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    I can't wait for my protein synthesis mechanism to be altered forever with reprogramming how it functions.

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    It's here. Wowsers. So the virus isn't a bioweapon. You have such lack of faith in essentially God's power.

    I'm not even religious, and I can see what created it is more or less God. Random chance and God are essentially the same thing.

    But yeah I say that because it's usually the demographic that believes in such things to say such news is true. There's some things that are indeed human attempts to creat bioweapons. Apparently there was a conspiracy against Fidel Castro to give him cancer. But Wuhan has zero motivation. It's like building a nuke to nuke nobody. A complete waste of time. China doesn't want to kill everyone indiscriminately, that's just not how nations work, and if it was a biological weapon, it'd be worse than the spanish flu.

  3. #683

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alomoes View Post
    It's here. Wowsers. So the virus isn't a bioweapon. You have such lack of faith in essentially God's power.

    I'm not even religious, and I can see what created it is more or less God. Random chance and God are essentially the same thing.

    But yeah I say that because it's usually the demographic that believes in such things to say such news is true. There's some things that are indeed human attempts to creat bioweapons. Apparently there was a conspiracy against Fidel Castro to give him cancer. But Wuhan has zero motivation. It's like building a nuke to nuke nobody. A complete waste of time. China doesn't want to kill everyone indiscriminately, that's just not how nations work, and if it was a biological weapon, it'd be worse than the spanish flu.
    I do not think this virus came from nature.

    The satellite photos of the WIV being cordoned off in August, and a whole years worth of reading the underground research, lead me to the conclusion WuFlu is a GMO.

    The why and how of it spreading are up for debate. But not the particle itself. Zero doubts its a GMO.

    I also think there are major issues in the current modal of evolution and natural selection. Gene studies have ripped apart the classic like beats like, and small mutational changes lead to new form and function and new species. Its to complex to get into right now and tbh I don't care for writing it all out.

    I'm also not alone in thinking it. Lots of articulate and educated others are abandoning Darwinism as an explanatory model. There is such a huge disconnect between allele expression and the actual supposed mechanism of change via small gene mutation and gene transfer during sexual and asexual selection and germ theory of evolution.

    You have to understand that several core concepts like divergent, parallel and convergent evolution seem great at this "large scale" level, but at the microscopic, nearly abstract level of gene and protein synthesis, the modal breaks down. How is it that several complex mutations are needed and often in tangent, in order for protein expression to occur that will change form and functions, and these pathways are said to have happened by chance mutation, and apparently this chance happens frequently in several species in order to all create the same physical adaptation.

    "the pressure caused the mutation to give some benefit. the mutation just happened to arrive at the right moment, how "perfect""

    Darwinism is great for like large body parts in the abiotic and biotic changing landscape, but terrible for justifying the unlikelihood of it happening in the base machinery of the cell and the cell in the entire organism and the organism in the entire population.

    There are hidden x factors. The pathways people propose all these steps and intermediate steps happen requires a belief in magic and chanciness. This isn't a small thing and it strikes at the heart of all higher education in biology and evolution.

    A lot of it has to do with the pursuit of naturalist answers. It can't be true or can be true because its the best naturalist answer we can come up. I think the wuflu debacle shows to me just how much scientist are technicians and operators at heart. That the modal might be wrong at the epistemological level and the new evidence that points away from gradualism (even the sped up version after major extinctions) is undeniable.

    How does sudden changes occur in order to adapt, without the seed of said energy not inherent there in the first place?

    You have to understand that FLUKE is science's God right now. I'm sure you already do. Fluke comes first before the order. But lot's of evidence is arriving now that says FLUKE, or chaos, might not even be real, or the prime principle before all the rest.

    How is it that people can change the effect of random number generators just by thinking about the outcome?

    How is it that quantum entanglement had evolved inside the bird's sight in order to help them navigate the magnetic fields of the Earth to find North and South?

    How is it that gene expression just happened to become more complex and sophisticated just "because it must - because the machinery of life is blindly tossing darts out and blindly hits a bulls eye and it by some wondrous principle works more often then not and we are the result of time and number of opportunities to get it right". Gene expression had a fluke successional pathway to make the eye of the bird perceive magnetic north using quantum effects in particles inside their body and this only happened by small minute gradual changes WITHOUT DIRECTION that built this machinery and it was encoded into the sex genes to be transferred to another generation.

    I know this sounds flippant but, this is the actual belief system of millions of the smartest people on this planet. Like they totally believe that that this sheer complex thing arose from simple organic chemicals WITHOUT DIRECTION. I mean like I said, on paper, at the macro scale darwinism is awesome, but its the most shit way of explaining the tiny microscope level.
    Last edited by raTG13; 11-16-2020 at 06:18 PM.

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    Wherever the virus came from, the Trump news machine made it worse by denying that it was a threat.

    “Their last dying words are, ‘This can’t be happening. It’s not real.’ And when they should be... Facetiming their families, they’re filled with anger and hatred.”

    https://twitter.com/NewDay/status/1328319845012824065

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Wherever the virus came from, the Trump news machine made it worse by denying that it was a threat.

    “Their last dying words are, ‘This can’t be happening. It’s not real.’ And when they should be... Facetiming their families, they’re filled with anger and hatred.”

    https://twitter.com/NewDay/status/1328319845012824065
    Everybody flubbed it. At this point I don't care. Its here to stay and I think we need to stop being a bunch of pussies fetishizing the infection numbers and chastising normal human behaviour. We also need to understand that "leaders" move goal posts all the time...thats why they are leaders lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alomoes View Post
    But Wuhan has zero motivation. It's like building a nuke to nuke nobody. A complete waste of time. China doesn't want to kill everyone indiscriminately, that's just not how nations work, and if it was a biological weapon, it'd be worse than the spanish flu.
    I don't necessarily support the idea that it escaped from a lab. I'm also not against the theory. I simply don't know. But it doesn't have to be a bioweapon / intentional and still could be a lab fabrication (for research, for vaccines as some people think, etc). A bioweapon is the least plausible explanation in my opinion. Even if it were the truth behind this virus, I wouldn' t believe it. But there are way more options between random chance / God throwing dice and planned, orchestrated biological warfare.

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    SARS-CoV to SARS-CoV- 2 through Gain of function research: 2008 to Now

    Here's a real kicker of an episode from 12 years ago on This Week in Virology (TWiV), it was their 10th episode: TWiV 10: Bats, elephants, and AIDS
    December 4 2008
    "Vincent, Dick, and Alan chat about reconstruction of a bat SARS-like coronavirus"
    The paper they discuss is here on PNAS: "Synthetic recombinant bat SARS-like coronavirus is infectious in cultured cells and in mice"
    " Here, we report the design, synthesis, and recovery of the largest synthetic replicating life form, a 29.7-kb bat severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS)-like coronavirus (Bat-SCoV), a likely progenitor to the SARS-CoV epidemic. To test a possible route of emergence from the noncultivable Bat-SCoV to human SARS-CoV, we designed a consensus Bat-SCoV genome and replaced the Bat-SCoV Spike receptor-binding domain (RBD) with the SARS-CoV RBD (Bat-SRBD). Bat-SRBD was infectious in cell culture and in mice and was efficiently neutralized by antibodies specific for both bat and human CoV Spike proteins. Rational design, synthesis, and recovery of hypothetical recombinant viruses can be used to investigate mechanisms of transspecies movement of zoonoses and has great potential to aid in rapid public health responses to known or predicted emerging microbial threats."
    November 26, 2008


    Hmm... Weird. Also one of the authors is Ralph Baric - the author of such later papers as the "A SARS-like cluster of circulating bat coronaviruses shows potential for human emergence"(published Oct 2015) co-authored with Dr. Zhengli-Li Shi.


    • From their 2015 paper linked above:

    "Author Contributions: V.D.M. designed, coordinated and performed experiments, completed analysis and wrote the manuscript. B.L.Y. designed the infectious clone and recovered chimeric viruses; S.A. completed neutralization assays; L.E.G. helped perform mouse experiments; T.S. and J.A.P. completed mouse experiments and plaque assays; X.-Y.G. performed pseudotyping experiments; K.D. generated structural figures and predictions; E.F.D. generated phylogenetic analysis; R.L.G. completed RNA analysis; S.H.R. provided primary HAE cultures; A.L. and W.A.M. provided critical monoclonal antibody reagents; and Z.-L.S. [Zhengli-Li Shi] provided SHC014 spike sequences and plasmids. R.S.B. [RALPH S BARIC] designed experiments and wrote manuscript."

    Also here's an excerpt from a November 2008 Wired article: https://www.wired.com/2008/11/synthetic-virus/
    "In the case of SARS, which killed nearly 800 people before being contained, scientists think it came from bats, but have been unable to keep the bat version alive in laboratory cell cultures. Denison's team used the genetic sequence of bat SARS to build the virus. Bat SARS doesn't normally infect people, but the researchers added a critical tweak: a gene present only in the human version of the virus. The new version flourished in human cell cultures, suggesting that a mutation in the gene, known as Bat-SRBD, was responsible for SARS' lethal spread. The new virus did not kill mice, however. Other genetic differences between the synthetic and natural strains can now be studied to learn what makes SARS so virulent, said Denison, and the technique applied to other viruses similar to SARS. These include the Ebola, Hanta, Nipah and Chikunguya viruses, all of which originated in animals and are lethal to people.
    "You could get to a point where, within a couple weeks of an epidemic being identified, you've already grown and generated viruses for the study of immune response," said Denison.
    Again, this is an articled published in Wired over 12 years ago.

    Here is a very intriguing paper published in Nature, article dated JANUARY 10 2020, authored by the same Ralph Baric and Mark Denison (amongst others from the 2008 PNAS paper) : 'Comparative therapeutic efficacy of remdesivir and combination lopinavir, ritonavir, and interferon beta against MERS-CoV. very convenient timing, considering SARS-CoV-2 wasn't even announced for another week.



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    Yet these are the very same scientists who claim that Sars-Cov-2 came from nature and couldn't have escaped from the WIV lab. As they claimed in Feb and March. Although Zheng-li did speculate it might have come from her lab, she quickly released another paper defiantly denying any such prior knowledge of the virus until after the whistle blow Dr. Lee.

    The very people working on making bat coronaviruses more infectious by playing around and swapping receptor binding motifs from human viruses to make them more infectious for over a decade. The very people who know that it absolutely can be genetically engineered and that it absolutely can come from the lab.


    There is no evidence of a natural origin of Sars-cov-2, besides the ratg13 cousin conveniently entered into the database in March, although it was supposedly first discovered in 2012. Odd for Zheng-li to have been so forgetful, a character trait she is not known for. But, there is an incredible paper trail of "coincidences" indicating that they were working on this franken-virus all along.

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    If you want to show me something interesting, find out who started this, I am intrigued to know where it started. I assume this will inevitably be unknown, as I have looked, and I don't know.

    BTW, keeping a bat version alive is wrong, viruses are not alive. They're like little biological machines. Similar to ribosomes.
    Last edited by Alomoes; 11-28-2020 at 12:45 PM.

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    Libs and conservatives all be mad about China's imminent takeover on the world stage while their own countries remain locked in stagnation and look for anything to use as slander against China.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy View Post
    Libs and conservatives all be mad about China's imminent takeover on the world stage while their own countries remain locked in stagnation and look for anything to use as slander against China.

    News flash, not everyone is American, nor cares about American politics, nor is affected by American politics in the slightest.

    People can have multiple opinions about the same topic. Marvelling at China's Civilization, while simultaneously understanding the Country's ambitions, and brutal, destructive to the human spirit Communist society, is something those with a modicum of intelligence can do.

    Focusing on the Left vs Right troubles in America has been the whole this issue this year, as it took the heat off China for their making this mess in the first place.

    If you are really interested in beginning to understand China, I suggest Chris Chappel youtube channel - China uncensored, "China in focus" for news stories, serpentza YouTube (South African lived in China for a decade or more). This is a society that will black mail, slander, and destroy your life if you don't conform. Look what happened to Jackie Chan - CCP darling, even at the loss of his own reputation. He misstepped on Hong Kong, and last year the CCP confiscated his mansion. There is an entire world beyond American MSM.

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    So it begins.

    Hopefully you guys have your Health Passport stamped and approved.

    Don't want the COVID-19 vaccine? You could lose access to normal life, says U.K. minister

    Vaccine voluntary, but restaurants and bars may not let you in without one, says Britain's vaccine minister

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/uk-vac...cked-1.5822648



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    The Roots of the COVID-19 Pandemic

    By Lt. Col. (res.) Dr. Dany ShohamDecember 14, 2020


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    COVID-19 image by Fernando Zhiminaicela via Pixabay


    BESA Center Perspectives Paper No. 1,847, December 14, 2020

    EXECUTIVE SUMMARY: There has been a notable shift in thinking on the genomic origin and direct source of the virus that sparked the COVID-19 pandemic. While the possibility of a natural contagion has not been ruled out, the alternative of an unnatural if primarily accidental contagion has gathered momentum, and with good reason.


    The question of the genomic origin and direct source of the virus that set off the COVID-19 pandemic is being addressed in parallel by both science and intelligence agencies, with each using its own tools to compile hypotheses and draw conclusions. The genomic origin of the index virus (the strain that infected Patient Zero) has been determined to be a Chinese bat virus that underwent extensive pre-adaptation to humans, including continual transmissibility, prior to infecting Patient Zero. The open question is how, where, and when such exceptional genomic pre-adaptation took place.


    On the surface, it appears that in this instance the probability of human intervention (of whatever kind) is higher than naturally occurring, spontaneous evolutionary adaptation, though it is difficult to comparatively quantify those two probabilities.


    Another critical issue concerns significant mismatches and errors that occurred at the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV) and collateral Chinese institutions both in Wuhan and elsewhere in China during the decade preceding the onset of the pandemic, as well as thereafter. A question arising from that inquiry is whether those
    mismatches and errors were cases of negligence or deliberate obfuscation. The latter unfortunately appears to be predominant.


    The list of anomalies is long. It includes:


    • scientific papers with incoherent data/findings
    • unexplained gaps, inconsistencies, and contradictions
    • meaningless and twisted chronologies
    • illegitimate non-transparency
    • elimination and distortion of records and databases
    • obscuring and possible destruction of existing viruses (including the index virus) and genomic material
    • pressure put on disobedient scientists, physicians, and officials
    • disappearance of key persons
    • expedient interchangeability between military/defense and civilian institutions (and other entities).


    All this misconduct was allegedly meant to serve one principal purpose: to hamper the tracing of the roots of the index virus. These deliberate obfuscations collectively form a powerful argument in support of the unnatural contagion concept.

    In further support of this argument, deliberate and systematic obfuscations about the real epidemic impact of the virus during the first months of the outbreak were recently unveiled in detail across 117 pages of leaked documents from the Hubei Provincial Center for Disease Control and Prevention (Wuhan is the capital of Hubei Province). These documents are largely marked classified and for internal use only.

    No reference is made in the documents to the roots of the virus. Curiously, however, they do mention “facilities at a bacterial and toxic species preservation center.” “Bacterial” could refer to “microbial” (including viruses) and “toxic” to “virulent.”


    This debate is very complicated and contains the potential for explosive revelations on many levels, but intelligence communities around the world have stayed largely silent on the matter. This is both intriguing and unsurprising. Several Western countries, as well as Russia, India, Japan, and Australia, had formed intelligence estimates as early as January 2020 but kept their conclusions quiet.


    The very persistence of intelligence agencies’ silence implies that they judge the initial contagion to have been unnatural. Had they concluded that the pandemic resulted from a natural contagion, they would probably have made that conclusion public. The US administration did indicate, several months ago, that unnatural contagion was likely, but no such statement has been formally released by US intelligence. At the levels of NATO and the “Five Eyes,” thorough intelligence estimates have likely been produced internally but they too have not been made public.


    On the scientific level, as long as time passes without identification of a non-laboratory animal—with roughly the entirety of its viral genome—as the primary host of SARS-CoV-2, the argument that the initial contagion was unnatural gains indirect credibility. (It is fairly clear that the mink, while an important non-laboratory animal host, was not the direct source of the index virus.)


    Independently, many scientists from various countries around the world, including Russia, maintain that the initial contagion was unnatural. They include, for example, Prof. Joseph Tritto of Italy, who is president of the World Academy of Biomedical Sciences and Technologies (an NGO founded in 1997 under the auspices of UNESCO). He has contended that:
    providing [by China] the virus [that infected Patient Zero] would have meant recognizing that SARS-CoV-2 was created in the laboratory. The presence of certain genomic inserts in a virus that developed in nature could never occur. The experiments at WIV attracted the interest of the Chinese military and medical-biological sector, which deals with biological weapons… Thus, physicians and biologists who belong to the Chinese political-military sphere joined the experiments… It is reasonable to think that Prof. Shi Zhengli (the principal investigator of WIV) acted only from the point of view of scientific prestige, without however taking into account the risks in terms of security and the political-military interests that the research would have aroused. …[T]he virus [was] created by means of genetic engineering in a military-supervised lab of WIV, and accidentally leaked.

    Within the intelligence dimension, Tritto said in August that “negotiations are underway between the intelligence agencies of five countries—the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and Japan—and China. Perhaps the former, during diplomatic negotiations, would be willing to defer the Chinese responsibilities of which they have proof in exchange for the possibility of obtaining the [index] virus [in order] to develop a universal vaccine.”

    In terms of vaccine development, it is of note that the most productive effort in China was conducted at the Wuhan Institute of Biological Products, a facility linked to the defense establishment that has been working with SARS-like viruses at its National Engineering Technology Research Center for Combined Vaccines, in collaboration with WIV, since 2017.

    Like Prof. Tritto, senior Russian scientist Prof. Peter Chumakov (a member of the Russian Academy of Sciences) said Chinese scientists at WIV had taken extremely dangerous steps during their studies of tentative vaccines, including inserts in the genome, that gave the virus the ability to infect human cells. He added: “No one excludes [the possibility] that behind the scientists stood curators who [pointed their] actions in another direction that they needed.” Various Chinese military institutes outside Wuhan also worked with important SARS-like bat viruses, often in collaboration with WIV.


    The independent scientific argument posed by Italian, Russian, and many other scientists weakens the analyses that support natural contagion and strengthens the plausibility of the argument for unnatural contagion. Their reasoning and concept have been disputed but not convincingly refuted.


    There is also speculation surrounding a mysterious, highly virulent, pneumonia-causing bat SARS-like virus that was in all probability isolated in 2012 in China from miners but that has strangely not been registered out in the open. The WIV was involved in that affair, too. Prof. Stuart Newman, a leading expert at New York Medical College, called it “the best-sourced explanation yet of the origins of SARS-CoV-2.” It is probably not the sole possible root of the pandemic virus, but it nonetheless deserves special attention as it might have been the primordial key virus.


    It would be extremely difficult to incriminate China conclusively as the developer of the index virus—whether or not it was created as a bioweapon, and whether or not it was intentionally released. Doing so could cause chaotic geopolitical polarization and prompt demands for retaliation against China. Refraining from any form of retaliation would be unreasonable if there were indeed conclusive proof, but retaliation could also wreak havoc on a massive scale. A minimized blaming of China as guilty of a preventable accidental leakage of a naturally derived virus held in an academic lab is less likely to wreak such havoc, but the likelihood that this is in fact what the intelligence agencies have determined is decreasing with time. And even if that was the extent of China’s error, its devastating outcome—the spread of the virus across the rest of the world, with all the attendant consequences—remains.


    Beyond the question of the mode through which the initial pandemic virus came into existence is the matter of compiling all possible vital information for developing an upgraded vaccine, anti-serum, and drug. Deciphering the roots of SARS-CoV-2 is hence highly desirable for many reasons, a main one being the need to fully comprehend the intrinsic sophistication of the virus—whether natural or man-made—so as to incapacitate it. It is also essential to trace the roots of the virus completely in order to prevent the emergence of similar pathogens. In all senses (both scientific and intelligence-based), the roots of the virus will have to be uncovered thoroughly and objectively. This will be a global task.


    One oddity is the uncanny clustering of certain peculiar properties, the common denominator of which is the exceptionally amplified and/or pathogenic affinities of the index virus toward humans. The likelihood that such a clustering took place naturally in the bio-geographic region of Wuhan is faint, but the likelihood that it took place inside WIV is high in view of the type of experiments on coronaviruses conducted there for years. This is further supported by a large variety of collateral occurrences (the above-cited examples of misconduct), which should neither be ignored nor regarded as coincidental. The complicated interplay between science and intelligence is expected to objectively account for what occurred, but geopolitical forces and geostrategic vectors might hinder progress toward that clarity.


    If the only thing at issue was genomic origin or the direct source of the index virus, the whole matter would be much simpler. But the combination of the two supports the likelihood of an unnatural contagion. Close examination of the combination will prove much more meaningful than separate examinations of the two issues.

    T
    he roots of the pandemic virus are schematically analyzed in the following table.

    Possible variations of the modes underlying the generation and appearance of SARS-CoV-2 in Wuhan, 2019, and their presumed likelihood interrelations



    Table created by Dany Shoham

    * The direct source represents the course through which Patient Zero contracted the virus.
    ** The genomic origin represents the way in which the genome of the virus that infected Patient Zero formed.
    *** Within the context under discussion, intentional release is basically regarded as unlikely at this point in time.
    # Serial passages of capable precursor virus(es) in certain tissue cultures and/or lab animals, conducted in Wuhan.
    ## There could be, in principle, a combination of genetic engineering and evolvement via passages, in Wuhan.
    The purple arrows represent ascending likelihoods (at different rates which are not indicated, except that intentional release is considered of lowest likelihood), while the green arrows represent roughly equivalent likelihoods.
    Notably, each of the three variations related to accidental leakage (reading the table vertically) has two alternative sub-variations: either that the virus was the subject of academic study or that it was explored as a potential bioweapon. This is still an open question. A definite precursor virus has not yet been found for any of the mentioned variations and sub-variations (10 in total). New scientific or intelligence findings might clarify the assessment summarized in the table. Only time will tell.
    View PDF
    Lt. Col. (res.) Dr. Dany Shoham, a microbiologist and an expert on chemical and biological warfare in the Middle East, is a senior research associate at the Begin-Sadat Center for Strategic Studies. He is a former senior intelligence analyst in the IDF and the Israeli Defense Ministry.

    https://besacenter.org/perspectives-papers/covid-pandemic-roots/

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    It's known about high spreading of covid in RF (25% of people in July and mb >50% now). It was said about ~2% mortality rate of covid in RF. But factual mortality rate has arised on 0.1% only, is same as in 2011 year and lower than in 2010. Hence, covid has no high mortality rate, it's similar to common gripp as was known since Diamond Princess ship.
    Then based on what is now destroyed mass education, are reducing production, significant limitations of people's life and doubtful vaccines are forced? If covid is not much dangerous by the factual numbers?
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Last edited by khcs; 12-16-2020 at 10:19 PM.
    This is the comment you are looking for



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    You guys are still back there?

    I was talking about this way back in April and May. Its old news now.

    The next thing is wuflu is a retrovirus.

    1. Retrovirus.
    2. origins.

    Those are the primary concerns that every other concern stems from. All Government's actions when seen from the light of these two facts make complete sense. Having an airborne retrovirus coronavirus leads to the next question--> how is that possible?

    Do you really want to take your chances on getting a chronic airborne disease that is coded into your genes, like Hep B, HIV, herpes?


    SARS-CoV-2 RNA reverse-transcribed and integrated into the human genome

    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1...12.12.422516v1

    Sure, you survived the initial infection, congrats, wasn't that hard. Now you have permanent Wuflu in your body. Who knows maybe years down the road it flairs up again? THIS is the reason the MSM and Governments shove the "cases" into our faces. They can't explicitly tell us because telling people they have caught a airborne retrovirus leads to the next question, how the hell can a respiratory coronavirus also be a retrovirus that hides out in your cells? (because it was GMOd). We are in a cold War, guys.

    And btw, the mRNA vaccine is looking like it prevents symptoms, NOT infection and transmission.

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    Quote Originally Posted by timber View Post
    You guys are still back there?

    I was talking about this way back in April and May. Its old news now.

    The next thing is wuflu is a retrovirus.

    1. Retrovirus.
    2. origins.

    Those are the primary concerns that every other concern stems from. All Government's actions when seen from the light of these two facts make complete sense. Having an airborne retrovirus coronavirus leads to the next question--> how is that possible?

    Do you really want to take your chances on getting a chronic airborne disease that is coded into your genes, like Hep B, HIV, herpes?


    SARS-CoV-2 RNA reverse-transcribed and integrated into the human genome

    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1...12.12.422516v1

    Sure, you survived the initial infection, congrats, wasn't that hard. Now you have permanent Wuflu in your body. Who knows maybe years down the road it flairs up again? THIS is the reason the MSM and Governments shove the "cases" into our faces. They can't explicitly tell us because telling people they have caught a airborne retrovirus leads to the next question, how the hell can a respiratory coronavirus also be a retrovirus that hides out in your cells? (because it was GMOd). We are in a cold War, guys.

    And btw, the mRNA vaccine is looking like it prevents symptoms, NOT infection and transmission.
    Bruh have you even read the comments on that link lmao

    The evidence provided in the paper does not support the conclusions, and the most likely explanation is PCR artefacts. I highly recommend this preprint be taken down.


    The evidence supporting the claims is not compelling and consists of (1) observation of chimeric transcripts of SARS-CoV-2 (a common artifact of RNA-Seq) and (2) correlation (not causation) of LINE element expression with infection. Weak IMO. The genomic sequences could be inferred from the chimeras and then confirmed. However there is no evidence of the actual genomic integration sites.


    As others with more experience in Bio-informatics than me have pointed out the chimeric reads reported here are likely an artifact of the sequencing method. The authors have also used a very artificial cell culture system to specifically drive the phenomenon they were seeking and even then have not actually demonstrated integration of virus into the genome (this would as others have pointed out require sequencing of the DNA of the cells rather than the RNA to capture the integration sites between cellular and viral DNA).There does seem to be a case (in general) that viral infections in cells lead to increased expression of retroelements (we have reported on this ourselves) but in no case that I am aware of has anyone demonstrated that this then leads to integration of the virus (or the retroelement) into the genome. In people the accumulation of new retroelement integrations is a very rare occurrence indeed (these types of evolutionary events are measured in millions of years, not an individuals life span) . This is not the case in species with more recent and active retroviruses (such as pigs, sheep, koalas, mice, chickens) but even in those species they do not typically pick up or insert sequences from other virus classes (these types of events are even rarer than new retroelement insertions). The mechanisms speculated here have also never been known to occur with HIV infections in people (an incredibly well studied retroviral infection).
    This paper certainly does not demonstrate that SARs-Cov-2 is or is likely to become integrated in a human genome.
    ETC ETC

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingslayer View Post
    Bruh have you even read the comments on that link lmao







    ETC ETC
    I read them. Majority are not worthy information. Food for thought, but still not enough to discredit the techniques and conclusions found in paper. Its the same type of style you see when people attack Dr. Li's work.

    I'm sure if they want to look for the genomic integration sites that will be the next study on the table.

    The suggestion the paper be taken down is also preposterous and follows the current trend of deleting information and speculation that is not approved by apparently authoritative sources, facebook checkers being one of them. CDC being another.

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    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020...what-does-mean

    The coronavirus may sometimes slip its genetic material into human chromosomes—but what does that mean?


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    SARS-nov-cov , covid-19 = airborne retrovirus?

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    Quote Originally Posted by timber View Post
    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020...what-does-mean

    The coronavirus may sometimes slip its genetic material into human chromosomes—but what does that mean?
    I'm not a geneticist, but supposedly what makes HIV so deadly is that it can hide inside immune system cells and be completely inactive for years, then suddenly they activate, mutate, and destroy the immune system cells they were hiding in; this causes compounding serious problems.
    1. When the virus hibernates in a cell, it can't be detected, unless you were to go into the cell. This means the immune system has no way to know a cell is infected and makes it hard to develop a non-invasive way of knowing as well.
    2. Because the virus hibernates for long periods, when it comes out of hibernation the body has powered down its efforts to kill the virus.
    3. The virus is basically pieces of RNA that needs to become DNA in the attacked cell and then that DNA gets injected into the DNA of the cell; then when the virus becomes active it causes the cell to produce more original RNA capsules of the virus until the cells dies and the RNA capsules find another victim cell; because of all of this transcription and translation going on, it is highly prone to error and causes high rates of mutation, so even though your immune system memory cells might know how to find and kill it from a previous infection, that may not help for the newly mutated one. And you can have more than one mutation active at a time.
    4. Because HIV can hibernate in immune system memory cells, it can destroy and erase the immune system's memory of how to defeat previous infections, making each attack potentially deadly without some way to hinder its growth and give your immune system time to kill it, which I think is how HIV drugs work.

    so...if coronavirus has the same capability, that could be very serious. However, it's unlikely that it would hide in immune system cells like HIV does, since HIV is pretty unique in that regard (I think measles is the only other virus that can attack and kill your immune system memory cells). Most viruses target specific cells and require long chains of mutations that require lots of time to start targeting new cells in the body and I think COVID prefers the lungs. Then again, they say the virus can attack many cells and spread to different parts of the body, so I don't know. But I doubt it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody View Post
    I'm not a geneticist, but supposedly what makes HIV so deadly is that it can hide inside immune system cells and be completely inactive for years, then suddenly they activate, mutate, and destroy the immune system cells they were hiding in; this causes compounding serious problems.
    1. When the virus hibernates in a cell, it can't be detected, unless you were to go into the cell. This means the immune system has no way to know a cell is infected and makes it hard to develop a non-invasive way of knowing as well.
    2. Because the virus hibernates for long periods, when it comes out of hibernation the body has powered down its efforts to kill the virus.
    3. The virus is basically pieces of RNA that needs to become DNA in the attacked cell and then that DNA gets injected into the DNA of the cell; then when the virus becomes active it causes the cell to produce more original RNA capsules of the virus until the cells dies and the RNA capsules find another victim cell; because of all of this transcription and translation going on, it is highly prone to error and causes high rates of mutation, so even though your immune system memory cells might know how to find and kill it from a previous infection, that may not help for the newly mutated one. And you can have more than one mutation active at a time.
    4. Because HIV can hibernate in immune system memory cells, it can destroy and erase the immune system's memory of how to defeat previous infections, making each attack potentially deadly without some way to hinder its growth and give your immune system time to kill it, which I think is how HIV drugs work.

    so...if coronavirus has the same capability, that could be very serious. However, it's unlikely that it would hide in immune system cells like HIV does, since HIV is pretty unique in that regard (I think measles is the only other virus that can attack and kill your immune system memory cells). Most viruses target specific cells and require long chains of mutations that require lots of time to start targeting new cells in the body and I think COVID prefers the lungs. Then again, they say the virus can attack many cells and spread to different parts of the body, so I don't know. But I doubt it.
    That it is doing it has already been demonstrated [reverse transcribing parts of its information into nuclear chromosomes]. What it means and how much genetic material message from the virus is getting into the nucleus is still yet to be known.

    Is it actually HIV? No. It can't do the same things. But consider, covid does enter CD4 cells and other T cells, just like HIV, and it also reproduces in these immune cells among many others. And what we are seeing from many of the infected, symptomatic, but not killed, is autoimmune like disorder after recovery. Also non-clearance as per antibody-& PCR testing.

    People are speculating its airborne autoimmune disease. Perhaps hiding out in cells like HIV can and years later activated? Much to still know.

    Covid attacks anything with ACE2 receptors, it also passes the blood brain barrier. It can infect immune cells, white blood cells included.

    Further reading:

    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1...12.14.422714v1

    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1...05.24.111823v1

    More info on the "evolved" aspects of the viral shell [Bioenigineered parts by Zheng-Li Shi and team at the WIV, of which they published MANY articles in the past few years discussing these exact techniques of furon site inclusion as well as D614G]

    (But sorry, don't investigate nor question, its racists and conspiratory like thinking and only uneducated ignoramuses question mainstream narratives.)

    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.22.351569v1

    Oh and another HIV similarity--->
    SARS-CoV-2 invades host cells via a novel route: CD147-spike protein

    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1...03.14.988345v1

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    The FDA-approved drug ivermectin inhibits the replication of SARS-CoV-2 in vitro

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...66354220302011

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    Does coronavirus linger in the body?

    https://theconversation.com/does-cor...sticles-142878

    Am I immune to covid-19 if I have antibodies?


    https://theconversation.com/am-i-imm...ibodies-140524

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    Quote Originally Posted by timber View Post
    That it is doing it has already been demonstrated [reverse transcribing parts of its information into nuclear chromosomes]. What it means and how much genetic material message from the virus is getting into the nucleus is still yet to be known.
    I'm not really sure what the problem is here. As far as I understand, viruses use the nucleus to multiply and eventually kill the cell they have invaded. Whether they are injected in the genome to do this or not will still have the same effect. The cell will become invaded and either die or be killed by the immune system.

    Is it actually HIV? No. It can't do the same things. But consider, covid does enter CD4 cells and other T cells, just like HIV, and it also reproduces in these immune cells among many others. And what we are seeing from many of the infected, symptomatic, but not killed, is autoimmune like disorder after recovery. Also non-clearance as per antibody-& PCR testing.

    People are speculating its airborne autoimmune disease. Perhaps hiding out in cells like HIV can and years later activated? Much to still know.

    Covid attacks anything with ACE2 receptors, it also passes the blood brain barrier. It can infect immune cells, white blood cells included.
    I'm a little skeptical about the research out there though. Most people have very mild infections. It may be that COVID's ability to attack the immune system is either very slow or mild or only certain people with genetic receptors get attacked. Every person is a different genetic mix of different reactions to any virus and it seems strange when media harp on outliers to make a worst case for infection. I guarantee the scientists or doctors that find this stuff don't draw the same conclusions.

    About hiding, I think that's just speculation right now. Worst case is it acts like HIV; best case, it multiplies immediately and is killed out in the first infection. I think most are expecting because it transmits so easily, it will be like the flu, constantly moving through the population until it mutates just enough to get passed the immune system and cause a seasonal occurrence.

    About passing the blood brain barrier, I wonder why there has only been very few people with neurological problems or issues. Seems inconclusive; there could be other secondary causes resulting from the infection or a small amount of people might carry a gene most that makes them susceptible. When you have a virus that is such large scale, it's statistically expected to find outliers like these. But it's not very significant to harp on them (unless you are the media I guess...).

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    I hope scientists do more research on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virophage. Maybe one day we won't have to worry about viruses anymore. We could just make viruses to kill other viruses. Could probably even kill HIV for good this way, since such things don't take time for the immune system to ramp up. No more stupid pandemics. Everyone will live. Then we can progress to Idiocracy. Our evolved destiny.

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    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-official.html
    Lab leak is the 'most credible' source of the coronavirus outbreak, says top US government official, amid bombshell claims Wuhan scientist has turned whistleblower


    • Donald Trump's Deputy National Security Adviser Matthew Pottinger spoke
    • Mr Pottinger told politicians leak is emerging as 'most credible source' of virus
    • He claimed the pathogen may have escaped through a 'leak or an accident'

    By ABUL TAHER, SECURITY CORRESPONDENT FOR THE MAIL ON SUNDAY
    PUBLISHED: 17:06 EST, 2 January 2021 | UPDATED: 17:13 EST, 2 January 2021






    One of America's most senior government officials says the most 'credible' theory about the origin of coronavirus is that it escaped from a laboratory in China.

    Matthew Pottinger, who is President Donald Trump's respected Deputy National Security Adviser, told politicians from around the world that even China's leaders now openly admit their previous claims that the virus originated in a Wuhan market are false.


    Mr Pottinger said that the latest intelligence points to the virus leaking from the top-secret Wuhan Institute of Virology, 11 miles from the market, saying: 'There is a growing body of evidence that the lab is likely the most credible source of the virus.'

    "Matthew Pottinger, who is President Donald Trump's respected Deputy National Security Adviser, says the most 'credible' theory about the origin of coronavirus is that it escaped from from the top-secret Wuhan Institute of Virology in China" class="blkBorder img-share" />

    Matthew Pottinger, who is President Donald Trump's respected Deputy National Security Adviser, says the most 'credible' theory about the origin of coronavirus is that it escaped from from the top-secret Wuhan Institute of Virology in China

    He claimed the pathogen may have escaped through a 'leak or an accident', adding: 'Even establishment figures in Beijing have openly dismissed the wet market story.'










    The comments, which were made during a Zoom conference with MPs on China last week, come as a team of experts from the World Health Organisation prepare to fly to Wuhan to investigate how the pandemic began.

    Critics fear the probe will be a whitewash given China's influence on the WHO.


    'MPs around the world have a moral role to play in exposing the WHO investigation as a Potemkin exercise,' Mr Pottinger told the parliamentarians, in reference to the fake villages created in the Crimea in the 18th Century, intended to convince the visiting Russian Empress Catherine the Great that the region was in good health.

    Iain Duncan Smith, the former Tory Party leader who attended the meeting, said Mr Pottinger's comments represented a 'stiffening' of the US position on the theory that the virus came from a leak at the laboratory, amid reports that the Americans are talking to a whistleblower from the Wuhan institute.


    "Mr Pottinger (left) told politicians from around the world that even China's leaders now openly admit their previous claims that the virus originated in a Wuhan market are false." class="blkBorder img-share" />
    Mr Pottinger (left) told politicians from around the world that even China's leaders now openly admit their previous claims that the virus originated in a Wuhan market are false.
    'I was told the US have an ex-scientist from the laboratory in America at the moment,' he said. 'That was what I heard a few weeks ago.
    'I was led to believe this is how they have been able to stiffen up their position on how this outbreak originated.'
    He added that Beijing's refusal to allow journalists to visit the laboratory only served to increase suspicion that it was 'ground zero' for the pandemic.


    'The truth is there are people who have been in those labs who maintain that this is the case,' he said.
    'We don't know what they have been doing in that laboratory.
    'They may well have been fiddling with bat coronaviruses and looking at them and they made a mistake. I've spoken to various people who believe that to be the case.'


    He claimed the pathogen may have escaped through a 'leak or an accident', adding: 'Even establishment figures in Beijing have openly dismissed the wet market story'. Pictured: Chinese virologist Shi Zhengli, who was dubbed 'Batwoman', at the Wuhan lab with a colleague

    Sam Armstrong, communications director at the Henry Jackson Society foreign policy think-tank, said: 'With such a senior and respected intelligence official speaking in support of this claim, the time has come for the British Government to seek both answers about and compensation for Covid-19.'


    Mr Pottinger, who speaks fluent Mandarin, previously worked as a journalist for Reuters and The Wall Street Journal, including seven years as its China correspondent.


    In 2005, he became a US marine and served as a military intelligence officer before being asked to join the US National Security Council in 2017, becoming Asia director before assuming his current role.


    His older brother, Paul, is a virologist at the University of Washington.


    President Trump last year accused the WHO of being a 'puppet of China' and withdrew funding.


    The visit to Wuhan by the WHO team is already mired in controversy after it published terms of reference revealing it will not investigate the Wuhan institute – the only laboratory in China with the highest international bio-security grading – as a possible source of Covid-19.




    The world must investigate all the mounting evidence Covid leaked from a Wuhan lab, writes IAN BIRRELL
    By Ian Birrell for the Mail on Sunday
    It is a year since the world learned of a deadly new respiratory disease stalking the central Chinese city of Wuhan.
    Yet we still know little about how and why the virus spread with such devastating consequences.

    It can almost certainly be traced to bats. But we do not know how this pathogen – having evolved an extraordinary ability to infect, causing such damage to different bodily organs – made the jump into human beings.


    At last, a World Health Organisation investigation is under way into the origins of the coronavirus, but it is accused of meekly pandering to China's agenda by recruiting patsy scientists and relying on Beijing's dubious data.


    Now there is growing clamour from experts around the world that no stone should be left unturned during this inquiry – and that it must include one key element of a hunt which has all the hallmarks of a thriller novel.



    <img id="i-488854d1d83da4da" src="https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2021/01/02/21/37525500-9106951-image-a-13_1609621392454.jpg" height="423" width="634" alt="It is a year since the world learned of a deadly new respiratory disease stalking the central Chinese city of Wuhan, writes Ian Birrell. Pictured: Chinese virologist Shi Zhengli, who was dubbed 'Batwoman', at the Wuhan Institute of Virology" class="blkBorder img-share" />
    It is a year since the world learned of a deadly new respiratory disease stalking the central Chinese city of Wuhan, writes Ian Birrell. Pictured: Chinese virologist Shi Zhengli, who was dubbed 'Batwoman', at the Wuhan Institute of Virology
    This centres on a cave filled with bats, a clutch of mysterious deaths, some brilliant scientists carrying out futuristic experiments in a secretive laboratory – and a cover-up of epic proportions that, if proven, would have huge consequences for the Chinese Communist Party and the global practice of science.

    So what, precisely, is this theory on the origins of this pandemic?

    It must be stated clearly that it is just a theory, albeit one based on crumbs of evidence teased out by a few courageous scientists and some online detectives.

    New diseases have emerged throughout human history. Most experts believe Covid to be a 'zoonotic' disease that spilled over naturally from animals to humans.


    They think it was most likely 'amplified' by an intermediate species – similar to how Chinese people's consumption of civet cats sparked the 2002 Sars epidemic.


    Yet at the same time, Beijing's actions from the outset – covering up the outbreak, blaming a wild animal market that it has since admitted wasn't at fault, barring outside investigators, burying data and silencing its own experts – have served to fuel suspicions.


    Last week, leaked documents exposed how the Chinese government, under orders from President Xi Jinping, is strictly controlling all research into the origins of Covid while promoting fringe theories suggesting it came from outside China.


    And it is an uncomfortable coincidence that Wuhan – a city buzzing once again, with busy shops, packed restaurants and many people without masks on the streets celebrating New Year – is home to the world's top coronavirus research unit as well as ground zero to a pandemic from a strange new strain.


    The clues start with an abandoned copper mine in Mojiang, a hilly region in Yunnan, southern China, where bats roost in a network of underground caves, cracks and crannies.


    Two weeks ago, a BBC reporter was prevented from reaching this remote site after being trailed by police for miles along bumpy tracks, then blocked by a lorry and confronted by men at roadblocks saying their job was to stop him.



    "Days after three Chinese miners who had been clearing bat droppings inside caves died, Zhengli went to investigate"
    Days after three Chinese miners who had been clearing bat droppings inside caves died, Zhengli went to investigate

    The previous month, a team of US journalists had also been tailed by plainclothes police who barred their access.

    One research team recently managed to take some samples at the mine, but reportedly had them confiscated.

    The reason for such secrecy goes back to the end of April 2012 when a 42-year-old man clearing bat droppings in these underground caverns turned up at a nearby hospital with a bad cough, high fever and struggling to breathe.


    Within a week, five colleagues had similar symptoms. Three later died, one after doctors spent more than 100 days fighting to save his life – yet the two youngest spent less than a week in the hospital and survived. Sound familiar?


    We have since learned from a detailed masters thesis, which included medical reports and radiological scans, that these miners suffered a viral pneumonia, attributed to Sars-like coronaviruses originating from horseshoe bats.


    One leading US health body pointed out last year that they had 'an illness remarkably similar to Covid-19'.


    Little wonder a prominent vaccine scientist told me: 'This is about as close to a smoking gun as exists.'

    Intriguingly, a second thesis three years later also highlighted these cases.

    It was written by a student of Oxford-trained virologist Professor George Gao Fu, who is now head of China's Centre for Disease Control and Prevention, which is leading their response to the pandemic.


    So the Chinese authorities must have known about the dead miners.


    Yet they quickly tried to blame the wildlife market in Wuhan as Covid's source, until challenged by respected studies revealed in this newspaper.


    Following the miners' deaths, Shi Zhengli, a Wuhan-based virologist known as Batwoman for her expeditions to gather samples in such caves and a member of the team that traced the origin of Sars to bats, went to investigate.

    'The mine shaft stank like hell,' she told Scientific American magazine, explaining how her colleagues spent a year discovering new coronaviruses in samples taken from the blood and faeces of bats.

    The miners, she claimed, died from a fungal infection.



    "'The mine shaft stank like hell,' she told Scientific American magazine, explaining how her colleagues spent a year discovering new coronaviruses in samples taken from the blood and faeces of bats. The miners, she claimed, died from a fungal infection."

    'The mine shaft stank like hell,' she told Scientific American magazine, explaining how her colleagues spent a year discovering new coronaviruses in samples taken from the blood and faeces of bats. The miners, she claimed, died from a fungal infection.


    Another expert noted how the miners who died were treated with anti-fungal medications, while those surviving were given other drugs.

    'So in addition to the fact that the cases were more Sars-like than fungal-like, this treatment story argues against a fungal [cause],' he said.

    'It is very odd that Shi Zhengli would assert these cases were fungal.'


    Prof Shi examined samples in her Wuhan lab, a few miles from the infamous market. Studies later found the virus in sewage, but it was not detected in animals.


    The Wuhan Institute of Virology is the first laboratory with the highest global bio-safety level in China.

    It specialises in the study of bat-borne viruses and is spearheading China's drive to assert itself in bio-technology.

    Leaked diplomatic cables reveal that US officials who visited the lab two years ago warned about safety weaknesses and the risks of a new Sars-like epidemic emerging from the site.


    The lab's own safety chief also publicly admitted concerns over flawed security systems.


    The institute has carried out experiments on bat coronaviruses since 2015 – including research that can increase their virulence by combining snippets from different strains.


    Some viruses were injected into special 'humanised' mice that had been created for use in labs with human genes, cells or tissues in their bodies.


    These controversial experiments artificially force the evolution of viruses so as to boost our understanding of diseases and their transmissibility.


    They help researchers develop new drugs and vaccines.


    The Wuhan scientists were working with prominent Western experts and supported financially by the National Institutes of Health, the most important US funding body – although this relationship was ended on safety grounds after being revealed by The Mail on Sunday.


    Some scientists argue this type of pathogen research is too risky since it could trigger a pandemic from a new disease.


    As a result, there was a moratorium on such work by the US for four years under the Obama administration.


    Other critics have warned that the Wuhan Institute was constructing 'chimeric' coronaviruses – new hybrid micro-organisms that show no sign of human manipulation.


    Now the big question is whether they took samples from the coronavirus that killed the Yunnan miners and, back in their laboratory more than 1,000 miles away, created a new virus that somehow leaked out into their own city.




    Leaked diplomatic cables reveal that US officials who visited the lab two years ago warned about safety weaknesses and the risks of a new Sars-like epidemic emerging from the site

    As leading experts have suggested, it would have been a logical step to create chimeric viruses by combining properties from different samples.


    Many scientific breakthroughs have emerged from such speculative endeavours.


    One medical professor suggested to me that the miners may have died after being exposed to very high doses of coronaviruses while working in deep shafts filled with bats and their droppings.


    But the Wuhan scientists then struggled to prove causality in their lab as their samples were too weak to infect human cells.

    'This would have stopped them publishing a major finding of a new Sars-like virus infecting humans.

    The possibility is they might then have tried modifying the virus to make it better able to infect human cells in a bid to establish the missing link.'


    This is, it must be stressed, unproven speculation.


    And it is understandable why China wants to comprehend as much as possible about bat viruses that emerge in their country.


    Yet as experts say, there are many unanswered questions centring on Beijing's reluctance to come clean about the miners' cases, viruses and samples held in their labs.


    The Wuhan Institute has even taken key databases offline.


    Key to all this is the enigmatic Batwoman, Prof Shi. First, she published a genetic sequence for Sars-Cov-2 – the strain of coronavirus that causes Covid-19 – which, despite close analysis of other novel features, ignored its most surprising characteristic.


    This is 'the furin cleavage site', a mutation not found on similar types of coronavirus that allows its spike protein to bind so effectively to many human cells.



    The lab's own safety chief also publicly admitted concerns over flawed security systems

    Then, last January, Prof Shi and two colleagues published a paper in Nature that revealed the existence of a virus called RaTG13 that was taken from a horseshoe bat and stored on their premises, the biggest repository of bat coronaviruses in Asia.


    This paper, submitted on the same day China admitted to human transmission, caused a stir in the scientific world since it revealed the existence of the closest known relative to Sars-Cov-2 with more than 96 per cent genetic similarity.


    It underlined that such diseases occur in nature – yet although closely related, it would have taken RaTG13 several decades to evolve in the wild into Sars-Cov-2 and was too distant to be manipulated in a laboratory.


    Other experts wondered why there was so little information about this new strain. One reason soon became clear: the name had been changed from that of another virus called Ra4991 identified in a previous paper – but, unusually, not cited in the Nature piece.


    This obscured a direct link to the dead miners, which was only confirmed when Nature sought publication of an 'addendum' following complaints.


    The Wuhan team also admitted it had eight more Sars viruses from the Yunnan mine that have not been disclosed.


    Some scientists say these new details raise many fresh issues – including a 20-point critique put on her blog by an Indian microbiologist called Monali Rahalkar.


    Many high-profile experts, however, still dismiss the idea of a lab leak as a conspiracy theory.


    Yet David Relman, one of the world's leading experts in this field, points out that scientists could easily have combined a 'furin cleavage site' from one viral ancestor with the backbone of Sars-Cov-2 taken from another.


    'Alternatively, the complete Sars-Cov-2 sequence could have been recovered from a bat sample and viable virus recreated from a synthetic genome to study it before that virus accidentally escaped,' wrote Relman, professor of microbiology and immunology at Stanford University's medical school, in a recent paper.


    The former US government adviser on bio-security told me he raised the issues out of frustration with scientists who seemed discomforted by the idea.


    'This perplexing story does not add up – the possibility of a lab accident cannot be discounted,' he said.


    There have also been questions over the apparent disappearance of a young woman researcher who worked in the laboratory.


    It has been suggested she might have been patient zero of this pandemic, although this has been denied by the Chinese authorities.


    Even if the miners' link was eliminated, it would not rule out the possibility of an accident causing this pandemic.

    Alina Chan, a molecular biologist at the Broad Institute of MIT and Harvard, said Wuhan scientists have shown in publications that they have sampled hundreds of bats and people living near bat caves in their search for Sars-related viruses.

    'Even if the precursor to Sars-Cov-2 was not from these miners or the Mojiang mine, did they find other viruses that are very closely related that we do not yet know about?' she asked.


    It sounds like the plot from a science-fiction film: an engineered virus leaking from a high-tech lab to cause global chaos.


    Yet there are plenty of precedents, including two researchers infected with Sars in a Beijing virology lab in 2004.


    Studies also show accidents with deadly pathogens are common in labs where people are working with microscopic viruses.


    Prof Shi admitted she never expected an outbreak in a city so far from the home of the bats she studied.


    She said her first thought on hearing coronaviruses might be the culprit was to wonder: 'Could they have come from our lab?'


    She then frantically rushed back to Wuhan to check her records for any possible mishandling of materials – which proves she believed such a leak was a possibility.


    There is also another lab in Wuhan with a lower level of bio-security, 500 yards from the animal market.


    A study posted by two Chinese scientists in February on a site for sharing research – then pulled two days later – enigmatically claimed 605 bats were kept here, describing how some attacked, bled and urinated on a researcher.


    'It is plausible that the virus leaked,' the paper concluded.


    Perhaps this theory will unravel as we find out fresh facts.


    Or scientists will uncover an alternative explanation for the path of Covid-19 from bats to humans.


    Equally, it is possible we may never discover the truth about the origins of this virus.


    But at this stage the only certainty is that we all do science – and indeed, investigative reporting – a disservice if this idea is discarded without being properly disproved and devoid of evidence.


    We owe this to a world dislocated so terribly by this pandemic.

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    ^ Everything this article states and much more is available to research yourself. Much of what it says many of us had already speculated about a year ago. I know people on this site have a problem with me personally, but please consider what this news article is discussing. It is important. In fact the origins is basically the most important factor of covid 19 and what we are seeing play out across nations around the globe.

    You can hate Trump and his administration, as I do, but it is a mark of a intelligent person to see when Trump and company are right about something. They are right about the CCP cover up and uncooperation, and what has possibly occurred with SARS 2 coming from a biosecurity facility in Wuhan. In this world, there are no coincidences, only the appearance of such.

    And remember they have already tried to infect bat species from China with novSARS-Corona-virus covid19 and they cannot become infected.

  29. #709
    from the hellfire inumbra's Avatar
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    I think I mainly disagree with your approach/attitude... And I guess although I believe the world is going to shit in terms of individual freedom, I don't see any manifestation of that wrt covid as being unique to covid. Covid is just another thing, and no matter what it would suck for everyone. Whatever the greater evils are SO MUCH GREATER. This one thing. . Why focus all attention on it???

    It's like missing the forest for the trees. Yes covid tree is huge obnoxious eyesore but it is NOT THE FOREST.

    I challenged your "facts" but that wasn't the point. And PS vaccine deniers, shitty vaccines coming our way (yes they made them so no covid is not unstoppable AIDS). Now we can complain about being required to take it.

    If you nuked China would you finally feel better??? Or is there no end to the Fi outrage?
    Last edited by inumbra; 01-03-2021 at 05:07 AM.

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    So it's a new year, COVID2.021, upgraded and patched, here we come!

    I've got no strings

    To hold me down
    To make me fret
    Or make me frown
    I had strings
    But now I'm free
    There are no strings on me

  31. #711

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    Default New York Magazine - January 2021

    The Lab-Leak Hypothesis

    For decades, scientists have been hot-wiring viruses in hopes of preventing a pandemic, not causing one. But what if …?

    By Nicholson Baker

    https://nymag.com/intelligencer/arti...pe-theory.html


    I. Flask Monsters


    What happened was fairly simple, I’ve come to believe. It was an accident. A virus spent some time in a laboratory, and eventually it got out. SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, began its existence inside a bat, then it learned how to infect people in a claustrophobic mine shaft, and then it was made more infectious in one or more laboratories, perhaps as part of a scientist’s well-intentioned but risky effort to create a broad-spectrum vaccine. SARS-2 was not designed as a biological weapon.

    But it was, I think, designed. Many thoughtful people dismiss this notion, and they may be right. They sincerely believe that the coronavirus arose naturally, “zoonotically,” from animals, without having been previously studied, or hybridized, or sluiced through cell cultures, or otherwise worked on by trained professionals. They hold that a bat, carrying a coronavirus, infected some other creature, perhaps a pangolin, and that the pangolin may have already been sick with a different coronavirus disease, and out of the conjunction and commingling of those two diseases within the pangolin, a new disease, highly infectious to humans, evolved.

    Or they hypothesize that two coronaviruses recombined in a bat, and this new virus spread to other bats, and then the bats infected a person directly — in a rural setting, perhaps — and that this person caused a simmering undetected outbreak of respiratory disease, which over a period of months or years evolved to become virulent and highly transmissible but was not
    noticed until it appeared in Wuhan.


    There is no direct evidence for these zoonotic possibilities, just as there is no direct evidence for an experimental mishap — no written confession, no incriminating notebook, no official accident report. Certainty craves detail, and detail requires an investigation. It has been a full year, 80 million people have been infected, and, surprisingly, no public investigation has
    taken place. We still know very little about the origins of this disease.


    Nevertheless, I think it’s worth offering some historical context for our yearlong medical nightmare. We need to hear from the people who for years have contended that certain types of virus experimentation might lead to a disastrous pandemic like this one. And we need to stop hunting for new exotic diseases in the wild, shipping them back to laboratories, and hot-wiring their genomes to prove how dangerous to human life they might become.


    Over the past few decades, scientists have developed ingenious methods of evolutionary acceleration and recombination, and they’ve learned how to trick viruses, coronaviruses in particular, those spiky hairballs of protein we now know so well, into moving quickly from one species of animal to another or from one type of cell culture to another. They’ve made machines that mix and mingle the viral code for bat diseases with the code for human diseases — diseases like SARS, severe acute respiratory syndrome, for example, which arose in China in 2003, and MERS, Middle East respiratory syndrome, which broke out a decade later and has to do with bats and camels. Some of the experiments — “gain of function” experiments — aimed to create new, more virulent, or more infectious strains of diseases in an effort to predict and therefore defend against threats that might conceivably arise in nature.

    The term gain of function is itself a euphemism; the Obama White House more accurately described this work as “experiments that may be reasonably anticipated to confer attributes to influenza, MERS, or SARS viruses such that the virus would have enhanced pathogenicity and/or transmissibility in mammals via the respiratory route.” The virologists who carried out these experiments have accomplished amazing feats of genetic transmutation, no question, and there have been very few publicized accidents over the years. But there have been some.


    And we were warned, repeatedly. The intentional creation of new microbes that combine virulence with heightened transmissibility “poses extraordinary risks to the public,” wrote infectious-disease experts Marc Lipsitch and Thomas Inglesby in 2014. “A rigorous and transparent risk-assessment process for this work has not yet been established.” That’s still true today. In 2012, in Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists, Lynn Klotz warned that there was an 80 percent chance, given how many laboratories were then handling virulent viro-varietals, that a leak of a potential pandemic pathogen would occur
    sometime in the next 12 years.


    A lab accident — a dropped flask, a needle prick, a mouse bite, an illegibly labeled bottle — is apolitical. Proposing that something unfortunate happened during a scientific experiment in Wuhan — where COVID-19 was first diagnosed and where there are three high-security virology labs, one of which held in its freezers the most comprehensive inventory of sampled bat viruses in the world — isn’t a conspiracy theory. It’s just a theory. It merits attention, I believe, alongside other reasoned attempts to explain the source of our current catastrophe.

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    Default Why does knowing the origins of Wuflu matter?

    As Shi explained to Scientific American, late in December 2019, she heard from the director of the Wuhan Institute that there was an outbreak of a new disease in the city. Medical samples taken from hospital patients arrived at her lab for analysis. Shi determined that the new virus was related to SARS but even more closely related to a bat disease that her own team had found on a virus-hunting trip: the now-famous RaTG13.

    Shi was surprised that the outbreak was local, she said: “I had never expected this kind of thing to happen in Wuhan, in central China.” The bat hiding places that she’d been visiting were, after all, as far away as Orlando, Florida, is from New York City. Could this new virus, she wondered, have come from her own laboratory? She checked her records and found no exact matches. “That really took a load off my mind,” she said. “I had not slept a wink for days.”

    If one of the first thoughts that goes through the head of a lab director at the Wuhan Institute of Virology is that the new coronavirus could have come from her lab, then we are obliged to entertain the scientific possibility that it could indeed have come from her lab.

    Right then, there should have been a comprehensive, pockets-inside-out, fully public investigation of the Virology Institute, along with the other important virus labs in Wuhan, including the one close by the seafood market, headquarters of the Wuhan CDC.

    There should have been interviews with scientists, interviews with biosafety teams, close parsings of laboratory notebooks, freezer and plumbing and decontamination systems checks — everything. It didn’t happen. The Wuhan Institute of Virology closed down its databases of viral genomes, and the Chinese Ministry of Education sent out a directive: “Any paper that traces the origin of the virus must be strictly and tightly managed.”

    Shi made some WeChat posts early in 2020. “The novel 2019 coronavirus is nature punishing the human race for keeping uncivilized living habits,” she wrote. “I, Shi Zhengli, swear on my life that it has nothing to do with our laboratory.” She advised those who believed rumors, and gave credence to unreliable scientific papers, to “shut their stinking mouths.”
    So, Zheng- Li Shi, the world's foremost researcher on coronavirus, a woman who has advocated her research in both the EU and the United States in person, tells us to "shut their stinking mouths".

    And you want to sit here and tell me that this doesn't matter? That she wasn't cornered by the CCP to give false testimony in order to SAVE FACE for China?

    Coronavirus has killed millions of people. This is not a small issue, if it came from the hands of man. It means the CCP is liable. It means the CCP is accountable for your country men dying. The air has been literally and virtually poisoned so you can't even visit and hug your family.

    This is the CCP's Chernobyl on a global scale. But China builds much of our products. China produces our pharmaceuticals. We are goose-stepped into pretending this bug came from nature, in order to protect the CCP's ass. But, in doing so, we are protecting our own. This is why the pandemic "feels" so greasy and unnatural. Why the distractions are so necessary. Why the Government and media are pressing us with the case numbers. They are trying to tell us the virus came from the laboratory and are unsure of what that means in reality for our health without much time passing in order to see the effects.

    But, they can't explicitly say it came from the laboratory because, that would INEVITABLY lead to War.

    It's to prevent WW3. Also to get the world to the point where vaccines work and are administered without any turmoil.

    Someday there will be an accounting for the CCP. But, don't think this will stop them in the future. Covid was proof of concept and it has been the CCP's Oppenhiemer. They see this as a National Security win.

    Crisis- Opportunity
    Last edited by timber; 01-05-2021 at 04:04 AM.

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    This is a very in depth and involved essay regarding the laboratory leak hypothesis.
    by
    Yuri Deigen
    Lab-Made? SARS-CoV-2 Genealogy Through the Lens of Gain-of-Function Research
    https://yurideigin.medium.com/lab-ma...h-f96dd7413748

    To be clear, this essay is not some glib analysis. This is excellently researched and demonstrates that lab leak hypothesis is not some fringe conspiracy.
    Last edited by timber; 01-05-2021 at 04:25 AM.

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    The National Review:

    The Wuhan Lab-Leak Hypothesis Goes Mainstream
    By JIM GERAGHTY

    January 4, 2021 4:02 PM

    https://www.nationalreview.com/2021/...mpression=true

    This morning, New York magazine unveiled “The Lab-Leak Hypothesis” — Nicholson Baker’s lengthy and detailed exploration of the possibility that the SARS-CoV-2 virus and ongoing coronavirus pandemic is the result of a lab accident in Wuhan, China. Baker goes even further, speculating that the reason this virus is similar to many previously discovered viruses but not quite the same is that it may have been altered through gain-of-function experiments.

    In other words, the theory suggests that Chinese scientists wanted to study a particularly dangerous version of an existing virus and thus deliberately accelerated a virus’s process of growth and change to generate a more virulent and contagious version of it. Baker notes that SARS-CoV-2 is similar to other viruses found in nature, but more contagious among humans — and asks whether laboratory efforts might explain what makes SARS-CoV-2 so easily spread:

    The zoonoticists say that we shouldn’t find it troubling that virologists have been inserting and deleting furin cleavage sites and ACE2-receptor-binding domains in experimental viral spike proteins for years: The fact that virologists have been doing these things in laboratories, in advance of the pandemic, is to be taken as a sign of their prescience, not of their folly. But I keep returning to the basic, puzzling fact: This patchwork pathogen, which allegedly has evolved without human meddling, first came to notice in the only city in the world with a laboratory that was paid for years by the U.S. government to perform experiments on certain obscure and heretofore unpublicized strains of bat viruses — which bat viruses then turned out to be, out of all the organisms on the planet, the ones that are most closely related to the disease. What are the odds?

  35. #715
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    I typed luc montagnier as an ILI some months ago (he VI's like warren buffett). he won the nobel prize for discovering HIV. I remember that he said on french television at the beginning of the pandemic that Covid-19 is a man-made virus. thought that was interesting.

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    It really helps a lot that this piece was published by the New York Magazine, a left-bias media with high factual reporting that actually reports something that the left are usually against:

    https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/new-york-magazine/



    This article was peer reviewed by the opponents of the lab origin hypothesis as well:
    Given the seriousness and sensitivity of the subject matter (among the effects of the politicization of the disease has been the bullying and harassment of Asian Americans), New York’s fact-checking team spent a month vetting the story; additionally, Baker and the magazine shared drafts of the essay with multiple scientists, including two molecular biologists who believe that SARS-
    CoV-2 is a zoonotic virus,
    who all provided critical feedback to help ensure the accuracy of the work.

    https://nymag.com/press/2021/01/on-t...ypothesis.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by dead account View Post
    I typed luc montagnier as an ILI some months ago (he VI's like warren buffett). he won the nobel prize for discovering HIV. I remember that he said on french television at the beginning of the pandemic that Covid-19 is a man-made virus. thought that was interesting.
    HIV comes up again and again, but has buried beneath all the noise. The ramifications for HIV genes in the spike protein complex are HUGE.

    Here's another prepprint. Not unusual for cross reaction, but again, more HIV connections. There are dozens and dozens more from this past year you had probably not heard in the MSM.

    Glycan reactive anti-HIV-1 antibodies bind the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein but do not block viral entry
    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1...01.03.425141v1



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    Quote Originally Posted by inumbra View Post
    I think I mainly disagree with your approach/attitude... And I guess although I believe the world is going to shit in terms of individual freedom, I don't see any manifestation of that wrt covid as being unique to covid. Covid is just another thing, and no matter what it would suck for everyone. Whatever the greater evils are SO MUCH GREATER. This one thing. . Why focus all attention on it???

    It's like missing the forest for the trees. Yes covid tree is huge obnoxious eyesore but it is NOT THE FOREST.

    I challenged your "facts" but that wasn't the point. And PS vaccine deniers, shitty vaccines coming our way (yes they made them so no covid is not unstoppable AIDS). Now we can complain about being required to take it.

    If you nuked China would you finally feel better??? Or is there no end to the Fi outrage?
    Quote Originally Posted by inumbra View Post

    If you nuked China would you finally feel better??? Or is there no end to the Fi outrage?
    God no.

    This was on the teams of people who thought it would be a good idea to gain of function deadly viruses in shit facilities with terrible protocols and untrained laxidisical staff. Also the groups of military and CCP interests who thought this was in the best interest of China when they took control of the WIV in 2018 and hijacked the work.

    The people of China are mostly innocent. Communism is a massive, dystopic failure.

    I don't know what the solution is at this point. What I am talking about here, though, will be the biggest story of 2021.

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    A Bayesian analysis concludes beyond a reasonable doubt that SARS-CoV-2 is not a natural zoonosis but instead is laboratory derived

    https://zenodo.org/record/4477081#



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    New Study By Dr. Steven Quay Concludes that SARS-CoV-2 Came from a Laboratory


    Primer: https://apnews.com/press-release/pr-...8753ca0947ea0c

    Study: https://zenodo.org/record/4477081#

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