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Thread: What things does EII do which might upset an LSE

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    Default What things does EII do which might upset an LSE

    Mostly i just want broad feedback, so am casting a wide net. Name or list (or spout, even!) anything that could be specific to an EII and which LSE does not take well. Thank you.
    "Inasmuch as it is nothing but pure communicability, every face, even the most noble and beautiful, is always suspended on the edge of an abyss"

    They asked the fox, "Who's your witness?" The fox said, "My tail!"

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    On one end of the scale, some have been known to preach excessively in holier-than-thou ways while on the other end, some go deathly silent under moody palls - and many seem to do both to achieve different effects.......

    a.k.a. I/O

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    LSEs don't seem to like it when EIIs try to operate with Se or Ti, which can happen if an EII feels stressed or has been trained to use them. It seems to tend to come across like an insult for whatever reasons and they can react aggressively.

    For example, a little while ago a LSE was helping me gather things when I was in a rush. They picked up a little ice chest that I was going to use to pack some food and almost put it on the table. The ice chest had been on the ground lots of places and I didn't want it on the clean table top. The LSE was moving quickly so I didn't have time to say, "Please don't put that there," so as the chest was almost on the table I put my hand in the way and pushed it back aside a little. The LSE made a funny face, said, "Oh," and then put it on the floor.

    Later, it came out that the LSE was very bothered by that and interpreted it as me being nearly violent, definitely using too much physical force. From my perspective, that physical motion was my only choice if I wanted to keep the table clean, and according to my recollection the push was not very hard. However, it's entirely possible it was harder than it needed to be; often I have a hard time gauging that type of thing. The LSE, however, has a very good sense for that and interpreted my misjudgment as a personal offense.

    Another example, in a general sense, is if/when I try to argue logically with an LSE. Particularly if they are of a higher intelligence / confidence, they lock up their defenses and will stubbornly argue back, often overwhelming me with their own logics. I find it very hard to "win" in such a situation, even if I'm convinced at my core that I'm right. They have their own competence in the "if A then B" sorts of trains, but then add in a bunch of grounded facts, which they tend to be more confident in than I am. And if they are convinced of the morality of something, heaven help you if you try to sway them, particularly head on (though they are definitely less confident underneath about morality, and that can create cracks that bear fruit later).

    They also don't like outbursts of emotion, especially if they themselves have worked hard on their own predilections toward flares.

    Critique on timing of things makes them really uncomfortable. They get kind of squishy, if that makes sense at all. So, for example, often I'll be communicating with them about things that need to be done and there will be some natural deadlines and more often than not the LSEs will cram the time with more than will be accomplished, and unless I'm delicate about how I approach what I see as an impending disaster they can get a bit bent out of shape. (The best way I've found to deal with that is to strategically bring up the problematic "what if"s and let them come to their own conclusions that they don't have enough time.) I've had to learn and practice that, though, because a lot of the time these things seem so obvious to me that I just blurt it out.
    INFj / EII / FiNe
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    "Have courage and be kind." - Cinderella's mom

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    On one end of the scale, some have been known to preach excessively in holier-than-thou ways while on the other end, some go deathly silent under moody palls - and many seem to do both to achieve different effects.......

    a.k.a. I/O
    Hahaaaa, lol truth.

    I don't know why the latter would piss anybody off though.

    I also think telling them what to do ruffles their feathers, and acting like or knowing more about something they feel they should know more than you about also becomes uncomfortable for them? I think? Seems that way. I was recently talking about trading with my LSE friend, and just giving him some tips I heard about whats a good stock to buy and what's not, and it felt like he kept trying to make it seem like he was giving me tips or something instead of the other ay around. Idk, like he was sort of turning it around on me or trying to one up me or just changing the subject. Maybe it was a PoLR thing instead, talking about when to buy and when to sell and what will grow in the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    LSEs don't seem to like it when EIIs try to operate with Se or Ti, which can happen if an EII feels stressed or has been trained to use them. It seems to tend to come across like an insult for whatever reasons and they can react aggressively.

    For example, a little while ago a LSE was helping me gather things when I was in a rush. They picked up a little ice chest that I was going to use to pack some food and almost put it on the table. The ice chest had been on the ground lots of places and I didn't want it on the clean table top. The LSE was moving quickly so I didn't have time to say, "Please don't put that there," so as the chest was almost on the table I put my hand in the way and pushed it back aside a little. The LSE made a funny face, said, "Oh," and then put it on the floor.

    Later, it came out that the LSE was very bothered by that and interpreted it as me being nearly violent, definitely using too much physical force. From my perspective, that physical motion was my only choice if I wanted to keep the table clean, and according to my recollection the push was not very hard. However, it's entirely possible it was harder than it needed to be; often I have a hard time gauging that type of thing. The LSE, however, has a very good sense for that and interpreted my misjudgment as a personal offense.

    Another example, in a general sense, is if/when I try to argue logically with an LSE. Particularly if they are of a higher intelligence / confidence, they lock up their defenses and will stubbornly argue back, often overwhelming me with their own logics. I find it very hard to "win" in such a situation, even if I'm convinced at my core that I'm right. They have their own competence in the "if A then B" sorts of trains, but then add in a bunch of grounded facts, which they tend to be more confident in than I am. And if they are convinced of the morality of something, heaven help you if you try to sway them, particularly head on (though they are definitely less confident underneath about morality, and that can create cracks that bear fruit later).

    They also don't like outbursts of emotion, especially if they themselves have worked hard on their own predilections toward flares.

    Critique on timing of things makes them really uncomfortable. They get kind of squishy, if that makes sense at all. So, for example, often I'll be communicating with them about things that need to be done and there will be some natural deadlines and more often than not the LSEs will cram the time with more than will be accomplished, and unless I'm delicate about how I approach what I see as an impending disaster they can get a bit bent out of shape. (The best way I've found to deal with that is to strategically bring up the problematic "what if"s and let them come to their own conclusions that they don't have enough time.) I've had to learn and practice that, though, because a lot of the time these things seem so obvious to me that I just blurt it out.
    Yeah I have that same problem when I'm arguing with logical types. I know I'm right, but I can't back myself up, so I end up losing anyway lol. Some ethical types can beat me too. I've especially had issues with SEEs, of course.

    Also, good that you mentioned the possibility that LSE reacts negatively to EII because they've been trained to use Se and Ti. Wish there were more elaboration on that.

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    Rebelondeck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    ......I don't know why the latter would piss anybody off though......
    When it's used as a form of punishment, which wouldn't phase some types but LSEs don't usually like the silent treatment.........

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Another thing I thought of is that Si types can be particular about random things, liking them to be just so. Anyone unfamiliar with them, including an EII, could bumble along and make a mess with that particular thing, upsetting the LSE.

    For example, one time I brushed my hand along a LSEs car and they shouted, "Don't touch the car!" and then noticing my surprised and disgruntled face added, "I don't want you to scratch it." It was not exactly a new car and I was not pressing very hard, but for whatever (probably logical) reason me not running my hand along it was very important to that LSE. And that's a type of thing I would just unthinkingly do.

    I think especially if an EII is being more Ne that is likely to happen. Obviously once you know someone you can avoid known annoyances, but even after knowing someone for a long time things still can come up.
    INFj / EII / FiNe
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    "Have courage and be kind." - Cinderella's mom

    "Fear wist not to evade as Love wist to pursue." - Francis Thompson

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aramas View Post
    Yeah I have that same problem when I'm arguing with logical types. I know I'm right, but I can't back myself up, so I end up losing anyway lol. Some ethical types can beat me too. I've especially had issues with SEEs, of course.
    It can be quite frustrating, and even disheartening.


    Quote Originally Posted by Aramas View Post
    Also, good that you mentioned the possibility that LSE reacts negatively to EII because they've been trained to use Se and Ti. Wish there were more elaboration on that.
    Elaboration from me?
    INFj / EII / FiNe
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    "Have courage and be kind." - Cinderella's mom

    "Fear wist not to evade as Love wist to pursue." - Francis Thompson

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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    It can be quite frustrating, and even disheartening.




    Elaboration from me?
    Yeah if you wanted.

    And yeah it is frustrating.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    LSEs don't seem to like it when EIIs try to operate with Se or Ti, which can happen if an EII feels stressed or has been trained to use them. It seems to tend to come across like an insult for whatever reasons and they can react aggressively.

    For example, a little while ago a LSE was helping me gather things when I was in a rush. They picked up a little ice chest that I was going to use to pack some food and almost put it on the table. The ice chest had been on the ground lots of places and I didn't want it on the clean table top. The LSE was moving quickly so I didn't have time to say, "Please don't put that there," so as the chest was almost on the table I put my hand in the way and pushed it back aside a little. The LSE made a funny face, said, "Oh," and then put it on the floor.

    Later, it came out that the LSE was very bothered by that and interpreted it as me being nearly violent, definitely using too much physical force. From my perspective, that physical motion was my only choice if I wanted to keep the table clean, and according to my recollection the push was not very hard. However, it's entirely possible it was harder than it needed to be; often I have a hard time gauging that type of thing. The LSE, however, has a very good sense for that and interpreted my misjudgment as a personal offense.

    Another example, in a general sense, is if/when I try to argue logically with an LSE. Particularly if they are of a higher intelligence / confidence, they lock up their defenses and will stubbornly argue back, often overwhelming me with their own logics. I find it very hard to "win" in such a situation, even if I'm convinced at my core that I'm right. They have their own competence in the "if A then B" sorts of trains, but then add in a bunch of grounded facts, which they tend to be more confident in than I am. And if they are convinced of the morality of something, heaven help you if you try to sway them, particularly head on (though they are definitely less confident underneath about morality, and that can create cracks that bear fruit later).

    They also don't like outbursts of emotion, especially if they themselves have worked hard on their own predilections toward flares.

    Critique on timing of things makes them really uncomfortable. They get kind of squishy, if that makes sense at all. So, for example, often I'll be communicating with them about things that need to be done and there will be some natural deadlines and more often than not the LSEs will cram the time with more than will be accomplished, and unless I'm delicate about how I approach what I see as an impending disaster they can get a bit bent out of shape. (The best way I've found to deal with that is to strategically bring up the problematic "what if"s and let them come to their own conclusions that they don't have enough time.) I've had to learn and practice that, though, because a lot of the time these things seem so obvious to me that I just blurt it out.

    This should be stickied its so true and great.

    fwiw and not that it matters, but that's a big roger that for not my duals.

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    I have typed one of my best friend(SEE-Fi)'s young kids as LSE-Te, and he's my little prince. I love him like my own and for the most part we have an incredibly strong bond, one my friend sometimes gets a lil jealous of - but the one thing I have observed can ignite a spark in him is if I am reserved in showing kindness/affection. On the one hand, I am EII-Ne and have a tendency to not focus very intensely on my Fi unless something comes into conflict with it; but secondly, because he is growing up I try to instill a little more independence in him by addressing his needs when he hurts himself or gets into trouble, for example, but not letting myself expend a lot of time in "poor baby" mode. He seems to perceive that I "could" be more doting, and thus gets very angry with me and lashes out as if I am withholding something from him.

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    I have different political views and stand on opposite political grounds and our debates are heated but great sex makes up for it all. I mean hardly ever argue or have any significant clashes. We naturally assumed our roles and strengths. We have great sex? Also. I mean he stresses and I take over and I stress and he takes over. We’re an awesome team
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    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    My husband says he doesn’t want ideas and he doesn’t want something else can’t remember what that was. He loves which is for me to listen to him talk and bounce off of my ideas and let me filter through you
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    My husband says he doesn’t want ideas and he doesn’t want something else can’t remember. He loves listen to me talk and bounce off of my ideas and let me filter through you
    Let's see. He doesn't want Ne, he forgets everything, and he loves Fi. That sounds LIE to me.

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Let's see. He doesn't want Ne, he forgets everything, and he loves Fi. That sounds LIE to me.
    I am the one who forgot lol
    And if he is LIE cool
    But the Si is pretty darn high
    He lacks impulse and spontaneity
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Being late or forgetful. Monologuing too much. Putting things away in the wrong places. Being a spineless wimp. Being wrong about political issues.

    Obviously these aren't traits that EIIs have. They're just traits that EIIs could have.
    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    Another thing I thought of is that Si types can be particular about random things, liking them to be just so. Anyone unfamiliar with them, including an EII, could bumble along and make a mess with that particular thing, upsetting the LSE.
    This.

    LSE
    1-6-2 so/sx
    Johari Nohari

    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DirectorAbbie View Post
    Being late or forgetful. Monologuing too much. Putting things away in the wrong places. Being a spineless wimp. Being wrong about political issues.

    Obviously these aren't traits that EIIs have. They're just traits that EIIs could have.
    This.
    1. He loves it when Iím more timely than him
    2. I Hardly talk
    3. We have a place for everything and itís a routine
    4. Iím nobodyís pushover lol
    5. We are each on our own political views and we are each right -heís a hardcore Republican and Iím not
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    When it's used as a form of punishment, which wouldn't phase some types but LSEs don't usually like the silent treatment.........

    a.k.a. I/O
    He knows when Iím silent Iím upset so he just asks whatís up and I tell him.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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