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Thread: Concept of time

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    Default Concept of time

    Im listening to music while being a bit sleepy rn. And the beat feels like its faster than normal even tho i listened to the song many times.

    Which leads me to the question if everyones awareness of time (and sensations in the timeframe) differs. For example im a 7 and very extroverted and tend to listen to very fast and loud music. But i also know an Ni lead that listens to very slow and harmonious music and feel fine with that. (While i tend to be bored by it.)

    Now makes me wonder if that person (and other persons with similar working brains and cognition) experience those fast songs i listen to as even faster than me when im simply sleepy as compared to me normally?

    Maybe thats why they easily get overwhelmed by them and i get stimulated?

    So maybe if ur Ni lead compared to Se lead your senses are more numb? As in ur brain registers stuff more slowly making fast/large sensory input (like fast music) appear more slowly to them?

    Also did anyone else notice that?

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    Hmm, interesting. Maybe Ni egos experience time dilation due to their higher awareness/perception of Time, which means that they age slower? sort of general relativity applied to socionics. Dunno, food for thought.

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    The is something I've always been mind fucked by. How can you know whether or not you are experiencing time going by at the same speed as everyone else?

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    I’m probably not Ni/Se valuing, but this thread made me think.

    I’ve never paid much attention to the perception of time passing. Sometimes when I’m feeling introspective, I’ll think about the past; otherwise, I make plans for the future — generally detailed ‘enough’ to the point that I feel I have a framework for what to do, but probably more open-ended than many people would feel comfortable with. Beyond this, I wouldn’t say I think more about the past or future, or even the present. More about general ideas and imaginings, not connected to a certain point in time.

    Fast and loud music usually annoys me. I wouldn’t call it overwhelming, but there’s a volume at which where music becomes noise for me. I’m not sure what music is considered ‘slow’, but I don’t think most music I listen to is much slower than the average pop song.

    Another thought. I’m not very consciously aware of time passing, and it can sometimes blindside me — generally with short-term events; for instance I’ll overcook noodles often because I forget that I’m making them. But with longer-term planning, I think I have a decent grasp of it. I’ve compared my sense of time to my SEI girlfriend’s before. It feels often like she wastes time — not that she simply rests, but she doesn’t spend the time she has to properly rest or do anything she likes to do, but she won’t do anything ‘productive’ either. Then when she hits a deadline for something she suddenly hurries at the last minute to get it done, then frantically complains that she doesn’t feel rested and that she never has time to do anything. Whereas (at least in comparison) I think I unconsciously file things I need to do into a schedule I automatically, more or less, carry out later.

    That said, if I do consciously make a schedule, I’m terrible at carrying it out.

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    When I need to get physical things done and have to self motivate I put on faster or aggressive music. I also enjoy it more when I am with others than alone. When I am alone or don't have to get myself moving I will listen to slower music. I have said before that listening to fast aggressive music is a great way to self supply Se. It feels like it speeds me up (which may not be perceived by someone watching me) and sometimes makes me feel more powerful and bold. lol

    I recently got a new trait on genomelink that says I have an intermediate perception of time. I wanted to look into it more since I am not sure what they mean by it.

    This video is interesting since I have always been more of an "event time" (internal) than a "clock time" (external) kind of person even though I live in a predominantly "clock time" culture. I do things in my own time which annoys some people when I try to explain why I am waiting. I think I have most people around irl trained by now to just walk away when I say "later," "not yet" "soon" or "when I'm ready".

    Edit: I just realized I made myself sound like a magic 8 ball or something.

    They also don't think it is because I am lazy or procrastinating (in the lazy sense) although sometimes I can procrastinate but it is usually because I am going to end up not doing it anyway.


    I think it is worth watching all the way through if you are interested in the concept of time and how we need to be more open to event time (internal) than just relying on clock time (external).



    Time Perception



    Every individual perceives the flow of time differently

    Time perception refers to a person’s subjective experience of the passage of time, or the perceived duration of events, which can differ significantly between different individuals and/or in different circumstances. Although physical time appears to be more or less objective, psychological time is subjective and potentially malleable, exemplified by common phrases like “time flies when you are having fun” and “a watched pot never boils”. This malleability is made particularly apparent by the various temporal illusions we experience.

    As a field of study within psychology and neuroscience, time perception came of age in the late 19th Century with the studies of the relationship between perceived and measured time by one of the founders of modern experimental psychology, Gustav Theodor Fechner.

    We do not so much perceive time itself, but changes in or the passage of time, or what might be described as “events in time”. In particular, we are aware of the temporal relations between events, and we perceive events as being either simultaneous or successive. We also have a perception of the sequence or order of these events.

    Our sense of time seems to have originated as a product of human evolution, and it is not a purely automatic or innate process, but a complex activity that we develop and actively learn as we grow. Humans are, as far as we know, the only animals to be consciously aware of the passage of time and our own impermanence and mortality, and to have a consciousness of the past that is anything more than pure instinct and behavioural conditioning.

    How We Perceive Time

    Although psychologists believe that there is a neurological system governing the perception of time, it appears not to be associated with specific sensory pathways, but rather uses a highly distributed system in the brain (see the section on Biopsychology). Time perception therefore differs from our other senses – sight, hearing, taste, smell, touch, even proprioception – since time cannot be directly perceived, and so must be “reconstructed” in some way by the brain.
    Neurotransmitters such as dopamine and norepinephrine (adrenaline) are integrally involved in our perception of time, although the exact mechanism is still not well understood. The human brain appears to possess some kind of “internal clock” (distinct from the biological or circadian clock) which is linked to specific dopamine levels, or possibly even several different clocks working together but independently, each of which may dictate our time perception depending on the particular context (see the section on Biopsychology for more detail).

    When the brain receives new information from the outside world, the raw data does not necessarily arrive in the order needed to process it properly. The brain therefore reorganizes the information and presents it in a more easily understandable form. In the case of familiar information, very little time is needed for this process, but new information requires more processing and this extra processing tends to makes time feel elongated. This is part of the reason why a child’s summer seems to last forever, while an old person’s well-practiced routine seems to slip away faster and faster. The more familiar the task, the less new information the brain needs to process, and the more quickly time seems to pass.

    To some extent also, the perception of time is associated with other cognitive processes such as attention. Measuring the duration of an event – whether it be the length of time to leave a sauce to simmer, estimating how fast to run to catch a ball, or calculating whether there is enough time to drive through a yellow light – requires a certain amount of attention, and new events appear to take longer than familiar events because more attention is paid to them. For instance, in psychological tests, if the same picture is shown again and again, interspersed every so often with a different picture, the different picture is perceived by the observer as staying on-screen for longer, even if all the pictures actually appear for the same length of time. The difference arises from the degree of attention paid to the pictures.

    The perception of time durations is also crucially bound up with memory. It is essentially our memory of an event (and perhaps, even more specifically, our memory of the beginning and end of the event) that allows us to form a perception of, or a belief in, its duration. We infer, albeit subconsciously, the duration of an event from our memory of how far in the past something occurred, of how long ago the beginning and end of the event occurred. It is not clear whether this is done by some measure of the strength of a memory trace that persists over time (the strength model of time memory), or by an inference based on associations between the event and other events whose date or time is known (the inference model).

    There is increasing evidence that an animal’s metabolic rate affects the way it perceives time. In general, larger animals have a slower metabolic rate, and time passes relatively rapidly for them. Smaller animals, conversely, tend to have faster metabolisms, and experience time as passing relatively slowly, so that they can perceive more events in the same period. Studies have shown that small animals can in fact distinguish very short and very quick-changing events, which is one reason why a fly can avoid a swatter with such apparent ease. In evolutionary terms, the ability to perceive time on very small scales may be the difference between life and death for small, vulnerable animals.

    Sequence and Duration

    We perceive time as series of events in a sequence, separate by durations of various lengths. Our experience is not limited to a single series of events, though, but we experience a plurality of overlapping events, sequences and durations.

    A metronome ticking at a rate of two or three times a second is perceived as an integral sequence, as a rhythm. When the ticks are less frequent, though, say at intervals of three seconds, the sounds appears to be no longer perceived as a sequence in the same way, and each sound impulse remains an isolated perceptual event. Similar results occur with slowed down speech or music: music or spoken sentences are only recognizable as such when their rhythmic patterns and phrases are presented at an optimal speed that allow them to be recognized as a perceptual unity.

    The perception of a duration requires a minimum of about 0.1 seconds in the case of visual stimuli such as a flash, or much less (0.01 to 0.02 seconds) in the case of auditory stimuli. Stimuli of any shorter time than these are therefore perceived as instantaneous, and as not representing any duration at all.

    http://www.exactlywhatistime.com/psy...me-perception/


    Edit: If people call me lazy for having my own pace or refusing to do what they want when they want it they are probably going to face my wrath.
    Last edited by Aylen; 10-25-2019 at 10:14 PM.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



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    I've noted that Ip-types seem to have the best sense of timing but the worst concept of time whereas Eps tend to be frustratingly unpredictable in both these aspects.......

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    I've noted that Ip-types seem to have the best sense of timing but the worst concept of time whereas Eps tend to be frustratingly unpredictable in both these aspects.......

    a.k.a. I/O
    That's because it is a man-made construct. It is not a tangible "thing" so of course it might look like a bad concept of time, depending on which ip you ask and how they answer.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



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    Do I make detailed schedules? Nope.

    I just look at something: so much time let's see... I could cut something off and I could get a set back there and let's put some time for waste or back up if it gets tight. Yup, settled-ish.

    Somehow I have managed to do 4 hour lab work in 2.5 hours because it was a late start (let god have mercy on lab my partner's soul because I effin pushed to the limit and invented bunch of tricks). I have kept with the same pace with other person across the hall in different rooms with peeps of different needs. Kind of amazing. I would not like fast paced work with lots of physical action required though as I wold likely drop out.

    Change of plans in the middle of day could be bit risky.


    That is in essence my sense of time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    That's because it is a man-made construct. It is not a tangible "thing" so of course it might look like a bad concept of time, depending on which ip you ask and how they answer.
    I agree but need to alter this a bit by saying time is not just a construct of the human mind. Events always move forward because of the rules of thermo-dynamics and so time has direction in space and therefore it exists independent of our conceiving it. The arrow of time.

    There are some fairly cutting edge schools of thought that consider that although time moves forward, events of the future may effect the past, or rather, the past and the future was always going to happen in co-tangent order with each other. This was nicely demonstrated by the move Arrival. Time in this conception was circular, events that were going to happen did happen and it was only our human point of view that altered the awareness of where the protagonist stood in the sequence of events. In this way the protagonist could perceive the future as though it had already happened in her memory. This was not because she was somehow prescient, it was because her human consciousness had expanded into a new mode of operation where she could now see every sequence of event that ever was and did happen all at once. In this modality, the future effecting the past became an easy possibility, for all points on the arrow of time are perceived at the same time and not in a snap shot with snap shot momentality, with the future snap shots remaining a dark mystery.

    There are Ne people who have further carved out understanding here. Einstein stated that time could be thought of as grouping of individual slices of a bread loaf, and each slice was your relative position to the event of some unfolding action in front of you. In this picture, time is episodic. Each episode is one sliced moment and an event is many slices glued together. You would watch a tennis ball move across your field of vision and it would look like such: click, click, click click click click click. Each click denotes a new frame in which the ball has moved through its arced path. You see such clicks from a film roll. Your brain also clicks frames by virtue of its processing capacity.

    Don't believe me? Maybe its time you tried some consciousness altering drugs, such as a magic mushroom. Even marijuana would suffice. Then you can easily see that each moment in time is a billion stitched together episodes of individual discreet awareness. When I'm sending a large tree through the canopy to the forest floor I see these episodes almost in slow motion, as I have worked with my mind's perceptual awareness all my life and can "slow time". Its not as though I am literally slowing time down as its happening, only speeding up my conscious perceptual awareness of each individual framed click and therefore see the moments pass by more slowly and therefore witness the moving pieces easily.

    If time is relative to our position of it, and as Einstein also said, time is the same thing as space, or dimensionality, then it stands to reason that you can look backwards through time. This is the case. If you peer backwards through-out outer space you are looking backwards through time. You are looking backwards through the events of the Universe and you are literally seeing the genesis of Galaxies all the way to the start. There is currently in the works a telescope that will look backwards through time to the very start, within years of the actual big bang. Its called the James Webb telescope and its pretty fucking cutting edge. It seems that for now, we can only look back into the past.

    What can be done about this? This is where our human brain gives us a good-enuff answer. Our mind can witness what it sees and play those moments again and again in our memories. These memories can help us build a map of the territory and these maps can allow us to navigate places where we have been and even places we have not been. This achievement of our consciousness, perhaps shared by some other organisms, affords us the ability to predict the future. These predictions have become technologized by maths and sciences and now these predictions are pretty much the most accurate way to see the future. *Most accurate*, but not perfect. That's because predictions based off observed memory and technological reasoning are not true future-sight. They are simply our most precious asset of the human organism, but they are an illusion ultimately.

    This is why predicting climate change is the same as throwing darts at a dart board. No matter how good you are, there are to many variables to account for and the unpredictable is always possible. All people need to learn this lesson before group spell casting society in multiple directions. The medicine man's bones on the ground was also once common sense.

    To be recording the events as they happen is a form of introverted intuition. If you do what I am talking about as a habit, continually, through-out most of your life, then you may want to consider that Ni sits somewhere in your ego block.

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    @Number 9 large

    My theory/opinion,
    When you fall asleep (or start falling asleep) your brain stops focusing/filtering as much. A loss of mental focus/filtering could shift a perception of time as well. So maybe 30 seconds passes on a clock, but it feels like 5 seconds passed mentally. So the song is mentally compressed or filtered in your head and is actually faster in your head. I think this is why we dream; all our conscious filters disengage, so the brain can reorder/repair itself on a subconscious level. A sped up or super-focused brain would see things slower.

    So in terms of time, yes, I think you're right. Ni as a form of cognition in humans I think is the loss of this filter. So they perceive things differently or with more input/stimuli, or see things happening faster to them. It's a stream of the unconscious as Jung coined it. It's also probably why Ni types have a harder time with Se stuff because they aren't wired to actively filter and slow it down like Se types.
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    time passes at a pretty constant rate to me
    anomalously generic INT blob


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    I believe something similar applies to Ni demonstrative people as well. Speaking for myself, everytime I'm favoring Ne over Ni, it seems time runs slower.

    Also, I recall time passing the slowest when I was in a relaxing Si state, which leaves me wondering if Si leading individuals, being the most attuned to the present moment may percept it the slowest.

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    I think I can control it to an extent, or rather, I can control my actions and feelings very well according to timing. I have amazing timing actually, but it’s not usually terribly conscious. What’s conscious is my level of control of my behaviors, calibrating it to objects in space and time.



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    I’ve noticed I have a very good sense of time. I seem to know how much time has passed and about what time it is, how much time it will take to do something realistically, etc., better than other people. Is this an Ni indicator?

    I definitely do not perceive time as slow. A lot of people seem to overestimate the time they have. Unless bored af in class or something, I think time goes pretty fast.
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    Einstein already proved people's sensation of time differs. Time also naturally moves faster if you are still but it slows down when you get up and move, and live your life. Remember 'the Observer never sees what is real.'

    You literally waste your life doing nothing and being depressed. That is what is so dangerous bout depression, time speeds up in demonic ways and you get older faster than u should and u will want to kill yourself even staying stuck depressing your room all day. "Depression wants to get you alone in a room so it can kill you" Nothing will happen to you if you just sit there and sulk and you don't grow- yet your body deteriorates and grows older and you get closer to death. Living for eternity means you do everything faster and keep it moving like you should. That is the key to immortality and what the rulers of this universe already know.

    The opposite of LIVE is EVIL. Evil is just not living.

    We are just meant to live out in the world, even if predators want to eat us and stuff because- time then slows down and so does our aging. Also we're 70% of water. When we're not moving.... that water gets stagnant and yucky- and time moves even faster to pollute it even more.

    The True Evil Ones of this world want u to just stay stuck in our room feeling insecure and neurotic about stuff, and talking to people without real intimacy and getting us to hate and kill each other- but we are meant to Adventure and Live!

    Well of course u need rest and sleep too. But the best sleep is one that is earned after living.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BandD View Post
    Einstein already proved people's sensation of time differs. Time also naturally moves faster if you are still but it slows down when you get up and move, and live your life. Remember 'the Observer never sees what is real.'

    You literally waste your life doing nothing and being depressed. That is what is so dangerous bout depression, time speeds up in demonic ways and you get older faster than u should and u will want to kill yourself even staying stuck depressing your room all day. "Depression wants to get you alone in a room so it can kill you" Nothing will happen to you if you just sit there and sulk and you don't grow- yet your body deteriorates and grows older and you get closer to death. Living for eternity means you do everything faster and keep it moving like you should. That is the key to immortality and what the rulers of this universe already know.

    The opposite of LIVE is EVIL. Evil is just not living.

    We are just meant to live out in the world, even if predators want to eat us and stuff because- time then slows down and so does our aging. Also we're 70% of water. When we're not moving.... that water gets stagnant and yucky- and time moves even faster to pollute it even more.

    The True Evil Ones of this world want u to just stay stuck in our room feeling insecure and neurotic about stuff, and talking to people without real intimacy and getting us to hate and kill each other- but we are meant to Adventure and Live!

    Well of course u need rest and sleep too. But the best sleep is one that is earned after living.
    bro times goes slow af when ur depressed. u dont know the saying time flies when ur having fun?

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    I guess I would say my conception of time is more recursive—in the sense of an ongoing moment—which I could see some aspects of being related to Ni, compared with the predominantly stable Se-egos I've known. But the point to me is that this recursion operates in terms of simultaneous reflections, so when contextualizing peoples' sense of time, it's more about how they feel about their own energies than any actual mental structure; this just seems like an aftereffect to me.

    In terms of functions, it definitely seems like Ni-egos (particularly Ni-dominants) relativize their timeliness the most, and so establish a more encompassing rhythm that can be manipulated in various ways. But I don't know about mapping it to different functions, i.e. Se-egos tend to punctuate things better.
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    I doubt it's socionics related. Time appears to speed up as we age and our perception of it depends on what we are doing and how engaged we are.
    ht
    tps://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-does-time-seem-to-speed-up-with-age/

    "... surveyed 499 participants, ranging in age from 14 to 94 years, about the pace at which they felt time moving—from “very slowly” to “very fast.” For shorter durations—a week, a month, even a year—the subjects' perception of time did not appear to increase with age. Most participants felt that the clock ticked by quickly. But for longer durations, such as a decade, a pattern emerged: older people tended to perceive time as moving faster. (...) participants older than 40 felt that time elapsed slowly in their childhood but then accelerated steadily through their teenage years into early adulthood."

    "... humans can estimate the length of an event from two very different perspectives: a prospective vantage, while an event is still occurring, or a retrospective one, after it has ended. (...) experience of time varies with whatever we are doing and how we feel about it. (...) time does fly when we are having fun. (...) But if we remember that activity later on, it will seem to have lasted longer than more mundane experiences."

    "Our brain encodes new experiences, but not familiar ones, into memory, and our retrospective judgment of time is based on how many new memories we create over a certain period"

    "Of course, this means we can also slow time down later in life. We can alter our perceptions by keeping our brain active, continually learning skills and ideas, and exploring new places."

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