which type do you dislike the most?

[lkdhf qkb]

Ok there might have been a misunderstanding. I agree that my posts are not very nuanced.
To answer your post, I perfectly understand that this is just a potential connection. What I mean, is, to take your formulation, that this connection is ... ridiculous shit. What has schizophrenia to do with fucking cognitive functions?
1. Most psychiatric diseases are based on PHYSICAL differences in the brain, like hormones and neuronal pathways. I think it's highly probable that schizophrenic people are different from normal people and that it's not a quantitative difference, but a qualitative one.
2. As said previously, symptoms and illnesses are not the same. You can't take some external behaviours observed on Ne-doms, extrapolate them to unhealthy levels, and then compare that to other external observations of schizophrenic people without understanding how the illness works. And you call that a "rather obvious association" lol
3. Socionics is an empirical model based on normal people. How can you expect it to be a valid explanation for diseases? Honestly, linking schizophrenia and Ne-doms is comparing apples and bananas.

Here we go >
Perhaps your hyper sensitivity is clouding your ability to imagine and make rather obvious associations.

Ad-hominem argument. Out of place and below the belt. I'm done with this discussion.

[Protozoa]

3. Socionics is an empirical model based on normal people. How can you expect it to be a valid explanation for diseases? Honestly, linking schizophrenia and Ne-doms is comparing apples and bananas.

Just for the record,
Socionics is just an abstract representation of thought and action. People that understand this don't think it's a valid explanation for anything, except that. So there's nothing inherently wrong with making associations between psychiatry and socionics, if it's only to represent abstract notions of things.

It could be that someone with extreme Ne is a lot like a person with schizophrenia and there's nothing wrong with making that association because it's not intended as an explanation for schizophrenia, just a possible representation of similar or superficial behavior.

Isn't that okay?

[Alonzo]

Ok there might have been a misunderstanding. I agree that my posts are not very nuanced.
To answer your post, I perfectly understand that this is just a potential connection. What I mean, is, to take your formulation, that this connection is ... ridiculous shit. What has schizophrenia to do with fucking cognitive functions?
1. Most psychiatric diseases are based on PHYSICAL differences in the brain, like hormones and neuronal pathways. I think it's highly probable that schizophrenic people are different from normal people and that it's not a quantitative difference, but a qualitative one.
2. As said previously, symptoms and illnesses are not the same. You can't take some external behaviours observed on Ne-doms, extrapolate them to unhealthy levels, and then compare that to other external observations of schizophrenic people without understanding how the illness works. And you call that a "rather obvious association" lol
3. Socionics is an empirical model based on normal people. How can you expect it to be a valid explanation for diseases? Honestly, linking schizophrenia and Ne-doms is comparing apples and bananas.



Ad-hominem argument. Out of place and below the belt. I'm done with this discussion.

I'm glad you're done with the discussion because you brought nothing to it, anyway, which is why you would have been better off not commenting at all. And, unsurprisingly, you inaccurately invoked the ad hominem fallacy--I was not attacking your character (instead of your argument) but legitimately referring to high D Fi's penchant towards touchiness and hypersensitivity, which, theoretically, could certainly obstruct/limit/reduce/minimize phenomena that negatively impacts it, which then might limit your ability to be objective. Perhaps this is what happens when those with a diminished capacity to differentiate Te related information attempt to do so and fail to understand how that information is to be accurately applied. Again, not an adhominem, just positing theoretically assumptions.

[From a Ni and Vortical Synergistic POV] I'm of the mind that typology systems like MBTI/Socionics/Enneagram are, more or less, essentially attempting to label/categorize/describe the same underlying phenomena--it's just each system may have a set of "flaws," idiosyncrasies, and inconsistencies that obscure Ni's ability to adequately reduce them to something more "whole," comprehensive and inclusive. I tend to believe that there are discernible trends and patterns in many systems that point towards something more correlative, in sync, and less messy/inconsistent, which is why I don't find it inherently unreasonable to make certain associations that connect/unite these trends and patterns. And in so much as Socionics attempts to provide a theoretical model for the human psyche (including its biological under pinnings, i.e., information metabolism), a degree of disorder and abnormality (in that these things are intrinsic to the human experience) must exist within that model/framework. Like I've already pointed out in the posts above concerning LIEs, some Socionists have all but directly labeled (according to widely accepted Te criteria) the extreme/potentially "disordered" manifestations of the sociotypes. More of the wonderful Strat, but this time on IEEs and Delta Quadra >

In this way, for example, in an effort to show herself as an outstanding folk healer, one sweet lady of type IEE, Huxley, a physician's assistant with extensive work experience, experimented with the healing properties of raw potatoes on her children and grandchildren, insisting on them being a universal alternative to all existing medicines. Using raw potatoes as a supposed effective remedy for healing wounds, she forbade her children to treat their cuts and wounds with a disinfectant (a solution of alcohol or iodine) and instead made them hold a tampon filled with grated, raw potatoes to their cuts. Many times she has tried this household "curative" remedy, and the result was always the same: an abscess would start, the child suffered, she urged him to be patient and wait a little longer: "The pain will soon pass and you will feel good!". Only when the inflammation was rampant and the children developed a fever, would she send them to a clinic and allow them to get treated there. (Feverish and sick, they had to sit in reception, wait in line for their turn, then explain themselves before the doctors.) Over the years, she ran such experiments alternately on her children and grandchildren, who lived under the same roof with her for a long time, who were under her constant influence, under her watchful medical supervision, fully trusting and obeying her in all, despite the fact that her tips each time brought them to trouble. Ignoring the real, the actual results of this "therapy", she cheerfully reported about the alleged successes to her friends, telling them about the miraculous properties of the raw potato, and urged them to practice this method, referring to the fact that "for her grandson these potato lotions helped". Expanding her circle friends, she announced and asserted herself as a successful folk medicine healer, and continued to use the people in her household as a reserve for new experiments.

I dunno, sounds pretty "delusional" to me. LOL

The feeling of regret left behind by lost hopes and shattered illusions, the dissatisfaction with the surrounding world, the unwillingness to accept it with its rough and brutal realities, the fears and concerns of one's inability to change the world for the better, become the "other side of the coin" - the negative side effect of the dominating in Delta Quadra aspects (+Te +Fi -Ne -Si) - and create the preconditions for a double-standard approach to life. They form the ideological concepts that allow a person to leave this harsh reality for an alternative transcendental world (dominant traits of "aristocracy" and "judiciousness") and simultaneously keep the person in the real world by fear of getting pushed out due to objective reasons (dominant feature of "objectivism"). These factors create tendencies that allow Delta Quadra (intuitive types) to influence the conditions of formation of relationships in the world, in order to ultimately improve them and bring them to a high level of purity and beauty, by means of which it is intended to bring together the real world with the world of the desired (and imaginary), thereby making the real world more welcoming and comfortable for people of the finest spiritual nature.
Failure to reach this goal by simple and accessible means in the foreseeable short periods of time leads ethical intuitive ("child-like") types of Delta Quadra fall into despair, forcing them to resort to searches for new alternative (and often illusory) conditions for existence, in which (in their opinion) the real world won't be much different from the imagined.

...

Lies for saving illusions, hopes, wishful thinking, creative and life plans - is a widespread phenomenon in Delta Quadra (chiefly among the Delta intuitive types), ​​a manifestation of the complex of "clipped wings", a development of protective measures for it, and also a derivative of the program of achieving full happiness by means of "life with rose-colored glasses". This comes from that very same fear of disappointment in the realities of the everyday world, that gets combined with the fear of getting pushed out of cozy and comfortable existence in an idealistic microcosm into the ruthlessly brutal world of harsh surrounding reality.
One only has to embellish one's reality with impressive fictional events, pulling up the actual towards the desired, and adding to this personal conviction in one's correctness, motivating these actions by good intentions, that the intolerably gray and humdrum reality begins to sparkle with bright colors and new bright future prospects. Then imaginary reality will organically merge with the real one, and fruits of the play of imagination will become fruits of artistic creation - and there's nothing wrong with this. The person who by virtue of inexperience or naivete doesn't distinguish the real from the imagined will be at "fault" himself for this error - he will fall victim of his own or another's deception. In any case, the "creator" of the "image" won't consider himself to be "guilty". His job - is to push the boundaries of the reality in order to amend it with another. And if to be successful in this one has to distort facts, either darken or lighten one's prognoses, toss up some long-term plans, there is also nothing wrong with this (in his opinion), especially if it will help a person achieve a lot in life, to believe in himself and in his own strengths, to pick his path. The "creator" is not worried by the fact that a lie is still a lie - with the help of his interpretation it turns into a convenient tool for modeling a new and better reality for himself and for others, it becomes extensive means of psychological manipulation, which become the more justified by good intentions the more opportunities they open in the framework of this new "imaginary" reality, needed by him to achieve personal plans and goals.

Gee, I wonder if taken to the extreme, what type of disorder this behavior might be implicating? LOL Feel free to stay mad.

[Metamorph]

Ok there might have been a misunderstanding. I agree that my posts are not very nuanced.
To answer your post, I perfectly understand that this is just a potential connection. What I mean, is, to take your formulation, that this connection is ... ridiculous shit. What has schizophrenia to do with fucking cognitive functions?
1. Most psychiatric diseases are based on PHYSICAL differences in the brain, like hormones and neuronal pathways. I think it's highly probable that schizophrenic people are different from normal people and that it's not a quantitative difference, but a qualitative one.
2. As said previously, symptoms and illnesses are not the same. You can't take some external behaviours observed on Ne-doms, extrapolate them to unhealthy levels, and then compare that to other external observations of schizophrenic people without understanding how the illness works. And you call that a "rather obvious association" lol
3. Socionics is an empirical model based on normal people. How can you expect it to be a valid explanation for diseases? Honestly, linking schizophrenia and Ne-doms is comparing apples and bananas.



Ad-hominem argument. Out of place and below the belt. I'm done with this discussion.

Aren't types also based on physical differences? All things involve physical differences, but rarely is that the best description. Personally, I consider schizophrenia a neurological illness and things like oppositional defiance disorder are simply moral problems rather than illnesses of any kind.