Dislike of duals

[lemontrees]

Does anyone else feel like their duals would consciously value someone much more like themselves than like you?

[Adam Strange]

Does anyone else feel like their duals would consciously value someone much more like themselves than like you?

I absolutely think this is true.

For years, because I was raised by thinkers, I rejected Feelers as potential partners because I had been taught that they were "dumb". All of my friends were thinkers, and so too have been most of my GF's, until the last one convinced me that Socionics' ITR's are actually true.
My Feeling, dual ESI HS buddy actually told me that he didn't think he was very smart, and then he went on to get a PhD in Astrophysics and a job at a leading University. And honestly, I loved the guy in HS and I also thought he was smart, but he wasn't super smart. (In retrospect, he didn't make leaps of intuition, but he made progress by being thorough.)

When I'm out and about in the city and I wear the non-work clothes that I normally wear (which my son has stated make me look like an oblivious homeless person - very NT-ish), my duals completely ignore me.
When I put on a black T and grey jeans and a leather jacket, they start to look at me. At these times, I'm doing what I call my SLE imitation, but Se is Se, and that's what they seem to notice.

[FreelancePoliceman]

Does anyone else feel like their duals would consciously value someone much more like themselves than like you?

Oh yeah, for sure. When I used to envision myself being with a woman (that sounds so euphemistic, doesn’t it — just being in a relationship with one, I mean!) — I tended to imagine someone pretty similar to me. ESEs are not really the first type of person to come to mind when I envision a “perfect” match for me, though I can actually see it. They encourage me to be more out-there, and their positivity and “nice”-ness are genuinely good for me. Usually. There are exceptions.

@Tallmo, continuing the thought I had earlier, when I spend too much time with my SEI I begin to feel drained. Like I’ve got to constantly amp up the Ne and be performative, and “bridge” these constant assumptions and thoughts that she brings up with Ne-Ti, which is fine in the short term, but isn’t in my nature to do constantly. It’s hard to explain. Like at everything in life, she wants these grand ideas that all fit together for her; everything has to be integrated into a grand worldview, maybe. Perfect for an ILE! Whereas I do better with ESEs constantly talking about ideas they’ve already formed — they seem more like they’re constantly asking for advice/refining of their ideas, which comes more easily to me.

On my SEI’s end, she’s expressed a feeling that nothing she does for me is ever enough. That if she brings me food, I’m appreciative, but don’t *seem* to properly appreciate the effort that went into it, and just want more in a few hours — a quality vs quantity type of caregiving, maybe.

[Adam Strange]

Oh yeah, for sure. When I used to envision myself being with a woman (that sounds so euphemistic, doesn’t it — just being in a relationship with one, I mean!) — I tended to imagine someone pretty similar to me. ESEs are not really the first type of person to come to mind when I envision a “perfect” match for me, though I can actually see it. They encourage me to be more out-there, and their positivity and “nice”-ness are genuinely good for me. Usually. There are exceptions.

@Tallmo, continuing the thought I had earlier, when I spend too much time with my SEI I begin to feel drained. Like I’ve got to constantly amp up the Ne and be performative, and “bridge” these constant assumptions and thoughts that she brings up with Ne-Ti, which is fine in the short term, but isn’t in my nature to do constantly. It’s hard to explain. Like at everything in life, she wants these grand ideas that all fit together for her; everything has to be integrated into a grand worldview, maybe. Perfect for an ILE! Whereas I do better with ESEs constantly talking about ideas they’ve already formed — they seem more like they’re constantly asking for advice/refining of their ideas, which comes more easily to me.

On my SEI’s end, she’s expressed a feeling that nothing she does for me is ever enough. That if she brings me food, I’m appreciative, but don’t *seem* to properly appreciate the effort that went into it, and just want more in a few hours — a quality vs quantity type of caregiving, maybe.

Great post, @FreelancePoliceman.

That feeling of "being drained" by a person when you spend too much time with them. Definitely off-dual. Also, the feeling that you aren't giving an off-dual what they need. Very true.

For what it's worth, I haven't experienced either of those things with duals. I can spend time with them and not get tired. I seem to simply want to delve deeper into the activities of a dual, rather than avoiding them. And they seem to always be doing more for me than I expected. And what they do for me is usually exactly what I need.

[Tallmo]

But dating is hard! Look at @Adam Strange ; so many years and he still hasn’t found an ESI wife. What if I end up like that?? Though, hmm, my mother has tried to set me up with girls, lots of whom were ESE. Seems to have thought they’d be a good match for me. I could ask her to do that — “hey Mom, can you try to set me up with someone who’s a lot like you?”

But Adam is older than you (I assume), and dating gets harder as time goes by and all good ones are taken.

I found duals pretty fast when I was new to socionics and wanted to date. Just through an online dating site. We spent a summer together. It wasn't that good for some personal reasons, but that's precisely why I got a better understanding of duality. Because duality is an objective phenomenon. The basic chemistry was always there. She was Creative subtype. I later met other (and more compatible) duals through social dancing.

At one point I and a LII friend of mine were "dual-hunting" together. I remember when he had just met an ESE at a dance and they were talking. I had to leave quickly because they totally occupied the conversation. No need for me anymore. The opposite thing happened when he had been on a date with an ILE and I also met her. Suddenly she and I were talking and he was the outsider.

It's almost a technical thing. You might not have anything in common, but your reactions and interaction become natural. They just flow.

But I'm not trying to tell you to leave your gf. If I were you I would probably ask her to marry me. Activation is compatible and all people have flaws.

@Tallmo, continuing the thought I had earlier, when I spend too much time with my SEI I begin to feel drained. Like I’ve got to constantly amp up the Ne and be performative, and “bridge” these constant assumptions and thoughts that she brings up with Ne-Ti, which is fine in the short term, but isn’t in my nature to do constantly. It’s hard to explain. Like at everything in life, she wants these grand ideas that all fit together for her; everything has to be integrated into a grand worldview, maybe. Perfect for an ILE! Whereas I do better with ESEs constantly talking about ideas they’ve already formed — they seem more like they’re constantly asking for advice/refining of their ideas, which comes more easily to me.

Good description. I feel the same with LIIs. They drain me and pull out too much Fe from me.

My own view on duality right now is that it can be fantastic chemistry and a bliss. But it can also be deceptive because the chemistry kindof takes over and makes you forget that there is maybe not so much real human connection and understanding. (It can be, but not always). I think it is best to look for someone with a decent socionics relation (same quadra + semidual) but someone whom one can genuinely relate to, not just socionically but in a more general way.

[Adam Strange]

But Adam is older than you (I assume), and dating gets harder as time goes by and all good ones are taken.

I found duals pretty fast when I was new to socionics and wanted to date. Just through an online dating site. We spent a summer together. It wasn't that good for some personal reasons, but that's precisely why I got a better understanding of duality. Because duality is an objective phenomenon. The basic chemistry was always there. She was Creative subtype. I later met other (and more compatible) duals through social dancing.

At one point I and a LII friend of mine were "dual-hunting" together. I remember when he had just met and ESE at a dance and they were talking. I had to leave quickly because they totally occupied the conversation. No need for me anymore. The opposite thing happened when he had been on a date with an ILE and I also met her. Suddenly she and I were talking and he was the outsider.

It's almost a technical thing. You might not have anything in common, but your reactions and interaction become natural. They just flow.

But I'm not trying to tell you to leave your gf. If I were you I would probably ask her to marry me. Activation is compatible and all people have flaws.



Good description. I feel the same with LIIs. They drain me and pull out too much Fe from me.

My own view on duality right now is that it can be fantastic chemistry and a bliss. But it can also be deceptive because the chemistry kind of takes over and makes you forget that there is maybe not so much real human connection and understanding. (It can be, but not always). I think it is best to look for someone with a decent socionics relation (same quadra + semidual) but someone whom one can genuinely relate to, not just socionically but in a more general way.

I agree with the bolded part. Duality is definitely a feeling that can take over and make you forget that the two of you might not have much in common.

The LIE-ESI duality is basically based on work, in the sense that both LIE and ESI value work and value a helpmate. (Probably Alpha dualities are based on mutual relaxation.) And as the duals get older without being dualized, they grow further and further apart in their work equivalencies, so joining forces becomes more and more of a problem.

I think that the most ideal situation is where the duals meet before they start their careers, and thus they can grow and progress in step with each other.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBGO_OBp9y8

[redundantoxymoron]

Good description. I feel the same with LIIs. They drain me and pull out too much Fe from me.

Question for you and @FreelancePoliceman, Do you think the draining issue here is due to your introversion or is it specific to the draw on the creative function?

[lkdhf qkb]

Does anyone else feel like their duals would consciously value someone much more like themselves than like you?

Hmm if you mean valuing in terms of a partner, then I think it probably has more to do with upbringing, self-perception and social roles than with a socionic type. There are a lot of material, social and spiritual expectations placed on partners in our (to a large degree) monogamous societies, which have nothing to do with psychology. Duality seems to be something that happens to you more than something you look out for because you value it(at least with non-socionists). It just means psychological compatibility, and I know a lot of people who value other aspects, like cultural background, status, intelligence or physical beauty above that in a partner. At the end of the day however, duality is the more comfortable relationship.....a dual is what you need more than what you value, I guess!

In addition, some socionics/enneagram related things I perceive could get into the way of duality:
- a lot of people that grew up with opposite quadra values will look for them to a certain extent in a partner
- sometimes people marry the person they want to be(they look for what they think they miss in themselves, like their Polr/supervisor) or search for IEs that they repress because of a very strong subtype, like Si-SLIs marrying Te-LSEs
- instinctual stackings are important

[DirectorAbbie]

To my recollection, I always like my duals.

Does anyone else feel like their duals would consciously value someone much more like themselves than like you?

Oh, yes. Not so much the female duals, who seem to end up with my identicals. But the males tend to end up with IXFx types in my limited experience.