Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 40 of 68

Thread: Dietary Supplements (for optimal health)

  1. #1
    Landlord of The Dog and Duck Subteigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    TIM
    Enlightened
    Posts
    16,688
    Mentioned
    336 Post(s)
    Tagged
    4 Thread(s)

    Default Dietary Supplements (for optimal health)

    I've long been concerned that I've not been getting enough of particular vitamins in my diet and also lament that I do not habitually consume the wide range of herbs and spices that are said to be elixirs.

    I've started this thread to echo the quacks I have consumed so far, and so that others can offer insights they've found.


    According to The Government of my country (that is, the health service), the only vitamin that they recommend everybody takes as a supplement is Vitamin D during the darker part of the year (I don't mean night, unless you are very far north or south). I actually found it hard to find doses sold that only meet the Recommended Daily Allowance and no more. The one I actually bought says it is 2000% of the RDA (although I think it's actually 1000% going on the 8.5 to 10mg figure recommended the NHS). Apparently if you take too much Vitamin D (in one go, or over time), this is very bad for your bones & kidneys (or was it the liver). But it seems that I would be OK to take one every week or two.

    .......................

    I have been utilising this website: https://cosylab.iiitd.edu.in/spicerx/

    for research into herbs and spices, but ideally I would like for similar for all legal over-the-counter compounds that are safe.

    The chart there is out of date it seems, based on the downloadable database, and should be more like:

     
    Common Name Scientific Name NCBI TAX ID No. of Positive associations No. of Negative associations
    garlic Allium sativum 4682 1092 Positive 66 Negative
    ginkgo Ginkgo biloba 3311 830 Positive 37 Negative
    ginger Zingiber officinale 94328 795 Positive 3 Negative
    turmeric Curcuma longa 136217 739 Positive 9 Negative
    liquorice Glycyrrhiza glabra 49827 365 Positive 216 Negative
    black cumin Nigella sativa 555479 278 Positive 9 Negative
    saffron Crocus sativus 82528 237 Positive 5 Negative
    ceylon cinnmaon Cinnamomum verum 128608 220 Positive 20 Negative
    fenugreek Trigonella foenum-graecum 78534 188 Positive 17 Negative
    safflower Carthamus tinctorius 4222 182 Positive 10 Negative
    chinese cinnamon Cinnamomum aromaticum 119260 154 Positive 7 Negative
    sesame Sesamum indicum 4182 141 Positive 19 Negative
    rosemary Salvia rosmarinus 39367 132 Positive 7 Negative
    peppermint Mentha x piperita 34256 114 Positive 7 Negative
    clove Syzygium aromaticum 219868 92 Positive 16 Negative
    avocado leaf Persea americana 3435 83 Positive 15 Negative
    holy basil Ocimum tenuiflorum 204149 82 Positive
    sunflower Helianthus annuus 4232 77 Positive 30 Negative
    common chamomile Chamaemelum nobile 99037 76 Positive 7 Negative
    evening primrose Oenothera biennis 3942 70 Positive
    garden thyme Thymus vulgaris 49992 67 Positive 6 Negative
    red sorrel Hibiscus sabdariffa 183260 66 Positive 3 Negative
    common oregano Origanum vulgare 39352 65 Positive
    jiaogulan Gynostemma pentaphyllum 182084 64 Positive
    flax Linum usitatissimum 4006 63 Positive 5 Negative
    lemon balm Melissa officinalis 39338 60 Positive
    common lavender Lavandula angustifolia 39329 59 Positive 1 Negative
    bell pepper Capsicum annuum 4072 57 Positive 12 Negative
    borage Borago officinalis 13363 54 Positive 1 Negative
    black pepper Piper nigrum 13216 50 Positive 4 Negative
    celery Apium graveolens 4045 49 Positive 46 Negative
    coriander Coriandrum sativum 4047 49 Positive 9 Negative
    basil Ocimum basilicum 39350 49 Positive
    fennel Foeniculum vulgare 48038 46 Positive 7 Negative
    long pepper Piper longum 49511 44 Positive
    ajowan Trachyspermum ammi 52570 43 Positive
    mastic Pistacia lentiscus 371726 42 Positive
    chilli pepper Capsicum frutescens 4073 41 Positive 24 Negative
    chicory Cichorium intybus 13427 40 Positive 3 Negative
    european barberry Berberis vulgaris 258209 40 Positive
    common purslane Portulaca oleracea 46147 40 Positive
    asafoetida Ferula assa-foetida 52471 39 Positive
    dandelion Taraxacum officinale 50225 37 Positive 4 Negative
    cumin Cuminum cyminum 52462 37 Positive
    curry leaf Murraya koenigii 159030 36 Positive
    absinthium Artemisia absinthium 72332 33 Positive 5 Negative
    lemon grass Cymbopogon citratus 66014 31 Positive 2 Negative
    tanner sumac Rhus coriaria 298661 30 Positive 5 Negative
    westen yarrow Achillea millefolium 13329 28 Positive 4 Negative
    green cardamom Elettaria cardamomum 105181 28 Positive 3 Negative
    guinea pepper Xylopia aethiopica 1317910 27 Positive
    watercress Nasturtium officinale 65948 26 Positive 15 Negative
    nutmeg Myristica fragrans 51089 26 Positive 6 Negative
    german chamomile Matricaria chamomilla 98504 26 Positive 1 Negative
    common sage Salvia officinalis 38868 26 Positive
    fish mint Houttuynia cordata 16752 26 Positive
    aniseed Pimpinella anisum 271192 25 Positive 4 Negative
    spearmint Mentha spicata 29719 24 Positive
    caper Capparis spinosa 65558 22 Positive 1 Negative
    juniper Juniperus communis 58039 21 Positive 3 Negative
    beafsteak plant Perilla frutescens 48386 21 Positive 1 Negative
    star anise Illicium verum 124778 19 Positive 3 Negative
    zedoary Curcuma zedoaria 136224 18 Positive
    kencur Kaempferia galanga 97750 18 Positive
    mugwort Artemisia vulgaris 4220 17 Positive 57 Negative
    marjoram Origanum majorana 268884 17 Positive
    brazilian pepper tree Schinus terebinthifolia 169191 16 Positive
    greater galangal Alpinia galanga 94327 16 Positive
    common rue Ruta graveolens 37565 15 Positive 8 Negative
    wormseed Dysphania ambrosioides 330163 15 Positive
    indian borage Plectranthus amboinicus 204180 14 Positive 2 Negative
    lesser galangal Alpinia officinarum 199623 14 Positive
    achiote Bixa orellana 66672 13 Positive 6 Negative
    chia seed Salvia hispanica 49212 13 Positive 1 Negative
    ashitaba Angelica keiskei 357850 13 Positive
    spikenard Nardostachys jatamansi 179860 13 Positive
    wasabi Eutrema japonicum 75806 13 Positive
    summer savory Satureja hortensis 49987 13 Positive
    lemon verbena Aloysia triphylla 542672 12 Positive
    bay laurel Laurus nobilis 85223 11 Positive 7 Negative
    quinoa Chenopodium quinoa 63459 11 Positive 7 Negative
    parsely Petroselinum crispum 4043 11 Positive 1 Negative
    babasu oil Attalea speciosa 145700 11 Positive
    dill seed Anethum graveolens 40922 11 Positive
    melegueta pepper Aframomum melegueta 637930 10 Positive
    kokum Garcinia indica 547469 10 Positive
    caraway Carum carvi 48032 9 Positive
    catnip Nepeta cataria 39347 8 Positive 1 Negative
    willow herb Epilobium parviflorum 644182 8 Positive
    szechuan pepper Zanthoxylum piperitum 354529 8 Positive
    tarragon Artemisia dracunculus 72341 8 Positive
    water pepper Persicaria hydropiper 46901 8 Positive
    welsh onion Allium fistulosum 35875 8 Positive
    california bay laurel Umbellularia californica 3438 7 Positive 3 Negative
    indian bay Cinnamomum tamala 397098 7 Positive
    quassia Quassia amara 43725 7 Positive
    garlic chives Allium tuberosum 4683 7 Positive
    allspice Pimenta dioica 375272 6 Positive
    corn mint Mentha arvensis 292239 6 Positive
    breadseed poppies Papaver somniferum 3469 6 Positive
    alkanet Alkanna tinctoria 543564 5 Positive
    alligator pepper Aframomum daniellii 199616 5 Positive
    common verbena Verbena officinalis 79772 5 Positive
    clary sage Salvia sclarea 38869 5 Positive
    fireweed Chamerion angustifolium 13055 5 Positive
    horseradish Armoracia rusticana 3704 5 Positive
    water mint Mentha aquatica 190902 4 Positive
    cinnamon myrtle Backhousia myrtifolia 178105 4 Positive
    fingerroot Uvaria chamae 174970 4 Positive
    mexican marigold Tagetes minuta 169607 4 Positive
    boldo Peumus boldus 63812 4 Positive
    alfalfa Medicago sativa 3879 4 Positive
    checkerberry Gaultheria procumbens 157519 3 Positive 4 Negative
    hyssop Hyssopus officinalis 39324 3 Positive 2 Negative
    chive Allium schoenoprasum 74900 3 Positive 1 Negative
    long coriander Eryngium foetidum 477864 3 Positive
    shea butter Vitellaria paradoxa 292385 3 Positive
    spotted orchis Orchis mascula 59338 3 Positive
    sassafras Sassafras albidum 46945 3 Positive
    black mustard Brassica nigra 3710 2 Positive 2 Negative
    musk okra Abelmoschus moschatus 1170222 2 Positive
    pot marjoram Origanum onites 452416 2 Positive
    cubeb pepper Piper cubeba 405322 2 Positive
    oil seed camellia Camellia oleifera 385388 2 Positive
    black cumin Bunium persicum 377494 2 Positive
    persian cow parsley Heracleum persicum 360621 2 Positive
    pandan flower Pandanus odoratissimus 240453 2 Positive
    wild thyme Thymus serpyllum 204219 2 Positive
    indonesian cinnamon Cinnamomum burmannii 119261 2 Positive
    sheep's sorrel Rumex acetosella 61450 2 Positive
    herb bennet Geum urbanum 57919 2 Positive
    lemon myrtle Backhousia citriodora 39976 2 Positive
    white mustard Sinapis alba 3728 2 Positive
    brown mustard Brassica juncea 3707 2 Positive
    mexican oregano Lippia graveolens 1986359 1 Positive
    korarima Aframomum corrorima 1765291 1 Positive
    black cardamom Amomum subulatum 1008370 1 Positive
    pineapple sage Salvia elegans 888065 1 Positive
    saigon cinnamon Cinnamomum loureiroi 688535 1 Positive
    curry plant Helichrysum italicum 261786 1 Positive
    pandan leaf Pandanus amaryllifolius 260201 1 Positive
    red torch ginger Etlingera elatior 188493 1 Positive
    salad burnet Poterium sanguisorba 137456 1 Positive
    linden Tilia tomentosa 121718 1 Positive
    yellow water lily Nuphar lutea 77113 1 Positive
    vanilla Vanilla planifolia 51239 1 Positive
    winter savory Satureja montana 49988 1 Positive
    peruvian pepper Schinus molle 43851 1 Positive
    locoto Capsicum baccatum 33114 1 Positive
    mountain pepper Tasmannia lanceolata 3420 1 Positive
    sago palm Metroxylon sagu 93297 2 Negative
    kawakawa seed Macropiper excelsum 130373 1 Negative


    In red, I've (subjectively) highlighted those that had a particular high ratio of negative assosiations (research reports) compared to the number of positive ones. But each individual will have to do their own reseach to see if the spice/herb is liable to be harmful for them (bearing in mind their individual health issues & also possible conflicts with medicines they take). For example, in my case, I have crossed out ginkgo.

    The long and the short of this is that so far, I've determined that it would be good for me to definitely take garlic and tumeric (actually, the deriative active compound curcumin specifically) taking into consideration the diverse health benefits (seemingly without negative implications for my own health) and the cost.

    Examine.com (which seems to be a generally reliable website for reviewing such compounds recommends about 10g (or equilavent) of garlic a day - I now 12g simply because of the dose I purchased. This costs about 8 pence a day or 11 cents.

    With curcumin, it is very important for it to be activated, otherwise it won't be adequate unless you take a very large dose (research papers generally cite the use of black pepper for this purpose). I have purchased curcumin in the "Meriva" form, which is an alternative method. I take 500mg a day, which costs 27 pence or 35 cents.


    Suggested websites (at your own own risk, fingers crossed!):
    https://examine.com/
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page
    https://www.drugs.com/
    https://www.webmd.com/drugs/2/index
    https://www.reddit.com/r/Supplements/


    When I was going further down the list of herbs/spices, I was encountering positive associations/research for health conditions/health preservation etc. that had more positive associations with herbs/spices further up the list. Of course it is possible and likely that multiple selections compliment each other. Also, there are many conditions that are person specific, e.g. diabetes rather likely to be of general interest. Other than Garlic and Turmeric (Curcumin), so far, I have asterisked ginger, cinammon, and black cumin for my further consideration.
    Last edited by Subteigh; 11-02-2019 at 02:58 PM.

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    Uranus
    Posts
    3,465
    Mentioned
    72 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Do ginkgo if it doesn't cause you any specific problems since that's by far one of the best. Also, the benefits of garlic seem to be exclusively because of the fiber so other sources of similar fiber should be good, and the main benefit seems to be removing heavy metals and other toxins. I made sure to consume a lot of items in the category garlic/apples/celery/onions, caffeine, and taurine when I started seriously oil painting (I had already learned before but not taken it seriously) way back because I felt slightly paranoid about the heavy metals and solvents even though oil painting is one of the safest art mediums once you take common-sense precautions and the average person is exposed to way more toxic metals and solvents than are involved in oil painting to begin with as long as you don't use lead or turpentine. Seriously, don't use lead or turpentine for any purpose at all unless you're already living a life of extreme luxury where you won't track them everywhere. As a side note, please find a substitute for bleach if you can since that's so toxic and not worth cleaning toilets and bathtubs with and makes turpentine look completely nontoxic in comparison, and if you want to bleach fabric in a vat just do it outside.

    A lot of these are basically chemically identical regarding active effects, and none of the red ones seem that harmful especially considering some of the black ones. Maybe the red ones are a result of specific pre-made supplements. Licorice can get quite toxic in large amounts, but it's usually completely harmless as a candy and the active ingredient is shikimic acid which is in Tamaflu, though Tamaflu is usually sourced from anise which is a much more concentrated source than licorice and isn't disproportionately negative, never mind anise also having a significantly toxic variant to begin with.

    German chamomile is fabulous and I have no idea what the one complaint is besides it made someone sleepy, and lemongrass seems similar though Roman chamomile seems useless and smells relatively bad. I'd recommend juniper, pine, spruce, fir, or another evergreen in some form for terpenes (not the similar terpenoids which are usually volatile since they usually contain an alcohol group and have a significantly different effect) which are basically universal anti-inflammatories and proto sex hormones and so seem to be necessary for physical maturation and then maintaining youthfulness under stress despite being heavily associated with cannabis culture nowadays. Green tea, nontoxic (usually caffeinated) hollies, and yes, hemp and cannabis are also full of terpenes as evergreen plants.

    Quinoa and some of these other ones seem too food-like and caloric to make a list of supplements. Some of these can be fairly non-caloric or caloric in different contexts like celery, but quinoa is mostly just a protein last I checked even if it's amazing and comes from an ancient South American flower.

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    Uranus
    Posts
    3,465
    Mentioned
    72 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    While I'm very good at basically herbal medicine, the problem with optimal health is it's not the same for everyone. An expectant mother, a swimmer, and soldier, and the circus fat man won't have the same health standard and shouldn't. I also wouldn't know this stuff if I didn't live in America where the health system seemed somehow generally worse than no treatment at all for all but the most obvious traumas and emergencies. Even in emergencies, they often don't recognize symptoms and they once prescribed me a tranquilizer when I accidentally poisoned myself with solvents, for example. American health care is awful and basically the flip side to American politics along with "evangelical" branches of religion.

  4. #4
    Landlord of The Dog and Duck Subteigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    TIM
    Enlightened
    Posts
    16,688
    Mentioned
    336 Post(s)
    Tagged
    4 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    You could try cod liver oil. I have a bottle of Carlson cod liver oil soft gels, says per serving (2 gels): 20% rda of vitamin D (also 10% vit A, and 18% vit E plus EFAs) or if you can stomach the liquid form, then you can adjust dose however you want. Or you could eat more mushrooms. When they're exposed to sunlight they produce vitamin D like our skin does - so it depends on how they've been grown.
    Good suggestion.

    I've noticed cod liver oil is a frequent suggestion at the Reddit supplements community, and the range of beneficial effects listed at examine.com (on the fish oil page) I think make it a high priority consideration. (I've been hesitant about it in the past because of reading about the bad effects of harmful varieties and of fish oil that has not been stored well - also because I felt I was doing quite well getting it from my normal diet).

  5. #5
    Jesus is the cruel sausage consentingadult's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    3,571
    Mentioned
    99 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    @Subteigh: you're probably confusing the Vitamin-D dosages: you are speaking of 8.5-10mg (milligrams), but it should probably be 8.5-10μg (micrograms) recommendation, hence the factor 1000 overdose when taking Vitamin D in the milligram range. Over here in Holland the elderly are recommended to take extra Vitamin D on a daily basis of 10-20 micrograms.

    I'm currently on 20μg daily on doctors orders, some of my blood values are too high and my Vitamin D level is to low.
    “I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking

  6. #6
    Landlord of The Dog and Duck Subteigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    TIM
    Enlightened
    Posts
    16,688
    Mentioned
    336 Post(s)
    Tagged
    4 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    @Subteigh: you're probably confusing the Vitamin-D dosages: you are speaking of 8.5-10mg (milligrams), but it should probably be 8.5-10μg (micrograms) recommendation, hence the factor 1000 overdose when taking Vitamin D in the milligram range. Over here in Holland the elderly are recommended to take extra Vitamin D on a daily basis of 10-20 micrograms.

    I'm currently on 20μg daily on doctors orders, some of my blood values are too high and my Vitamin D level is to low.
    Ah yes, you're quite right.

  7. #7
    now with Corona Virus Protozoa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Posts
    251
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I take this sometimes, but it's kind of an antidepressant, anti-anxiety thing, depending on how I feel - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    I take the women's multivitamin with biotin. Makes my beard softer and I like that.
    previously Megadoodoo

  8. #8

    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    Uranus
    Posts
    3,465
    Mentioned
    72 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    Good suggestion.

    I've noticed cod liver oil is a frequent suggestion at the Reddit supplements community, and the range of beneficial effects listed at examine.com (on the fish oil page) I think make it a high priority consideration. (I've been hesitant about it in the past because of reading about the bad effects of harmful varieties and of fish oil that has not been stored well - also because I felt I was doing quite well getting it from my normal diet).
    I think cod liver oil is pretty pointless if you're already getting enough omega-3 fatty acids and vitamins. Cod liver oil is just liver fat from a cod. It doesn't have anything amazingly unique in it. It's healthy, but it's basically just a way to sell more cod by branding it as more special than it is, so do it if the price and effort seem worthwhile but don't feel compelled to since it's just fish liver fat.

    Animals rarely make non-nutritive substances unlike plants. That makes sense, since plants mostly sit there and need to make substances to ward off their main would-be consumers, while animals can run, hide, and fight off anything that would like to eat them. I've heard of snake venom being extracted and repurposed, scorpion stingers being smoked, COQ10 pills made from jellyfish for old people's memory, and carmine dye in food comes from beetles, but that's about it.

  9. #9
    Adam Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Midwest, USA
    TIM
    ENTJ-1Te 8w7 sx/so
    Posts
    8,165
    Mentioned
    908 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    I don't know if this could be considered a dietary supplement for health, but I take a 500 mg capsule of Resveratrol (https://www.solgar.com/all-products/...able-capsules/) every day, and have been doing this for the past ten years.

    I started taking Resveratrol when I decided to try to improve my health using pills. I have taken enough recreational drugs to be very sensitive to their effects, so when I tried this stuff, I took one tablet and went out for a walk in the morning to see if I would notice any effects. And I did. I got this feeling like I was a kid again, walking to first grade and just enjoying being in the world. (This is not my normal approach to walks.)
    I thought to myself, this stuff is extremely strong, so I'm limiting myself to just one tablet a day. Just to see what happens.
    What happened was that the one or two hour-long kick I got from the stuff gradually diminished until, after about ten days, I felt nothing after taking a tablet.

    However.....

    I'm an alcoholic. I think it is genetic (I'm about half Irish-English-Welsh-Scot and half Czech), because I don't have the same reaction to alcohol that normal people have. Normal people take one drink, maybe two, and they stop because they start to feel weird or sick. Not me. I feel better and better until I pass out.
    At the time I stated taking the Resveratrol to improve my health, my alcoholism was "managed" to the degree that I only binge drank on Fridays to the point of passing out, then took the rest of the weekend to recover.
    Here is what I felt like. On Mondays, I'd feel fine. Tuesdays, I'd start to feel a weird vibration in my body, which got worse and worse until I drank myself into oblivion on Friday. Getting drunk reset the internal alarm clock to peace-level, and then it started slowly ringing again, louder and louder, until I got drunk again. It was almost as if the alcohol filled in some chemical need my body had, and not drinking made me sicker. I felt I NEEEDED to get drunk. I didn't particularly WANT to, but I NEEDED to.

    So every Friday, I'd feel an incredibly strong need to get drunk. Until two weeks after I started taking the Resveratrol, at which point, I realized that I hadn't gotten drunk for two weeks and I didn't seem to NEED to get drunk, much less WANT to get drunk. Weird as hell, but I figured, I'll take it.

    And I stopped drinking and never felt the need to drink since then. And I haven't had a drink since then. (Alcohol kills living tissue when it touches it, you know. It is great for killing germs on the kitchen counter and brain cells in your skull. Works equally well in both places.) But I also take Resveratrol every day.

    I tried not taking the stuff twice in the past ten years, and both times, after a few days, I'd find myself saying to myself, "I feel like getting drunk". Then I'd take a Resveratrol capsule and the feeling would disappear.

    I figure that I was born with a genetic variance for processing certain chemicals, which probably had some survival factor during the last ice age (I also feel best when the temperature is around 55-60 deg F), but is super detrimental when you have access to concentrated alcohol.

    My LII sister is also an alcoholic. She set the record in Ohio for the highest blood alcohol level of anyone who is still alive (and she was in a coma for several days from setting that record. She also had a hard time speaking for a couple years.) I told her about Resveratrol and she tried it, but quit after two weeks. I asked her why, and she said it wasn't giving her the kick it did at first. >_<

    Anyway, your mileage may vary, but I take Resveratrol for my health. I didn't try it to stop drinking. Instead, the claims promised that it would extend the lives of rodents, make their coats glossy, whiten their teeth and make their dicks hard. I can't speak for the glossy coats, but I did stop drinking.

  10. #10
    ouronis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    TIM
    ref to ptr to self
    Posts
    1,657
    Mentioned
    72 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    The only supplement that has had a noticeable effect on my well-being and day-to-day resilience is CoQ10. I've tried circumin, bitter cherry, b complex, etc. I am honestly surprised that CoQ10 does anything for me given that it's usually given to people 40+.

  11. #11
    Adam Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Midwest, USA
    TIM
    ENTJ-1Te 8w7 sx/so
    Posts
    8,165
    Mentioned
    908 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ouronis View Post
    The only supplement that has had a noticeable effect on my well-being and day-to-day resilience is CoQ10. I've tried circumin, bitter cherry, b complex, etc. I am honestly surprised that CoQ10 does anything for me given that it's usually given to people 40+.

    What effects does it have on you?

  12. #12
    ouronis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    TIM
    ref to ptr to self
    Posts
    1,657
    Mentioned
    72 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    What effects does it have on you?
    The lows are higher and just generally more stable mood. Plus other things that come from better energy utilization.

  13. #13

    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    Uranus
    Posts
    3,465
    Mentioned
    72 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ouronis View Post
    The lows are higher and just generally more stable mood. Plus other things that come from better energy utilization.
    Modern environments give people so much inflammation it's not funny. People who want to sound smart say postmodernity but it's more descriptive to just call it The Glut.

  14. #14
    f.k.a Oprah sbbds's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    TIM
    SLE
    Posts
    3,819
    Mentioned
    269 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I don’t like taking pills or capsules so I’ve stopped for a while. If you want to be efficient and just take one thing though, just take a multivitamin that doesn’t contain iron and you’ll be set imo.

    Make sure to get enough protein in your diet, and eat cilantro and greens that will chelate toxins and heavy metals out of your body, and you shouldn’t be concerned. Activated charcoal is good for this too.
    Last edited by sbbds; 11-04-2019 at 07:23 AM.

  15. #15
    do we proceed ItsHimTheAnomaly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    TIM
    yes
    Posts
    41
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    supplementation is empirically more often found to be harmful to human heath than helpful.

    mislabeling is extremely common in the supplement industry, by the way, so even if a particular supplement you're taking could theoretically work, you can't assume that you're actually getting what's on the tin.
    anomalously generic INT blob


  16. #16
    f.k.a Oprah sbbds's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    TIM
    SLE
    Posts
    3,819
    Mentioned
    269 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ItsHimTheAnomaly View Post
    supplementation is empirically more often found to be harmful to human heath than helpful.

    mislabeling is extremely common in the supplement industry, by the way, so even if a particular supplement you're taking could theoretically work, you can't assume that you're actually getting what's on the tin.
    Post your empirical sources lol

  17. #17
    Socionics is a spook ashlesha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    15,079
    Mentioned
    847 Post(s)
    Tagged
    4 Thread(s)

    Default

    Post brain injury I've been taking bacopa and whatever I can get my hands on that's supposed to help energy (but never does lol), most recently rhodiola. But I don't like worrying about extra pills, so now that I'm feeling 95%, I plan on stopping once the bottles are empty.

    (Edit: I'm sort of anticipating comments on what to take for energy, maybe unnecessarily and it's just on my mind anyway, and a nootropic helped for about 2 hours after taking it, for a week or so. But b vitamins don't do shit and I can drink a pot of coffee and then nap cuz my brain has a new energy-resistant superpower, badass)
    Last edited by ashlesha; 11-04-2019 at 11:45 AM.

  18. #18

    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    Uranus
    Posts
    3,465
    Mentioned
    72 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ItsHimTheAnomaly View Post
    supplementation is empirically more often found to be harmful to human heath than helpful.

    mislabeling is extremely common in the supplement industry, by the way, so even if a particular supplement you're taking could theoretically work, you can't assume that you're actually getting what's on the tin.
    Most of this thread has been about relatively unprocessed and natural supplements, and the few people taking pills are taking combinations of those that have been combined synergistically or synthetic versions. No one here is taking those sketchy weight loss supplements made with slightly-modified knockoff meth and overdose amounts of amino acids and vitamins, Dick Enlarger 2000, or MegaBrainFire whatever. No one here is even taking 5-hour ENERGY, the official pro-social non-prescription drug of late capitalism and I hope I didn't torture anyone with the thought of it. All of my supplements are either correctly labelled because they have actual FDA approval, are added to labelled foods, or I made them myself, though there may be some degree of human error as there is with anything. It's not hard to identify a pine needle, sweetgum pod, or a witch hazel plant and then crush or extract from it, and it's not hard to find correctly-labelled taurine or guarana or vitamin D, though it's good to be cautious if you think there could be a mix-up. If most people are getting sketchy supplements, most people suck. Supplements are necessary for health even if you don't care about supplements just like food is necessary to live even if you're not a foodie.
    WARNING: SUM OF DIS CHAPTA IS XTREMLY SCRAY. VIOWER EXCRETION ADVISD

  19. #19

    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    Uranus
    Posts
    3,465
    Mentioned
    72 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    @Subteigh if you want ginkgo ever, I think ginkgo nuts are a pretty enjoyable way to get it. They contain the same things as ginkgo leaf extract which is why you shouldn't have very many and they're called ginkgo gametophytes which sounds like a food from Rick and Morty and pretty much is since it's the fertilized reproductive structure from a sex-changing living fossil and typologically unique among living plants.

    Culinary uses of ginkgo nuts

    @sbbds is probably more qualified to talk about ginkgo nuts than I am.
    WARNING: SUM OF DIS CHAPTA IS XTREMLY SCRAY. VIOWER EXCRETION ADVISD

  20. #20
    f.k.a Oprah sbbds's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    TIM
    SLE
    Posts
    3,819
    Mentioned
    269 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by coeruleum View Post
    @Subteigh if you want ginkgo ever, I think ginkgo nuts are a pretty enjoyable way to get it. They contain the same things as ginkgo leaf extract which is why you shouldn't have very many and they're called ginkgo gametophytes which sounds like a food from Rick and Morty and pretty much is since it's the fertilized reproductive structure from a sex-changing living fossil and typologically unique among living plants.

    Culinary uses of ginkgo nuts

    @sbbds is probably more qualified to talk about ginkgo nuts than I am.
    Lol. Nothing to say but they are tastier than supplements.

  21. #21
    Ho Ho Ho! Santa Claus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    North Pole
    Posts
    81
    Mentioned
    25 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    All we are saying is: give peas a chance.

  22. #22

    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    Uranus
    Posts
    3,465
    Mentioned
    72 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Santa Claus View Post
    All we are saying is: give peas a chance.
    This would be funnier if most of the supplements here weren't way more chemically interesting and potentially harmful. 8/10
    WARNING: SUM OF DIS CHAPTA IS XTREMLY SCRAY. VIOWER EXCRETION ADVISD

  23. #23
    Landlord of The Dog and Duck Subteigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    TIM
    Enlightened
    Posts
    16,688
    Mentioned
    336 Post(s)
    Tagged
    4 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by coeruleum View Post
    @Subteigh if you want ginkgo ever, I think ginkgo nuts are a pretty enjoyable way to get it. They contain the same things as ginkgo leaf extract which is why you shouldn't have very many and they're called ginkgo gametophytes which sounds like a food from Rick and Morty and pretty much is since it's the fertilized reproductive structure from a sex-changing living fossil and typologically unique among living plants.

    Culinary uses of ginkgo nuts

    @sbbds is probably more qualified to talk about ginkgo nuts than I am.
    I probably won't be able to take ginkgo as it is supposed to clash with epilepsy medicine and/or increase seizures if I recall, which I would rather avoid.

  24. #24
    2real Remiel's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Can'-Ka No Rey
    TIM
    not like you
    Posts
    2,116
    Mentioned
    81 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    zink, magnesium and ashwaganda. Probiotics are mainly for digestion if your shit is fine then dont worry about it.
    "The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools." ―Thucydides



  25. #25
    Landlord of The Dog and Duck Subteigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    TIM
    Enlightened
    Posts
    16,688
    Mentioned
    336 Post(s)
    Tagged
    4 Thread(s)

    Default

    I guess the main priorities health-wise for general health (that is applicable to most people), beyond getting the essentials into diet, the main concerns are with cancer prevention & with heart health. (Because those are (probably) the two biggest killers).

    Improving general well-being is also an important but distinct issue.

    (Basically one is concerned with many years in the future, the other with the here and now). The first is more boring and I will probably not fully appreciate what a wise decision I made decades earlier, while the second is more interesting but can be evaluated more immediately about whether my choices are especially beneficial).

  26. #26

    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    Uranus
    Posts
    3,465
    Mentioned
    72 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Have you ever had a potted plant that you moved from one light-source to another and saw it move to get its preferred amount of light near its new light source?

    The most important thing is for your body to be able to do the same.
    WARNING: SUM OF DIS CHAPTA IS XTREMLY SCRAY. VIOWER EXCRETION ADVISD

  27. #27
    Landlord of The Dog and Duck Subteigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    TIM
    Enlightened
    Posts
    16,688
    Mentioned
    336 Post(s)
    Tagged
    4 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by coeruleum View Post
    Have you ever had a potted plant that you moved from one light-source to another and saw it move to get its preferred amount of light near its new light source?

    The most important thing is for your body to be able to do the same.
    Englishmen don't need sunlight apparently. Although it has been said that only mad dogs and Englishmen go out in the midday sun.

  28. #28
    Seriously Judicious Emotivist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    eastern U.S.
    TIM
    ENFp, IEE
    Posts
    2,760
    Mentioned
    265 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    This has long been an interest of mine. I have been taking plenty of supplements daily for years. Mostly vitamins, minerals, sometimes cod liver oil, sometimes herbs (I once saw an Indian herbalist and followed his recommendations for 2-3 years, which sometimes included consuming large amounts of dried herbs). For vitamins and supplements, most of those years I worked with someone who uses Applied Kinesiology to tell exactly what my body is needing and how much. I have worked with two of such practitioners. I highly recommend this (or something like I use now) for that because there are SO MANY good things out there that your body can use that it's best to find out what your particular body lacks the most.

    My current naturopath uses an electronic bio hand scan to read what my body needs. It really works. I have done that for 6 years now. But recently, as I am working intense and long hours, he suggested I add to my protocol the basic recommendations at richminerals.com. This was new, but so is this need for high energy all day long, every day, and what I am taking from richminerals, plus the other things my last hand scan said I needed last time, is really delivering. The richminerals protocol is expensive, but worth it. And I do believe these supplements are as highly-bioavailable as they say they are, because I saw the difference immediately. [Bioavailablility is a key thing to look for in any supplement]. The first day I took them when the shipment arrived, I wasn't sure if I was just imagining feeling good, but then the feeling of well-being and energy increased steadily everyday. So I am sticking with it.

    What I take from richminerals.com, ideally twice a day, but often just once, is an Ultimate Daily Classic tablet, an Ultimate EFA Plus capsule, and a mix of two scoops of Tangy Tangerine and one of Beyond Osteo-Fx in a drink I sip thru the day. The latter I didn't think I needed, because I don't suffer joint pain, but they recommend it for all as a daily for everyone, and I later decided to take their recommendation to add it to my daily mix, because even though I gained a daily feeling of well-being on all the other dailys, I still felt achy and stiff at the end of a long active day on my feet, which was the only joint-related problem I had. So I wondered if adding that would cure that, and tried it, and it did.

    My (thrifty SLI) husband did not want to spend money on himself taking the same stuff (from richminerals), and as we had some big expenses to pay off this fall, I did not insist. But he is grunting and groaning with aches and pains at times, and I am going to get him started on the same protocol I am taking after the New Year. Also I have something else in mind for optimum health, so I have something I am selling, and am hoping it does well at auction because I want to start another great thing for my health and energy, having just read a lot on it, which I think is going to be a worthwhile investment. It is Red Light Therapy, and I want to follow the recommendations in Ari Whitten's book.

    I am mentioning this because particularly for you, Subteigh, because you mentioned epilepsy, and this is a powerful therapy for that. Whitten's book explains the therapies and has very specific recommendations for how to use the red light therapy effectively at home. Doing it his way, 5 minutes a day can offer huge gains in health and energy. If my auction sale goes well I am hoping very much to start this in January, and hoping the energy from that will help me squeeze in a good cardio and strength training routine (which I always feel I don't have time for, so I am going to use the expected extra energy boost from the red light therapy to pursue that goal next). Also I want my husband to benefit from the therapy, and he won't bulk at five minutes a day. [Like the vitamins, I can always get him to try something (for me) for a couple of weeks, with the option of quitting if he thinks it's a waste of time].
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


  29. #29
    Landlord of The Dog and Duck Subteigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    TIM
    Enlightened
    Posts
    16,688
    Mentioned
    336 Post(s)
    Tagged
    4 Thread(s)

    Default

    @Eliza Thomason
    There is quite a lot of research about how taking multivitamin pills (that contain most of the essential vitamins) actually increases your chance of early death, so I think I'd be satisfied with simply taking a cod liver oil supplement and perhaps a Vitamin D3 & K2 supplement. If I was to take other supplements, it would probably be specific things like Boron, Choline, and MSM.

    I don't really understand why it seems that there doesn't seem to be such a thing as eating too much fruit and veg, while taking multivitamin pills can be harmful.

    One thing I've been interested in recently is fruit/veg powders, e.g. spinach, beetroot, garlic, that sort of thing: essentially, fruit and veg that has had the water taken out of it. It's important to get ones that have been prepared in a way that retains the nutrients. I'm not sure yet if I will buy any however.

  30. #30
    Seriously Judicious Emotivist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    eastern U.S.
    TIM
    ENFp, IEE
    Posts
    2,760
    Mentioned
    265 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    @Eliza Thomason
    There is quite a lot of research about how taking multivitamin pills (that contain most of the essential vitamins) actually increases your chance of early death, so I think I'd be satisfied with simply taking a cod liver oil supplement and perhaps a Vitamin D3 & K2 supplement. If I was to take other supplements, it would probably be specific things like Boron, Choline, and MSM.

    I don't really understand why it seems that there doesn't seem to be such a thing as eating too much fruit and veg, while taking multivitamin pills can be harmful.

    One thing I've been interested in recently is fruit/veg powders, e.g. spinach, beetroot, garlic, that sort of thing: essentially, fruit and veg that has had the water taken out of it. It's important to get ones that have been prepared in a way that retains the nutrients. I'm not sure yet if I will buy any however.
    Who pays for the research? Pharmaceutical companies a lot of times. That's just one factor to consider.

    Another thing to consider is the bioavailability of the multivitamin you are taking. You pay a bit more for plant based ingredients that are bioavailable, or the processing are supplementary ingredients required for the particular supplement needed to make it bioavailable, and one can find the bioavailability of a product if one looks. So far what I see on drug store shelves doesn't address bioavailability. The money goes into television advertising, and shiny foil labels, not quality ingredients. I see them using the cheapest, not the best ingredients, in order to get the most profit, since the drug stores have a captive audience, as the average person won't look beyond their local drug store. Especially so many "studies" implying that all vitamins are useless (or bad!). Which cannot be true.

    But what is the validity of the studies, anyway? That can be looked up, with a little bit of effort, but the vast majority of people will accept the results they are told to accept without checking further to see if the study has any worthwhile validity. I expect the people in the multivitamin studies you mentioned took ONE multivitamin every day for years as if it was a magic pill that should account for everything they might have missed in their diet and/or lifestyle.

    My Naturopath says EVERYONE needs to take a multimineral supplement because our soil is so depleted from factory farming that one can't thrive even if one ate only things labeled "organic". And I want to thrive, not just survive. And I think it is possible to thrive, because whenever I have sought natural alternatives for a problem that was supposed to be a "forever" sort of medical problem, I fixed it without pharmaceuticals or over the counters but with vitamins and supplements, and reversals came quickly.

    One vitamin cure-all many times is magnesium. Lots of people are deficient, and lots of people get medical care, surgery, or on a lifetime of prescriptions for the very common actual core problem of magnesium deficiency. And it's an easy fix. Like it can work in a day or two.

    If you have an ailment, it's a good idea to google the ailment and "natural alternatives" or "supplements", and see what is working for others.

    I started my interest in vitamins and supplements before my son was born, when teaching. It was a job that took a LOT of energy and I wanted to still have energy when I got home. Several teachers in my building had begun to go to the same health practitioner who used applied kinesiology to determine what their particular body needed at that particular time, and I realized they ALL looked more alert, relaxed and focused now. Also the one in the school who looked the most old and tired now looked alert and happy. So I went, and it solved my energy problem quickly and thoroughly. I had no intention at that time of changing my lifestyle, or avoiding medical care, but it worked powerfully, and I have sought and found natural alternatives for every need since.

    Now I am teaching again and have found that in the years between these two parts of my career they have not just increased the pay but they have piled on the teacher work load and responsibilities to such a degree that I would have never thought it possible. Everyone would have quit! But increase the pay, and constantly and incrementally increase the work load, and people will find a way. And I don't want to be a quitter. I am determined to do well. The new supplements I started this September really did the job. But now I want to also try red light therapy, which some say is even more beneficial that supplements. (When used properly). I am thinking of looking into Written's "Energy Blueprint", as itsounds like solid research, but I hate his super hawking ways).

    Fruit and veg - I think you can truly do too much. Lierre Keith's Vegetarian Myth book is a solid case in point. (Here is a short video with her speaking of her experience and learning: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNON5iNf07o. Also I recently (can't remember where) read some very convincing research that too much veg is bad - basically, too much fiber is a big problem. Better to peel the potatoes and fruit like our parents and great grandparents did! They knew something. And oatmeal and whole grains wreck havoc in the intestinal tract. Also the fruitarian fad exposes problems of too much fruit.

    Re: fruit/veg powders - I went through a couple jars of Miracle Greens at one point, starting each day with the proscribed amount mixed in juice. I think that is the sort of thing you mentioned. It did noticeably increase my feeling of well-being at the time, and if you feel those things have been missing from your diet you might feel the same good results, too.
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


  31. #31
    Landlord of The Dog and Duck Subteigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    TIM
    Enlightened
    Posts
    16,688
    Mentioned
    336 Post(s)
    Tagged
    4 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    Who pays for the research? Pharmaceutical companies a lot of times. That's just one factor to consider.

    Another thing to consider is the bioavailability of the multivitamin you are taking. You pay a bit more for plant based ingredients that are bioavailable, or the processing are supplementary ingredients required for the particular supplement needed to make it bioavailable, and one can find the bioavailability of a product if one looks. So far what I see on drug store shelves doesn't address bioavailability. The money goes into television advertising, and shiny foil labels, not quality ingredients. I see them using the cheapest, not the best ingredients, in order to get the most profit, since the drug stores have a captive audience, as the average person won't look beyond their local drug store. Especially so many "studies" implying that all vitamins are useless (or bad!). Which cannot be true.

    But what is the validity of the studies, anyway? That can be looked up, with a little bit of effort, but the vast majority of people will accept the results they are told to accept without checking further to see if the study has any worthwhile validity. I expect the people in the multivitamin studies you mentioned took ONE multivitamin every day for years as if it was a magic pill that should account for everything they might have missed in their diet and/or lifestyle.

    My Naturopath says EVERYONE needs to take a multimineral supplement because our soil is so depleted from factory farming that one can't thrive even if one ate only things labeled "organic". And I want to thrive, not just survive. And I think it is possible to thrive, because whenever I have sought natural alternatives for a problem that was supposed to be a "forever" sort of medical problem, I fixed it without pharmaceuticals or over the counters but with vitamins and supplements, and reversals came quickly.

    One vitamin cure-all many times is magnesium. Lots of people are deficient, and lots of people get medical care, surgery, or on a lifetime of prescriptions for the very common actual core problem of magnesium deficiency. And it's an easy fix. Like it can work in a day or two.

    If you have an ailment, it's a good idea to google the ailment and "natural alternatives" or "supplements", and see what is working for others.

    I started my interest in vitamins and supplements before my son was born, when teaching. It was a job that took a LOT of energy and I wanted to still have energy when I got home. Several teachers in my building had begun to go to the same health practitioner who used applied kinesiology to determine what their particular body needed at that particular time, and I realized they ALL looked more alert, relaxed and focused now. Also the one in the school who looked the most old and tired now looked alert and happy. So I went, and it solved my energy problem quickly and thoroughly. I had no intention at that time of changing my lifestyle, or avoiding medical care, but it worked powerfully, and I have sought and found natural alternatives for every need since.

    Now I am teaching again and have found that in the years between these two parts of my career they have not just increased the pay but they have piled on the teacher work load and responsibilities to such a degree that I would have never thought it possible. Everyone would have quit! But increase the pay, and constantly and incrementally increase the work load, and people will find a way. And I don't want to be a quitter. I am determined to do well. The new supplements I started this September really did the job. But now I want to also try red light therapy, which some say is even more beneficial that supplements. (When used properly). I am thinking of looking into Written's "Energy Blueprint", as itsounds like solid research, but I hate his super hawking ways).

    Fruit and veg - I think you can truly do too much. Lierre Keith's Vegetarian Myth book is a solid case in point. (Here is a short video with her speaking of her experience and learning: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNON5iNf07o. Also I recently (can't remember where) read some very convincing research that too much veg is bad - basically, too much fiber is a big problem. Better to peel the potatoes and fruit like our parents and great grandparents did! They knew something. And oatmeal and whole grains wreck havoc in the intestinal tract. Also the fruitarian fad exposes problems of too much fruit.

    Re: fruit/veg powders - I went through a couple jars of Miracle Greens at one point, starting each day with the proscribed amount mixed in juice. I think that is the sort of thing you mentioned. It did noticeably increase my feeling of well-being at the time, and if you feel those things have been missing from your diet you might feel the same good results, too.
    With essential vitamins and generic products like garlic, I don't expect the research to be predominantly skewed by pharmaceutical companies. Although I suspect that items used in "traditional medicine" may be heavily pushed by researchers with a "home" bias (for example, ginseng by Koreans). I doubt that producers of garlic or magnesium supplements would be able to afford television ads.

    If you look at the vitamin content for most fruit/veg powders - e.g. for Vitamin C, you'll find that a single serving will not even equal the Vitamin C you'd get from a single daily dose of fruit or veg - which means they're an expensive way of selling you something that has little nutritional value. I think Green Vibrance was the closest I found to an exception.

    Either something is beneficial or it isn't - "natural alternative" doesn't mean anything.

  32. #32
    Seriously Judicious Emotivist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    eastern U.S.
    TIM
    ENFp, IEE
    Posts
    2,760
    Mentioned
    265 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    With essential vitamins and generic products like garlic, I don't expect the research to be predominantly skewed by pharmaceutical companies. Although I suspect that items used in "traditional medicine" may be heavily pushed by researchers with a "home" bias (for example, ginseng by Koreans). I doubt that producers of garlic or magnesium supplements would be able to afford television ads.

    If you look at the vitamin content for most fruit/veg powders - e.g. for Vitamin C, you'll find that a single serving will not even equal the Vitamin C you'd get from a single daily dose of fruit or veg - which means they're an expensive way of selling you something that has little nutritional value. I think Green Vibrance was the closest I found to an exception.

    Either something is beneficial or it isn't - "natural alternative" doesn't mean anything.
    You are absolutely right about the garlic and the magnesium research not likely being skewed by pharmaceutical companies. I was thinking more like studies that say vitamins are useless. Recently I purchased Magnesium again for a problem (that was quickly cured with it), and to decide what to order I typed in the search engine there "Magnesium" and "bioavailable" and then looked at results with best customer reviews. Then I read reviews and made a decision based what people said about it's bioavailablility [which if they were using it to treat a chronic problem, they had a valuable testimony], it's potency, and price per doses of the same potency.

    I say "natural alternative" because I don't know how else to describe what I do. I've tried many things for many problems that seem serious, or were. Like I was diagnosed by our city's most reputable allergist as having adult onset asthma and being in need of daily cortisone inhaler and other things to heavily manage it. I didn't do those things, but researched and found Buteyko Breathing online, and joined a yahoo support group for it, and practiced it, and got over what was being treated as a lifetime problem practically immediately, and fully in a month or two. That was all free of course, as often finding a cheap way to fix a problem is often needful. Also I mentioned working with an herbalist for a period of time.... So how to lump all these various things together, I don't know. I just label it "natural alternatives" for lack of any other better term I can think of.

    Your problem with my word "natural alternative" may have to do with the differing way our different types process information. In my opinion, you process info much more like an INTp than and INFj. My type processes large masses of information without pausing too much at details but is still able to come to good conclusions. Other types take in things more linearly and can get stuck at improper use of a word or phrase, while that would be something I would ignore (like, I would say to myself, "I see what they are getting at though i wouldn't use that term", and I would go on taking in lots more info in order to glean what is key for me from it.

    It's interesting that you mention garlic, which is actually the very first thing that got me on the path to "natural alternatives". It was an article I read, which I have shared many times, and can scan and post here if you are interested.

    Interesting point about the vitamin C. At the time period I used Miracle Greens I did not research it much; it just seemed like a simple solution to my concern that I might not be getting enough nutrients. But even if the C is deficient in these powders, I wonder about the other amounts? I guess you can just find a pic of the ingredients online and find that out. The fruits and vegs in the powder mix would have other minerals, including trace ones, that are needful. [and speaking of that, make sure you take in plenty of sea salt or mined salt vs. the stripped and processed iodized salt. It's an important thing, and a cheap thing to do for your health].

    But really, really good for your diet, as mentioned by the very intelligent Lierre Keith who expresses herself so well in that video link above, is animal fats and organ meats. They are 100x more nutrient rich than any plant food! 100x! My naturopath says to just say not to Vegetarian, because animal foods are the MOST bioavailable foods. I'm not fond of liver and kidney, yuk. But I've been feeling I need to get over that and do what's good for me...
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


  33. #33
    Sumdumho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    TIM
    Te-ILI-C 1w9so/sx153
    Posts
    38
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I take 12k iu vitamin D a day and I live in a sunny place. Vitamin D poisoning is definitely a thing, but its pretty hard to accomplish and much less likely than one's vitamin D being critically low. As long as you get blood tests with decent regularity (which come back in the normal range) and feel fine, you probably don't have excess vitamin D in your system. Believe me, if you have vitamin D poisoning you will know. The physical symptoms are extremely severe.
    Everything happens for a reason.

  34. #34
    Landlord of The Dog and Duck Subteigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    TIM
    Enlightened
    Posts
    16,688
    Mentioned
    336 Post(s)
    Tagged
    4 Thread(s)

    Default

    So far, from my research, for general health, most people should take 10g of garlic, 1g of Cod Liver Oil, and 0.5-1g of activated Curcumin. If they don't take Cod Liver Oil, they should take a Vitamin D3 supplement during darker months (combined with Vitamin K2). I've started taking 1g of panax ginseng once a week because Examine.com mentions its strong anti-cancer properties (perhaps based on limited research). Other compounds of particular note I think are Melatonin and Spirulina (although with Spirulina, it is important to not get it from China because of an increased likelihood of excessive heavy metal content and tampering with the product).

    Things I think are also worth looking into (based on Examine.com's analysis so far): Creatine, Hibiscus sabdariffa, Kava, Krill Oil (if you take this, then there is less need to take Cod Live Oil), Nitrate, Rhodiola rosea, and Salacia reticulata.

    Of lesser interest: Ashwagandha, Bacopa monnieri, Berberine, Blueberry, Caffeine, Coenzyme 10 (CoQ 10), Echinacea, Feverfew, Gynostemma pentaphyllum, Hesperidin, Inositol, Lavender, Peppermint, Psyllium, Pycnogel, S-Adenosyl methionine, Saffron, Tetradecyl thioacetic acid, and Theanine.

    I'm probably going to research herbs/spices/vegetables/fruit more in the future.

  35. #35

    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    Uranus
    Posts
    3,465
    Mentioned
    72 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    There are a billion things you can and should take. Koreans pushing ginseng doesn't seem like a huge deal. Use ginseng if you like ginseng and something else if you like something else. Pharmaceutical companies want you to take Advil every day and eat 8 servings of bread. As long as you load up on a variety of herbs, spices, teas/teasans, fruits, vegetables, nuts, and legumes and make sure no plants or fungi have drug interactions and don't overdose you're fine. Very few things on your list are so unique nothing can work in their place. The only really unique ones I can think of are ginkgo, ashwagandha, CoQ10, hibiscus, and chili pepper, and those five aren't necessary in any way even if a lot of people get a lot out of them. Sometimes things which seem really in left-field are similar, like pine and citrus, or cinnamon and chamomile.

    I still don't think cod liver oil does anything. https://www.sciencealert.com/omega-3...r-well-behaved


    Supposedly olive oil contains the strongest antioxidant. https://www.oliveoiltimes.com/health...t-claims/25030

    If extracts deliver a higher dose of hydroxytyrosol without the fat content of olive oil, are they a better alternative for those who want the antioxidant benefit?

    Finley: Definitely not! People have evolved eating food and adapted to the quantities of bioactive compounds in food, so given a choice, obtaining nutrients and bioactives through food is always the best choice. We are learning that for many bioactives, it is not a single substance but the complex milieu in food that provides the benefit. An example is that fruits and vegetables are associated with decreased cancer risk, but two large studies that fed isolated beta-carotene (the substance from fruits and vegetables thought to be responsible for the decrease in cancer) actually increased lung cancer.

    So, if you just enjoy life and eat a bunch of plants which burn your mouth, that's the main way to get benefits. Anything artificial might cause harm, unless it's been shown to be beneficial.
    WARNING: SUM OF DIS CHAPTA IS XTREMLY SCRAY. VIOWER EXCRETION ADVISD

  36. #36
    Jesus is the cruel sausage consentingadult's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    3,571
    Mentioned
    99 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I now occasionally vape CBD weed (weed without the psychoactive THC component) when my muscles are tense. CBD is also available legally over here in the form of drops (for unde the tongue) or capsules. My GF sleeps better on these CBD drops.

    A while ago I saw CBD drops for pets on a website. CBD is also known for its anti-inflammatory effects and positive effects on the joints. One of our cats, 15 years old, has Osteoarthritis and sometimes is in pain, for which the vet prescribed a pain reliever, which works, but he cannot have it on a frequent basis. So we decided to give these CBD drops for pets a try, despite lack of scientific evidence (which is the result of lack of research). He's much more mobile now, has an easier time jumping on and off things (he had developed a sort of climbing instead of jumping), and he no longer walks like he has pooped his pants. Perhaps it has bad side effects in the long run, but so far he seems to enjoy better quality of life.
    “I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking

  37. #37
    f.k.a Oprah sbbds's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    TIM
    SLE
    Posts
    3,819
    Mentioned
    269 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I’ve been taking fish collagen powder for the last few weeks. My digestion, anxiety/thinking/nerves, and skin have all improved noticeably.

  38. #38
    Landlord of The Dog and Duck Subteigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    TIM
    Enlightened
    Posts
    16,688
    Mentioned
    336 Post(s)
    Tagged
    4 Thread(s)

    Default

    Cthulhu oil was good, but nothing else I've been taking so far has any obvious effect to me. Maybe I have less chest pain, but that is hard to quantify and associate with any one thing.

    I found out yesterday that I have a genotype that affects the balance of Omega-3 and Omega-6 conversion, and a genotype that makes me more likely to be Vitamin D deficient. But seeing as I'm taking Cod Liver Oil and Vitamin D+K pills already, that isn't an issue.

  39. #39

    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    Uranus
    Posts
    3,465
    Mentioned
    72 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    Cthulhu oil was good
    How are the mutations coming? Lä! Lä!
    WARNING: SUM OF DIS CHAPTA IS XTREMLY SCRAY. VIOWER EXCRETION ADVISD

  40. #40

    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    Uranus
    Posts
    3,465
    Mentioned
    72 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    On a more serious note, I recommend pine needle/similar conifer tea to everyone who's not pregnant. (Please be careful not to get yew. A couple of other conifers are also not advisable for regular consumption but at least you'll survive and be OK if you accidentally get a Pfitzer juniper instead of common juniper or something along those lines.)
    Last edited by Coeruleum Blue; 01-26-2020 at 03:19 PM.
    WARNING: SUM OF DIS CHAPTA IS XTREMLY SCRAY. VIOWER EXCRETION ADVISD

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •