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Thread: ESI and competing....

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    Spiritual Advisor Hope's Avatar
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    Default ESI and competing....

    The ESI (all females) I've met in person and have a close relation with seem to have a competitive streak that sooner or later appears in relations with other sensors in all areas (business, colleagues, family, even cooking skills etc), some kind of attitude of getting ahead through subtly tarnishing others. The thing is that they seem to consider situations and see others as competitors often. This happens in a subtle way. Not overly aggressive or anything.

    Is it Gamma or just ESI?
    What are your experiences with it?
    Last edited by Hope; 12-27-2019 at 04:36 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy View Post
    The ESI (all females) I've met in person and have a close relation with seem to have a competitive streak that sooner or later appears in relations with other sensors in all areas (business, collegues, family, even cooking skills etc), some kind of attitude of getting ahead through subtly tarnishing others. The thing is that they seem to consider situations and see others as competitors often. This happens in a subtle way. Not overly aggressive or anything.

    Is it Gamma or just ESI?
    What are your experiences with it?
    This seems to me like every woman ever. Except SLI's, of course. Lol.

    Men will compete with each other and might get angry or violent, but at the end of the day, they will walk away and leave the basic "you" intact. When women compete, it's total war to erase the bloodline.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 12-27-2019 at 04:32 PM.

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    Spiritual Advisor Hope's Avatar
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    No Adam. I think its some kind of mentality or interpretation of reality, mb its more prone to happen or to be accepted in some quadras than others. I get distant and distrustful of ppl like that, I feel they are not being honest even if acting polite on the outside.

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    Yup lol I feel like this is one the primary purposes of the negativist ESI, which according to Strat, is “to reveal [Fi] all the existing negative ethical qualities and tendencies and to fight [Se] for their removal, exclusion, and elimination, to the point of their complete eradication.” This can get dicey because ESIs use their own subjective values as a measuring stick by which to weigh others, which might very well contradict what someone else believes is the “right” belief or action, thereby potentially giving the ESI a reputation for “subtly tarnishing others” in a way that might seem malicious or mean spirited, whereas from the ESI’s perspective, they’re just carrying out an almost obligatory “public service announcement,” especially when it comes to protecting and preserving their inner circle from those who might do them harm, in the ESI's estimation.

    I’ve always had many Fi PoLR types as close friends and associates and all of my ESI exes systematically went about trying to remove them from my life >”ILE has a filthy mouth. He’s rubbing off on you.” “You’re going out with SLE tonight? *cold shoulder* “You’re going out with ILE tonight? *seduces me to stay in*” “You’re going out with SLE tonight? *wounded puppy*” “SLE is too flirtacious. I don’t trust him.” “You’re going out with ILE tonight? Let’s go some place else instead.” Se was always used to pressure me, whether that be via seduction and a wet whisper on the ear, the withdrawal of their presence/energy, a spot of righteous indignation/anger, or literally grabbing me by the hand and getting in my space in order to take command of my attention.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy View Post
    No Adam. I think its some kind of mentality or interpretation of reality, mb its more prone to happen or to be accepted in some quadras than others. I get distant and distrustful of ppl like that, I feel they are not being honest even if acting polite on the outside.
    You don't think this is a valued Si vs valued Se problem?

    Si-doms compete by looking great. That can't be easy for other women to compete with.

    My SLI-Te ex was 5'8" and weighed about 115 lbs. She could wear anything and it would look good, but she added good taste to the mix.
    She had this white trenchcoat that looked like it came off a noir actress of the 30's. I don't think one woman in a hundred could wear it well, to say nothing of fitting into it. She was at a University conference and someone stole it from a coat rack.

    This always puzzled me. Like, who would do their clothes shopping at an academic conference? But I now realize that it wasn't stolen to make the thief look better; it was stolen to make my ex-wife look worse.

    Everyone competes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy View Post
    No Adam. I think its some kind of mentality or interpretation of reality, mb its more prone to happen or to be accepted in some quadras than others. I get distant and distrustful of ppl like that, I feel they are not being honest even if acting polite on the outside.
    Yeah, I haven't noticed this in myself or other ESIs I've typed, so I just chalked it up to some interpretation thing and wrote it off, but figured I'd poke my head in lol. Coming across as a "winner" of sorts, I've noticed, sure, but at the expense of others, no. It seems par for the course that I'd be on the defense lol, but I'm not bothered, just haven't noticed. My own interpretation though.

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    I'm not ESI and I can't recall anything that comes to mind.

    All I can say is that I can be some-what competitive in the right circumstance and its usually from a place of internal jealousy and needing that validation for my efforts. I tend toward negativity towards other people, but life has beat into me the lesson of not voicing my negative opinions, the whole nothing good to say don;t say anything. I'm just to aware of where that game leads to and I reject other people who try and play it. Its a subtle form of manipulation, conscious or otherwise, and I see the power play to apparently. If I don't appreciate it in other people, than I also will work towards being better at it myself.

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    ESIs don't seem to be as competitive as say EXEs. They have been known to make attempts to alter the behaviour of others or prove themselves right, and if this means trying to prove others wrong or inferior, then it can get somewhat competitive. However for them, it doesn't seem to be about being top-dog because they tend to be somewhat uncomfortable in the spotlight - it's usually more about them feeling that they hold the moral high ground even though they may not in reality. They do seem to prefer the subtle approach; they certainly don't seem to warm up to the directness that some SLIs exhibit.......

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    ESIs don't seem to be as competitive as say EXEs. They have been known to make attempts to alter the behaviour of others or prove themselves right, and if this means trying to prove others wrong or inferior, then it can get somewhat competitive. However for them, it doesn't seem to be about being top-dog because they tend to be somewhat uncomfortable in the spotlight - it's usually more about them feeling that they hold the moral high ground even though they may not in reality. They do seem to prefer the subtle approach; they certainly don't seem to warm up to the directness that some SLIs exhibit.......

    a.k.a. I/O
    I never said they tried to be the top-dog, that was your own interpretation but thanks for the rest of the explanation. That was what I was referring to in op. And I'm really sorry that your relationship with your SLI ex boyfriend didn't work out and that he was harsh on you.

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    Maybe you´re reading too much into it; some bit of competition while cooking or doing something at work can just be tongue in cheek?

    Even though I have lost a ESI-Se male friend because he royally screwed me during a cycling competition. I waited for him during 3 climbs, but at the fourth climb, when i showed a bit of tiredness, he accelerated. But he had always been envious of my "skills", I saw it coming. I forgave him, but if I could screw him again, I´d royally would, even though 12 years have passed.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    This seems to me like every woman ever. Except SLI's, of course. Lol.

    Men will compete with each other and might get angry or violent, but at the end of the day, they will walk away and leave the basic "you" intact. When women compete, it's total war to erase the bloodline.
    I just see this as a cultural myth with some misogyny or ignorance at its base.

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    I think ESI and SEE will be more outwardly competitive than their Te Gamma compatriots. I know Se gets stereotyped a lot but I believe it has to do with one's own assertion a kind of strike back against the world. Se will be more competitve in the physical sense like a boxing match for instance. ILI and LIE will compete in numerics like money, assets, net worth, or intelligence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anotherperson View Post
    Se will be more competitve in the physical sense like a boxing match for instance. ILI and LIE will compete in numerics like money, assets, net worth, or intelligence.
    T relates to calculating of money. The emboding interest to have money more relates to have material property - Se.

    While the approach is correct.
    To compete = to try be better than other one. From types difference view, higher competing can be linked with more assured regions of strong functions for any type. Mostly strong valued regions, as those are also more interesting.
    So, T types will more compete in logical ideas and methods, they'll more argue and will give more of own influence there. F types will have higher influence in emotional dealing with people, with establishing informal relations between them.

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    I'm playfully competitive. Being genuinely competitive goes against my values. I think that genuine competitiveness is just insecurity manifesting in a destructive way. I compete with my damn self, I don't need to compete with others.

    I imagine that it would be Betas who are more prone to competitiveness, if I'm talking from the theory's resources. They are the ones who seem so obsessed with climbing some sort of social hierarchy/ladder. (Said mockingly): "Mah best frend'z dad'z couzin wuz the owner of [some obscure business nobody cares about]!"
    Last edited by Fluffy Princess Unicorn; 03-27-2023 at 09:48 PM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Maverick View Post
    I'm playfully competitive. Being genuinely competitive goes against my values. I think that genuine competitiveness is just insecurity manifesting in a destructive way. I compete with my damn self, I don't need to compete with others.
    Relatable. I rather "compete" with people around me in a "we're both improving together" kind of mentality. If I see a colleague getting a better grade than me, I get the desire to go better than them in the next test, but I'd never wish for them to do badly. If those around me are getting stronger, it means I can learn something from them to get stronger myself too.

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    I don't think most ESI women will compete in the most literal sense of the word, but rather try to look as if they're the right one in certain situations. They'll win a "game" by abstaining from playing it. Yeah I know that theoretically ESIs are tacticians, but they actually are very good with tactics and I see it as one of their underrated qualities.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Riven View Post
    Relatable. I rather "compete" with people around me in a "we're both improving together" kind of mentality. If I see a colleague getting a better grade than me, I get the desire to go better than them in the next test, but I'd never wish for them to do badly. If those around me are getting stronger, it means I can learn something from them to get stronger myself too.
    I don't compete in this way - if they score better, good for them. I don't really care, as I don't have any sort of drive to be #1 in everything. Such stems from the ego and narcissism. I despise this sort of "me #1, me, me, me, me 1st" thinking. I believe when someone is skilled or talented, we ought to support them in their endeavors, while continuing to do our best ourselves.

    That's not what I meant by playfully competitive. I meant that I engage in playful banter, joking and cutting up in ways where I am 1-upping back and forth with the other person. Play fighting, etc.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Maverick View Post
    I don't compete in this way - if they score better, good for them. I don't really care, as I don't have any sort of drive to be #1 in everything. Such stems from the ego and narcissism. I despise this sort of "me #1, me, me, me, me 1st" thinking. I believe when someone is skilled or talented, we ought to support them in their endeavors, while continuing to do our best ourselves.

    That's not what I meant by playfully competitive. I meant that I engage in playful banter, joking and cutting up in ways where I am 1-upping back and forth with the other person. Play fighting, etc.
    Thank you for clarifying. I'll do this too but I see it as a performative activity, more like to keep things rolling in an interaction. I try to be friendly with most people but with openness I have a tendency to become snarky, so this helps flipping bad situations into good one (I'd hate to be the one talking to me and I regret the things I say right after, this kind of playful interaction is amusing on the other hand).

    And I completely agree with "when someone is skilled or talented, we ought to support them in their endeavors, while continuing to do our best ourselves". I have to admit I can get competitive in an ugly sense, it's not something I'm proud of and I'm trying to change it.

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    We could say Se base have a **tendency** to favor competition, light hearted or otherwise. But I don't think it has anything to do with typology imo. Some people are naturally like that and some are conditioned to act a certain way/believe in certain things

    I think "competition" is stupid unless it's for sports - then that's entirely different. Less personal and more focused on winning by playing on a set of agreed rules. I think the main thing is that in sports people agree and want to compete whereas in other areas of life people just have imaginary competition with others. Like one upping others to make themselves feel better, putting on airs, meanwhile that other person isn't even acknowledging your existence lol it's tragic. The fact you have to do those things point to insecurity and low self worth - to base your value on others opinions of you. I think the saddest thing of all is that by doing this you're inherently giving up your own power and that person automatically "wins"... They were never competing in the first place. You just made yourself look silly, attention seeking, and irritating. Stay in your own lane and I'll stay in mine lol leave me alone and I'll leave you alone capiche

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    I do think there is a time and a place for it. If someone approaches me with it, every now and then, I will put them in their place just to make them fuck off.


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