No we just gaslight others because we consider our self-type to be superior.Originally Posted by Beautiful sky
No you were suspicious of her attempt at being concerned for you. Se Se Se Se se
No we just gaslight others because we consider our self-type to be superior.No you were suspicious of her attempt at being concerned for you. Se Se Se Se se
Ah, so ethical types can do well in school even though they don't innately have a strong and quick understanding, but because they're so eager to please. Gotcha
Anyway, I don't correlate school success with intelligence but I do think it's more strongly related than nose shape or frequency of smiling, or whatever basis is used for typing.
No, I don't think that Sociotype correlates with intelligence.
I'm not sure how I'd quantify intelligence, either, but I think I know it when I see it.
If you are going to use "general" intelligence as an argument you might as well argue against the existence of types. You already said you don't really believe socionics types exist so what is there to argue about? I don't really understand your position. I was going to write more but the site has plenty of articles. If you are interested in the theory, knock yourself out. You have been here longer than me. lol
I don't agree with this btw. It seems like a weird conclusion even by socionics standards.
Se types are clearly superior, since they're beyond good and evil and rectums, but it's not like EIIs can understand that.
(I'm kidding, I'm kidding. Maritsa's problems are all Maritsa's, and no one has ever been able to come to a real consensus on which types are superior.)
How many geniuses do you personally know?
There’s an outspoken ESE in one of my classes. She isn’t, maybe, what many might consider very bright, in the sense that she doesn’t learn concepts quickly or “intuitively”. But she’s quick to ask questions when she doesn’t understand something, and will keep asking questions until she understands. She’s also one of the most involved people in that class. I think she’s admirable, and that she’ll do much better in life than most people “smarter” than her. Maybe you could even consider her attitude a kind of intelligence in itself.
I was frustrated about socionics being correlated with intelligence in various ways, which included otoh
1 seeing "rational" and "irrational" being used to describe the wrong dichotomy because common usage of the terms was being used, and
2 seeing it said that someone must be an F type because of school issues
Both of which could be debated on their own merits but are slightly different than the intelligence issue and in this discussion it took the schooling track.
As far as theory, I was thinking about the definitions of Te and Ti and how they don't correspond to intelligence as a whole (just specific kinds) but decided it wasn't worth the trouble to dig into and post about. Instead I went through the trouble of making this long ass post to say maybe I'll say shit with a theoretical basis later if I feel like it but atm I'd rather play skyrim.
It's probably some conceptual or semantics issue, right? Anyway, see ya
That's hard to say. There is no perfect definition of a genius. However, I do know a number of people whose intelligence I'd rate as being higher than mine (and I'm no genius), and weirdly enough, they are almost all doing very well in their lives.
There are people who are considered to be musical geniuses, and people who are geniuses in other fields, but I don't know them.
For what it's worth, I'd say that I'm really smart in regard to Te related things, but I'm pretty dumb when it comes to anything related to feelings.
Are you really smart if you are dumb as well?
I mean would you even excel outside of your field of study or occupation?
What is your definition of smart? Great at all things? Because I know an SLE who can look at a room once, come back in a few days, and tell you if anything moved. He's great at that. Not so great at some other things.
No. But neither would Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart.
They say if you cannot see the idiot in the room then it is you. But I don't think that's true.
Mozart excelled at putting brightly-colored powder on his wigs and making butt-based jokes, though arguably those were also part of his occupation.
There are plenty of idiot-free rooms in the world, thankfully.
I mean that is the point. How would you rate intelligence? What you are describing is competency. I've seen people ace tests and struggle at applying that knowledge. How many business graduates do you know that are running companies of their own, or doing extremely well financially? It's better to focus on individual traits: this person has a good memory, or they have good verbal skills, good reading and writing, etc. The term "intelligence" is just too broad to be meaningful.
There is a general intelligence.
Yeah, but it's not measured by randoms or school grades, there are specialized tests for that.
It does correlate with those things unless other aspects interfere, which is not often.
I said it correlates, and this paper agrees. There are different degrees of correlation, and that's statistics 101.
Yeah, and mathematics scores are more highly correlated with IQ than art. So when people say, I did well in school/college, I must be a T type, it doesn't make sense. The subjects matter. The tests you take matter.
It's not like F type are retarded. There is a basic level of intelligence that is found in all functional people.
Yes, and some art students and F types are brilliant and some T types are retarded, though I'd venture to say no retarded people do well in actual academic school, and the dumbest type probably is SEE though they're still mostly not actually retarded.
That is the thing though, how dumb are they are really?
Most people have average intelligence and very few can be called geniuses, like 5% max. I'm pretty sure the percentage of T types in a society is larger than that. At a certain point if you are average or above average, you are good enough. There is no point in ranking people beyond that. The tests actually become more useless when you are trying to rank people with higher intelligence, which they tried.
Another interesting trivia: Although one would expect cognitive decline to have major effects on job performance, it seems that there is little to no correlation of health with job performance. With the exception of cognitive-dependent jobs such as air-traffic controller, professional athlete, or other elite jobs, age does not seem to impact one’s job performance. This obviously conflicts with cognitive tests given, so the matter has been researched further. One possible reason for this conclusion is the rare need for a person to perform at their maximum. There is a difference between typical functioning, that is – the normal level of functioning for daily life, and maximal functioning, that is – what cognitive tests observe as our maximum level of functioning. As the maximum cognitive ability that we are able to achieve decreases, it may not actually affect our daily lives, which only require the normal level.
Honestly, if my daily life didn't use more functioning, I would actually die of boredom. I know people who talk like children and who I have to resist the urge to call retarded too and I wish they'd keep up their cognition as well.
Also, geniuses are much much less than 5%. 5% is 1 in 20, and 1 in 20 people is not an Einstein, Beethoven, Hawking, or Curie, not even close. 20 people is like a typical school class, and surely you know more people than that. I think genius is not even scientifically measurable because there's not enough to get a measurement. Genius, like miracles, kind of fails replicability by definition, since it quite literally means a guiding spirit or something superhuman, not an IQ level, and not a euphemism for eccentric or autistic people who still manage to add to society instead of draining it.
I noticed my cognitive abilities have dropped after spending a year in military service. I think keeping your mind active and challenged is necessary to retain that level. My most brilliant years were probably in college.
I think you can probably regain them without much effort as long as you're not actually impaired, but it'll hurt and that's why people lose them to begin with.
Honestly, I'd say the lack of time is the biggest issue. If I had enough free time, I could. I've read 400 books in one year in college. I don't think I could do that anymore. It's insane to me how much you lose if you stop practising for a year. Especially if it's something you have always done. You would think you would never lose that. I regret not putting most of my thoughts in writing. It would have been way easier than to start from scratch or rely on memory. I saw a recent colleague who just returned to work after a 6 years retirement. You would swear he never worked this job in his life. He took a lot of time to get used to it. And he is still not performing like a seasoned veteran.
I think that's an excuse. I think the world just squeezes things out of people and then blames it on "time" and "money." The world wants people worn down so badly, envy and resentment and spite just build up in nearly everyone. I don't even think it's easier for kids, because I remember being a kid and just being tormented by imaginary ideas. I can still be tormented by imaginary ideas now no less than then, and I think that's completely worth it, the same as all the things that inevitably hurt us yet we still fight to the death to be hurt by more just because we're alive and life is worth it. Anyways, do you know why it's so easy for kids to learn languages? Everyone around them is paying attention to them! So what I say is love everyone as much as you possibly can and go run in the dark with monsters.
It seems to me that Fe valuers, in particular, tend not to mind what is said (i.e., the content) so much as how it is said (i.e., the packaging) and I find that to be ridiculous and annoying AF.I don't understand tolerating substantively offensive, noxious and objectionable comments simply because they were said in a "nice" or "civil" manner > as long as one uses "civility" when speaking of their desire and intent to exterminate others, it's all good! lol TF? They were speaking "softly and sweetly" when they said it and so, naturally, they shouldn't be greeted with any form of overt hostility because...the fragile sensibility of their ears would be hurt? And even so, that such a thing should be respected? Seems like fucked up priorities to me.
OR, perhaps a degree of dispassionate "civility" reduces the Fe valuer's chance of experiencing/taking on someone else's heightened emotionality? Which might unduly and, therefore, unfairly, influence them? And so, if they're being viciously yelled at or berated, albeit with sound Te or Fi based judgments/reasoning, the yelling, in and of itself, would distort the Fe valuer's ability to properly take in the argument? If so, that, I can understand even if I still find it to be stifling and irritating.
#offended.
@Alonzo, that is a pretty odd take considering Fi is known for tact and Fe is associated with passionate expression. I would attribute what you are describing to Ne/Si vs Ni/Se.
If I’m discussing something with someone I’m engaging them and exchanging ideas. It’s not a competition. We may not even agree on anything, but we are still talking, and there is an open dialogue. I’d rather have that, than the constant screaming and fighting that leads nowhere.
@Alonzo
Of course Fe-valuers also look at what is being said. But Fe is much more situational, yes. Personally I find mostly it's not worth it to get upset over someone having different opinions from my own, even if they may be offensive. It's about choosing your battles. I guess the difference lies in how I engage in arguments with others. Anyone can resort to yelling and spouting their own, highly subjective opinions - but that's not really what I'm looking for in an argument. What I'm looking for is a way to reach mutual agreement. And if we can't do that, I'll just not bother. Civility is also a great way to get your point across I've found, even to Fi-valuers who may disagree with you.
?
twas a joke"and the dumbest type probably is SEE"
Pfft, we all know only deltas ever get offended.
I'm offended.
Intelligence could be related to how well you get rewarded for being intelligent.
If you were stuck in the wilderness since birth I'm sure you wouldn't find it necessary to get A's in school, since there is no school, just trees.
I have a great ILI friend who is married to an ESI. They live in Montana and I go out to visit them for a week or so almost every year. I like them, and they seem to like to have me around.
I was friends with the ILI for years before he married the ESI-Se. She's a librarian and she and I get along seamlessly. Better, actually, than the ILI and I get along, but I purposefully keep a distance from her out of common respect. I don't go out of my way to talk to her, and I'm always emotionally flat when I do talk to her.
The ILI and I have been traveling around the world for years to see solar eclipses. It's fun and we've found that his trip planning and my ability to get along with strangers anywhere make a good traveling team. The ESI has only gone on one of these outings, and I'm not sure how much she liked it. It was only to Idaho that time.
Anyway, the ILI calls me fairly frequently to discuss astronomy stuff and he did that today. After he and I finished talking, he said "Don't hang up. Beth wants to talk to you." I thought, "What? She never wants to talk to me."
So she gets on the phone and tells me that she and the ILI are planning a trip to Seattle and Portland and how great it is going to be, that they will be going to concerts and events and etc, and when will I be coming out to visit them next? and I think, "Wait a minute. This is a trip that the ILI planned for the two of them. Why is she asking me this?"
I say, neutrally, that I actually was planning on visiting the North West at some point because I liked it and haven't been there in years, and I know an ESI artist in Portland but if I dropped in on her, she might think I'm stalking her, which I'm totally doing, but I don't want her to think that, and Beth says that I wouldn't be stalking her, I'd be with them, and we wouldn't have to sleep in the same hotel room, and now a four-alarm fire bell is going off in my head and I'm thinking that this is really dangerous ground and why is Beth doing this?
So I tell Beth that I'll visit them sometime next year but I don't know when, and go to hang up, but my ILI buddy wants to have a word with me and he gets on the phone and says he'll send me an email about his latest astronomical camera.
What the hell? Is the ESI bored with the ILI? They've been married about eight years. Her whole convo seemed pretty aggressive and fairly lacking in Ni. I wonder if this is normal?
@Adam Strange, Your ILI friend most likely heard what she told you on the phone. It's good that your concerns are loud and clear in your head, but perceived promiscuous undertones aside, does the proposal sound like a good idea to you? Also, who knows maybe the guy himself is bored.
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