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Thread: Monotheistic Religions are Poison

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    Default Monotheistic Religions are Poison

    Change my mind.

    For what it's worth, New Age religions are poison too.

    I think monotheistic religions are just a power grab by imperialists. I don't even see evidence for monotheism in the official texts of alleged monotheistic religions. For example, the Bible used by Christians refers to angels, demons, and people with special blessings or curses as actual gods, and not only idols as ironic fake gods. Islam has one "God," but God isn't even considered a spiritual being but some sort of essence. An essence is not really a god, or every religion called polytheist would be monotheistic: Brahma, Krishna, Shiva, or Kali in different versions of Hinduism, Zeus or Chaos in Hellenism, Odin in Asatru, Buddha in Buddhism (as in Buddha consciousness) etc. The fact is 100% of religious texts have some kind of fractal ontology. Superstitious polytheistic beliefs are followed by hicks and seem to be harmless to everyone who doesn't actually subscribe to them, but superstitious monotheistic beliefs gnaw at civilization itself. Non-superstitious beliefs follow the structure I described above. Change my mind.

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    Actually Christians DO believe in magical pagan practises but they try to condemn them harshly. For them magical seemingly phenomena, telepathy, telekinesis, and divination are seen as problematic and terrorizing types of issues and preach avoidance of these things. Further, the concepts of Sin are derived from earlier concepts from Eqyptian religions and usually are discussed in terms of personal morality. Magic for them is one one side of the spectrum to be ignored as wishful thinking, like Harry Potter type stuff, harmless and amusing, all the way up to ligit worship of demonic forces.

    Lots of beliefs, ritual, and practises in monotheism is derivative of mystery cults starting in Mesopotamia, Eqypt, India, Greece and progressing well into the middle ages.

    Some religions such as Gnosticism condemn Monotheistic Abrahamic religions as worshiping a kind of demonic force called Yahweh whose true nature is called the demiurge, a force of within nature that is not the true God. For them the truth can be know in revelatory flashes of insight available to each and every person.

    Christianity, Judaism and Islam have all both progressed Civilization at times and also held it back at times and both of these at the same time at times.

    The scientific materialists are themselves derived from 13th Century spiritual alchemists. Although Science really has solved many once thought of supernatural problems. It has reached several puzzling frontiers in science that can no longer use reductionist thinking to solve.

    So its all a complex mishmash really. Ever evolving.

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    Quote Originally Posted by valhalla View Post
    Actually Christians DO believe in magical pagan practises but they try to condemn them harshly. For them magical seemingly phenomena, telepathy, telekinesis, and divination are seen as problematic and terrorizing types of issues and preach avoidance of these things. Further, the concepts of Sin are derived from earlier concepts from Eqyptian religions and usually are discussed in terms of personal morality. Magic for them is one one side of the spectrum to be ignored as wishful thinking, like Harry Potter type stuff, harmless and amusing, all the way up to ligit worship of demonic forces.

    Lots of beliefs, ritual, and practises in monotheism is derivative of mystery cults starting in Mesopotamia, Eqypt, India, Greece and progressing well into the middle ages.

    Some religions such as Gnosticism condemn Monotheistic Abrahamic religions as worshiping a kind of demonic force called Yahweh whose true nature is called the demiurge, a force of within nature that is not the true God. For them the truth can be know in revelatory flashes of insight available to each and every person.

    Christianity, Judaism and Islam have all both progressed Civilization at times and also held it back at times and both of these at the same time at times.

    The scientific materialists are themselves derived from 13th Century spiritual alchemists. Although Science really has solved many once thought of supernatural problems. It has reached several puzzling frontiers in science that can no longer use reductionist thinking to solve.

    So its all a complex mishmash really. Ever evolving.
    Yes, and I think the mishmash should be embraced but also understood as objectively real, not used to discredit religious belief in favor of "life's a bitch and you die, so let's be lazy bums and drink a lot of conke before we dun exis any mor" or engage in devil worship ("believe in God/s or the boogeyman will get you!") Even Catholic missionaries in Asian go off and adopt a bunch of Buddhist practices without worshiping Buddha because "it's a philosophy, not a religion!" However, it seems like everything is a philosophy from a certain angle. A lot of the same belief systems have existed in all times and places and of course they're not all true or beneficial. Wanton hedonist materialism is fairly universal as the Epicureans in Greece and Charvaka in India, for example. If you want to be a hedonist and die I have no reason to believe that's not what you'll get, but also no reason to believe that that worldview is anything but delusional and sick.

    Yes, post-alchemy is amazing, but we don't need to fall back on irrationalism because science is well past Newton now.

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    You have to be cautious of youtube algorithms. There is a certain point you are brainwashing yourself by what you view. Consuming information can be just as harmful and insidious as consuming food and chemicals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by valhalla View Post
    You have to be cautious of youtube algorithms. There is a certain point you are brainwashing yourself by what you view. Consuming information can be just as harmful and insidious as consuming food and chemicals.
    What on Earth are you on about? Most of my information is from books. I use ethos, logos, pathos assessing an argument or source. Are you a hedonistic materialist nihilist?

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    Quote Originally Posted by coeruleum View Post
    Yes, and I think the mishmash should be embraced but also understood as objectively real,
    I think what is real at the root level is always the physical and biological realities. There are levels of real on top of this. The subjective/objective is not even found at the root level. The root level is an animal of this Earth. This is also where my own personal moral ethics stems from this understanding.

    not used to discredit religious belief in favor of "life's a bitch and you die, so let's be lazy bums and drink a lot of conke before we dun exis any mor" or engage in devil worship ("believe in God/s or the boogeyman will get you!")
    This is a pretty rudimentary summary of what is going on out there. Some people are very literalist when it comes to religion. Some people are total material atheists with no spiritual life what-so-ever.

    Even Catholic missionaries in Asian go off and adopt a bunch of Buddhist practices without worshiping Buddha because "it's a philosophy, not a religion!"
    I've never heard of this, but on face value it makes sense. Buddhism is more of a philosophy than a religion in principle. Although it has been in a position of being a religion in the greater region for Centuries. There are reasons why it was adopted eagerly in the early 1960s in america and onwards. I briefly dappled in it as a late teen and early adult and also had amalgamated many of the concepts into a deep level of intuitional insight. Many years spent mulling over what it teaches. Ultimately I abandoned it. Real insight comes from now, in this time and place, in the culture I find myself, not in adopted practises from another people in another time and place. Really there are only a few key things that hold any real value from Buddhism, whether it be Zen or Thervada or the more Nepalese schools. Its the truths of impermanence, emptiness (no-self), equanimity, and compassion.

    However, it seems like everything is a philosophy from a certain angle. A lot of the same belief systems have existed in all times and places and of course they're not all true or beneficial. Wanton hedonist materialism is fairly universal as the Epicureans in Greece and Charvaka in India, for example. If you want to be a hedonist and die I have no reason to believe that's not what you'll get, but also no reason to believe that that worldview is anything but delusional and sick.
    The world is what you make it.

    Yes, post-alchemy is amazing, but we don't need to fall back on irrationalism because science is well past Newton now.
    The only thing that matters is that you keep searching for your own answers. Seeing the world through the lens of problem solving and predictive rationalizing isn't the only way 'to be'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by coeruleum View Post
    What on Earth are you on about? Most of my information is from books. I use ethos, logos, pathos assessing an argument or source. Are you a hedonistic materialist nihilist?
    Huh?

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    Christian religions are mainly activities that for the most part bring balance to people's lives within themselves and their families. Its also a socially sanctioned activity that helps to build a framework for people.

    In the secular world you don't need to participate, which is a hard one triumph from hundreds of years ago.

    I think it is a bit arrogant of total secular atheists to walk around proclaiming mastery of the Universe and to look down upon religious beliefs and ceremonies for what they possibly are at face value: allegorical ritual and communal expression of wonder, joy, and peace. Social technology with roots in mystical practises. Some history of dogmatic conservatism and also some history of oppressive territorial pursuits. Some religious scholars will try and play hand to hand combat with literalist history, for instance, digging up archeological findings that prove something in the bible, yet this is kind of a wasted effort as imho spirituality was never really about facts and figures anyway. Both sides of this are really missing the point.

    Especially since Scienitific reductionism literally leads to the greatest mystical belief of them all: that everything in the Universe came from nothing in one moment. As long as you can believe that little piece of magic than we will fill in all the rest of the rules, scientists tell us. And really the mathematics of the Cosmic microwave is the most elegant solution that leads to the most counter-intuitive rule of all time: Everything came from Nothing in one moment smaller than the inner electron ring of an atom. Come guys, the Christian idea of genesis is dumb, but our's makes a ton of sense....

    I find it interesting the new merger that is occurring between science and religion.

    Many of the self-help movement ie: the New Age manifestors, such as "the secret" are really derivative of old magic practises of Will summoning. So, the old ways are still alive and well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by valhalla View Post
    I think what is real at the root level is always the physical and biological realities. There are levels of real on top of this. The subjective/objective is not even found at the root level. The root level is an animal of this Earth. This is also where my own personal moral ethics stems from this understanding.
    I'm much more than an animal of this Earth.

    Quote Originally Posted by valhalla View Post
    The only thing that matters is that you keep searching for your own answers. Seeing the world through the lens of problem solving and predictive rationalizing isn't the only way 'to be'.
    Not all answers are anything like equal.

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    It has to do with the structure of the psyche. Other archetypes are subordinated to the archtype of the Self. Monotheism is a higher form of religion than polytheism.
    A true sense-perception certainly exists, but it always looks as though objects were not so much forcing their way into the subject in their own right as that the subject were seeing things quite differently, or saw quite other things than the rest of mankind. As a matter of fact, the subject perceives the same things as everybody else, only, he never stops at the purely objective effect, but concerns himself with the subjective perception released by the objective stimulus.
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    It went downhill after Zoroaster spoke.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    It has to do with the structure of the psyche. Other archetypes are subordinated to the archtype of the Self. Monotheism is a higher form of religion than polytheism.
    That's not monotheism. There are many Selves and if they're all God there are many gods subordinate to one God. Mysticism can't be truly monotheistic. Monotheism is "my dad can beat up your dad" in religion form and not metaphysically coherent. If a Sufi can say "I am Truth [name of Allah]" and call themselves a monotheist they are not using the academic sense of monotheism. Monotheism is an idea used to shame people into fear of a tribal sky god construct by making people equate the idea of oneness with civility and falsely opposing it to superstition. https://biblehub.com/john/10-34.htm This page has every reference to gods in the Christian Bible which includes the Jewish Bible by default. Gods are not God, but the Greeks believed in all-encompassing Zeus and the Norse in Allfather Odin so they would be just as monotheistic as Christianity or Islam. Monotheism is not logically coherent except as an imperialist bully ideology, just as polytheism is not coherent except as a parochial superstition. Academic scholars of religion simply want to confuse people, and this would not be a problem if this Huston Smith nonsense didn't shape religious discourse in even the most isolated and backwards congregations.

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    @coeruleum, you say polytheism is “parochial superstition”, but that’s exactly why monotheism has become more popular. When societies get very large, the idea that there’s a divinity in every rock and tree gets harder and harder to maintain. Monotheistic religions move the divine to a more comfortable distance: to heaven or some other inaccessible place. A type of lip service is paid to the idea that God is everywhere and whatnot, but this is a very different thing than believing that Zeus could literally and physically manifest before you and abscond with your daughter.

    Would you rather that people just abandon religion? If so, do you think that’s likely to happen?

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