Typology Random Thoughts

[Adam Strange]

@Adam Strange, Your ILI friend most likely heard what she told you on the phone. It's good that your concerns are loud and clear in your head, but perceived promiscuous undertones aside, does the proposal sound like a good idea to you? Also, who knows maybe the guy himself is bored.

@kalinoche, he might very well have heard what I said on the phone. I assume he did, whether he did or not. But I have never seen an ILI get jealous when their SO was talking to other men. They just seem to have this idea that it is perfectly normal, maybe even reflects well on them, that their GF's can talk to guys and guys want their GF's. They don't seem to worry, and they don't seem to get jealous. It seems so weird to me, but I guess that would be how you would have to be built if your wife were a very hot, very friendly, very extroverted SEE.

And I DO think her oblique suggestion that I tag along with them through the Northwest would be a great idea. I actually always have fun with them, and I think my presence does something to their relationship dynamic that is for the better, but I haven't figured out exactly how or why this works yet. My ILI buddy can be really negative and I'm not. I'm clearly playing the role here of SEE to his ILI. And when I'm around his ESI wife, I can tone it down a bit and just be LIE. So we all get along pretty well.

However, I don't have a GF at present and haven't had one for many months. This, believe it or not, makes me slightly crazy. They say that LIE's can tell off-color jokes in public, and that's just the tip of the iceberg inside my head. When I'm not getting any, I get significantly more blatant about sex. It's noticeable even to me. And it isn't limited to jokes. I definitely do not want to spend a lot of time around the ESI in this condition, because I'm likely to do or say something that will wreck my relationship with them.
Here is an example. When I first met the ESI-Se artist in a coffee shop, she was dressed in short short cut offs and a thin pink knit top with spaghetti straps and sandals and she is very, very healthy. She has long blond hair and moves like an athletic cat. My immediate reaction was fear, that I was going to say something to her (I was still married but hadn't had sex in four years) that was just going to be over the top, and she'd throw the coffee in my face and call the police. This is just the way it seems to go with me sometimes. I don't know how it happens. I'm not trying to be an ass, but it just comes out wrong.
I don't need that with this couple.

As for the ILI, I'm kind of sure that he IS bored. Or at least, he isn't entirely satisfied in his life. The ESI doesn't give him the kind of attention that an SEE would give him. He talks about his wife sometimes to me and complains that she spends too much money and wants more sex than he's willing to provide. I'm pretty sure an SEE could easily deal with this, maybe even take it as a fun challenge, but the ESI cannot. And this probably leads to some resentment on both their parts.

I actually tested this at the end of our conversation. Every type has a key phrase that they want to hear, and for the ILI, that phrase is "I want you." So I constructed a sentence and said to him, "If I can't figure out this focus problem from the email links you sent to me, I want to call you later, if that's OK."
Well, he was, of course, totally OK with that. His brain had been primed by the magic phrase. And I thereby learned that he was suffering from a dearth of attention.

[Alonzo]

@Alonzo, that is a pretty odd take considering Fi is known for tact and Fe is associated with passionate expression. I would attribute what you are describing to Ne/Si vs Ni/Se.

If I’m discussing something with someone I’m engaging them and exchanging ideas. It’s not a competition. We may not even agree on anything, but we are still talking, and there is an open dialogue. I’d rather have that, than the constant screaming and fighting that leads nowhere.

You’re not necessarily contradicting me–we’re just talking about two different things. If tact is to be defined as “a keen sense of what to do or say in order to maintain good relations with others or avoid offense,” then yes, I’d say that Fi may be more concerned with certain aspects of tactfulness, but, again, my position is that Fe valuers place more immediate emphasis on packaging (the ‘how’) than they do content (the ‘what’); make no mistake, I certainly believe that Fi is more conscious of content, of what is being said (or should not be said) vs. the manner (emotive stylings) in which it is being said. I’m referring to two different things.

Fe is sensitive to and perceptive of the emotional states of others; strong Fe users especially know how to wield this to their advantage, as far as knowing how to manipulate the emotions of others, if they so choose. A key part of this manipulation lies in how a particular emotion is expressed/conveyed towards some end, because the transference of emotional states is almost a language unto itself > the manner in which it is expressed may be the manner in which it is received. If a strong Fe valuer wants to create a somber tone during a funeral reception, then they would generally do so in a somber manner. A strong Fi valuer may read the room and opt to withhold/leave out altogether that one’s deceased father was a philandering, whore monger but a strong Fe valuer may attempt to broach the topic, albeit in a tonally “delicate” manner, perhaps with humor.

And @DarkAngelFireWolf69 I don't disagree with you; I’m not saying that I believe all discussions or arguments should inevitably descend into mutual insult and strife–of course, not; it’s just that I don’t find it utterly terrible or disqualifying when and if it does, especially when authentically defending or asserting one’s deeply held beliefs (Fi). I’m very “stand for something or fall for anything” in that regard. Generally speaking, Fi has a penchant for keeping its true sentiments close to the vest but, at times, those sentiments can manifest so strongly that they bubble over. And in those instances, I’m not put off by someone succumbing to the power of their conviction. Fi is more concerned with the veracity of its own subjective mood, possibly to the detriment of everyone else’s. And, therefore, the manner in which that mood is conveyed matters not, context be damned. But manytimes have I witnessed Fe valuers take issue with how something was communicated (and the situational appropriateness) vs. the actual substance of what was communicated. From my vantage point, whether I use expletives and pejoratively refer to others or not, the merits of my argument are what should be evaluated, first and foremost, rather than placing too much focus on the way in which it was delivered. And, yes, delivery does matter to some degree but it shouldn't be a basis on which to completely disregard someone's argument > "ermahgod, he raised his voice and/or called me a simpleton and so his entire argument is null and void cause...cause...ad hominem!" lol

[Ryan]

@Alonzo I understand what you are saying, and I partially agree with you, but this has not always been my experience.

Logical types in general do not mind heated arguments. I will admit that LIEs in particular do not take things to heart when arguing, but this has not been the case for me with ILIs. In my experience, F types on both sides can't handle the banter. I purposefully avoid serious discussion with some types, if I know I'm going to be misunderstood by them, and I'd have to apologise every single minute for being offensive. So I don't think it's a Fi vs Fe issue. But logical types who are Fe valuers, are more willing to tone it down, because they do appreciate a good atmosphere. Still, there is no excuse to being an asshole, regardless of the sound arguments you presume you are making — not everyone is willing to entertain the thoughts of an immature person. I mean you have to stop at some point and not make excuses for your weak functions. That is not about a difference in values. Any type can be unpleasant and annoying. I know I have been.

I know we are talking about something that happened and you observed, and I don't want to keep circling around it and making general statements, so could you explain what/who are you referring to in your statements? I'd rather be precise in my arguments if I'm going to make them. If you don't think it's appropriate, or you are afraid you may offend someone, or you don't feel like it, that is fine as well.

[Alonzo]

@Alonzo I understand what you are saying, and I partially agree with you, but this has not always been my experience.

Logical types in general do not mind heated arguments. I will admit that LIEs in particular do not take things to heart when arguing, but this has not been the case for me with ILIs. In my experience, F types on both sides can't handle the banter. I purposefully avoid serious discussion with some types, if I know I'm going to be misunderstood by them, and I'd have to apologise every single minute for being offensive. So I don't think it's a Fi vs Fe issue. But logical types who are Fe valuers, are more willing to tone it down, because they do appreciate a good atmosphere. Still, there is no excuse to being an asshole, regardless of the sound arguments you presume you are making — not everyone is willing to entertain the thoughts of an immature person. I mean you have to stop at some point and not make excuses for your weak functions. That is not about a difference in values. Any type can be unpleasant and annoying. I know I have been.

I know we are talking about something that happened and you observed, and I don't want to keep circling around it and making general statements, so could you explain what/who are you referring to in your statements? I'd rather be precise in my arguments if I'm going to make them. If you don't think it's appropriate, or you are afraid you may offend someone, or you don't feel like it, that is fine as well.

So my geneticist tells me that I’m genetically predisposed towards anger and aggression (quickened anger arousal), with a diminished neurological capacity to “brush it off” and “self soothe.” Having lived in my body for a few decades, I heartily concur with that assessment. And though knowledge can be empowering, in that it allows me to form a rationale by which to go forward, take action and affect change, it’s still not a cure all. Years of anger management, yoga, serenity retreats, deep breathing exercises, “medicinal” remedies, kick boxing, getting older, shame, compromised relationships < taken altogether, these things have helped, but are still no cure for my natural, inborn temper. So what the fuck am I supposed to do? Lol Making matters worse, I’m a control freak and so feeling/being out of control emotionally (even if it’s just anger) is a disconcerting, disorienting, unappealing state of affairs.

That being the case, having folks tell me that I’m behaving “immaturely” when my temper flairs (and usually, I don’t even realize it) seems rather unfair, though completely understandable as an “objective” determination. Physiologically speaking, anger can oftentimes serve as an invigorating, energizing, animating force that drives me but it can also be draining and exhausting AF > the rising blood pressure, the increased heart rate, labored breathing, the compulsion to act/move/pace/fidget/swing/pounce, the obsessive ruminating thoughts (directed at the object of my anger) and taking forever to “come down” once agitated. And the fact that this happens every time I’m set off, which is remarkably easy to do...is A LOT...for me AND others. Lol

I have a ridiculous work ethic, and I’m a bit of a perfectionist in that I hold myself to very high standards, which means I don’t believe in doing anything half-assed. Therefore, it’s particularly insulting, frustrating, and honestly a bit demoralizing to be reminded of my inability to “control myself” when I pull out all the stops in trying (but failing) to adequately “control myself,” at times. Lol So again, what the fuck am I supposed to do? No one is sympathetic to “angry people,” biology be damned, and, again, I get it, I see how that’s a hard sell but it doesn’t at all make me less angry to have folks ridicule me for something beyond my control in some respects. I actually enjoy, value and often succeed at being kind, civil, poised, measured, helpful, uplifting, etc... and when set off, I still don't usually intend to hurt people but the road to hell was paved with good intentions. lol Anyway, this is the underlying issue that inspired my initial post.

[ashlesha]

Reading Jung's type stuff at the moment and he's talking about Te types and how an intellectual formula can "assume the essentially religious quality of absoluteness" and become an "intellectual superstition" and I thought of @Adam Strange and socionics (this isn't nice to be honest about, but I say it out of recognition of him in Te materials - and amusement about that - and not out of spite)

[Ryan]

So my geneticist tells me that I’m genetically predisposed towards anger and aggression (quickened anger arousal), with a diminished neurological capacity to “brush it off” and “self soothe.” Having lived in my body for a few decades, I heartily concur with that assessment. And though knowledge can be empowering, in that it allows me to form a rationale by which to go forward, take action and affect change, it’s still not a cure all. Years of anger management, yoga, serenity retreats, deep breathing exercises, “medicinal” remedies, kick boxing, getting older, shame, compromised relationships < taken altogether, these things have helped, but are still no cure for my natural, inborn temper. So what the fuck am I supposed to do? Lol Making matters worse, I’m a control freak and so feeling/being out of control emotionally (even if it’s just anger) is a disconcerting, disorienting, unappealing state of affairs.

That being the case, having folks tell me that I’m behaving “immaturely” when my temper flairs (and usually, I don’t even realize it) seems rather unfair, though completely understandable as an “objective” determination. Physiologically speaking, anger can oftentimes serve as an invigorating, energizing, animating force that drives me but it can also be draining and exhausting AF > the rising blood pressure, the increased heart rate, labored breathing, the compulsion to act/move/pace/fidget/swing/pounce, the obsessive ruminating thoughts (directed at the object of my anger) and taking forever to “come down” once agitated. And the fact that this happens every time I’m set off, which is remarkably easy to do...is A LOT...for me AND others. Lol

I have a ridiculous work ethic, and I’m a bit of a perfectionist in that I hold myself to very high standards, which means I don’t believe in doing anything half-assed. Therefore, it’s particularly insulting, frustrating, and honestly a bit demoralizing to be reminded of my inability to “control myself” when I pull out all the stops in trying (but failing) to adequately “control myself,” at times. Lol So again, what the fuck am I supposed to do? No one is sympathetic to “angry people,” biology be damned, and, again, I get it, I see how that’s a hard sell but it doesn’t at all make me less angry to have folks ridicule me for something beyond my control in some respects. I actually enjoy, value and often succeed at being kind, civil, poised, measured, helpful, uplifting, etc... and when set off, I still don't usually intend to hurt people but the road to hell was paved with good intentions. lol Anyway, this is the underlying issue that inspired my initial post.

Let me just say that I appreciate your honesty. Huge respect.

You know who you remind me of? My dad. The guy was literally my hero growing up. Most hardworking person I ever known. He was not very affectionate, but he was always present and responsible. He was a great father overall, but he was a control freak and had a temper. The thing is, the guy never changed, never improved his relationships with us, as his kids. He couldn't bring himself to open up. He was just an authority figure. That meant that I lived my whole life unable to joke with my dad, relax or get to really know him. When I got into college, I expected more freedom to make my own decisions. I have always had a stable relationship with him. But he just couldn't let go, and things went downhill from there between us. I was old enough to know what is best for me, and I was not going to let him tell me what to do. I respect the guy, but I also had a mind of my own from a very young age. This is something he never noticed in me, because I have always been mindful of his rules and compliant, and he never bothered to really know what I'm like.

He later divorced my mom after 25 years of marriage, in a fit of anger, over something she had no control of. My little brother wrecked his car. He ended up hitting my mom because she wasn't as upset about it, and they had an argument. Of course she went to the police, but she still wanted to stay with him. They got divorced anyway in a month. I think he just felt that he is losing control, and in all honesty their relationship was not healthy at the time. My dad married twice after that, has other children now (albeit still very young), and he pretty much cut off all his relationships with his kids — at least the ones who wanted to keep in touch with him, I didn't.

He invested in the stock market for a while, got out before 2008, somehow. Made a good amount of money. He had at least 5 failed businesses over the years. These are the ones I know of. He had a business with a co-worker of his, and ended up leaving it to his friend while the business was still running, because they couldn't agree on certain stuff. My family is very well off, so my dad, uncles, his nephews and some distant relatives tried to open a huge family business in our hometown. They couldn't agree on anything. My dad wanted to call all the shots. Everyone else was offended because they are putting just as much in the business. My dad is 60+ now. He just retired from his government job. He still has a few small business. He recently approached my brothers, who are in their late twenties now, to come and support his new business. I was consulted by one of my brothers, and I told him what I always tell him. My dad cannot compromise to save his life. He doesn't trust anyone but himself. He has a brilliant mind, but he cannot work with others as equals. I wished them luck because my brother sounded like he wanted to do it regardless of what I said.

I hope my dad tries really hard to get closer to my brothers now that he is retired, and it's not just about business, because he is honestly very lonely. When you are that old, you don't want to be estranged from your own family, especially your older kids who want to be supportive. He doesn't have any friends. He doesn't go out. His brothers are just as old as he is, and they are all busy with their own families. To me, this is a very late stage of ones life to start having a close relationship with his own kids. He is a grandfather already. I personally have given up on having any relationship with him unless he makes amends. I don't want a business partner, I want a father. We are both very cold though, so I don't see that happening.

Even though my dad never smoked or did drugs, still goes to the gym and have always been on a healthy diet, he has high blood pressure, diabetes, had a few heart attacks and has not been in the best shape in recent years. Believe me, you don't want to be in that position. Take care of yourself. That temper of yours will affect your health. It will eat you up. You need to let go. You need to relax. For your own sake. Don't take things or people for granted. People will forgive you so many times and you won't even have to ask, but very few will stay with you if don't try to be a better person.

I did type my dad LIE, in case you were wondering. He has always been very active and cannot sit at home doing nothing for a long time. He doesn't need the extra money. He retired twice now, but simply can't relax. Si PoLR? The first time after retirement he got his masters degree, was in his late 40s at the time, and went back to work in a more prestigious and better paying position. To be fair, he was forced out of his position as he sued the company for something he thought they owed him (apparently they didn't since he lost), he didn't want to retire that early. After the second and final retirement, at 60 years old, he opened another business. I could still see him working through old age.

[Adam Strange]

Reading Jung's type stuff at the moment and he's talking about Te types and how an intellectual formula can "assume the essentially religious quality of absoluteness" and become an "intellectual superstition" and I thought of @Adam Strange and socionics (this isn't nice to be honest about, but I say it out of recognition of him in Te materials - and amusement about that - and not out of spite)

Yep, that's me. And no offense taken.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VF5P7qLaEQ

[Adam Strange]

Let me just say that I appreciate your honesty. Huge respect.

You know who you remind me of? My dad. The guy was literally my hero growing up. Most hardworking person I ever known. He was not very affectionate, but he was always present and responsible. He was a great father overall, but he was a control freak and had a temper. The thing is, the guy never changed, never improved his relationships with us, as his kids. He couldn't bring himself to open up. He was just an authority figure. That meant that I lived my whole life unable to joke with my dad, relax or get to really know him. When I got into college, I expected more freedom to make my own decisions. I have always had a stable relationship with him. But he just couldn't let go, and things went downhill from there between us. I was old enough to know what is best for me, and I was not going to let him tell me what to do. I respect the guy, but I also had a mind of my own from a very young age. This is something he never noticed in me, because I have always been mindful of his rules and compliant, and he never bothered to really know what I'm like.

He later divorced my mom after 25 years of marriage, in a fit of anger, over something she had no control of. My little brother wrecked his car. He ended up hitting my mom because she wasn't as upset about it, and they had an argument. Of course she went to the police, but she still wanted to stay with him. They got divorced anyway in a month. I think he just felt that he is losing control, and in all honesty their relationship was not healthy at the time. My dad married twice after that, has other children now (albeit still very young), and he pretty much cut off all his relationships with his kids — at least the ones who wanted to keep in touch with him, I didn't.

He invested in the stock market for a while, got out before 2008, somehow. Made a good amount of money. He had at least 5 failed businesses over the years. These are the ones I know of. He had a business with a co-worker of his, and ended up leaving it to his friend while the business was still running, because they couldn't agree on certain stuff. My family is very well off, so my dad, uncles, his nephews and some distant relatives tried to open a huge family business in our hometown. They couldn't agree on anything. My dad wanted to call all the shots. Everyone else was offended because they are putting just as much in the business. My dad is 60+ now. He just retired from his government job. He still has a few small business. He recently approached my brothers, who are in their late twenties now, to come and support his new business. I was consulted by one of my brothers, and I told him what I always tell him. My dad cannot compromise to save his life. He doesn't trust anyone but himself. He has a brilliant mind, but he cannot work with others as equals. I wished them luck because my brother sounded like he wanted to do it regardless of what I said.

I hope my dad tries really hard to get closer to my brothers now that he is retired, and it's not just about business, because he is honestly very lonely. When you are that old, you don't want to be estranged from your own family, especially your older kids who want to be supportive. He doesn't have any friends. He doesn't go out. His brothers are just as old as he is, and they are all busy with their own families. To me, this is a very late stage of ones life to start having a close relationship with his own kids. He is a grandfather already. I personally have given up on having any relationship with him unless he makes amends. I don't want a business partner, I want a father. We are both very cold though, so I don't see that happening.

Even though my dad never smoked or did drugs, still goes to the gym and have always been on a healthy diet, he has high blood pressure, diabetes, had a few heart attacks and has not been in the best shape in recent years. Believe me, you don't want to be in that position. Take care of yourself. That temper of yours will affect your health. It will eat you up. You need to let go. You need to relax. For your own sake. Don't take things or people for granted. People will forgive you so many times and you won't even have to ask, but very few will stay with you if don't try to be a better person.

I did type my dad LIE, in case you were wondering. He has always been very active and cannot sit at home doing nothing for a long time. He doesn't need the extra money. He retired twice now, but simply can't relax. Si PoLR? The first time after retirement he got his masters degree, was in his late 40s at the time, and went back to work in a more prestigious and better paying position. To be fair, he was forced out of his position as he sued the company for something he thought they owed him (apparently they didn't since he lost), he didn't want to retire that early. After the second and final retirement, at 60 years old, he opened another business. I could still see him working through old age.

This does sound like most LIE's.

Quite frankly, I think the turning point in my life came when I was broken down by a few DIU's, losing my GF, losing my job, nearly losing my house, having to work for a bastard who hated me, and then getting another chance. That chance took the form of supervising the men in a new company, where they didn't know what a failure I was. I learned to trust them, and they responded well to being trusted and respected, themselves.

Many LIE's fail in life because they can't bring themselves to trust other people. It is almost a given in LIE's, part of our makeup.

Consider this: You have a type that is a pioneer, who trailblazes and looks like they can accomplish absolutely amazing things in life. How can they do that? By having their own vision, and by ignoring the naysayers.

The really hard part lies in keeping the vision part and adding the ability to humbly listen to other people, and to accept their advice.

There is a great business book by Robert Townsend called "Up the Organization" that I read in my twenties. I swear, the author is LIE. In it, Townsend tells the reader how to run a company.
One of the things he said that impressed me most was his policy on the "boss taking a vacation". He said, take a vacation, and choose a different person to take over for you each time, and announce to everyone that whatever your replacement says, goes, even after you return from your vacation. That short statement instantly showed me what to look for in team members, and how much trust and responsibility you need to give them.

[Alonzo]

@COOL AND MANLY Thanks for sharing that.

I certainly see the parallels between your father and myself, and quite honestly, scores of other Te leads I’ve encountered throughout my life (including my own father, who also sounds a lot like yours)–so trust me when I say that I’ve had enough clear examples of what I don’t want to be, when all is said and done, which is why I do earnestly try to better myself.

I have to first acknowledge the unfair advantage I’ve been given over men from our fathers’ generation in that I’m privileged to live in a day and age where modern science can better validate/explain//make sense of who we are and where “new age” healing methods and things like therapy are not as taboo and stigmatized as they once were. Those factors matter.
As a kid, I was once asked if I could imagine what kind of old person I’d be and I distinctly remember saying “the mean kind that lives all alone in the big house on the hill top and that the neighborhood kids fear, hate and rarely see.” lol What child thinks like that?? Even then, I somehow had enough self knowledge to know that the role of loner curmudgeon was something I was willing to take on and wear comfortably. Perhaps it was because people and their strange ways (read: social customs) have always mystified me and though a deficit in many ways, I instead refashioned my “otherness” as both armor and a weapon to keep others at bay > “you can’t reject me if I’ve already rejected you.”

But that kid also had 1D Fi and was almost completely out of touch with what he truly felt and believed he wanted. What I personally desired (Fi) never seemed to factor as much as what objectively worked for everyone else (Te)–that’s where my sense of validation came from. Rational extroverts are beholden to the tribe and selflessly (“blinded” Fi and Ti) fulfilling its needs. It’s just that Fe, by its very nature, is more comforting, appealing, approachable and friendly. Lol Te needs to be useful, albeit in seemingly cold, impersonal, pragmatic/practical ways; nevertheless, that’s our version of “care” and “support” but folks are not inclined to receive it that way because it’s not soft and squishy. I have often encountered many Te leads that feel grossly undervalued, underestimated and misunderstood in this regard. What happens when how you show “love” is not received as true love? Lol IME, that only deepens the sense of isolation and disconnectedness.

Now I’m not trying to justify our behavior, but only to explain how sometimes surface level behaviors don’t always align with what’s going on underneath the hood. Especially early on in my life, I judged my success as a person based solely on how effectively I took care of others’ Te needs/concerns, so that they could actualize their individualized Fi needs on their own (which, in my mind, are none of my business). It wasn’t until being dualized that I became more aware of my own Fi needs, which then made me more interested and comfortable with directly interfacing with the Fi needs of others–thankfully so, because I feel like more of a whole person. Being able to connect/sync up my Fi with my Te allows me to be more “woke” than some of my Te brethren who still walk around blinded to an integral and vital aspect of life. The only thing I’d ask is for a little compassion and understanding for folks like us because it’s not so much that they/we don’t want to connect, it’s more that we don’t know how, especially with limited ass 1D ethics of relations.

[Hermit Soul]

I wonder if animals have a socionics type too.

I encountered this black color stray cat yesterday. The cat was staring at me very intently. Okay, so I switched my directions and walk a different route instead. And then when I turned back my head and look at the cat again, the cat is still staring at me.

I wonder why that black color cat keeps staring at me. Could that cat be my socionics dual?

[ashlesha]

I'm less than a paragraph into Jung's Se base types and these things popped out:

-Extreme realism means an extraordinary sense for objective facts.
-A highly developed reality-sense will give the impression of rationality.

I'm sure I'll continue to notice deviations from the perception of them on the forum that portrays them as dumb brutes and cokeheads but I wanted to share what I saw on the first page.

[flames]

I'm less than a paragraph into Jung's Se base types and these things popped out:

-Extreme realism means an extraordinary sense for objective facts.
-A highly developed reality-sense will give the impression of rationality.

I'm sure I'll continue to notice deviations from the perception of them on the forum that portrays them as dumb brutes and cokeheads but I wanted to share what I saw on the first page.

As a cokehead I take offense!!!!! Not really but I am doing coke this weekend, early birthday celebration.

[flames]

Why do ILEs like EIEs so much?

this seems to be an exception to the ITR rule.

Because they want to be EIEs.

[ashlesha]

As a cokehead I take offense!!!!! Not really but I am doing coke this weekend, early birthday celebration.

I have only done it once because I loved it so much I was like, "yup. I'll get addicted if I ever do this again."

Happy birthday and best wishes for safety and freedom from addiction lol. (And fun. =))

[flames]

I have only done it once because I loved it so much I was like, "yup. I'll get addicted if I ever do this again."

Happy birthday and best wishes for safety and freedom from addiction lol. (And fun. =))

Haha, that’s good to know your limits. It’s always just been a weekend thing so I lucked out in regards to addiction but not so much with another similar drug... But I actually intend for this to be my last bender. Thank you!

[Adam Strange]

Haha, that’s good to know your limits. It’s always just been a weekend thing so I lucked out in regards to addiction but not so much with another similar drug... But I actually intend for this to be my last bender. Thank you!

I remember the last time I did acid. “Yeah, the walls are melting again. Boring.....”

[flames]

I remember the last time I did acid. “Yeah, the walls are melting again. Boring.....”

Yeah, I find the only drug that doesn’t get boring (to me) is weed. Mayyybe meth too, but not sleeping gets old.

YMMV~

[ashlesha]

Saw this image that reminds me of an LII
(And since he's the only LII I know, I associate this quality rightly or wrongly with the type in general. No intimacy, platonic or otherwise, as this excerpt kinda implies, but )

[ashlesha]

I just saw this and remembered shameful TMI stuff but I can blame Ne polr, right?

https://66.media.tumblr.com/e2ae82f4...su5o1_1280.png

[ashlesha]

The previous post made me wonder: are Ni creatives especially good at avoiding ambiguity and alleviating the discomfort it can cause? Why?

[FreelancePoliceman]

I just saw this and remembered shameful TMI stuff but I can blame Ne polr, right?

https://66.media.tumblr.com/e2ae82f4...su5o1_1280.png

What is Ne polr like?

[Adam Strange]

The previous post made me wonder: are Ni creatives especially good at avoiding ambiguity and alleviating the discomfort it can cause? Why?

Personally, I feel that ambiguity is fine for jokes and double-entendres, but it has no place in business or in anything serious.

[ashlesha]

What is Ne polr like?

I don't really feel like I have a polr lol. But as far as the image goes, I was reminded of the on-off nature of my relationship because if I am worried about it potentially going that way, it's the potentiality itself that I dislike, moreso than the reality of it happening, so i just create the latter so I can eliminate the former. Maybe it can manifest that way (it's not that im a drama queen, I promise. Usually.)

[ashlesha]

Transferring buses but im in the middle of Jung's introverted irrational type section and the header reminded me that both my long lasting romantic relationships have been with ips of different types and I was about to maybe find out what draws me to them! Then I started reading and it was about how they're useless and bad at communicating <3
(And access to the inner life and stuff. Not finished yet)

[ashlesha]

Oh, thinking of this, @Tallmo I remember you typed me dcnh creative (if that was too long ago or tentative to stand by, no worries) and I wonder if that's related to an attraction to socionics ip types and I feel like you're the one to ask. Does a correspondence between systems work that way? (My bf is probably d or n, based on unpracticed/undereducated vibes)

[Adam Strange]

Transferring buses but im in the middle of Jung's introverted irrational type section and the header reminded me that both my long lasting romantic relationships have been with ips of different types and I was about to maybe find out what draws me to them! Then I started reading and it was about how they're useless and bad at communicating <3
(And access to the inner life and stuff. Not finished yet)

If you figure out what the attraction is, let me know. I, like you, had a LTR with an SLI and got involved with two IEI’s.
Also, an ESI whom I like also has a thing for SLI’s. Another ESI whom I like is involved with an SLE (Exxp).

This seems to be a little-explored area of Socionics, and I wish I knew what the hell is going on with this.

[ashlesha]

This seems to be a little-explored area of Socionics, and I wish I knew what the hell is going on with this.

What is little explored?

[Tallmo]

Oh, thinking of this, @Tallmo I remember you typed me dcnh creative (if that was too long ago or tentative to stand by, no worries) and I wonder if that's related to an attraction to socionics ip types and I feel like you're the one to ask. Does a correspondence between systems work that way? (My bf is probably d or n, based on unpracticed/undereducated vibes)

yes, you seem like Creative subtype to me. I can't say anything about dcnh + main type relation. But Creatives have the best match with Harmonizing subtype as you might know. Do you think any of your friends could be harmonizing?

[ashlesha]

yes, you seem like Creative subtype to me. I can't say anything about dcnh + main type relation. But Creatives have the best match with Harmonizing subtype as you might know. Do you think any of your friends could be harmonizing?

Thank you. I feel like I'm in water over my head with dcnh and I'm not sure how to type others except for a general vibe of temperament with due consideration given to socionics temperament (ie IP-ish compared to other EPs), which is both incredibly subjective and not inclined toward accuracy, I'm sure. That said, harmonizing seems likely for my closest friend since childhood, an IEE.

[Tallmo]

Thank you. I feel like I'm in water over my head with dcnh and I'm not sure how to type others except for a general vibe of temperament with due consideration given to socionics temperament (ie IP-ish compared to other EPs), which is both incredibly subjective and not inclined toward accuracy, I'm sure. That said, harmonizing seems likely for my closest friend since childhood, an IEE.

There are plenty of examples of C+H relationships so it's easy to study to get a feeling for it. Like John Lennon + Yoko Ono. Have you seen the film Bitter Moon? I think the couple is C-EIE (he) + H-IEI (she). And I have an example of C-ESI in my blog.

[flames]

Gamma introverts should consider a different career than hating people for a living.

[Adam Strange]

What is little explored?

Why do ESI's and LIE's (in three cases, at least) seem to be hooking up with Ixxp's?

Rather than each other, that is?

[ashlesha]

Why do ESI's and LIE's (in three cases, at least) seem to be hooking up with Ixxp's?

Rather than each other, that is?

Guess IPs just got the somethin somethin

[flames]

Guess IPs just got the somethin somethin

I dated two Ip types in my long history of being a whore according to everyone else who didn’t know I was a virgin up until this year. (And still, 90% don’t know, so don’t dox me over it. ) Disastrous relationships doomed from the start, not that I was a fool. I found it very appealing and even sexy that we had the same thoughts on the inside (both IEI) and that it was too easy to do get them to do what I wanted. But while we were identical inside, we were opposites outside, and that’s where the problem with Ej + Ip lies. The first one had more issues with me being controlling and overbearing (was a 9) and the second one was jealous of me having friends and constantly socializing and getting lost in activity (was a 4).

The dynamic reminds me of Mary Elizabeth and Charlie from Perks of Being a Wallflower; LIE + IEI supervision.





I also dated an EIE but we don’t talk about that one...

[ashlesha]

Maybe it's in part because Ive raised kids, but I habitually use phrases like "tummy" or "potty." I was going to say something about Ne/Si and I worried about offending but I'm realizing that I might be typed Ne or Si partly since I use those terms because you people are like that. Anyway I yesterday told IEI boyfriend he needed food in his tummy and he grinned and said, "then I'll go potty!" And that's what made me think somewhat offensively of Ne/Si, but whatever, I'm an ESE and he's an LII, clearly. As much I bitch about being a mindless golddigger, this stereotype is worse, condolences to the affected. Now go make sure you wiped everything.

[Adam Strange]

A few years ago I met an ESI-Se e6 female, probably sp/Sx. Our lives intersect a few times a year, and I generally like her because she’s easy to get along with, she’s practical and direct, earthy and fun. But she’s 43 and never been married (she has never before met an LIE or interacted with one long enough to notice them, although she really likes an ILI she knows) and she doubts doubts doubts. As you would expect from an e6.

I told her that we should spend some time together outside our “business” relationship because we are Duals and we’d make each other’s lives better and easier. Big mistake. Telling her that she might be pre-ordained to be compatible with someone, even if it is just friendship, and in spite of the evidence of her own feelings and subjective experience, completely put her off. It just triggered her doubts even more. Lol.

I’m never mentioning Socionics to a potential date again.

[ashlesha]

Maybe I should make a type thread about someone, but I'm at a loss thinking of non-generic attributes lol
I made a "random thoughts" post about the holiday party that ended up being all about an SEE I like, but come to think I also spent a lot of time with this woman and it didn't stick to me, she didn't stick, poor thing, she's so nice.
I thought of her as (god, sorry SEIs) "generic female of unknown type, must be SEI." But prior to the death of my ESI coworker (rip) they seemed joined at the hip, and she gets along very friendly and blends in with said SEE, so possible intertype relevance.
Random facts that probably mean nothing
- she has to ask for clarification and reminders a lot
- she offers me fruit almost every day. Bad at determining if she's bringing extra, it seems
- she seems (my subjective impression) remarkably uncomplicated
- I can't even tell you introverted or extroverted. Ambiverted.
- she's quick to tease, smile, you know
Gah
Doesn't that seem SEI? I mean, it's a primarily gamma workplace (fuckin banks) so she'd have to work with that, right?

[Adam Strange]

Maybe I should make a type thread about someone, but I'm at a loss thinking of non-generic attributes lol
I made a "random thoughts" post about the holiday party that ended up being all about an SEE I like, but come to think I also spent a lot of time with this woman and it didn't stick to me, she didn't stick, poor thing, she's so nice.
I thought of her as (god, sorry SEIs) "generic female of unknown type, must be SEI." But prior to the death of my ESI coworker (rip) they seemed joined at the hip, and she gets along very friendly and blends in with said SEE, so possible intertype relevance.
Random facts that probably mean nothing
- she has to ask for clarification and reminders a lot
- she offers me fruit almost every day. Bad at determining if she's bringing extra, it seems
- she seems (my subjective impression) remarkably uncomplicated
- I can't even tell you introverted or extroverted. Ambiverted.
- she's quick to tease, smile, you know
Gah
Doesn't that seem SEI? I mean, it's a primarily gamma workplace (fuckin banks) so she'd have to work with that, right?

All of those attributes were shared by the SEE that I was visiting at a lunch place this summer. And she was def SEE. I really liked her. Activity, you know. I wanted to take her to a baseball game. Lol.

[ashlesha]

Right after I wrote that I thought she might be an SEE, just more relaxed than any I've met. Broadens my scope. Still an SEI blind spot.

[valhalla]

Maybe it's in part because Ive raised kids, but I habitually use phrases like "tummy" or "potty." I was going to say something about Ne/Si and I worried about offending but I'm realizing that I might be typed Ne or Si partly since I use those terms because you people are like that. Anyway I yesterday told IEI boyfriend he needed food in his tummy and he grinned and said, "then I'll go potty!" And that's what made me think somewhat offensively of Ne/Si, but whatever, I'm an ESE and he's an LII, clearly. As much I bitch about being a mindless golddigger, this stereotype is worse, condolences to the affected. Now go make sure you wiped everything.

Its not just you. I've noticed this phenomena as well and I've used it to type people.