Shocking: Duals not immune to divorce

[flames]

I have never had any issues with my dual. They see whatever mood I’m in and expressing and they encourage me to be the opposite when I should be and do the opposite emotion. Especially when I’m down, when I’m angry, when I’m crazy. Especially when they’re 9s - a combo of logical yet relaxed, at peace enough to understand feelings or at the very least attempt to. Yeah, I just really love my duals I guess. It feels romantic when it’s just platonic, actually. Regardless of their gender, sexual orientation - it’s like we’re meant to be in each other’s lives.

But I know for a lot, there ARE struggles. And duality can be the MOST difficult relation for some. It’s more true for one type than another though. Gamma duality seems to be the messiest from what I’ve observed. Two willfully independent people with different views is bound to clash. Some people are abusive or the abused, unhealthy or too healthy (yes, it can cause problems ). You get the point!

[Alonzo]

I have never had any issues with my dual. They see whatever mood I’m in and expressing and they encourage me to be the opposite when I should be and do the opposite emotion. Especially when I’m down, when I’m angry, when I’m crazy. Especially when they’re 9s - a combo of logical yet relaxed, at peace enough to understand feelings or at the very least attempt to. Yeah, I just really love my duals I guess. It feels romantic when it’s just platonic, actually. Regardless of their gender, sexual orientation - it’s like we’re meant to be in each other’s lives.

But I know for a lot, there ARE struggles. And duality can be the MOST difficult relation for some. It’s more true for one type than another though. Gamma duality seems to be the messiest from what I’ve observed. Two willfully independent people with different views is bound to clash. Some people are abusive or the abused, unhealthy or too healthy (yes, it can cause problems ). You get the point!

I had to lulz at the tragic truth of this, at least for me. I've never, in all of my days, had a non messy relationship with a dual I engaged at a close psychological distance, be they family, friend, or lover. They never run "smoothly" and "seamlessly," which I kinda dig in that there are always high stakes, maximum intensity and never a dull moment; and the degree to which we last/succeed does seem to usually come down to our tolerance for a seemingly never-ending game of cat and mouse.

I chalk it up to Gamma NTs not being "victim" types in the same way that Beta NFs are; rather, we're "pseudo-aggressors," especially LIEs who tend to be more outwardly aggressive towards our environment/the world than we ultimately are within an intimate relationship; historically, I've often been the one making the first move > do the lion on a prowl strut, spray pheromones everywhere, don my Captain Save-a-ho cape, perform feats of "strength," throw in some edgelord, antihero shit to show I'm complicated/"large and contain multitudes," and basically do everything that gives the impression of "I'm A LOT, I do the MOST, as you can see my shit Fi can land me in some dicey scenarios, now can you handle that, going forward? Can you trust someone who barely trusts themselves?" lol Because, of course, dat Ni is always looking to the future and at how things will develop over time.

Astonishingly, my duals would always seem to find redeeming qualities in me and believe that I was a much better person than I believed I was (or, at the very least, they tolerated my complexity while pushing me to be better), which had a calming, taming, endearing affect on me and my antics. But once my Fi was activated, it would become anxious af because it realized that it wasn't as good at detecting how trustworthy/loyal my dual was, how truthful they were being when they claimed to actually love my hard to love ass; not to mention, my Ni was always busy trying to find meaning and significance in every action of theirs, in order to keep me "seeing clearly," to keep me from making a mistake. Because, from my vantage point, Se/Fi is sex and desirability on wheels, whether by default or choice/intent. And even though that's what, in part, would initially draw me to them, unfortunately during the period of time where I was testing them with my tomfoolery and temporarily pushed them away, they understandably pulled some stunt queen shit to show me I was never the catch, anyway, and that it was always about them, rightfully so, which meant I could be discarded for a myriad of others licking at their heels (ESI-Se is like a "mini" SEE in this way), thereby simultaneously putting me in my place AND perpetuating the cycle for mutual distrust to always be a prominent factor. lol And that mutual distrust lead to non stop [inevitably destructive] attempts to prove that we never truly needed each other, even though we desperately wanted each other. And once Fi has been good and wounded enough, kiss goodbye any chance of going back to the "better days."

[Adam Strange]

I had to lulz at the tragic truth of this, at least for me. I've never, in all of my days, had a non messy relationship with a dual I engaged at a close psychological distance, be they family, friend, or lover. They never run "smoothly" and "seamlessly," which I kinda dig in that there are always high stakes, maximum intensity and never a dull moment; and the degree to which we last/succeed does seem to usually come down to our tolerance for a seemingly never-ending game of cat and mouse.

I chalk it up to Gamma NTs not being "victim" types in the same way that Beta NFs are; rather, we're "pseudo-aggressors," especially LIEs who tend to be more outwardly aggressive towards our environment/the world than we ultimately are within an intimate relationship; historically, I've often been the one making the first move > do the lion on a prowl strut, spray pheromones everywhere, don my Captain Save-a-ho cape, perform feats of "strength," throw in some edgelord, antihero shit to show I'm complicated/"large and contain multitudes," and basically do everything that gives the impression of "I'm A LOT, I do the MOST, as you can see my shit Fi can land me in some dicey scenarios, now can you handle that, going forward? Can you trust someone who barely trusts themselves?" lol Because, of course, dat Ni is always looking to the future and at how things will develop over time.

Astonishingly, my duals would always seem to find redeeming qualities in me and believe that I was a much better person than I believed I was (or, at the very least, they tolerated my complexity while pushing me to be better), which had a calming, taming, endearing affect on me and my antics. But once my Fi was activated, it would become anxious af because it realized that it wasn't as good at detecting how trustworthy/loyal my dual was, how truthful they were being when they claimed to actually love my hard to love ass; not to mention, my Ni was always busy trying to find meaning and significance in every action of theirs, in order to keep me "seeing clearly," to keep me from making a mistake. Because, from my vantage point, Se/Fi is sex and desirability on wheels, whether by default or choice/intent. And even though that's what, in part, would initially draw me to them, unfortunately during the period of time where I was testing them with my tomfoolery and temporarily pushed them away, they understandably pulled some stunt queen shit to show me I was never the catch, anyway, and that it was always about them, rightfully so, which meant I could be discarded for a myriad of others licking at their heels (ESI-Se is like a "mini" SEE in this way), thereby simultaneously putting me in my place AND perpetuating the cycle for mutual distrust to always be a prominent factor. lol And that mutual distrust lead to non stop [inevitably destructive] attempts to prove that we never truly needed each other, even though we desperately wanted each other. And once Fi has been good and wounded enough, kiss goodbye any chance of going back to the "better days."

My fucking God, this is accurate.

Quoted for posterity.

[Adam Strange]

I’ve been thinking about this for a long while.

I think that the only chance that LIE’s and ESI’s have of long-term getting together is if they either meet in crisis, or have major-failed with others and are now ready to recognize that despite everything else, the dual is The One. No looking sideways, no looking back, just looking at each other.

[Alonzo]

I’ve been thinking about this for a long while.

I think that the only chance that LIE’s and ESI’s have of long-term getting together is if they either meet in crisis, or have major-failed with others and are now ready to recognize that despite everything else, the dual is The One. No looking sideways, no looking back, just looking at each other.

I especially agree with the emboldened, 100 percent–well said. I’ve pretty much resigned myself to the idea that if I do end up with a dual for the long haul, it will be because we’ve both been sufficiently humbled by life (without being bitter), are worn out/tired/battle weary (exhausted our options and nobody else wants our asses), have surrendered the worst aspects of ourselves > needless control, resistance, self-centeredness, suspicion < and are, therefore, unable to do little else besides be “present,” honest, and gracious–when both parties can freely offer those things, then trust is easy. But, damn, what a journey. lol

[FDG]

I had to lulz at the tragic truth of this, at least for me. I've never, in all of my days, had a non messy relationship with a dual I engaged at a close psychological distance, be they family, friend, or lover. They never run "smoothly" and "seamlessly," which I kinda dig in that there are always high stakes, maximum intensity and never a dull moment; and the degree to which we last/succeed does seem to usually come down to our tolerance for a seemingly never-ending game of cat and mouse.

I chalk it up to Gamma NTs not being "victim" types in the same way that Beta NFs are; rather, we're "pseudo-aggressors," especially LIEs who tend to be more outwardly aggressive towards our environment/the world than we ultimately are within an intimate relationship; historically, I've often been the one making the first move > do the lion on a prowl strut, spray pheromones everywhere, don my Captain Save-a-ho cape, perform feats of "strength," throw in some edgelord, antihero shit to show I'm complicated/"large and contain multitudes," and basically do everything that gives the impression of "I'm A LOT, I do the MOST, as you can see my shit Fi can land me in some dicey scenarios, now can you handle that, going forward? Can you trust someone who barely trusts themselves?" lol Because, of course, dat Ni is always looking to the future and at how things will develop over time.

Astonishingly, my duals would always seem to find redeeming qualities in me and believe that I was a much better person than I believed I was (or, at the very least, they tolerated my complexity while pushing me to be better), which had a calming, taming, endearing affect on me and my antics. But once my Fi was activated, it would become anxious af because it realized that it wasn't as good at detecting how trustworthy/loyal my dual was, how truthful they were being when they claimed to actually love my hard to love ass; not to mention, my Ni was always busy trying to find meaning and significance in every action of theirs, in order to keep me "seeing clearly," to keep me from making a mistake. Because, from my vantage point, Se/Fi is sex and desirability on wheels, whether by default or choice/intent. And even though that's what, in part, would initially draw me to them, unfortunately during the period of time where I was testing them with my tomfoolery and temporarily pushed them away, they understandably pulled some stunt queen shit to show me I was never the catch, anyway, and that it was always about them, rightfully so, which meant I could be discarded for a myriad of others licking at their heels (ESI-Se is like a "mini" SEE in this way), thereby simultaneously putting me in my place AND perpetuating the cycle for mutual distrust to always be a prominent factor. lol And that mutual distrust lead to non stop [inevitably destructive] attempts to prove that we never truly needed each other, even though we desperately wanted each other. And once Fi has been good and wounded enough, kiss goodbye any chance of going back to the "better days."

ESI and LIE need to both be busy doing stuff like work or chores. Then there's no time for quarrels or mind games. If/when either LIEs or ESIs start becoming bossy and uncompromising, it's endgame.

[flames]

Oh yeah; want to add that strangely I have never had ANY sort of drama in my relations with LSI. It’s extremely chill and upbeat in a way that’s quite foreign to me but very pleasing.

[flames]

I had to lulz at the tragic truth of this, at least for me. I've never, in all of my days, had a non messy relationship with a dual I engaged at a close psychological distance, be they family, friend, or lover. They never run "smoothly" and "seamlessly," which I kinda dig in that there are always high stakes, maximum intensity and never a dull moment; and the degree to which we last/succeed does seem to usually come down to our tolerance for a seemingly never-ending game of cat and mouse.

I chalk it up to Gamma NTs not being "victim" types in the same way that Beta NFs are; rather, we're "pseudo-aggressors," especially LIEs who tend to be more outwardly aggressive towards our environment/the world than we ultimately are within an intimate relationship; historically, I've often been the one making the first move > do the lion on a prowl strut, spray pheromones everywhere, don my Captain Save-a-ho cape, perform feats of "strength," throw in some edgelord, antihero shit to show I'm complicated/"large and contain multitudes," and basically do everything that gives the impression of "I'm A LOT, I do the MOST, as you can see my shit Fi can land me in some dicey scenarios, now can you handle that, going forward? Can you trust someone who barely trusts themselves?" lol Because, of course, dat Ni is always looking to the future and at how things will develop over time.

Astonishingly, my duals would always seem to find redeeming qualities in me and believe that I was a much better person than I believed I was (or, at the very least, they tolerated my complexity while pushing me to be better), which had a calming, taming, endearing affect on me and my antics. But once my Fi was activated, it would become anxious af because it realized that it wasn't as good at detecting how trustworthy/loyal my dual was, how truthful they were being when they claimed to actually love my hard to love ass; not to mention, my Ni was always busy trying to find meaning and significance in every action of theirs, in order to keep me "seeing clearly," to keep me from making a mistake. Because, from my vantage point, Se/Fi is sex and desirability on wheels, whether by default or choice/intent. And even though that's what, in part, would initially draw me to them, unfortunately during the period of time where I was testing them with my tomfoolery and temporarily pushed them away, they understandably pulled some stunt queen shit to show me I was never the catch, anyway, and that it was always about them, rightfully so, which meant I could be discarded for a myriad of others licking at their heels (ESI-Se is like a "mini" SEE in this way), thereby simultaneously putting me in my place AND perpetuating the cycle for mutual distrust to always be a prominent factor. lol And that mutual distrust lead to non stop [inevitably destructive] attempts to prove that we never truly needed each other, even though we desperately wanted each other. And once Fi has been good and wounded enough, kiss goodbye any chance of going back to the "better days."

The sad part is that the rollercoaster of highs and lows becomes an addiction. Especially with Beta NF it becomes the fixture of the relationship. All of my relationships have ended in tragedy, even the last one which was very positive and stable (except for occasional moments like when I would spend all day waiting for us to meet each other only for the day to end with him saying “Sorry, I’m unable to because of X”, wherein I would sort of punish him for it, because I’m sort of like Rapunzel waiting in my tower for someone to tug at my hair until they reach me. ). The ESI girl I was with would have her Fi hurt by me in ways that I didn’t understand and I often thought it was stupid even, and she would play this on-again-off-again game and constantly block me every time there was a problem instead of communicating it or lashing out which is more of the Fe way of handling it, I suppose.

But the worst one of them all was me and the IEI. I still think to this day he is the love of my life. Hell, we were talking for hours yesterday and he even cancelled work to spend all that time with me. I’ve known him for a year and over a half and spent the entire time trying to save him with no avail because he’s an unhealthy 4 and prefers a mindset of “I shouldn’t be happy with so much suffering in the world, happiness is selfish”. He is currently in an almost-relationship with another moody introvert who’s somehow even mentally worse than him and I kept lecturing him on what he should do and that if he sticks with this person they will drag him into the grave with him. He hates when I do that but I’m really the only person who would (Ej wants you to do the proper thing as you should and will bombard you about it, dammit!). It’s just my FeNi nature of “I must help everyone I love and I see how all these events will unfold”. We also had issues surrounding his identity of being like no one else. If you know me you know I hate the special snowflake persona and I’ve spent a lot of time trying to break him free of it because it only takes you south.

I think EIE can also be slightly pseudo-aggressor too but in a different way. It’s the lecturing on what you should be doing thing, and the forceful expression of every emotion emotion bashing your skull in. I know what is best for you and I’m going to be upfront about it no matter how nasty it sounds because I can’t watch you throw your life away and jump off a cliff, metaphorically speaking. And, like you were saying about the adrenaline rush of a messy relationship... well let me give you an example. When him and I were talking yesterday, my mood swung all over the place. First, it was a regular conversation, then it was my typical biting resentment at him for breaking my heart, then it was me talking about how I’m so happy and him talking about how he’s miserable, then it was me sobbing over how no one will ever love me, then it was me sobbing and expressing my deep love for him, then I was happy again and mushy and we were sharing our poems with each other... My histrionic and Fe ways.

What a mess.