You know you are a 5w4 when ... [How do you know your enneagram?]

[Zero]

What are 5w4s like?
Enneagram tests don't make sense. One typed me as 3w4 while i didn't identify with the description. And it seems I have a little bit of all the 9 types of enneagram which makes it confusing.

[Zero]

And how do you know if you are 5w4 or 5w6? Enneagram tests don't make sense. One typed me as 3w4 while i didn't identify with the description. And it seems I have a little bit of all the 9 types of enneagram which makes it confusing.

But I might still be 3w4...

[Simo]

And how do you know if you are 5w4 or 5w6? Enneagram tests don't make sense. One typed me as 3w4 while i didn't identify with the description. And it seems I have a little bit of all the 9 types of enneagram which makes it confusing.

Well all personality tests aren't accurate if you ask me, all enneagram tests I tried either type me as 5w4 or 5w6, but after more research I downgraded myself to 9w1 (sometimes you wouldn't like the truth but you should accept it if you want more self-awareness & growth < trying to be wise )
I can see why I test as E5 since I have alot in common with 5's descriptions which I think is because I have 5 in my tritype, still 9 at its core describe me better and after adding the tritype things start to make much more sense, so as @Aylen advised me before I think you should look into the tritype as it is what makes you see a little bit of all types in yourself < or at least that's what I think

[Zero]

Well all personality tests aren't accurate if you ask me, all enneagram tests I tried either type me as 5w4 or 5w6, but after more research I downgraded myself to 9w1 (sometimes you wouldn't like the truth but you should accept it if you want more self-awareness & growth < trying to be wise )
I can see why I test as E5 since I have alot in common with 5's descriptions which I think is because I have 5 in my tritype, still 9 at its core describe me better and after adding the tritype things start to make much more sense, so as @Aylen advised me before I think you should look into the tritype as it is what makes you see a little bit of all types in yourself < or at least that's what I think

The thing about 3w4 I identify with the most is the "I am what I do" self image and philosophy . That is exactly me. And I get depressed when I make mistakes. Even mistakes which seem unimportant to others. But I don't like showing off and boasting which seems to also be a core thing about 3w4. I don't like showing off my clothes or possessions. I even try to keep a low profile. However in the area of academic success and future/work related things I can seem a bit of a show off. It is very important for me to succeed and when I fail I don't forgive myself. Even when I pretend like it's ok with me and I have "learned a lesson ". But that might just come from being LIE.
Also I don't identify with the famous 3w4s like Madonna or tom cruise etc.

[silke]

... And it seems I have a little bit of all the 9 types of enneagram which makes it confusing.

Maybe you're a 9? That's the type that has bits of every other type in the enneagram

I haven't spotted too many 5w4s but the few I've seen around impressed me as eccentric, it's like that 4 wing is always pushing against the grain. Slavoj Zizek is one example:

[Zero]

Maybe you're a 9? That's the type that has bits of every other type in the enneagram

I haven't spotted too many 5w4s but the few I've seen around impressed me as eccentric, it's like that 4 wing is always pushing against the grain. Slavoj Zizek is one example:

Interesting video. what 5w4s say (if the guy is also 5w4) is usually what has come to my mind at some point in time and makes a lot of sense to me. but i doubt if that makes one a 5w4. also i don't think I am type 9 at all, i don't make harmony, i start debates and push people and get a lot of shit for it. actually considering the amount of times I have been called bossy i should be either 3 or 8 and probably i am not a 3 since success in the eyes of a 3 looks more like a delta thing. or at least that's what I've seen IEEs and SLIs and EIIs who are a bit bossy do. they need admiration, 8s need respect.

[Zero]

@silke Zizek is ILI right?

[Simo]

The thing about 3w4 I identify with the most is the "I am what I do" self image and philosophy . That is exactly me.

I think that's more of a E1 self-image
E3 would be "I am what I did" so they show off what they already did to others so others will reassure them of their worth so they don't feel worthless (E3's fear)
E1 is the "I am what I do" so they become perfectionist not to do something wrong which will reflect on them being wrong/bad (E1's fear)

And I get depressed when I make mistakes. Even mistakes which seem unimportant to others.

yeah this is more characteristic of E1 than E3. E1s are hard on themselves because of their core fear of being wrong, so even if you don't agree on being E1 I think you'd still have 1 in your tritype

But I don't like showing off and boasting which seems to also be a core thing about 3w4. I don't like showing off my clothes or possessions. I even try to keep a low profile.

3w4 are more reserved than 3w2 so they would be less likely to show off and boast, still they are 3 and thus they seek others affirmation so even if they are not as loud as 3w2 they will be showing off. also, being so-last may make 3w4 less likely to show off (publicly at least). However, E1s are not show offs

However in the area of academic success and future/work related things I can seem a bit of a show off.

no comments here but I guess a bit of showing off is not really bad

It is very important for me to succeed and when I fail I don't forgive myself. Even when I pretend like it's ok with me and I have "learned a lesson ". But that might just come from being LIE.

wanting success does not equal E3, I think all types want to be successful. but if E3 want to show off so they don't feel worthless then what's better than success to brag about?
and as I said before "not forgiving yourself if you fail" is more of E1 thing
LIE & E3 have a good correlation actually but being one of them doesn't mean you are the other at the same time, so how accurate do you think is your LIE typing?

Also I don't identify with the famous 3w4s like Madonna or tom cruise etc.

that doesn't necessary disprove you being 3w4, also according to Katherine and David in their "Types: Your Personality Revealed" show: people are more likely to identify with others of the same tritype even if the main type is different, than to identify with others who share the same main type but different tritype

[silke]

@silke Zizek is ILI right?

I have him typed as LII since his reasoning is static, though some believe him to be EIE. There is a typing thread on him if you wanna look it up.
I'm beginning to see a few patterns now in your style of responding that point to a certain type, but you're going to have to do an investigation into the enneagram of your own and come to your own conclusions (it's not a 9 or 5w4).

[Pallas]

I'm beginning to see a few patterns now in your style of responding that point to a certain type, but you're going to have to do an investigation into the enneagram of your own and come to your own conclusions (it's not a 9 or 5w4).

That's not their own conclusions.

[silke]

That's not their own conclusions.

Whose conclusions is it then?

[Pallas]

Whose conclusions is it then?

Yours? Right now they don't have any conclusions, although I'm sure they'll end up the same based on recent discussions.

[silke]

Yours? Right now they don't have any conclusions, although I'm sure they'll end up the same based on recent discussions.

Conclusions of another person can only be theirs, unless you have trouble seeing individual boundaries. Neither can you be "sure" what "they'll end up" with, unless you're volunteering to play the role of a psychic.

[Pallas]

Conclusions of another person can only be theirs, unless you have trouble seeing individual boundaries. Neither can you be "sure" what "they'll end up" with, unless you're volunteering to play the role of a psychic.

...That's not even a response to what I said. I probably just misinterpreted everything you said to begin. Just the parenthesis placement or something, implying that they will conclude that they're not a 5w4 or a 9 (elsewhere they've discussed being 8w7, which most self-typed LIEs tend to be).

[Zero]

I have him typed as LII since his reasoning is static, though some believe him to be EIE. There is a typing thread on him if you wanna look it up.
I'm beginning to see a few patterns now in your style of responding that point to a certain type, but you're going to have to do an investigation into the enneagram of your own and come to your own conclusions (it's not a 9 or 5w4).

currently I am reading about 8w7 and 5w6 and thinking I am a 8w5w6w7
what is the pattern? you made me curious

[Zero]

I think that's more of a E1 self-image
E3 would be "I am what I did" so they show off what they already did to others so others will reassure them of their worth so they don't feel worthless (E3's fear)

but doesn't Ni make "I am what I did" and "I am what I do" mix together into a philosophy of "life is all about working"? I don't think I ma E1, however from the 4 tests which all typed me different things, one was E1. since I don't think there is a right way to do everything. however my dad is a LSI with E1 enneagram so maybe even though I am not e1 myself, it has affected me.

yeah this is more characteristic of E1 than E3. E1s are hard on themselves because of their core fear of being wrong, so even if you don't agree on being E1 I think you'd still have 1 in your tritype

It may be a Te thing, don't you think? How does one know one's core fear?!

and as I said before "not forgiving yourself if you fail" is more of E1 thing

in every LIE description that you read, there has been mentioned "LIEs don't forgive their mistakes, but pretend to be okay with it saying things like 'only lessons learned' etc" and I think that is enough to explain my situation and I don't need an extra explanation for why I don't forgive my mistakes etc

LIE & E3 have a good correlation actually but being one of them doesn't mean you are the other at the same time, so how accurate do you think is your LIE typing?

I am now 100% sure of LIE, even though it took me 2 years to reach a conclusion.

[Simo]

but doesn't Ni make "I am what I did" and "I am what I do" mix together into a philosophy of "life is all about working"?

I think "life is all about working" is a Te philosophy

I don't think I ma E1, however from the 4 tests which all typed me different things, one was E1.

I don't trust tests even if one of them agrees with me

since I don't think there is a right way to do everything.

ones can be strict but not necessarily they think that "there is a right way to do everything", their fear as I said is of being wrong/bad so their desire is to be right & beyond criticism, so to achieve that they have high standard of how to conduct themselves or their job and since it is hard to meet those standards they may seem as though they think there is a right way to do everything.

for me as wing one those standards are on the things that's important to me only so I don't have high standards for everything, and I am not sure if that's the case for those who are type one or if they have standards for everything

however my dad is a LSI with E1 enneagram so maybe even though I am not e1 myself, it has affected me.

could be, but I lean to the idea that children can adapt their parents behaviors but not their personality or how they think, so I find it hard to believe that you are hard on yourself because your dad's influence

It may be a Te thing, don't you think?

yes, Te is result-oriented so it is not so strange if it get upset with mistakes

How does one know one's core fear?!

well every enneagram type has core fear & core desire so it is a question of which do you identify with the most

in every LIE description that you read, there has been mentioned "LIEs don't forgive their mistakes, but pretend to be okay with it saying things like 'only lessons learned' etc" and I think that is enough to explain my situation and I don't need an extra explanation for why I don't forgive my mistakes etc

well I can't argue with this, so I would like to see what another LIE think, so what do you think of this, @Adam Strange?

[Aylen]

Well all personality tests aren't accurate if you ask me, all enneagram tests I tried either type me as 5w4 or 5w6, but after more research I downgraded myself to 9w1 (sometimes you wouldn't like the truth but you should accept it if you want more self-awareness & growth < trying to be wise )
I can see why I test as E5 since I have alot in common with 5's descriptions which I think is because I have 5 in my tritype, still 9 at its core describe me better and after adding the tritype things start to make much more sense, so as @Aylen advised me before I think you should look into the tritype as it is what makes you see a little bit of all types in yourself < or at least that's what I think

I think of 9w1 as an upgrade.

[Adam Strange]

well I can't argue with this, so I would like to see what another LIE think, so what do you think of this, @Adam Strange?

@Simo, regarding my making mistakes? When I make mistakes with respect to people, I feel ashamed but try to gloss over it. I will backtrack or slightly withdraw and then will advance and try to make amends, to indicate in a concrete way that I'm sorry without actually stating my obvious transgression.

When I make mistakes regarding things or processes, I feel that it's just an inevitable part of the learning process. I also invariably feel like an idiot, and I resolve to figuring out exactly what went wrong so I will never repeat that particular mistake, or any of it's branching possibility-linked corollaries.


*EDIT* Incidentally, that's actually how I see the world; as a branching set of possibility-linked futures, where one of them can be selected by using Se to see what really exists (what there is to work with right now), Fi to pick one that I value, and Te to judge the probable consequences of my actions and to choose the actions which will efficiently bring it about.

[Simo]

@Simo, regarding my making mistakes?

sorry I guess I wasn't very clear, what do you think of this statement "LIEs don't forgive their mistakes, but pretend to be okay with it saying things like 'only lessons learned' etc"?

When I make mistakes with respect to people, I feel ashamed but try to gloss over it. I will backtrack or slightly withdraw and then will advance and try to make amends, to indicate in a concrete way that I'm sorry without actually stating my obvious transgression.

When I make mistakes regarding things or processes, I feel that it's just an inevitable part of the learning process. I also invariably feel like an idiot, and I resolve to figuring out exactly what went wrong so I will never repeat that particular mistake, or any of it's branching possibility-linked corollaries.

was this always your response to making mistakes or did it change with time?

*EDIT* Incidentally, that's actually how I see the world; as a branching set of possibility-linked futures, where one of them can be selected by using Se to see what really exists (what there is to work with right now), Fi to pick one that I value, and Te to judge the probable consequences of my actions and to choose the actions which will efficiently bring it about.

interesting worldview

[Froody Blue Gem]

You know you're E5 or have a strong 5 fix, when you can spend days-weeks on end and be perfectly happy. You choose to block out time that you can spend, me, myself, and I time. Other people don't quite understand how someone can be wired like this but you've always been like this.

And even when you've been away from people for a long time, people can still invade your alone time.

Well, okay, this is not the defining aspect of a 5. A certain withdrawnness and hoarding knowledge, and operating on a level of anxiety. It doesn't have to be a STEM or math field, it can be the arts, a TV show, cooking, just anything that your 5ness finds interesting and chooses to become an expert on. But knowing about this thing, a sense of security comes through this. Feeling helpless in situations when you don't know or can't explain, and having a great curiosity for life are all 5ish things. What is mentioned above is a withdrawn triad trait, 5s have the ability to observe from the outside, and life experiences and anxiety have made us/5s in general resort to this defense mechanism.

It would make senses for some to identify with E3 and E5, they are both competency types that repress. And 3w4s are the more withdrawn of the two 3 wing subtypes.

According to Wisdom Of the Enneagram, everyone has a little of all of the types in them. It's the core fear that defines one the most that is one's core type. It may take someone being at one's worst to cover what that type is.