourceful but not executive, not managerial. I can organize and improve upon what already exists but if you want me to teach you step by step on how to arrive at a conclusion, that’s going to be difficult for me to explain. I can work things with Ti no problems, I even create my own systems of organizing large bodies of information (like when I worked in my law office job and I came up with how to cross reference cases based on 5 different factors) but Te, that’s another thing. I’m not good at the pure efficiency and practical side of controlling resources and information. So I cannot exactly explain how and why I came up with what I did. All I know is it makes sense. This has been my big question I want answered which was what lead me to get typed because I wanted to know why I do what I do (a Te matter). That’s why the MBTI ESTPs often come out SEE but if they’re super focused on the emotionality aspect, they’ll be EIE In which case, I consider them delusional even from MBTI perspective because they’re still not Se dom.

[Lolita]

ESIs however seem more soulful by default, they don't seem to put on a mask of friendliness (role Fi in LSI).
The more comfortable I am with people, the more I get to know them.. the harsher I seem to get, the friendly mask falls off and I start becoming more and more myself as I stop worrying about stepping on other people's DFi and can just speak my mind... which again may come off as "arrogant".

LOL I wouldn’t say ESI are soulful, although they seem to believe they are and much more pure and holier-than-thou than anyone. They are the opposite of LSI that in the beginning, they’re very distant and want to scrutinize before they decide how the relationship with be. Once they’ve decided that you’re worthy, you really can’t get rid of them, even if you try hard. If you’ve succeeded, then they’ll give you the silent treatment (which is ironic because SLE wants that and gets an easy escape from their supervisor lol). ESI will be by your side for all eternity, lecturing you for being stupid if they have to. But very rare would they give you up. Maybe throw you to the wolves to teach you a lesson, but not leave you. It’s the high dimensional Fi, duty kicks in. Even if you do stupid things, that won’t break the Fi bond with them once it’s been established. LSI has weak Fi and although they would want to be resilient with others and stick by those they care about, it’s harder for them to go through though times with people for longer periods because it wears them down. So as time goes on, Fi bonds grow stronger, but Ti becomes more alienated and detached.

On Keirsey's test I actually test as ISTJ, its the only MBTI-ish test I score J on tbh. When it comes to descriptions tho I could add about 75% of Keirsey's ISTP to the type description and subtract some of the ISTJ's rigidity.. that would be me. I used to be confused as to why I type as ISTJ Guardian inspector on Keirsey's test and INTP on other tests.

Keirsey’s MBTI portraits are actually pretty good, detailed. Considering that Keirsey was the first psychologist to write about MBTI cognition since Myers Briggs had no scientific nor psychological training whatsoever. They were just obsessed NFs who wanted to judge people based on their shallow interests. I think Keirsey would be LII (probably N sub). The portrait he wrote of INTP is modeled after his son, a dead on ILI (probably also N sub). I mean you can basically take his portraits and match it up to socionics types with clarity (minus the functions).

ISTJ is orderly and rigid, but I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that. So they like having things be just a certain way, I mean they’re technically “guardians” of order. And if we don’t have order, then there’s chaos so the role that ISTJ/LSI play is actually pretty crucial to stabilizing society. LSI is the stabilizer (that’s literally what the role is called) in Beta Quadra and their job is to fortify Beta Quadra values and interests and serve as huge contrast to EIE as Beta Quadra leader. They both have strong Si to stabilize. That’s something worth noting.

Keirsey’s ESTP is pretty bang on for me, except for the stupid emotive shit. It’s important to note that Keirsey made a point that the emotive stuff is to help the ESTP get what they want from the material world (Se) and it’s not for theatrics. The ESTP is actually deliberate underneath the friendly exterior and they’re most realistic type, so they’re actually calculating despite showing the world that they’re not. There’s some aspects from ENTJ fieldmarshal that suits me (like determined to win) but overall, ESTP fits me with the highest percentage (selfishness, hustler mentality, taking risks, chasing thrills, etc.). It’s interesting to note that Keirsey said some 90% of juvenile delinquents are ESTP. I don’t necessarily think that’s an exaggeration. I was a delinquent, just wasn’t ever caught and punished for it.

[SGF]

Keirsey’s MBTI portraits are actually pretty good, detailed. Considering that Keirsey was the first psychologist to write about MBTI cognition since Myers Briggs had no scientific nor psychological training whatsoever. They were just obsessed NFs who wanted to judge people based on their shallow interests. I think Keirsey would be LII (probably N sub). The portrait he wrote of INTP is modeled after his son, a dead on ILI (probably also N sub). I mean you can basically take his portraits and match it up to socionics types with clarity (minus the functions).

His ideas seem directly taken from Plato's Republic tbh. Same concepts, same structure.

ISTJ is orderly and rigid, but I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that. So they like having things be just a certain way, I mean they’re technically “guardians” of order. And if we don’t have order, then there’s chaos so the role that ISTJ/LSI play is actually pretty crucial to stabilizing society. LSI is the stabilizer (that’s literally what the role is called) in Beta Quadra and their job is to fortify Beta Quadra values and interests and serve as huge contrast to EIE as Beta Quadra leader. They both have strong Si to stabilize. That’s something worth noting.

I have always seen myself as more of a destroyer, critic and revolutionary. "Burn it all down, from the ashes we will rise again.. greater than ever!"



[Verse 1]
This city shall bring a purifying fire
For the world entire and of all of our sin
Of its beauty and splendor now and forever
So now watch us try and reconcile sword and mind

[Chorus]
A new world is calling (Immer wieder!)
For a new unfolding (Immer wieder!)
A new man crawling up from behind
A new world is calling (Immer wieder!)
For a new unfolding (Immer wieder!)
A new man crawling out into light

[Verse 2]
When all beauty is tarnished, when all thought is profaned
They'll cry out for men to invoke the iron rods again
Now this our secret flame will illuminate the night
And its sparks fly on the wind and set the world alight

[Chorus]
A new world is calling (Immer wieder!)
For a new unfolding (Immer wieder!)
A new man crawling up from behind
A new world is calling (Immer wieder!)
For a new unfolding (Immer wieder!)
A new man crawling out into light
[Bridge]
Immer wieder!
Widerstand!
Immer wieder!
Widerstand!
Immer wieder!
Widerstand!
Immer wieder!
Widerstand!

[Pre-Chorus]
A new world is calling
For a new unfolding
A new man crawling out into light

[Chorus]
A new world is calling (Immer wieder!)
For a new unfolding (Immer wieder!)
A new man crawling up from behind
A new world is calling (Immer wieder!)
For a new unfolding (Immer wieder!)
A new man crawling out into light
A new world is calling (Immer wieder!)
For a new unfolding (Immer wieder!)
A new man crawling out into light

[Lolita]

I have always seen myself as more of a destroyer, critic and revolutionary. "Burn it all down, from the ashes we will rise again.. greater than ever!"

LOL Beta Quadra is all about revolutions but even in the most warlike Quadra, LSI serves as its society’s stabilizer. You can keep the gangs wars going at a steady rate.

As Gamma Hannah Arendt has aptly assessed,
“Revolutionaries do not make revolutions! The revolutionaries are those who know when power is lying in the street and when they can pick it up. Armed uprising by itself has never yet led to revolution.”