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    c esi-se 6w7 spsx ashlesha's Avatar
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    Default Typology Random Thoughts

    Similar to the random thought thread. But not pinned and for random thoughts having to do with socionics, enneagram, big 5, whatever. Especially pertinent when you have a question or comment that isn't worth making a thread about. (Which is what I'm about to do.)

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    c esi-se 6w7 spsx ashlesha's Avatar
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    I went to my immediate manager asking for something to do cuz it's a slow ass day and she was like, "I'll come ask for help moving forward with this thing I'm doing, which is _____ (10 minutes of talking). The project we'll be working on was inspired by ____ and similar to ____."
    She usually communicates similarly and in contrast (in spite of my forum babbling) I can be overly concise in work communication.
    She's EII. Is this a way to discern process and/or declaring types?
    (It also seems compatible for LSEs)

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashlesha View Post
    I went to my immediate manager asking for something to do cuz it's a slow ass day and she was like, "I'll come ask for help moving forward with this thing I'm doing, which is _____ (10 minutes of talking). The project we'll be working on was inspired by ____ and similar to ____."
    She usually communicates similarly and in contrast (in spite of my forum babbling) I can be overly concise in work communication.
    She's EII. Is this a way to discern process and/or declaring types?
    (It also seems compatible for LSEs)
    She doesn’t sound like EII. I have never spoken for 10 minutes my entire life and she could be an extrovert
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    c esi-se 6w7 spsx ashlesha's Avatar
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    When I walked back to the ILI to see if she could find shit for me to do, and saw her sitting on a desk wearing headphones and casually throwing files around


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    Are we talking for 10 minutes straight/monologue or 10 minutes give and take with others? lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    She doesn’t sound like EII. I have never spoken for 10 minutes my entire life and she could be an extrovert

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    I was exaggerating, for the record, lol. Didn't want back and forth to start the thread off. The way she speaks is like, open to interjection, in her tone? Even if I don't take advantage. And maybe 2 or 3 minutes that seemed to drag on to me, cuz like, I got the gist after a couple sentences.

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bouncingoffclouds View Post
    Are we talking for 10 minutes straight/monologue or 10 minutes give and take with others? lol
    I have never spoken for that long in my entire life at any one moment consecutively
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    I’m extremely concise too...”please file!” How???? “By placing them like x”-proceeds to show them how and that’s it
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    My Virgin STEM vs. Chad liberal arts has triggered so many STEM majors who think their geothermal engineering technician degree is useful for anything besides being a corporate slave who barely makes $80,000/year. Liberal arts means academic subjects and that includes math and most science fields. STEM is just a way of pretending corporate training is somehow the same as systematizing-heavy academic fields and driving up demand. Physicists have more in common with poets than technicians. Get over it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    I’m extremely concise too...”please file!” How???? “By placing them like x”-proceeds to show them how and that’s it
    So you'd say being concise is related to introversion and not any reinin dichotomies? Thanks, that answers my question

    I was singing the praises of my higher up EIE boss on the forum the other day and at yesterday's meeting he gave me a sarcastic thumbs up
    (I asked a genuine question that could also be interpreted as a derogatory thing.."is this chart we are required to maintain only to display known information in a more visually compelling way?" Yes. Smarmy thumbs up)

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    Quote Originally Posted by coeruleum View Post
    My Virgin STEM vs. Chad liberal arts has triggered so many STEM majors who think their geothermal engineering technician degree is useful for anything besides being a corporate slave who barely makes $80,000/year. Liberal arts means academic subjects and that includes math and most science fields. STEM is just a way of pretending corporate training is somehow the same as systematizing-heavy academic fields and driving up demand. Physicists have more in common with poets than technicians. Get over it.
    Can you please keep this type of shit in the regular "Random Thoughts" thread? It's just that this has nothing to do with typology and I don't think the thread should be sullied and polluted so early on. Thanks

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    Out of curiosity I did a search. I actually prefer people to be concise when I am not that interested in the subject.

    First page results:


    • Introverted logic
      ...people with well-developed systems of views. He especially likes clear and concise explanations of concepts, rather than a lot of background information about
      15 KB (2,416 words) - 10:12, 15 June 2014
    • Type names
      ... denote the first two [[function|functions]] of the type. This is the most concise type naming system used in socionics that uses letters or words. It is esse
      20 KB (3,057 words) - 20:23, 14 August 2018
    • Vocabulary
      * A penchant for concise formulations ("No. That is incorrect." or "A holon is a whole that is also
      18 KB (2,845 words) - 14:03, 8 June 2010
    • Socionics Demystified: A New Social Psychology for Understanding Relationships
      In the fifth chapter I present a concise analysis of the four relations that exist between types within a Quadra, th In the sixth chapter I present a concise analysis of the eight relations that exist between types outside of a Quadr
      8 KB (1,200 words) - 04:52, 14 July 2016
    • IEE subtypes
      Due to tendency to scatter his attention, prefers to receive information in a concise, clear, memorable form. He doesn't need lengthy explanations, understands e
      14 KB (2,210 words) - 21:05, 14 September 2017
    • LSE subtypes
      ...f strives to keep informed about everything. Relays information in form of concise, clear expressions, and demands the same clear and concrete answers from ot
      11 KB (1,783 words) - 21:06, 14 September 2017
    • EII domain
      ...tely as interesting as things we gather with our {{Ne}}. EIIs aspire to be concise and logical, but have little interest in sitting around entertaining though
      40 KB (7,073 words) - 04:53, 25 March 2011
    • Duality Relations ISTj and ENFj by Stratiyevskaya
      ...n logical interpretation, as intra-structural. From the point of view of a concise and clear set of rules of "subjectivists":
      165 KB (28,060 words) - 06:05, 8 April 2016
    • Forms of Love: Ancient and Novel by Meged
      ...eelings and relationships, we proceed to testing, which will be simple and concise.
      48 KB (7,900 words) - 05:45, 8 April 2016
    • Wikisocion SEI composite
      ...ut lengthy text-book explanations and information that requires especially concise explanations or language that they might have a relatively vague understand
      11 KB (1,740 words) - 20:40, 1 April 2016
    • Wikisocion LII composite
      ...ons, because he sees the intermediate steps as irrelevant. He is often too concise for his own good, making it difficult for others to understand his ideas.
      1
      2 KB (2,043 words) - 22:16, 1 April 2016
    • EIE Profile by Gulenko
      * Democratic approach and concise clear communication.
      23 KB (3,708 words) - 03:39, 6 March 2019

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
    YWIMW

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alonzo View Post
    Can you please keep this type of shit in the regular "Random Thoughts" thread? It's just that this has nothing to do with typology and I don't think the thread should be sullied and polluted so early on. Thanks
    This is a typology random thoughts thread? Burn it with fire.

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    Quote Originally Posted by coeruleum View Post
    This is a typology random thoughts thread? Burn it with fire.
    Actually, I'd rather you be burned with fire. Lol Kidding, of course. Gamma humor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Out of curiosity I did a search. I actually prefer people to be concise when I am not that interested in the subject.

    First page results:


    • Introverted logic
      ...people with well-developed systems of views. He especially likes clear and concise explanations of concepts, rather than a lot of background information about
      15 KB (2,416 words) - 10:12, 15 June 2014
    • Type names
      ... denote the first two [[function|functions]] of the type. This is the most concise type naming system used in socionics that uses letters or words. It is esse
      20 KB (3,057 words) - 20:23, 14 August 2018
    • Vocabulary
      * A penchant for concise formulations ("No. That is incorrect." or "A holon is a whole that is also
      18 KB (2,845 words) - 14:03, 8 June 2010
    • Socionics Demystified: A New Social Psychology for Understanding Relationships
      In the fifth chapter I present a concise analysis of the four relations that exist between types within a Quadra, th In the sixth chapter I present a concise analysis of the eight relations that exist between types outside of a Quadr
      8 KB (1,200 words) - 04:52, 14 July 2016
    • IEE subtypes
      Due to tendency to scatter his attention, prefers to receive information in a concise, clear, memorable form. He doesn't need lengthy explanations, understands e
      14 KB (2,210 words) - 21:05, 14 September 2017
    • LSE subtypes
      ...f strives to keep informed about everything. Relays information in form of concise, clear expressions, and demands the same clear and concrete answers from ot
      11 KB (1,783 words) - 21:06, 14 September 2017
    • EII domain
      ...tely as interesting as things we gather with our {{Ne}}. EIIs aspire to be concise and logical, but have little interest in sitting around entertaining though
      40 KB (7,073 words) - 04:53, 25 March 2011
    • Duality Relations ISTj and ENFj by Stratiyevskaya
      ...n logical interpretation, as intra-structural. From the point of view of a concise and clear set of rules of "subjectivists":
      165 KB (28,060 words) - 06:05, 8 April 2016
    • Forms of Love: Ancient and Novel by Meged
      ...eelings and relationships, we proceed to testing, which will be simple and concise.
      48 KB (7,900 words) - 05:45, 8 April 2016
    • Wikisocion SEI composite
      ...ut lengthy text-book explanations and information that requires especially concise explanations or language that they might have a relatively vague understand
      11 KB (1,740 words) - 20:40, 1 April 2016
    • Wikisocion LII composite
      ...ons, because he sees the intermediate steps as irrelevant. He is often too concise for his own good, making it difficult for others to understand his ideas.
      1
      2 KB (2,043 words) - 22:16, 1 April 2016
    • EIE Profile by Gulenko
      * Democratic approach and concise clear communication.
      23 KB (3,708 words) - 03:39, 6 March 2019
    Are you making @Sol into my dual?
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    As I take myself back to high school times and philosophy class I realized that language is too imprecise and we are doomed. Then I thought that only pure symbolic manipulation could save me and I went to to study science and math.

    Turns out that someone has begun to mull over it way before me and came up with logically very consistent language that no human including the creator himself can not speak.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ithkuil
    MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
    Winning is for losers

     

    Sincerely yours,
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    Life is a joke but do you have a life?

    Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org

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    I had dinner tonight with my SEI girlfriend and her SEE friend. I try to avoid reducing everything to Socionics, but it was interesting to think about their dynamic. The two of them were friendly, but distant in a way from each other. They’re opposites in many ways, but they also balance the excesses of each other — the SEE loosens my SEI up and gets her more “out there”, and my SEI slows the SEE down and helps her think through things. The Socionical relation between them (Contrary) isn’t great, but I hope they continue to be friends.

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    I was looking at consentingadult's thread on IEE-LSE and I was surprised that someone would be satisfied using Socionics just to forgive people for their foibles. Like "Well I'm THIS and you're THAT so let's just be flexible and accepting because it's a pattern". That's not the message I got upon discovering Socionics material.


    1) A crucial part of learning Personality Psychology is using a modeling phase to reproduce other people's behaviors for yourself. That means adopting the full range of Information Elements.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Method...mming#Modeling
    2) That means having a self-image that can judge when there is something missing.
    https://i.imgur.com/G3QJMPG.png
    3) That means confronting the range of emotional life in humanity.
    https://i.imgur.com/JdiYVP4.png
    4) That means Sophia & Phronesis
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phronesis#Aristotle


    As far as the brain is concerned there are really only 4 levels to any organization
    1) Hand-skills, Speech-acts, and Tool-use (Impulse)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heideg...#Ready-to-hand
    2) Means-and-Ends (Service)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Task_analysis
    3) Delegation and Teamwork (Division-of-labor)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teamwork#Processes
    4) Impulse-control (Investment/Detachment)
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23889930


    is not a mystery. It's perfectly OK to comprehend the situation AND proceed to problem-solve a solution.

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    It seems to me like Astrology, Tarot and other similar superstitions are not indicative of Ni ego, but of Ni-seeking or demonstrative Ni

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    c esi-se 6w7 spsx ashlesha's Avatar
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    I wonder if it's type relevant that when I told IEI that I'd like psychology as a researcher dealing with papers on it and stuff but wouldn't wanna deal with people and their problems, he was like, "huh.. why!?" And when I asked if he'd be comfortable doing the people stuff, he was like, "yeah, why not?"
    It's not an Fi/Fe thing, is it? I'd expect his reaction more from any extrovert. I don't know which of us is more extroverted. He more frequently does things with others, I guess, even though I think of him as a mega-introvert because he's less of a get up and go, do-er, active type.

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    c esi-se 6w7 spsx ashlesha's Avatar
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    If this is Si, how the hell can you hate it?


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    Quote Originally Posted by ashlesha View Post
    If this is Si, how the hell can you hate it?

    Lol maybe when it consumes the person’s whole day? Idk just a guess
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashlesha View Post
    I wonder if it's type relevant that when I told IEI that I'd like psychology as a researcher dealing with papers on it and stuff but wouldn't wanna deal with people and their problems, he was like, "huh.. why!?" And when I asked if he'd be comfortable doing the people stuff, he was like, "yeah, why not?"
    It's not an Fi/Fe thing, is it? I'd expect his reaction more from any extrovert. I don't know which of us is more extroverted. He more frequently does things with others, I guess, even though I think of him as a mega-introvert because he's less of a get up and go, do-er, active type.
    No it’s not an Fi Fe think at all because I love psychology and helping people with their problems and emotions. I think its how you would rather use your time thing (priorities).
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by ashlesha View Post
    If this is Si, how the hell can you hate it?

    Hard to move, too warm, distracts me from thinking etc

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    Since I made this thread I feel entitled to post like a rabid motherfucker when I have lots of bored time on my hands. The forum obviously provokes lots of typology thoughts and other social media provokes thoughts that can quickly be converted since this typology shit is old hat (even if I ask a lot of questions because posturing as an expert isn't my thing).

    Anyway one little way that IEI bf stays a step away to keep an aggressor alert even though I "gottem?" Its not for the purpose of titillating me or anything, he's just not that into food.. but when I cook something for the week I get to feel accomplished and like a winner when he actually fuckin eats it instead of a handful of spinach for lunch or something.
    Really, it might not explicitly be a relationship or romance thing, but I feel like this kinda worldly detachment is tied up with the whole "victim" thing. More obviously than one might think.

    I mean yeah, cuz it's related to Ni, blah blah. But you might not have to find an excuse to stomp your feet and leave for a day to maintain interest.

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    I know this male SLE-Se who was unhappily married to an introverted woman who seemed ill all the time. They argued a lot, and she died suddenly last year. Before she passed away, the SLE-Se showed me a picture of a female, kind of destituted, SEE and said he was seeing her, but had to drop her because she "was too crazy".

    A month after his wife died, he went to California on business and on the first night there, met and bedded an IEI female who was in the process of getting a divorce from her LSE husband. The SLE told me that she was a good catch because the husband was rich and she'd get half because she was physically abused by the LSE. For six months, the SLE and the IEI carried on a long distance relationship, spending a couple weeks at a time with each other as the opportunities presented themselves. I thought he'd finally found The One, but today, the SLE-Se told me that his romance with the IEI was off "because she was too controlling", and then he showed me pictures of a woman who looked like an Se-dom that he'd had a brief fling with last week. "But it wasn't serious. Just fun for a few days. She loved sex."

    And then he told me that he had just asked out the LSI receptionist in the building, who is divorced with a grown LII son. I'm wondering how that's going to go. Lol.

    The weird thing is, he's definitely oversharing his private life with me, and now I'm wondering if I do that with other people. SLE's and LIE's both have 1D Fi and 2D Fe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I know this male SLE-Se who was unhappily married to an introverted woman who seemed ill all the time. They argued a lot, and she died suddenly last year. Before she passed away, the SLE-Se showed me a picture of a female, kind of destituted, SEE and said he was seeing her, but had to drop her because she "was too crazy".

    A month after his wife died, he went to California on business and on the first night there, met and bedded an IEI female who was in the process of getting a divorce from her LSE husband. The SLE told me that she was a good catch because the husband was rich and she'd get half because she was physically abused by the LSE. For six months, the SLE and the IEI carried on a long distance relationship, spending a couple weeks at a time with each other as the opportunities presented themselves. I thought he'd finally found The One, but today, the SLE-Se told me that his romance with the IEI was off "because she was too controlling", and then he showed me pictures of a woman who looked like an Se-dom that he'd had a brief fling with last week. "But it wasn't serious. Just fun for a few days. She loved sex."

    And then he told me that he had just asked out the LSI receptionist in the building, who is divorced with a grown LII son. I'm wondering how that's going to go. Lol.

    The weird thing is, he's definitely oversharing his private life with me, and now I'm wondering if I do that with other people. SLE's and LIE's both have 1D Fi and 2D Fe.
    Wow what a story or some
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    This is actually a perfect place for me to blather because the shit I want to post is usually tangential anyway (heads up, people who type me Ne)

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    I accidentally hit post on the last one. Anyway. Socionics to me is a conceptual toy that I "believe" like tarot and the whole let's jump on @Singu thing in another thread had me wondering how you could be stringently against something while understanding it was possible to hold it so loosely. Cuz I was wondering if they understand but they've been around long enough they have to. I struggle with reconciling it though. I guess if people were murdering toddlers, thinking about murdering toddlers, or casually entertaining an "amusing" idea about murdering toddlers, they'd all be bad, even if progressively more tolerable. They'd still need resistance even if they didn't REALLY mean it in the sense that most people don't really "mean" socionics to the point of using it to dictate relationships or something. (Obviously murdering toddlers is worse than talking about socionics, but if one were to conceptualize the latter as "bad," even if not equally bad.)

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    Inuyasha and Kagome is the cutest SLE-IEI pairing I've ever known. Haha both of them actually did the "play-fighting" thing a lot, they will argue and speak harshly to each other all the time but they're actually in love with each other and you can see lots of sparks between them. In the final episode, they ended up getting married to each other. The perfect ending for a hopeless romantic like myself.


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    Folks around here seem to enjoy shitting on Gamma values as if they are inherently "bad" and maladaptive, which is completely wrong and an unfair characterization.

    First off, theoretically, each of the Quadras and the values therein can spoil and rot the socion if they dominate for too long. Secondly, at their most bare, Gamma values come down to rhe notion that resources (and the pursuit/accumulation of them) grant freedom/autonomy/individuality; resources allow you to survive on both a practical/realistic and metaphysical level > you get to do what you want, to express yourself however you please, to be your most authentic self/to self-actualize. Yes, taken to an extreme (like most things), that can get rather dodgy, but done moderately, that seems like a healthy and reasonable premise.
    Last edited by Alonzo; 11-24-2019 at 08:19 AM.

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    I grew up with a female IEI-Fe cousin. We are three weeks apart in age and we spent a lot of time together as kids. I have pictures of the two of us playing together, having birthdays together, taking baths together, and sleeping together. This ended around the time we were ten years old and our respective parents moved apart. I love my cousin and I rarely get to see her, since she lives in Tucson and I live in Ann Arbor, but we call each other and stay in touch.

    I have a strange relationship with her. I love her as a family member and feel that we are essentially friends forever, but during the times we have actually gotten together in recent years, she has gotten tired of me very fast. I, in turn, enjoy being around her but I find that there seems to be some unbridgeable gap between us.

    Socionics, of course, accounts for this by calling the relationship “Supervision” and has very little good to say about it. And I think Socionics is correct here. Despite the close family connection that she and I might feel for each other, there is a values gap.

    I haven’t seen my cousin in person for about two years, but I know an IEI-Fe who is fairly local, divorced, intelligent and sensible and who also likes to go out to lunch with me occasionally.

    Yesterday, we went to the library together and then to dinner. We had a great time talking about life, our work, our mutual acquaintances, and our plans for the future. Before we parted to go to our separate homes, we hugged in the parking lot. She seemed happy and amazed at this, even though I’ve told her many times that she has been friend-zoned.

    What I find to be amazing about this relationship is that, similarity to my cousin, I feel great affection towards this woman but I also feel that there is an uncrossible gulf between us.

    In contrast, when I went on a date with an ESI-Se a year ago, I felt like the more we talked and the closer we got, the easier things became. Her reaction to this was to decline my offers to go out again. She might be Avoidant, or I might be unsuitable, IDK, and it doesn’t matter at this point; I’ve adjusted my expectations and moved on.

    What does matter is the subjective commonality of the in- and out-Quadra experiences. Just as my two previous LSI GF’s felt to me as if they were identical to each other in almost every way, so too do the two IEI-Fe’s. Perhaps there really are only sixteen people in the world.

    Now, perhaps, I can answer the question asked by Cordwainer Smith. “Where” I cried, “is my own true love?”


    In Alpha Ralpha Boulevard, the answer was, “The naked cat-girl with the blazing hair? She left to get some clothing.”
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 11-24-2019 at 01:41 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alonzo View Post
    Folks around here seem to enjoy shitting on Gamma values as if they are inherently "bad" and maladaptive, which is completely wrong and an unfair characterization.

    First off, theoretically, each of the Quadras and the values therein can spoil and rot the socion if they dominate for too long. Secondly, at their most bare, Gamma values come down to rhe notion that resources (and the pursuit/accumulation of them) grant freedom/autonomy/individuality; resources allow you to survive on both a practical/realistic and metaphysical level > you get to do what you want, to express yourself however you please, to be your most authentic self/to self-actualize. Yes, taken to an extreme (like most things), that can get rather dodgy, but done moderately, that seems like a healthy and reasonable premise.
    They seem to enjoy shitting on me as well.

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    I've been thinking about dating a lot in the past few years.

    I was talking yesterday to a female IEI-Fe friend about an ESI that I really like, and she asked me if that was Bonnie? I had to think for a minute about who she meant, but then realized that Bonnie was the ESI-Se that I chased really hard for three dates and then just stopped trying to ask out again. She was always busy and seemed to be agreeing to the dates out of politeness, although I doubt if she'd have gone out with me at all if that was the only reason.

    I liked Bonnie immediately. She was standoffish, sassy, doubtful, and seemed to jump impulsively at things, including me. I liked her face. I liked the way she walked. I liked her family orientation and her hopes for the future. But she was Sx-last, and I didn't want a repeat of my very chilly marriage, so I stopped asking her out.
    I later bumped into her at a lunch place. I'm afraid I let my pride get the better of my good judgement. I asked her if she'd still be willing to go out, and she said Yes, but didn't seem enthusiastic. So I let it drop.

    In retrospect, I stopped as soon as I saw a definite red flag. I think Gammas do this to prevent investment losses. I think this is what some ESI's are doing with me. Lol.

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    I love Tucson @Adam Strange

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    Quote Originally Posted by bouncingoffclouds View Post
    I love Tucson @Adam Strange
    Tucson is great, Bouncingoffclouds. I visit often. They have the University of Arizona there, where my best ESI friend works, and the great Observatories on Kitt Peak are nearby, and they have Starizona and the Optics department at the University and the Mirror Lab under the stadium, and the women's softball team, and rock shops, and some great restaurants, and my cousin lives there on the North side of town, near Roller Coaster Rd.

    What is not so great are the poisonous creatures in the desert, the heat, the dryness, the conservative politics, and the lack of good, high paying job opportunities for most people.

    But it is a great, great place to visit.

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    Yes, when I lived there I often lived on the north side/lower foothills too The cost of living is actually much better than in Phoenix as far as housing is concerned. Conservative politics sucks I agree, but it's actually one of the more liberal places in the state.

    You should go during gem show season in January/February. I have so many gems just by living there and going out places. I also saw Jupiter and it's moon at Sky Bar through the telescope (as well as Saturn through the U of A telescope )

    It's a great place for hiking and nature. Mount Lemmon is another place there you should visit if you have not. It's amazing how it transforms from thick saguaro desert, to high desert/grassland, to complete forest with many feet of snow in the winter!

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Tucson is great, Bouncingoffclouds. I visit often. They have the University of Arizona there, where my best ESI friend works, and the great Observatories on Kitt Peak are nearby, and they have Starizona and the Optics department at the University and the Mirror Lab under the stadium, and the women's softball team, and rock shops, and some great restaurants, and my cousin lives there on the North side of town, near Roller Coaster Rd.

    What is not so great are the poisonous creatures in the desert, the heat, the dryness, the conservative politics, and the lack of good, high paying job opportunities for most people.

    But it is a great, great place to visit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by queentiger View Post
    They seem to enjoy shitting on me as well.
    Well, speaking solely of your personality, based on what you've showcased here, you can be a particular breed of "a lot." Lol And this is coming from someone who can also be "a lot" in a similar manner (read: pugnacious, snarky, head strong, haughty, imperious, opinionated); in some spaces/contexts those traits can serve you well and in others, lead to a pitchfork carrying mob calling for your demise. Lol

    When it comes down to it, I'm a huge proponent of "take it or leave it" > accept me as I am or fuck off. It's just that you must also be willing to accept the consequences and repercussions that come with that way of interfacing with the world. Lots of folks may opt to "leave it," which will place limitations on you. It's up to you to decide how comfortable you are with those limitations. However, inevitably, I believe that you/everyone will be put into a situation where certain self-adjustments may be necessary for your continued mental/spiritual/physical wellbeing.

    I've mentioned before that you remind me a lot of my best friend, who is ILE and essentially believes that he should always be allowed to unabashedly say whatever [provocative, shit-stirring] thing he wants to without negative consequence (directed at himself), all while consciously downplaying and underestimating the ambition of hidden agenda Fe, which can manifest as "please love/accept/admire me despite myself!" Lol ILEs are great for saying what others won't say or can't see (which, led by Ne can be quite "colorful"), especially if it's true according to their Ti--it's one of the ways they expand boundaries and provoke thought, which can lead to understanding, and possibly change and innovation. This, in part, is their contribution to the health of the socion, which means that there is implicit value in their manner of being. But with 2D Fe, those provocations can be a bit rough around the edges and hard for others to readily swallow, which can certainly create a backlash. How NTs "help" the word is rarely appreciated at face value due to some of our "social deficits." Lol [Cue the SFs that help us in this regard]

    In addition to these other already contentious identities, your trans identity may also (wrongfully) give some licence to "shit on you," which unfortunately tends to stem from a lack of deep understanding and/or empathy concerning who/how/what you are---which, ultimately, is nobody's fucking business. Though an "explanation" may be helpful in some cases, you don't owe that to anyone. If Socionics and IR teaches us anything, it should be that not everyone will "get" us, which is fine; it's quite possible to not fully "get" someone and still treat them like a human being.

    I see a young person who naturally [in born] has "a lot" on their plate and is still discovering themselves and figuring out how to navigate the world, which can be a rough and bumpy endeavor even under the most "ideal" circumstances. Keep being you. Just understand that "you" can/will/should grow and evolve over the course of your lifetime and that's ok > "know better, do better." Some of this "progress" will be beyond your control and some of it, within your control. Accept what you can't control, and change what you can if it suits you to do so--for me, life is a perpetual loop of cost/benefit analysis. Lol All that ultimately matters is whether or not you can stomach whatever costs come with being "you," whoever/whatever/however that manifests in any given moment.

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    I think if you shit on other people, you should expect the same in return.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alonzo View Post
    Well, speaking solely of your personality, based on what you've showcased here, you can be a particular breed of "a lot." Lol And this is coming from someone who can also be "a lot" in a similar manner (read: pugnacious, snarky, head strong, haughty, imperious, opinionated); in some spaces/contexts those traits can serve you well and in others, lead to a pitchfork carrying mob calling for your demise. Lol

    When it comes down to it, I'm a huge proponent of "take it or leave it" > accept me as I am or fuck off. It's just that you must also be willing to accept the consequences and repercussions that come with that way of interfacing with the world. Lots of folks may opt to "leave it," which will place limitations on you. It's up to you to decide how comfortable you are with those limitations. However, inevitably, I believe that you/everyone will be put into a situation where certain self-adjustments may be necessary for your continued mental/spiritual/physical wellbeing.

    I've mentioned before that you remind me a lot of my best friend, who is ILE and essentially believes that he should always be allowed to unabashedly say whatever [provocative, shit-stirring] thing he wants to without negative consequence (directed at himself), all while consciously downplaying and underestimating the ambition of hidden agenda Fe, which can manifest as "please love/accept/admire me despite myself!" Lol ILEs are great for saying what others won't say or can't see (which, led by Ne can be quite "colorful"), especially if it's true according to their Ti--it's one of the ways they expand boundaries and provoke thought, which can lead to understanding, and possibly change and innovation. This, in part, is their contribution to the health of the socion, which means that there is implicit value in their manner of being. But with 2D Fe, those provocations can be a bit rough around the edges and hard for others to readily swallow, which can certainly create a backlash. How NTs "help" the word is rarely appreciated at face value due to some of our "social deficits." Lol [Cue the SFs that help us in this regard]

    In addition to these other already contentious identities, your trans identity may also (wrongfully) give some licence to "shit on you," which unfortunately tends to stem from a lack of deep understanding and/or empathy concerning who/how/what you are---which, ultimately, is nobody's fucking business. Though an "explanation" may be helpful in some cases, you don't owe that to anyone. If Socionics and IR teaches us anything, it should be that not everyone will "get" us, which is fine; it's quite possible to not fully "get" someone and still treat them like a human being.

    I see a young person who naturally [in born] has "a lot" on their plate and is still discovering themselves and figuring out how to navigate the world, which can be a rough and bumpy endeavor even under the most "ideal" circumstances. Keep being you. Just understand that "you" can/will/should grow and evolve over the course of your lifetime and that's ok > "know better, do better." Some of this "progress" will be beyond your control and some of it, within your control. Accept what you can't control, and change what you can if it suits you to do so--for me, life is a perpetual loop of cost/benefit analysis. Lol All that ultimately matters is whether or not you can stomach whatever costs come with being "you," whoever/whatever/however that manifests in any given moment.
    Haha thanks. And yeah that happens a lot where I say what everyone is thinking but won't say themselves lol.
    Also, idk if this speaks anything regarding my type but people compare me to ILE/ENTPs they know a lot.

    About the trans thing, I notice that is a case of people fearing what they don't understand. Like, I mean they call trans people snowflakes but to me they are the true snowflakes - getting all worked up about me deciding to transition which has no benefit on their life whatsoever. I've also met many Si ego types who respond with "oh I'm just getting used to it" or "you can't blame me I need to get used to the pronouns" which to me is just an excuse to be a transphobic piece of shit. I will not apologise to these narrow minded folk for being trans lol.

    I am currently going through that "accept me or fuck off" thing myself right now - I have cut a lot of people out of my life in last few months. Like unless having that relation is vital for me to succeed (For example, a business relation or a good rapport with the university I want to join who won't be transphobic anyway because of the implications it could have on them) then they really can fuck right off, no point being friends with someone who doesn't actually like you imo.

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