Dietary Supplements (for optimal health)

[Socionics Is A Cult]

I've long been concerned that I've not been getting enough of particular vitamins in my diet and also lament that I do not habitually consume the wide range of herbs and spices that are said to be elixirs.

I've started this thread to echo the quacks I have consumed so far, and so that others can offer insights they've found.


According to The Government of my country (that is, the health service), the only vitamin that they recommend everybody takes as a supplement is Vitamin D during the darker part of the year (I don't mean night, unless you are very far north or south). I actually found it hard to find doses sold that only meet the Recommended Daily Allowance and no more. The one I actually bought says it is 2000% of the RDA (although I think it's actually 1000% going on the 8.5 to 10mg figure recommended the NHS). Apparently if you take too much Vitamin D (in one go, or over time), this is very bad for your bones & kidneys (or was it the liver). But it seems that I would be OK to take one every week or two.

.......................

I have been utilising this website: https://cosylab.iiitd.edu.in/spicerx/

for research into herbs and spices, but ideally I would like for similar for all legal over-the-counter compounds that are safe.

The chart there is out of date it seems, based on the downloadable database, and should be more like:

 

Common Name	Scientific Name	NCBI TAX ID	No. of Positive associations		No. of Negative associations
garlic	Allium sativum	4682	1092	Positive	66	Negative
ginkgo	Ginkgo biloba	3311	830	Positive	37	Negative
ginger	Zingiber officinale	94328	795	Positive	3	Negative
turmeric	Curcuma longa	136217	739	Positive	9	Negative
liquorice	Glycyrrhiza glabra	49827	365	Positive	216	Negative
black cumin	Nigella sativa	555479	278	Positive	9	Negative
saffron	Crocus sativus	82528	237	Positive	5	Negative
ceylon cinnmaon	Cinnamomum verum	128608	220	Positive	20	Negative
fenugreek	Trigonella foenum-graecum	78534	188	Positive	17	Negative
safflower	Carthamus tinctorius	4222	182	Positive	10	Negative
chinese cinnamon	Cinnamomum aromaticum	119260	154	Positive	7	Negative
sesame	Sesamum indicum	4182	141	Positive	19	Negative
rosemary	Salvia rosmarinus	39367	132	Positive	7	Negative
peppermint	Mentha x piperita	34256	114	Positive	7	Negative
clove	Syzygium aromaticum	219868	92	Positive	16	Negative
avocado leaf	Persea americana	3435	83	Positive	15	Negative
holy basil	Ocimum tenuiflorum	204149	82	Positive
sunflower	Helianthus annuus	4232	77	Positive	30	Negative
common chamomile	Chamaemelum nobile	99037	76	Positive	7	Negative
evening primrose	Oenothera biennis	3942	70	Positive
garden thyme	Thymus vulgaris	49992	67	Positive	6	Negative
red sorrel	Hibiscus sabdariffa	183260	66	Positive	3	Negative
common oregano	Origanum vulgare	39352	65	Positive
jiaogulan	Gynostemma pentaphyllum	182084	64	Positive
flax	Linum usitatissimum	4006	63	Positive	5	Negative
lemon balm	Melissa officinalis	39338	60	Positive
common lavender	Lavandula angustifolia	39329	59	Positive	1	Negative
bell pepper	Capsicum annuum	4072	57	Positive	12	Negative
borage	Borago officinalis	13363	54	Positive	1	Negative
black pepper	Piper nigrum	13216	50	Positive	4	Negative
celery	Apium graveolens	4045	49	Positive	46	Negative
coriander	Coriandrum sativum	4047	49	Positive	9	Negative
basil	Ocimum basilicum	39350	49	Positive
fennel	Foeniculum vulgare	48038	46	Positive	7	Negative
long pepper	Piper longum	49511	44	Positive
ajowan	Trachyspermum ammi	52570	43	Positive
mastic	Pistacia lentiscus	371726	42	Positive
chilli pepper	Capsicum frutescens	4073	41	Positive	24	Negative
chicory	Cichorium intybus	13427	40	Positive	3	Negative
european barberry	Berberis vulgaris	258209	40	Positive
common purslane	Portulaca oleracea	46147	40	Positive
asafoetida	Ferula assa-foetida	52471	39	Positive
dandelion	Taraxacum officinale	50225	37	Positive	4	Negative
cumin	Cuminum cyminum	52462	37	Positive
curry leaf	Murraya koenigii	159030	36	Positive
absinthium	Artemisia absinthium	72332	33	Positive	5	Negative
lemon grass	Cymbopogon citratus	66014	31	Positive	2	Negative
tanner sumac	Rhus coriaria	298661	30	Positive	5	Negative
westen yarrow	Achillea millefolium	13329	28	Positive	4	Negative
green cardamom	Elettaria cardamomum	105181	28	Positive	3	Negative
guinea pepper	Xylopia aethiopica	1317910	27	Positive
watercress	Nasturtium officinale	65948	26	Positive	15	Negative
nutmeg	Myristica fragrans	51089	26	Positive	6	Negative
german chamomile	Matricaria chamomilla	98504	26	Positive	1	Negative
common sage	Salvia officinalis	38868	26	Positive
fish mint	Houttuynia cordata	16752	26	Positive
aniseed	Pimpinella anisum	271192	25	Positive	4	Negative
spearmint	Mentha spicata	29719	24	Positive
caper	Capparis spinosa	65558	22	Positive	1	Negative
juniper	Juniperus communis	58039	21	Positive	3	Negative
beafsteak plant	Perilla frutescens	48386	21	Positive	1	Negative
star anise	Illicium verum	124778	19	Positive	3	Negative
zedoary	Curcuma zedoaria	136224	18	Positive
kencur	Kaempferia galanga	97750	18	Positive
mugwort	Artemisia vulgaris	4220	17	Positive	57	Negative
marjoram	Origanum majorana	268884	17	Positive
brazilian pepper tree	Schinus terebinthifolia	169191	16	Positive
greater galangal	Alpinia galanga	94327	16	Positive
common rue	Ruta graveolens	37565	15	Positive	8	Negative
wormseed	Dysphania ambrosioides	330163	15	Positive
indian borage	Plectranthus amboinicus	204180	14	Positive	2	Negative
lesser galangal	Alpinia officinarum	199623	14	Positive
achiote	Bixa orellana	66672	13	Positive	6	Negative
chia seed	Salvia hispanica	49212	13	Positive	1	Negative
ashitaba	Angelica keiskei	357850	13	Positive
spikenard	Nardostachys jatamansi	179860	13	Positive
wasabi	Eutrema japonicum	75806	13	Positive
summer savory	Satureja hortensis	49987	13	Positive
lemon verbena	Aloysia triphylla	542672	12	Positive
bay laurel	Laurus nobilis	85223	11	Positive	7	Negative
quinoa	Chenopodium quinoa	63459	11	Positive	7	Negative
parsely	Petroselinum crispum	4043	11	Positive	1	Negative
babasu oil	Attalea speciosa	145700	11	Positive
dill seed	Anethum graveolens	40922	11	Positive
melegueta pepper	Aframomum melegueta	637930	10	Positive
kokum	Garcinia indica	547469	10	Positive
caraway	Carum carvi	48032	9	Positive
catnip	Nepeta cataria	39347	8	Positive	1	Negative
willow herb	Epilobium parviflorum	644182	8	Positive
szechuan pepper	Zanthoxylum piperitum	354529	8	Positive
tarragon	Artemisia dracunculus	72341	8	Positive
water pepper	Persicaria hydropiper	46901	8	Positive
welsh onion	Allium fistulosum	35875	8	Positive
california bay laurel	Umbellularia californica	3438	7	Positive	3	Negative
indian bay	Cinnamomum tamala	397098	7	Positive
quassia	Quassia amara	43725	7	Positive
garlic chives	Allium tuberosum	4683	7	Positive
allspice	Pimenta dioica	375272	6	Positive
corn mint	Mentha arvensis	292239	6	Positive
breadseed poppies	Papaver somniferum	3469	6	Positive
alkanet	Alkanna tinctoria	543564	5	Positive
alligator pepper	Aframomum daniellii	199616	5	Positive
common verbena	Verbena officinalis	79772	5	Positive
clary sage	Salvia sclarea	38869	5	Positive
fireweed	Chamerion angustifolium	13055	5	Positive
horseradish	Armoracia rusticana	3704	5	Positive
water mint	Mentha aquatica	190902	4	Positive
cinnamon myrtle	Backhousia myrtifolia	178105	4	Positive
fingerroot	Uvaria chamae	174970	4	Positive
mexican marigold	Tagetes minuta	169607	4	Positive
boldo	Peumus boldus	63812	4	Positive
alfalfa	Medicago sativa	3879	4	Positive
checkerberry	Gaultheria procumbens	157519	3	Positive	4	Negative
hyssop	Hyssopus officinalis	39324	3	Positive	2	Negative
chive	Allium schoenoprasum	74900	3	Positive	1	Negative
long coriander	Eryngium foetidum	477864	3	Positive
shea butter	Vitellaria paradoxa	292385	3	Positive
spotted orchis	Orchis mascula	59338	3	Positive
sassafras	Sassafras albidum	46945	3	Positive
black mustard	Brassica nigra	3710	2	Positive	2	Negative
musk okra	Abelmoschus moschatus	1170222	2	Positive
pot marjoram	Origanum onites	452416	2	Positive
cubeb pepper	Piper cubeba	405322	2	Positive
oil seed camellia	Camellia oleifera	385388	2	Positive
black cumin	Bunium persicum	377494	2	Positive
persian cow parsley	Heracleum persicum	360621	2	Positive
pandan flower	Pandanus odoratissimus	240453	2	Positive
wild thyme	Thymus serpyllum	204219	2	Positive
indonesian cinnamon	Cinnamomum burmannii	119261	2	Positive
sheep's sorrel	Rumex acetosella	61450	2	Positive
herb bennet	Geum urbanum	57919	2	Positive
lemon myrtle	Backhousia citriodora	39976	2	Positive
white mustard	Sinapis alba	3728	2	Positive
brown mustard	Brassica juncea	3707	2	Positive
mexican oregano	Lippia graveolens	1986359	1	Positive
korarima	Aframomum corrorima	1765291	1	Positive
black cardamom	Amomum subulatum	1008370	1	Positive
pineapple sage	Salvia elegans	888065	1	Positive
saigon cinnamon	Cinnamomum loureiroi	688535	1	Positive
curry plant	Helichrysum italicum	261786	1	Positive
pandan leaf	Pandanus amaryllifolius	260201	1	Positive
red torch ginger	Etlingera elatior	188493	1	Positive
salad burnet	Poterium sanguisorba	137456	1	Positive
linden	Tilia tomentosa	121718	1	Positive
yellow water lily	Nuphar lutea	77113	1	Positive
vanilla	Vanilla planifolia	51239	1	Positive
winter savory	Satureja montana	49988	1	Positive
peruvian pepper	Schinus molle	43851	1	Positive
locoto	Capsicum baccatum	33114	1	Positive
mountain pepper	Tasmannia lanceolata	3420	1	Positive
sago palm	Metroxylon sagu	93297			2	Negative
kawakawa seed	Macropiper excelsum	130373			1	Negative

In red, I've (subjectively) highlighted those that had a particular high ratio of negative assosiations (research reports) compared to the number of positive ones. But each individual will have to do their own reseach to see if the spice/herb is liable to be harmful for them (bearing in mind their individual health issues & also possible conflicts with medicines they take). For example, in my case, I have crossed out ginkgo.

The long and the short of this is that so far, I've determined that it would be good for me to definitely take garlic and tumeric (actually, the deriative active compound curcumin specifically) taking into consideration the diverse health benefits (seemingly without negative implications for my own health) and the cost.

Examine.com (which seems to be a generally reliable website for reviewing such compounds recommends about 10g (or equilavent) of garlic a day - I now 12g simply because of the dose I purchased. This costs about 8 pence a day or 11 cents.

With curcumin, it is very important for it to be activated, otherwise it won't be adequate unless you take a very large dose (research papers generally cite the use of black pepper for this purpose). I have purchased curcumin in the "Meriva" form, which is an alternative method. I take 500mg a day, which costs 27 pence or 35 cents.


Suggested websites (at your own own risk, fingers crossed!):
https://examine.com/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page
https://www.drugs.com/
https://www.webmd.com/drugs/2/index
https://www.reddit.com/r/Supplements/


When I was going further down the list of herbs/spices, I was encountering positive associations/research for health conditions/health preservation etc. that had more positive associations with herbs/spices further up the list. Of course it is possible and likely that multiple selections compliment each other. Also, there are many conditions that are person specific, e.g. diabetes rather likely to be of general interest. Other than Garlic and Turmeric (Curcumin), so far, I have asterisked ginger, cinammon, and black cumin for my further consideration.

[Metamorph]

Do ginkgo if it doesn't cause you any specific problems since that's by far one of the best. Also, the benefits of garlic seem to be exclusively because of the fiber so other sources of similar fiber should be good, and the main benefit seems to be removing heavy metals and other toxins. I made sure to consume a lot of items in the category garlic/apples/celery/onions, caffeine, and taurine when I started seriously oil painting (I had already learned before but not taken it seriously) way back because I felt slightly paranoid about the heavy metals and solvents even though oil painting is one of the safest art mediums once you take common-sense precautions and the average person is exposed to way more toxic metals and solvents than are involved in oil painting to begin with as long as you don't use lead or turpentine. Seriously, don't use lead or turpentine for any purpose at all unless you're already living a life of extreme luxury where you won't track them everywhere. As a side note, please find a substitute for bleach if you can since that's so toxic and not worth cleaning toilets and bathtubs with and makes turpentine look completely nontoxic in comparison, and if you want to bleach fabric in a vat just do it outside.

A lot of these are basically chemically identical regarding active effects, and none of the red ones seem that harmful especially considering some of the black ones. Maybe the red ones are a result of specific pre-made supplements. Licorice can get quite toxic in large amounts, but it's usually completely harmless as a candy and the active ingredient is shikimic acid which is in Tamaflu, though Tamaflu is usually sourced from anise which is a much more concentrated source than licorice and isn't disproportionately negative, never mind anise also having a significantly toxic variant to begin with.

German chamomile is fabulous and I have no idea what the one complaint is besides it made someone sleepy, and lemongrass seems similar though Roman chamomile seems useless and smells relatively bad. I'd recommend juniper, pine, spruce, fir, or another evergreen in some form for terpenes (not the similar terpenoids which are usually volatile since they usually contain an alcohol group and have a significantly different effect) which are basically universal anti-inflammatories and proto sex hormones and so seem to be necessary for physical maturation and then maintaining youthfulness under stress despite being heavily associated with cannabis culture nowadays. Green tea, nontoxic (usually caffeinated) hollies, and yes, hemp and cannabis are also full of terpenes as evergreen plants.

Quinoa and some of these other ones seem too food-like and caloric to make a list of supplements. Some of these can be fairly non-caloric or caloric in different contexts like celery, but quinoa is mostly just a protein last I checked even if it's amazing and comes from an ancient South American flower.

[Metamorph]

While I'm very good at basically herbal medicine, the problem with optimal health is it's not the same for everyone. An expectant mother, a swimmer, and soldier, and the circus fat man won't have the same health standard and shouldn't. I also wouldn't know this stuff if I didn't live in America where the health system seemed somehow generally worse than no treatment at all for all but the most obvious traumas and emergencies. Even in emergencies, they often don't recognize symptoms and they once prescribed me a tranquilizer when I accidentally poisoned myself with solvents, for example. American health care is awful and basically the flip side to American politics along with "evangelical" branches of religion.

[Socionics Is A Cult]

You could try cod liver oil. I have a bottle of Carlson cod liver oil soft gels, says per serving (2 gels): 20% rda of vitamin D (also 10% vit A, and 18% vit E plus EFAs) or if you can stomach the liquid form, then you can adjust dose however you want. Or you could eat more mushrooms. When they're exposed to sunlight they produce vitamin D like our skin does - so it depends on how they've been grown.

Good suggestion.

I've noticed cod liver oil is a frequent suggestion at the Reddit supplements community, and the range of beneficial effects listed at examine.com (on the fish oil page) I think make it a high priority consideration. (I've been hesitant about it in the past because of reading about the bad effects of harmful varieties and of fish oil that has not been stored well - also because I felt I was doing quite well getting it from my normal diet).

[consentingadult]

@Subteigh: you're probably confusing the Vitamin-D dosages: you are speaking of 8.5-10mg (milligrams), but it should probably be 8.5-10μg (micrograms) recommendation, hence the factor 1000 overdose when taking Vitamin D in the milligram range. Over here in Holland the elderly are recommended to take extra Vitamin D on a daily basis of 10-20 micrograms.

I'm currently on 20μg daily on doctors orders, some of my blood values are too high and my Vitamin D level is to low.

[Socionics Is A Cult]

@Subteigh: you're probably confusing the Vitamin-D dosages: you are speaking of 8.5-10mg (milligrams), but it should probably be 8.5-10μg (micrograms) recommendation, hence the factor 1000 overdose when taking Vitamin D in the milligram range. Over here in Holland the elderly are recommended to take extra Vitamin D on a daily basis of 10-20 micrograms.

I'm currently on 20μg daily on doctors orders, some of my blood values are too high and my Vitamin D level is to low.

Ah yes, you're quite right.

[Protozoa]

I take this sometimes, but it's kind of an antidepressant, anti-anxiety thing, depending on how I feel - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I take the women's multivitamin with biotin. Makes my beard softer and I like that.

[Metamorph]

Good suggestion.

I've noticed cod liver oil is a frequent suggestion at the Reddit supplements community, and the range of beneficial effects listed at examine.com (on the fish oil page) I think make it a high priority consideration. (I've been hesitant about it in the past because of reading about the bad effects of harmful varieties and of fish oil that has not been stored well - also because I felt I was doing quite well getting it from my normal diet).

I think cod liver oil is pretty pointless if you're already getting enough omega-3 fatty acids and vitamins. Cod liver oil is just liver fat from a cod. It doesn't have anything amazingly unique in it. It's healthy, but it's basically just a way to sell more cod by branding it as more special than it is, so do it if the price and effort seem worthwhile but don't feel compelled to since it's just fish liver fat.

Animals rarely make non-nutritive substances unlike plants. That makes sense, since plants mostly sit there and need to make substances to ward off their main would-be consumers, while animals can run, hide, and fight off anything that would like to eat them. I've heard of snake venom being extracted and repurposed, scorpion stingers being smoked, COQ10 pills made from jellyfish for old people's memory, and carmine dye in food comes from beetles, but that's about it.

[Adam Strange]

I don't know if this could be considered a dietary supplement for health, but I take a 500 mg capsule of Resveratrol (https://www.solgar.com/all-products/...able-capsules/) every day, and have been doing this for the past ten years.

I started taking Resveratrol when I decided to try to improve my health using pills. I have taken enough recreational drugs to be very sensitive to their effects, so when I tried this stuff, I took one tablet and went out for a walk in the morning to see if I would notice any effects. And I did. I got this feeling like I was a kid again, walking to first grade and just enjoying being in the world. (This is not my normal approach to walks.)
I thought to myself, this stuff is extremely strong, so I'm limiting myself to just one tablet a day. Just to see what happens.
What happened was that the one or two hour-long kick I got from the stuff gradually diminished until, after about ten days, I felt nothing after taking a tablet.

However.....

I'm an alcoholic. I think it is genetic (I'm about half Irish-English-Welsh-Scot and half Czech), because I don't have the same reaction to alcohol that normal people have. Normal people take one drink, maybe two, and they stop because they start to feel weird or sick. Not me. I feel better and better until I pass out.
At the time I stated taking the Resveratrol to improve my health, my alcoholism was "managed" to the degree that I only binge drank on Fridays to the point of passing out, then took the rest of the weekend to recover.
Here is what I felt like. On Mondays, I'd feel fine. Tuesdays, I'd start to feel a weird vibration in my body, which got worse and worse until I drank myself into oblivion on Friday. Getting drunk reset the internal alarm clock to peace-level, and then it started slowly ringing again, louder and louder, until I got drunk again. It was almost as if the alcohol filled in some chemical need my body had, and not drinking made me sicker. I felt I NEEEDED to get drunk. I didn't particularly WANT to, but I NEEDED to.

So every Friday, I'd feel an incredibly strong need to get drunk. Until two weeks after I started taking the Resveratrol, at which point, I realized that I hadn't gotten drunk for two weeks and I didn't seem to NEED to get drunk, much less WANT to get drunk. Weird as hell, but I figured, I'll take it.

And I stopped drinking and never felt the need to drink since then. And I haven't had a drink since then. (Alcohol kills living tissue when it touches it, you know. It is great for killing germs on the kitchen counter and brain cells in your skull. Works equally well in both places.) But I also take Resveratrol every day.

I tried not taking the stuff twice in the past ten years, and both times, after a few days, I'd find myself saying to myself, "I feel like getting drunk". Then I'd take a Resveratrol capsule and the feeling would disappear.

I figure that I was born with a genetic variance for processing certain chemicals, which probably had some survival factor during the last ice age (I also feel best when the temperature is around 55-60 deg F), but is super detrimental when you have access to concentrated alcohol.

My LII sister is also an alcoholic. She set the record in Ohio for the highest blood alcohol level of anyone who is still alive (and she was in a coma for several days from setting that record. She also had a hard time speaking for a couple years.) I told her about Resveratrol and she tried it, but quit after two weeks. I asked her why, and she said it wasn't giving her the kick it did at first. >_<

Anyway, your mileage may vary, but I take Resveratrol for my health. I didn't try it to stop drinking. Instead, the claims promised that it would extend the lives of rodents, make their coats glossy, whiten their teeth and make their dicks hard. I can't speak for the glossy coats, but I did stop drinking.

[ouronis]

The only supplement that has had a noticeable effect on my well-being and day-to-day resilience is CoQ10. I've tried circumin, bitter cherry, b complex, etc. I am honestly surprised that CoQ10 does anything for me given that it's usually given to people 40+.

[Adam Strange]

The only supplement that has had a noticeable effect on my well-being and day-to-day resilience is CoQ10. I've tried circumin, bitter cherry, b complex, etc. I am honestly surprised that CoQ10 does anything for me given that it's usually given to people 40+.

What effects does it have on you?

[ouronis]

What effects does it have on you?

The lows are higher and just generally more stable mood. Plus other things that come from better energy utilization.

[Metamorph]

The lows are higher and just generally more stable mood. Plus other things that come from better energy utilization.

Modern environments give people so much inflammation it's not funny. People who want to sound smart say postmodernity but it's more descriptive to just call it The Glut.

[sbbds]

I don’t like taking pills or capsules so I’ve stopped for a while. If you want to be efficient and just take one thing though, just take a multivitamin that doesn’t contain iron and you’ll be set imo.

Make sure to get enough protein in your diet, and eat cilantro and greens that will chelate toxins and heavy metals out of your body, and you shouldn’t be concerned. Activated charcoal is good for this too.

[BasicallyGod]

supplementation is empirically more often found to be harmful to human heath than helpful.

mislabeling is extremely common in the supplement industry, by the way, so even if a particular supplement you're taking could theoretically work, you can't assume that you're actually getting what's on the tin.

[sbbds]

supplementation is empirically more often found to be harmful to human heath than helpful.

mislabeling is extremely common in the supplement industry, by the way, so even if a particular supplement you're taking could theoretically work, you can't assume that you're actually getting what's on the tin.

Post your empirical sources lol

[ashlesha]

Post brain injury I've been taking bacopa and whatever I can get my hands on that's supposed to help energy (but never does lol), most recently rhodiola. But I don't like worrying about extra pills, so now that I'm feeling 95%, I plan on stopping once the bottles are empty.

(Edit: I'm sort of anticipating comments on what to take for energy, maybe unnecessarily and it's just on my mind anyway, and a nootropic helped for about 2 hours after taking it, for a week or so. But b vitamins don't do shit and I can drink a pot of coffee and then nap cuz my brain has a new energy-resistant superpower, badass)

[Metamorph]

supplementation is empirically more often found to be harmful to human heath than helpful.

mislabeling is extremely common in the supplement industry, by the way, so even if a particular supplement you're taking could theoretically work, you can't assume that you're actually getting what's on the tin.

Most of this thread has been about relatively unprocessed and natural supplements, and the few people taking pills are taking combinations of those that have been combined synergistically or synthetic versions. No one here is taking those sketchy weight loss supplements made with slightly-modified knockoff meth and overdose amounts of amino acids and vitamins, Dick Enlarger 2000, or MegaBrainFire whatever. No one here is even taking 5-hour ENERGY, the official pro-social non-prescription drug of late capitalism and I hope I didn't torture anyone with the thought of it. All of my supplements are either correctly labelled because they have actual FDA approval, are added to labelled foods, or I made them myself, though there may be some degree of human error as there is with anything. It's not hard to identify a pine needle, sweetgum pod, or a witch hazel plant and then crush or extract from it, and it's not hard to find correctly-labelled taurine or guarana or vitamin D, though it's good to be cautious if you think there could be a mix-up. If most people are getting sketchy supplements, most people suck. Supplements are necessary for health even if you don't care about supplements just like food is necessary to live even if you're not a foodie.

[Metamorph]

@Subteigh if you want ginkgo ever, I think ginkgo nuts are a pretty enjoyable way to get it. They contain the same things as ginkgo leaf extract which is why you shouldn't have very many and they're called ginkgo gametophytes which sounds like a food from Rick and Morty and pretty much is since it's the fertilized reproductive structure from a sex-changing living fossil and typologically unique among living plants.

Culinary uses of ginkgo nuts

@sbbds is probably more qualified to talk about ginkgo nuts than I am.

[sbbds]

@Subteigh if you want ginkgo ever, I think ginkgo nuts are a pretty enjoyable way to get it. They contain the same things as ginkgo leaf extract which is why you shouldn't have very many and they're called ginkgo gametophytes which sounds like a food from Rick and Morty and pretty much is since it's the fertilized reproductive structure from a sex-changing living fossil and typologically unique among living plants.

Culinary uses of ginkgo nuts

@sbbds is probably more qualified to talk about ginkgo nuts than I am.

Lol. Nothing to say but they are tastier than supplements.

[Santa Claus]

All we are saying is: give peas a chance.

[Metamorph]

All we are saying is: give peas a chance.

This would be funnier if most of the supplements here weren't way more chemically interesting and potentially harmful. 8/10

[Socionics Is A Cult]

@Subteigh if you want ginkgo ever, I think ginkgo nuts are a pretty enjoyable way to get it. They contain the same things as ginkgo leaf extract which is why you shouldn't have very many and they're called ginkgo gametophytes which sounds like a food from Rick and Morty and pretty much is since it's the fertilized reproductive structure from a sex-changing living fossil and typologically unique among living plants.

Culinary uses of ginkgo nuts

@sbbds is probably more qualified to talk about ginkgo nuts than I am.

I probably won't be able to take ginkgo as it is supposed to clash with epilepsy medicine and/or increase seizures if I recall, which I would rather avoid.

[Tonatiuh]

zink, magnesium and ashwaganda. Probiotics are mainly for digestion if your shit is fine then dont worry about it.

[Socionics Is A Cult]

I guess the main priorities health-wise for general health (that is applicable to most people), beyond getting the essentials into diet, the main concerns are with cancer prevention & with heart health. (Because those are (probably) the two biggest killers).

Improving general well-being is also an important but distinct issue.

(Basically one is concerned with many years in the future, the other with the here and now). The first is more boring and I will probably not fully appreciate what a wise decision I made decades earlier, while the second is more interesting but can be evaluated more immediately about whether my choices are especially beneficial).

[Metamorph]

Have you ever had a potted plant that you moved from one light-source to another and saw it move to get its preferred amount of light near its new light source?

The most important thing is for your body to be able to do the same.

[Socionics Is A Cult]

Have you ever had a potted plant that you moved from one light-source to another and saw it move to get its preferred amount of light near its new light source?

The most important thing is for your body to be able to do the same.

Englishmen don't need sunlight apparently. Although it has been said that only mad dogs and Englishmen go out in the midday sun.

[Eliza Thomason]

This has long been an interest of mine. I have been taking plenty of supplements daily for years. Mostly vitamins, minerals, sometimes cod liver oil, sometimes herbs (I once saw an Indian herbalist and followed his recommendations for 2-3 years, which sometimes included consuming large amounts of dried herbs). For vitamins and supplements, most of those years I worked with someone who uses Applied Kinesiology to tell exactly what my body is needing and how much. I have worked with two of such practitioners. I highly recommend this (or something like I use now) for that because there are SO MANY good things out there that your body can use that it's best to find out what your particular body lacks the most.

My current naturopath uses an electronic bio hand scan to read what my body needs. It really works. I have done that for 6 years now. But recently, as I am working intense and long hours, he suggested I add to my protocol the basic recommendations at richminerals.com. This was new, but so is this need for high energy all day long, every day, and what I am taking from richminerals, plus the other things my last hand scan said I needed last time, is really delivering. The richminerals protocol is expensive, but worth it. And I do believe these supplements are as highly-bioavailable as they say they are, because I saw the difference immediately. [Bioavailablility is a key thing to look for in any supplement]. The first day I took them when the shipment arrived, I wasn't sure if I was just imagining feeling good, but then the feeling of well-being and energy increased steadily everyday. So I am sticking with it.

What I take from richminerals.com, ideally twice a day, but often just once, is an Ultimate Daily Classic tablet, an Ultimate EFA Plus capsule, and a mix of two scoops of Tangy Tangerine and one of Beyond Osteo-Fx in a drink I sip thru the day. The latter I didn't think I needed, because I don't suffer joint pain, but they recommend it for all as a daily for everyone, and I later decided to take their recommendation to add it to my daily mix, because even though I gained a daily feeling of well-being on all the other dailys, I still felt achy and stiff at the end of a long active day on my feet, which was the only joint-related problem I had. So I wondered if adding that would cure that, and tried it, and it did.

My (thrifty SLI) husband did not want to spend money on himself taking the same stuff (from richminerals), and as we had some big expenses to pay off this fall, I did not insist. But he is grunting and groaning with aches and pains at times, and I am going to get him started on the same protocol I am taking after the New Year. Also I have something else in mind for optimum health, so I have something I am selling, and am hoping it does well at auction because I want to start another great thing for my health and energy, having just read a lot on it, which I think is going to be a worthwhile investment. It is Red Light Therapy, and I want to follow the recommendations in Ari Whitten's book.

I am mentioning this because particularly for you, Subteigh, because you mentioned epilepsy, and this is a powerful therapy for that. Whitten's book explains the therapies and has very specific recommendations for how to use the red light therapy effectively at home. Doing it his way, 5 minutes a day can offer huge gains in health and energy. If my auction sale goes well I am hoping very much to start this in January, and hoping the energy from that will help me squeeze in a good cardio and strength training routine (which I always feel I don't have time for, so I am going to use the expected extra energy boost from the red light therapy to pursue that goal next). Also I want my husband to benefit from the therapy, and he won't bulk at five minutes a day. [Like the vitamins, I can always get him to try something (for me) for a couple of weeks, with the option of quitting if he thinks it's a waste of time].

[Socionics Is A Cult]

@Eliza Thomason
There is quite a lot of research about how taking multivitamin pills (that contain most of the essential vitamins) actually increases your chance of early death, so I think I'd be satisfied with simply taking a cod liver oil supplement and perhaps a Vitamin D3 & K2 supplement. If I was to take other supplements, it would probably be specific things like Boron, Choline, and MSM.

I don't really understand why it seems that there doesn't seem to be such a thing as eating too much fruit and veg, while taking multivitamin pills can be harmful.

One thing I've been interested in recently is fruit/veg powders, e.g. spinach, beetroot, garlic, that sort of thing: essentially, fruit and veg that has had the water taken out of it. It's important to get ones that have been prepared in a way that retains the nutrients. I'm not sure yet if I will buy any however.

[Eliza Thomason]

@Eliza Thomason
There is quite a lot of research about how taking multivitamin pills (that contain most of the essential vitamins) actually increases your chance of early death, so I think I'd be satisfied with simply taking a cod liver oil supplement and perhaps a Vitamin D3 & K2 supplement. If I was to take other supplements, it would probably be specific things like Boron, Choline, and MSM.

I don't really understand why it seems that there doesn't seem to be such a thing as eating too much fruit and veg, while taking multivitamin pills can be harmful.

One thing I've been interested in recently is fruit/veg powders, e.g. spinach, beetroot, garlic, that sort of thing: essentially, fruit and veg that has had the water taken out of it. It's important to get ones that have been prepared in a way that retains the nutrients. I'm not sure yet if I will buy any however.

Who pays for the research? Pharmaceutical companies a lot of times. That's just one factor to consider.

Another thing to consider is the bioavailability of the multivitamin you are taking. You pay a bit more for plant based ingredients that are bioavailable, or the processing are supplementary ingredients required for the particular supplement needed to make it bioavailable, and one can find the bioavailability of a product if one looks. So far what I see on drug store shelves doesn't address bioavailability. The money goes into television advertising, and shiny foil labels, not quality ingredients. I see them using the cheapest, not the best ingredients, in order to get the most profit, since the drug stores have a captive audience, as the average person won't look beyond their local drug store. Especially so many "studies" implying that all vitamins are useless (or bad!). Which cannot be true.

But what is the validity of the studies, anyway? That can be looked up, with a little bit of effort, but the vast majority of people will accept the results they are told to accept without checking further to see if the study has any worthwhile validity. I expect the people in the multivitamin studies you mentioned took ONE multivitamin every day for years as if it was a magic pill that should account for everything they might have missed in their diet and/or lifestyle.

My Naturopath says EVERYONE needs to take a multimineral supplement because our soil is so depleted from factory farming that one can't thrive even if one ate only things labeled "organic". And I want to thrive, not just survive. And I think it is possible to thrive, because whenever I have sought natural alternatives for a problem that was supposed to be a "forever" sort of medical problem, I fixed it without pharmaceuticals or over the counters but with vitamins and supplements, and reversals came quickly.

One vitamin cure-all many times is magnesium. Lots of people are deficient, and lots of people get medical care, surgery, or on a lifetime of prescriptions for the very common actual core problem of magnesium deficiency. And it's an easy fix. Like it can work in a day or two.

If you have an ailment, it's a good idea to google the ailment and "natural alternatives" or "supplements", and see what is working for others.

I started my interest in vitamins and supplements before my son was born, when teaching. It was a job that took a LOT of energy and I wanted to still have energy when I got home. Several teachers in my building had begun to go to the same health practitioner who used applied kinesiology to determine what their particular body needed at that particular time, and I realized they ALL looked more alert, relaxed and focused now. Also the one in the school who looked the most old and tired now looked alert and happy. So I went, and it solved my energy problem quickly and thoroughly. I had no intention at that time of changing my lifestyle, or avoiding medical care, but it worked powerfully, and I have sought and found natural alternatives for every need since.

Now I am teaching again and have found that in the years between these two parts of my career they have not just increased the pay but they have piled on the teacher work load and responsibilities to such a degree that I would have never thought it possible. Everyone would have quit! But increase the pay, and constantly and incrementally increase the work load, and people will find a way. And I don't want to be a quitter. I am determined to do well. The new supplements I started this September really did the job. But now I want to also try red light therapy, which some say is even more beneficial that supplements. (When used properly). I am thinking of looking into Written's "Energy Blueprint", as itsounds like solid research, but I hate his super hawking ways).

Fruit and veg - I think you can truly do too much. Lierre Keith's Vegetarian Myth book is a solid case in point. (Here is a short video with her speaking of her experience and learning: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNON5iNf07o. Also I recently (can't remember where) read some very convincing research that too much veg is bad - basically, too much fiber is a big problem. Better to peel the potatoes and fruit like our parents and great grandparents did! They knew something. And oatmeal and whole grains wreck havoc in the intestinal tract. Also the fruitarian fad exposes problems of too much fruit.

Re: fruit/veg powders - I went through a couple jars of Miracle Greens at one point, starting each day with the proscribed amount mixed in juice. I think that is the sort of thing you mentioned. It did noticeably increase my feeling of well-being at the time, and if you feel those things have been missing from your diet you might feel the same good results, too.

[Socionics Is A Cult]

Who pays for the research? Pharmaceutical companies a lot of times. That's just one factor to consider.

Another thing to consider is the bioavailability of the multivitamin you are taking. You pay a bit more for plant based ingredients that are bioavailable, or the processing are supplementary ingredients required for the particular supplement needed to make it bioavailable, and one can find the bioavailability of a product if one looks. So far what I see on drug store shelves doesn't address bioavailability. The money goes into television advertising, and shiny foil labels, not quality ingredients. I see them using the cheapest, not the best ingredients, in order to get the most profit, since the drug stores have a captive audience, as the average person won't look beyond their local drug store. Especially so many "studies" implying that all vitamins are useless (or bad!). Which cannot be true.

But what is the validity of the studies, anyway? That can be looked up, with a little bit of effort, but the vast majority of people will accept the results they are told to accept without checking further to see if the study has any worthwhile validity. I expect the people in the multivitamin studies you mentioned took ONE multivitamin every day for years as if it was a magic pill that should account for everything they might have missed in their diet and/or lifestyle.

My Naturopath says EVERYONE needs to take a multimineral supplement because our soil is so depleted from factory farming that one can't thrive even if one ate only things labeled "organic". And I want to thrive, not just survive. And I think it is possible to thrive, because whenever I have sought natural alternatives for a problem that was supposed to be a "forever" sort of medical problem, I fixed it without pharmaceuticals or over the counters but with vitamins and supplements, and reversals came quickly.

One vitamin cure-all many times is magnesium. Lots of people are deficient, and lots of people get medical care, surgery, or on a lifetime of prescriptions for the very common actual core problem of magnesium deficiency. And it's an easy fix. Like it can work in a day or two.

If you have an ailment, it's a good idea to google the ailment and "natural alternatives" or "supplements", and see what is working for others.

I started my interest in vitamins and supplements before my son was born, when teaching. It was a job that took a LOT of energy and I wanted to still have energy when I got home. Several teachers in my building had begun to go to the same health practitioner who used applied kinesiology to determine what their particular body needed at that particular time, and I realized they ALL looked more alert, relaxed and focused now. Also the one in the school who looked the most old and tired now looked alert and happy. So I went, and it solved my energy problem quickly and thoroughly. I had no intention at that time of changing my lifestyle, or avoiding medical care, but it worked powerfully, and I have sought and found natural alternatives for every need since.

Now I am teaching again and have found that in the years between these two parts of my career they have not just increased the pay but they have piled on the teacher work load and responsibilities to such a degree that I would have never thought it possible. Everyone would have quit! But increase the pay, and constantly and incrementally increase the work load, and people will find a way. And I don't want to be a quitter. I am determined to do well. The new supplements I started this September really did the job. But now I want to also try red light therapy, which some say is even more beneficial that supplements. (When used properly). I am thinking of looking into Written's "Energy Blueprint", as itsounds like solid research, but I hate his super hawking ways).

Fruit and veg - I think you can truly do too much. Lierre Keith's Vegetarian Myth book is a solid case in point. (Here is a short video with her speaking of her experience and learning: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNON5iNf07o. Also I recently (can't remember where) read some very convincing research that too much veg is bad - basically, too much fiber is a big problem. Better to peel the potatoes and fruit like our parents and great grandparents did! They knew something. And oatmeal and whole grains wreck havoc in the intestinal tract. Also the fruitarian fad exposes problems of too much fruit.

Re: fruit/veg powders - I went through a couple jars of Miracle Greens at one point, starting each day with the proscribed amount mixed in juice. I think that is the sort of thing you mentioned. It did noticeably increase my feeling of well-being at the time, and if you feel those things have been missing from your diet you might feel the same good results, too.

With essential vitamins and generic products like garlic, I don't expect the research to be predominantly skewed by pharmaceutical companies. Although I suspect that items used in "traditional medicine" may be heavily pushed by researchers with a "home" bias (for example, ginseng by Koreans). I doubt that producers of garlic or magnesium supplements would be able to afford television ads.

If you look at the vitamin content for most fruit/veg powders - e.g. for Vitamin C, you'll find that a single serving will not even equal the Vitamin C you'd get from a single daily dose of fruit or veg - which means they're an expensive way of selling you something that has little nutritional value. I think Green Vibrance was the closest I found to an exception.

Either something is beneficial or it isn't - "natural alternative" doesn't mean anything.

[Eliza Thomason]

With essential vitamins and generic products like garlic, I don't expect the research to be predominantly skewed by pharmaceutical companies. Although I suspect that items used in "traditional medicine" may be heavily pushed by researchers with a "home" bias (for example, ginseng by Koreans). I doubt that producers of garlic or magnesium supplements would be able to afford television ads.

If you look at the vitamin content for most fruit/veg powders - e.g. for Vitamin C, you'll find that a single serving will not even equal the Vitamin C you'd get from a single daily dose of fruit or veg - which means they're an expensive way of selling you something that has little nutritional value. I think Green Vibrance was the closest I found to an exception.

Either something is beneficial or it isn't - "natural alternative" doesn't mean anything.

You are absolutely right about the garlic and the magnesium research not likely being skewed by pharmaceutical companies. I was thinking more like studies that say vitamins are useless. Recently I purchased Magnesium again for a problem (that was quickly cured with it), and to decide what to order I typed in the search engine there "Magnesium" and "bioavailable" and then looked at results with best customer reviews. Then I read reviews and made a decision based what people said about it's bioavailablility [which if they were using it to treat a chronic problem, they had a valuable testimony], it's potency, and price per doses of the same potency.

I say "natural alternative" because I don't know how else to describe what I do. I've tried many things for many problems that seem serious, or were. Like I was diagnosed by our city's most reputable allergist as having adult onset asthma and being in need of daily cortisone inhaler and other things to heavily manage it. I didn't do those things, but researched and found Buteyko Breathing online, and joined a yahoo support group for it, and practiced it, and got over what was being treated as a lifetime problem practically immediately, and fully in a month or two. That was all free of course, as often finding a cheap way to fix a problem is often needful. Also I mentioned working with an herbalist for a period of time.... So how to lump all these various things together, I don't know. I just label it "natural alternatives" for lack of any other better term I can think of.

Your problem with my word "natural alternative" may have to do with the differing way our different types process information. In my opinion, you process info much more like an INTp than and INFj. My type processes large masses of information without pausing too much at details but is still able to come to good conclusions. Other types take in things more linearly and can get stuck at improper use of a word or phrase, while that would be something I would ignore (like, I would say to myself, "I see what they are getting at though i wouldn't use that term", and I would go on taking in lots more info in order to glean what is key for me from it.

It's interesting that you mention garlic, which is actually the very first thing that got me on the path to "natural alternatives". It was an article I read, which I have shared many times, and can scan and post here if you are interested.

Interesting point about the vitamin C. At the time period I used Miracle Greens I did not research it much; it just seemed like a simple solution to my concern that I might not be getting enough nutrients. But even if the C is deficient in these powders, I wonder about the other amounts? I guess you can just find a pic of the ingredients online and find that out. The fruits and vegs in the powder mix would have other minerals, including trace ones, that are needful. [and speaking of that, make sure you take in plenty of sea salt or mined salt vs. the stripped and processed iodized salt. It's an important thing, and a cheap thing to do for your health].

But really, really good for your diet, as mentioned by the very intelligent Lierre Keith who expresses herself so well in that video link above, is animal fats and organ meats. They are 100x more nutrient rich than any plant food! 100x! My naturopath says to just say not to Vegetarian, because animal foods are the MOST bioavailable foods. I'm not fond of liver and kidney, yuk. But I've been feeling I need to get over that and do what's good for me...

[Sumdumho]

I take 12k iu vitamin D a day and I live in a sunny place. Vitamin D poisoning is definitely a thing, but its pretty hard to accomplish and much less likely than one's vitamin D being critically low. As long as you get blood tests with decent regularity (which come back in the normal range) and feel fine, you probably don't have excess vitamin D in your system. Believe me, if you have vitamin D poisoning you will know. The physical symptoms are extremely severe.

[Socionics Is A Cult]

So far, from my research, for general health, most people should take 10g of garlic, 1g of Cod Liver Oil, and 0.5-1g of activated Curcumin. If they don't take Cod Liver Oil, they should take a Vitamin D3 supplement during darker months (combined with Vitamin K2). I've started taking 1g of panax ginseng once a week because Examine.com mentions its strong anti-cancer properties (perhaps based on limited research). Other compounds of particular note I think are Melatonin and Spirulina (although with Spirulina, it is important to not get it from China because of an increased likelihood of excessive heavy metal content and tampering with the product).

Things I think are also worth looking into (based on Examine.com's analysis so far): Creatine, Hibiscus sabdariffa, Kava, Krill Oil (if you take this, then there is less need to take Cod Live Oil), Nitrate, Rhodiola rosea, and Salacia reticulata.

Of lesser interest: Ashwagandha, Bacopa monnieri, Berberine, Blueberry, Caffeine, Coenzyme 10 (CoQ 10), Echinacea, Feverfew, Gynostemma pentaphyllum, Hesperidin, Inositol, Lavender, Peppermint, Psyllium, Pycnogel, S-Adenosyl methionine, Saffron, Tetradecyl thioacetic acid, and Theanine.

I'm probably going to research herbs/spices/vegetables/fruit more in the future.

[Metamorph]

There are a billion things you can and should take. Koreans pushing ginseng doesn't seem like a huge deal. Use ginseng if you like ginseng and something else if you like something else. Pharmaceutical companies want you to take Advil every day and eat 8 servings of bread. As long as you load up on a variety of herbs, spices, teas/teasans, fruits, vegetables, nuts, and legumes and make sure no plants or fungi have drug interactions and don't overdose you're fine. Very few things on your list are so unique nothing can work in their place. The only really unique ones I can think of are ginkgo, ashwagandha, CoQ10, hibiscus, and chili pepper, and those five aren't necessary in any way even if a lot of people get a lot out of them. Sometimes things which seem really in left-field are similar, like pine and citrus, or cinnamon and chamomile.

I still don't think cod liver oil does anything. https://www.sciencealert.com/omega-3...r-well-behaved


Supposedly olive oil contains the strongest antioxidant. https://www.oliveoiltimes.com/health...t-claims/25030

If extracts deliver a higher dose of hydroxytyrosol without the fat content of olive oil, are they a better alternative for those who want the antioxidant benefit?

Finley: Definitely not! People have evolved eating food and adapted to the quantities of bioactive compounds in food, so given a choice, obtaining nutrients and bioactives through food is always the best choice. We are learning that for many bioactives, it is not a single substance but the complex milieu in food that provides the benefit. An example is that fruits and vegetables are associated with decreased cancer risk, but two large studies that fed isolated beta-carotene (the substance from fruits and vegetables thought to be responsible for the decrease in cancer) actually increased lung cancer.

So, if you just enjoy life and eat a bunch of plants which burn your mouth, that's the main way to get benefits. Anything artificial might cause harm, unless it's been shown to be beneficial.

[consentingadult]

I now occasionally vape CBD weed (weed without the psychoactive THC component) when my muscles are tense. CBD is also available legally over here in the form of drops (for unde the tongue) or capsules. My GF sleeps better on these CBD drops.

A while ago I saw CBD drops for pets on a website. CBD is also known for its anti-inflammatory effects and positive effects on the joints. One of our cats, 15 years old, has Osteoarthritis and sometimes is in pain, for which the vet prescribed a pain reliever, which works, but he cannot have it on a frequent basis. So we decided to give these CBD drops for pets a try, despite lack of scientific evidence (which is the result of lack of research). He's much more mobile now, has an easier time jumping on and off things (he had developed a sort of climbing instead of jumping), and he no longer walks like he has pooped his pants. Perhaps it has bad side effects in the long run, but so far he seems to enjoy better quality of life.

[sbbds]

I’ve been taking fish collagen powder for the last few weeks. My digestion, anxiety/thinking/nerves, and skin have all improved noticeably.

[Socionics Is A Cult]

Cthulhu oil was good, but nothing else I've been taking so far has any obvious effect to me. Maybe I have less chest pain, but that is hard to quantify and associate with any one thing.

I found out yesterday that I have a genotype that affects the balance of Omega-3 and Omega-6 conversion, and a genotype that makes me more likely to be Vitamin D deficient. But seeing as I'm taking Cod Liver Oil and Vitamin D+K pills already, that isn't an issue.

[Metamorph]

Cthulhu oil was good

How are the mutations coming? Lä! Lä!

[Metamorph]

On a more serious note, I recommend pine needle/similar conifer tea to everyone who's not pregnant. (Please be careful not to get yew. A couple of other conifers are also not advisable for regular consumption but at least you'll survive and be OK if you accidentally get a Pfitzer juniper instead of common juniper or something along those lines.)