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Thread: When are you "ready" for your dual?

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    Default When are you "ready" for your dual?

    Comment below with your type and what you think will make you and your dual "ready" for each other. Or do you think this idea of "ready" is nonsense because it's duality and you don't have to be?

    In other words, when can this relationship be the most mutually beneficial without descending into the hell that Stratiyevskaya describes between duals who (in my opinion) seem severely lacking in self-awareness or even basic human decency.

    Musing how--at earlier times in my life--an SLE would have either scared or repelled me and I would have just ignored them. Now I've noticed that if I actually speak my mind to them it seems to change something in them, which was surprising to discover. (They actually think about the feedback I give! They actually LIKE my inclination to play psychologist and dig into their emotions. Mind-blowing...)

    "Ready" for the IEI:
    -A strong sense of self. This is essential but seems to take IEIs time to develop, unlike Fi doms.
    -Not being swayed from their vision. If the SLE doesn't line up with the vision, it's not the right SLE.
    -Personal boundaries that are enforced without apology. This seems to be one of the only ways to create real respect.
    -A life outside the relationship (probably a good idea for all the types): healthy routines, friendships, therapy, exercise.
    -The ability to be very, very direct. Again, this takes time to develop for an IEI. The Strat article describes the IEI (in what I would call an "unconscious" state) as someone who has to use emotional manipulation to get what they want from the SLE, but I think this is what fuels the unhealthy dynamic. Learning to be direct is the best.

    Still pondering what makes an SLE the most ready for the IEI....
    Last edited by Emily; 02-01-2020 at 12:28 AM.

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    @Emily From what I've read, Duality isn't a thing you "prepare" for. It just "happens" if that makes any kind of sense. It ain't like you plan to go to the bar at the 29th of X month because stats say that's when your "dual" tends to slum it up on the cheap bar scene when they're most "vulnerable" towards forming a relationship with their "dual" if ya know what I mean.

    I know it's a bit rich coming from a Theist like me but "have faith" is my recommendation. Once you have well and truly "gotten your shit together" you will find yourself swarmed with enticing romantic prospects. If you have some modicum of wisdom you will find a mate worthy of you that will be equally thankful that they found someone worthy of themselves .

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    After one has had several failed relationships and libido has slipped to second place.....

    a.k.a. I/O

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    I was in my mid 20s and recently divorced.

    Came out of nowhere.

    As Jerry Springer as this sounds, dual even drove me to my Court Case. Lol, what a weird world it ends up being.

    edit: they dropped the charges. I was wrong and payed for it, but fuck that POS until the day I die.

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    There's no such thing as ready, imo. It just happens or it doesn't.

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    You are never ready until it happens.

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    ready for EII men:
    stop daydreaming about it and talk to her.


    ready for EII women
    stop thinking your ugly and not enough and that he doesn't really like you.


    ready for LSE men:
    stop going after anything with a nice set of tits(and paying for everything all the time).


    ready for LSE women:
    stop looking at his resume.
    Last edited by Lord Pixel; 02-01-2020 at 02:03 AM.

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    ime:

    - EIE having a sturdy sense of purpose. I'm 25 and have a couple of EIE friends my age and I noticed we were chaotic, manipulative and just out to have a good time until very recently when we integrated a sense of meaning and direction to channel the Fe into.
    - Catastrophic mood swings pulled into line (I'm still working on this - I have an strong sense of identity with what ever I'm feeling and impulsively act on it as though it is gospel).
    - Ability to be decisive and stand up against pressure. This is just general weakness but I think I had a hard time with Se egos pushing back against me (more so Se-doms than Se-creatives).
    - Readiness to accept that you maybe be the one doing all the talking but you're definitely not the one calling the shots

    Based on the one LSI I do know well:
    - Willingness to be emotionally exposed and go on deep dives about feelings.
    - The knowledge that sometimes you can be blunt and hurtful by just being brutally honest
    - Recognition that you can't always get what you want by force
    - Readiness to accept change and growth in your life and habits
    - Ability to let your partner think they are calling the shots whilst you actually keep them in line

    Arguments are caused between myself an LSI when a) I overreact to something or b) he doesn't get what he wants and acts forcefully or spitefully (and then I overreact to it).
    "I take back like half of the exclamation points.....they make me look....eager to please. Which I AM....but I don't want anyone to KNOW that"
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    I think that a lot of the benefits of duality are connected with getting out of one’s particular way of interpreting the world. People who are attached to their own perceptions of the world, or think that people who see things differently are stupid, aren’t likely to like their duals at all. This isn’t part of Model A or mainstream Socionics, but I really do think there are people who choose not to use/be led by their super-id IEs at all.

    With Alpha SFs, especially SEIs, there’s a type that is not interested in anything new or different, wants to impose their (generally rather banal) conception of how the world should be (ordered and tidy and polite and dull) on everyone (children, spouses, students, anyone over whom they can try to achieve a position of power), and are actively repulsed by people who think differently from them, who are “weird” and have weird ideas, who are prone to accidentally insult people or overlook social norms — so Alpha NTs, especially ILEs. ESEs can be similar, but their equivalent to this is more actively concerned that people act upbeat and positive rather than merely polite, and take it as a personal insult when people aren’t always positive toward them and the world — that their “social face” isn’t appropriate. This type is insufferable; I heard a (male) one once berate a waiter for seeming tired and unhappy.

    As far as Alpha NTs go, my ideas are less clear. I think they might always want/expect Ne stimulation, and so the Alpha SFs can seem boring — other Ne egos, particularly, seem much more interesting and exciting. ILEs particularly want freedom and open possibilities; SEIs usually want a house, kids, and property that has to be frequently maintained. LIIs can be uptight and dogmatic; ESEs’ informality (which in a healthy relationship is mutual and a source of kinship), combined with their lack of Ti-understanding, threatens to make the LII’s mental constructs and efforts meaningless. Also, the LII wants acknowledgement and appreciation; an ESE might have no idea what the LII does and thinks about, and how then could the ESE appreciate the LII’s work?

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    With Alpha SFs, especially SEIs, there’s a type that is not interested in anything new or different, wants to impose their (generally rather banal) conception of how the world should be (ordered and tidy and polite and dull) on everyone (children, spouses, students, anyone over whom they can try to achieve a position of power), and are actively repulsed by people who think differently from them, who are “weird” and have weird ideas, who are prone to accidentally insult people or overlook social norms
    That sounds ESI, tbh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusal View Post
    That sounds ESI, tbh.
    Yeah... I was thinking it didn't sound that great. An SEI would be more likely to give you advice on how to be the best kind of weird xD. Or give you details advice on creating your own world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by faith View Post
    2. I think that the more attached they are to their vision the more unhealthy they are. IEIs tend to stagnate if they get attached to their vision because things aren’t ‘perfect’. IMO they are most ready when they stop clinging to their idealism because they would idealize the ‘right’ SLE. Idealizing in a relationship is bad.
    Good point with the bolded #2 above, and you're right. Idealizing everything down to the tiniest little point and being unable to accept anything less can be severely limiting. Refusing to listen or expanding your worldview is such a narrow way to live. There has to be some compromise between opening up your worldview but not letting go of one's dreams for someone else--maybe that's what I was getting at by "not letting go of your vision": don't give up who you are or what you want for a romantic partner. The older I get, the more I know myself and what I can and can't give up. It's fun to see what has changed, though, and what I'd be willing to explore/do differently than in my 20s.

    4. Maybe this varies with SLEs but I spend my time trying to get IEIs (and SEIs) to verbalize what they think, and they don’t have to manipulate me to get what they want. I think it creates a good positive Fe atmosphere. Maybe it’s different with other SLEs.
    I think this is an incredibly valuable asset of a healthy SLE. So thanks

    What makes an SLE ready:
    1. They have to be open minded enough to not pass any Ni as BS, they should be able to listen at least
    2. Show basic care like asking about your day, listening
    3. Knowing that they aren’t the center of the world and not everything revolves around them
    4. Knowing when to cut a IEI on their BS, because IEIs can take things for granted. Just because SLEs can fool around doesn’t mean IEIs can purposely waste their time
    What are some ways you've noticed IEIs can take SLEs for granted?

    I think that these come naturally in duality so I wouldn’t ‘wait’ for the perfect moment. I know that in the process both personalities get better
    A hopeful thought.

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    Quote Originally Posted by faith View Post
    I usually have to save the IEIs a** when it comes to doing projects with her because she’s really bad at Se. Our field is very spontaneous, and she doesn’t do anything to save herself. When I’m in a group with her I would do 70% of the work, and the other 30% I have to guide her through it. She still manages to find the most irrelevant mistakes and stress me out about it. She doesn’t do this to other group members, she’s nit-picky when it comes to me because she knows I’d ‘understand’. I usually score well when working alone or with other partners, so I know what I’m doing. She knows what I’m doing yet she still acts bratty.
    Well that stinks. It's hard when people don't take responsibility for themselves.

    The same goes for another SLE that I know, an IEI is so accustomed to her he treats her like shit sometimes. I don’t know why it’s us specifically, they don’t do this with other types because (maybe) other types don’t give them enough face or attention. Which is why I always say that LSIs are better for unhealthy IEIs, because an LSI wouldn’t make an IEI feel understood therefore they would cut down on complaints.
    Hmm, time to get another friend.....I don't have enough duality experience to speak into why that could be happening. It sounds like a dynamic where an unhealthy person has gotten comfortable with little to no boundaries or consequences. But strange it only seems to manifest around the SLE Does it seem like she thinks the SLE is the only one who can "take it," or it's just that the SLE is only one who won't push back?

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    Quote Originally Posted by faith View Post
    @Emily lol that’s one big giant roast for IEIs. But anyhow, news says that IEIs think themselves as special even before they go through the MBTI bs, I think that also carries through the relationship. I’ve read somewhere that function-wise they tend to think themselves as better because of their Ni. The example was given of religion, with religion they do things that makes them think that they are above others, when really they are recreating extremism. Veganism is IMO an Ni-Fe concept, people in it don’t realize how privileged they are to be practicing veganism (lack of Se and Ti to understand that.)
    Haha, occasional roasts are probably good for us. I can speak only for myself and say that I used to feel like something was wrong with me rather than special. I think both of those feelings about one's self--either being super "special" and "above" everyone or on the flipside alien and inferior--are a result of feeling disconnected from others and a poorly developed sense of identity. It seems like a lot of IEIs don't have a lot of people in their growing-up years who can properly reflect their true self back to them. IEIs are a little strange, a little different. Especially if they're highly empathic. If you're not around people who "get" you--and you're not an Fi dom who is born with an innate understanding of who you are--the only way to cope or make sense of your identity is to create a story around yourself where you are either super above everyone or horribly inferior/different. But of course neither one of those is your true self (and it's not an excuse to treat others poorly).

    Interesting thought about veganism. The vegans I've known have mostly been Delta NFs, and one EIE who did it for health reasons, so I'm not sure the correlation with type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Viktor View Post
    It seems like the idea is that SLEs are supposed to be fucking everything that moves etc, and I don't live up to that in any way, so I don't think I'll ever be "ready" for an IEI, or atleast not be what they expect me to be.
    For what it's worth, this is not what I expect an SLE to be, and not even close to what I look for in a man.

    So when will I be ready? Maybe some day when I've lost some weight and have gotten over the last shred of care that I have for other peoples opinions, and when I've gotten over my own insecurities
    You don't have to be perfect to enter a relationship. Get healthy for you because you're valuable.

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    There's no such thing as ready. You have to take a risk with your heart so love can find you. You will never feel ready about anything in life you just kinda take the jump and do the best you can.

    The more confident you are at fixing your own life the more you will pick somebody that is compatible for you probably. A working relationship requires more logical components than just feeling for somebody. I've seen people fall in love too much and get burnt because they kinda fell for a narcissist's image.

    And you need to be attracted to the person of course, but I've seen so many failed relationships where people were IN LUST with somebody and they called it 'love' but it was clear as day to other people that it was just lust. Lust actually isn't the enemy to me, but I think it does sadly turn into that when people confuse it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by faith View Post
    @Emily lol that’s one big giant roast for IEIs. But anyhow, news says that IEIs think themselves as special even before they go through the MBTI bs, I think that also carries through the relationship. I’ve read somewhere that function-wise they tend to think themselves as better because of their Ni. The example was given of religion, with religion they do things that makes them think that they are above others, when really they are recreating extremism. Veganism is IMO an Ni-Fe concept, people in it don’t realize how privileged they are to be practicing veganism (lack of Se and Ti to understand that.)
    I know exactly what you mean with this. I think though that IEIs (like anyone) who act like this actually have unhealthy low or fluctuating self-esteem. I like the IEIs who are truly confident for real things they have accomplished.

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    Quote Originally Posted by faith View Post
    I usually have to save the IEIs a** when it comes to doing projects with her because she’s really bad at Se. Our field is very spontaneous, and she doesn’t do anything to save herself. When I’m in a group with her I would do 70% of the work, and the other 30% I have to guide her through it. She still manages to find the most irrelevant mistakes and stress me out about it. She doesn’t do this to other group members, she’s nit-picky when it comes to me because she knows I’d ‘understand’. I usually score well when working alone or with other partners, so I know what I’m doing. She knows what I’m doing yet she still acts bratty.

    The same goes for another SLE that I know, an IEI is so accustomed to her he treats her like shit sometimes. I don’t know why it’s us specifically, they don’t do this with other types because (maybe) other types don’t give them enough face or attention. Which is why I always say that LSIs are better for unhealthy IEIs, because an LSI wouldn’t make an IEI feel understood therefore they would cut down on complaints.

    Fe is like that, they only act shitty once they know that there won’t be social consequences.
    You should not let their behaviour persist. You should call them out for it. Stop helping them or work with other people if they keep acting that way, or at least tell them that their behavior is too much considering how much you’re helping them. Don’t be an enabler.

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    SLE guys are basically the easiest type to attract lol @Emily . If you wait too long to spread ‘em then they might get exasperated and hate you though. All you have to do is exist, and be acceptably hot, quiet and introverted. In other words, just be yourself.

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    @Viktor you say you are not confident in yourself but and you appear to be quite confident in these beliefs of yours.

    but I'm not the sort of person that anyone would ever be in love with
    you wish

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    After one has had several failed relationships and libido has slipped to second place.....

    a.k.a. I/O
    I'm 53 and libido is what makes me want to be in a relationship with a woman first and foremost. If sex is not the main reason, I might just as well share my life with a man. That would probably be a lot easier ;-)

    On a more serious note: I do think libido often is driven by all kinds of frustrations and stress, and that duality, once happening, can actually lessen the neurotic nature of ones sex drive, decreasing the need for sex (as a way of letting off steam).
    “I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking

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    Quote Originally Posted by Viktor View Post
    Are you in love with me?
    yes

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    Quote Originally Posted by Viktor View Post
    How many kids should we have?
    should?

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    The world is not ready for me or I am not ready for the world. Either way I am constantly questioning my own existence on this planet or better to be put: I don't know if this is a life or some sort sick game played by someone with higher consciousness of which I am not capable of grasping.

    So can "to be ready" be real itself, dunno.

    Anyway, if I was ready for the world I'd also be ready for the dual. Simple as that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viktor View Post
    We can start with 3
    can?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Viktor View Post
    That's very inspirational, you should become the president
    Thanks for your support. I'll need a running mate, preferably one with ogre-like qualities who can also act as a bodyguard. Know of anyone?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Viktor View Post
    I can be your bodyguard, but I take payment in beer and kisses


    Paul Simon - EII
    Chevy Chase - ILE

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    It depends on the age and preferences of each dual. I mean you are ready for someone if you are in the same wavelenght. Its not the same an IEE male 20 yo on collegue in the US to an christian IEE female on her 35 with a child in Tailand. Even when they are both the same type their lifestyle and needs are different.

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    Me and my body are always ready ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Viktor View Post
    I can be your bodyguard, but I take payment in beer and kisses
    Seems easy enough.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post


    Paul Simon - EII
    Chevy Chase - ILE

    What is happening. In this video, in life in general...but especially at 1:45. He did NOT just whip out a piccolo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy View Post
    It depends on the age and preferences of each dual. I mean you are ready for someone if you are in the same wavelenght. Its not the same an IEE male 20 yo on collegue in the US to an christian IEE female on her 35 with a child in Tailand. Even when they are both the same type their lifestyle and needs are different.
    It takes some time to get to the same "wavelengths" so the question is still valid. For example, at my work only the older SLIs hang out with me. The ones my age (mid 20s) prefer hanging out with other thinking types.
    Last edited by lkdhf qkb; 02-02-2020 at 06:09 PM.
    I rarely feel alone. I rarely talk to anyone, yet in my head i have the most amazing, the most fantastic discussions with the people in my life. In real life, what most people talk about is several orders of magnitude lesser than their inner experiences. Most people never reveal the singularity of their subjective experience.
    Maybe I should learn to explore other people's consciousness. Maybe I should aim for a real space between me and others. Instead of cultivating monologues and fantasies. It's hard, but the alternative to this seems to be madness. ~ lkdhf qkb

    Life is soup. I'm fork


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    I don't know. I met my SLI not long ago when I was like, in really hard hard times, and it still works. I don't think there is a formula for that. But yeah. I left a lot of vices behind, thanks Cthulhu. I used to be kind of an addict before, so i'm glad I met her when I no longer was one, so that's cool.

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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    I'm 53 and libido is what makes me want to be in a relationship with a woman first and foremost. If sex is not the main reason, I might just as well share my life with a man. That would probably be a lot easier ;-)

    On a more serious note: I do think libido often is driven by all kinds of frustrations and stress, and that duality, once happening, can actually lessen the neurotic nature of ones sex drive, decreasing the need for sex (as a way of letting off steam).
    I read this post and I can't stop thinking about it. @consentingadult, are you saying that the only reason to be in a relationship with a woman is sex?

    I mean, sex is very, very important to me in a relationship, but if it were the only thing I wanted, I'd just hire it out. It would be a lot cheaper.

  36. #36
    Socionics is a spook ashlesha's Avatar
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    I thought LIEs always hired out their duals (;

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    Adam Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashlesha View Post
    I thought LIEs always hired out their duals (;
    Do you mean, LIE's hire out their duals like the operators of a temp agency which finds work for workers, or LIE's hire duals like a person paying for sex?

    I used to think that I would never, ever pay for sex. I only wanted sex with a woman who truly loves me (and that is actually still true). But I have since come to realize that there are many ways of paying for sex, and not all of them mean that the participants don't love each other.



    I was married for many years to an SLI woman whom I loved, and initially, we had a fair amount of sex, but the frequency quickly dropped to less than once a month and the last few years were entirely sex-free. (If you are on the Aggressor-Victim axis, don't try to cross the line to the Caregiver-Infantile axis. You will regret it, no matter what your dick thinks right now. Incidentally, sex only got better with both of my Aggressor LSI GF's.)
    Considering the amount of cash my ex-wife took from the divorce, those individual sex acts were each ungodly expensive.



    *EDIT*
    I've been thinking about this, and I've concluded that I would definitely pay an ESI that I know for sex once or twice, just to get her attention. After that, we can negotiate.

    I think LIE's are probably best among all types with the concept of paying people for services rendered. If we don't have the money ourselves, we will find someone who can pay in our stead for the services.
    It's all those Contracts, Money, and low Fi that we are made of.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 02-03-2020 at 06:11 PM.

  38. #38
    Socionics is a spook ashlesha's Avatar
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    Loling at the loving husband & pimp concept.

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    Jesus is the cruel sausage consentingadult's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I read this post and I can't stop thinking about it. @consentingadult, are you saying that the only reason to be in a relationship with a woman is sex?

    I mean, sex is very, very important to me in a relationship, but if it were the only thing I wanted, I'd just hire it out. It would be a lot cheaper.
    there was a smiley at the end of the last line, so that would have meant to take it with a grain of salt. But I did not say 'only', but 'first and foremost', so sex is not the only reason. That being said, sex is an important reason, and biologically probably the most important reason, to be in a relationship with a woman, because, like I said, if it is not, than you might as well hook up with anyone, even someone of your own sex. Or if you are homosexual, you might just as well hook up with someone from the opposite sex. All other aspects for which we engage into a relationship, we can realize with a person of whatever sex. I could share my life with another man, build a future together, get a home with a mortgage, a car, even children, to some extent I could realize an emotional connection with a man (like I do with male family members and friend), but I would not feel the need for having sex with a man.

    I think if we were to really scrutinize our motivations, stripping it of all social constructions modern western societies invented to attribute to the meaning of relationships, sex, in it's widest meaning of the term, is the first and foremost reason. I do not believe in this "women are from Venus and men are from Mars" kind of BS, which some people provide as the reason for man-women relationships, in which each sex has to learn to deal with the oddities of the other sex, exactly because Socionics as well as Jung's theories on animus/anima teach us that man and women are not all that different and that a lot of differences people believe in are just social, cultural constructs, not biological facts. Take a any couple with a female logical type and a male ethical type, for example: who's often wearing the pants?

    As for buying sex: sex is not just lust, it is also intimacy. (and, I dare say, as one gets older, intimacy in sex becomes a lot more important than lust). As far as I can tell, you can't really buy intimacy, intimacy being defined as the capacity to emotional connection, which reaches no greater peak than while making love. Even if someone wanted to sell it, it can't practically happen: intimacy needs time for growth, trust, a certain degree of commitment etc. (and in my case an absolute degree of commitment, because no matter what, I make it a point to be always emotionally available to my GF if she needs me to be available, and I also expect the same from her, so there can be no screwing around, literally and figuratively speaking).
    Last edited by consentingadult; 02-03-2020 at 07:03 PM.
    “I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking

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    Adam Strange's Avatar
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    @consentingadult, I like what you said about intimacy.

    Maybe I didn't mention it because, to me, that part is like water to a fish.

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