ESI/LIE Conversations

[Adam Strange]

I feel motivated to tell you about this piece of very valuable relationship advice, even though I won't be efficient at explaining it, but its basically a simple solution. I feel moved to try my best to explain it to you here, because I keep thinking it will be quite valuable to add to your bag of tricks.. LOL, I mean, your methods of securing your Dual spouse.

This relationship advice came from a mega-bestseller among Christian books, called Love Must Be Tough, by Dr. James Dobson. So many copies were sold and there have been many re-printings that there is a ton out there and you can buy a used on Amazon starting at 40 cents. Any edition will do. I just gave away 2/3rds of my precious books that I love, survivors of many previous cullings. One of them was this book, and it was hard to part with as I have lent it to many. In fact it was the 3rd copy I'd owned since many people forget to return books, but I wanted to keep owning a copy of it since it had helped many.

The goal of James Dobson (founder of "Focus on the family" Institute) in this book was to save marriages, particularly to help the spouse whose spouse was straying from the marriage, often for an affair, or from boredom or disinterest. The book tells the method for winning them back.

When I Google "straying spouse" I see all kinds of advice which is exactly what Dobson describes and relegates to his "NEVER Do This" category, which includes everything you are tempted to do: Beg, plead, reason, have a sit-down talk, ingratiate yourself, cry pitifully, promise to be better, etc., etc. Dobson has a simple but different solution that is easy and TRUE HELP for someone in this desperate situation.

I know you are not desperate, Adam, but this advice is great for ESI's like above*, who are inexplicitly backing away, to bring them back, if possible. And you must ensure also you do not do any of the normal responses that will certainly drive them further away..

There are basic principles and Dobson tells them, but they center on this theme: Never act desperate to keep them, instead, calmly accept their decision to leave, saying something like, "I am sorry you want to leave. I love you and care for you deeply and would like you to stay, but I respect your decision to go away. I will miss you but I want you to be happy and I want to give you the space to do this if that is what yo want." (I don't have the book here to check, but that is the gist of it). You show deep respect for their need for space [Also, he explains, respect yourself and make them respect you by never letting let them have that "exploration space" in your shared home. They need to leave for this].

Okay, here is the simple thing you do, the central theme, that is hard to explain without a picture. But this works for not just marriages but new or old relationships and friendships.

Dobson draws a simple childlike drawing int he text to go with his explanation.

Scenario ONE:

The picture is two hands, index fingers pointing up, about 6" apart from each other. The picture represents the two spouses, the 6" away represents their normal space between them.

Spouse #1 gets bored/restless, discontent, so he/she increases the distance, moving in the opposite direction of their spouse, 3-6" away from them.

The further the distance created, the more panicked Spouse#2 gets, wanting to remedy this alarming situation, so she/he closes the distance, going after #1, trying to maintain that 6" space!

Spouse #1, the man (or woman) with a mission, still needing the extra space he feels he must have, keeps on moving!

Spouse #2 wit more determination than ever keeps moving after Spouse #1 to get back the 6" space, and this is going nowhere good. Spouse #2 can't win.

____________

Scenario TWO:

Begins in same way as above, with the two spouses 6" apart.

Spouse #1 wants space, or to explore another relationship, so begins moving left away from Spouse #2.

Spouse #2 does not chase him. He allows the space to increase. I think Spouse #2 may begin to wander further away himself.

Spouse number #1 looks back and says, "Hey, wait a minute, this increased space is uncomfortable!" or, "Hey, I am the one increasing space. Why is he/she increasing it?" He starts to close back in a bit and see what Spouse #2 is up to. Is she still there for him?

You see, the only way top get them back is to let them go, or even move further away.

___________

Dobson explains a lot of simple things related things on how to play this in the book. Rule Number One is never let them see the book! Hide it. Because if they read it and see what you are doing, it's game over, and they are free to wander away again, as there is no curiosity to bring them back. You keep up a "mystery", polite, and not overplaying it. You stay polite, not troubled, and definitely not "desperate," ever. Your regret at the relationship not working is very matter-of-fact, calm and accepting. So this book describes a very practical method. And it works! Try it once and you will find other uses for it. I have. My sis-in-law saved her marriage with it; she used that book, and attributes it to the saving of her marriage. Two kids and many years in a conflictor marriage! It's been challenge for both but both are glad to have stayed an intact family for their kids most especially.

So Adam, this seems like it might help you with the ESI above, or at least certainly with similar situations. Sorry I can't check for typos but I have spent way too long on this! More thoughts below on that ESI:


__________
*Also the ESI would have an exquisite personal feeling reaction to an 8 hour "date" with a dual who only just before had been a basically a stranger, like in the situation you describe here. I kind of understand her use of Fi , which may not be so different from mine, even though she is my Supervisee. She would want to take this wealth of feeling-reactions that came from this long day of extroverted interactions deep INSIDE herself, alone, away from prying eyes, to give it all the time she needs to contemplate and think it through. Without any outside input! You don't want to disturb that process by appearing to be pressuring her or waiting for her action-response. Sort of like a hungry wild animal you just gave a food offering to. You withdraw, let them eat, and don't hover. You respect the distance they need to be comfortable eating. Particularly if she liked you and it's clear you are a good match, and you are available, and you are interested. That surely must increase the need for space. That is a lot to contemplate, especially if she wasn't feeling ready for a relationship, and cautions that came up in the conversation require exploring, i.e., you make more or as much as she does and that feels intimidating, and she has to figure out for herself how she could live with/deal with that. Also, you say her comfort zone is "dweebish ILI" and you are a quite a departure from that - she needs time and space to think how/if she can handle this new and unknown.

I think if you ever even imply a push for a response from her concerning the next step, before she had made decision after her necessary introverted contemplation, the safest, automatic, expected reply from her would be "No way, no thanks." So much better than to later regret having too soon and too unknowingly said yes to unforeseen dangers and discomforts! Yes, you are a force to be reckoned with, and that force requires her to put her arm out straight and keep the force back a bit. Space please. Back off now. If/when she is ready, the arm comes down, welcoming you to make that move she knew you had in you all along.

I think Extroverted Gamma types, both you and SEE, tend to be like, "Okay, it's obvious, and to both of us: we are a match. Now let's lay the cards on the table and move this forward!" I think Introverted Gamma really don't want to be rushed and you need to make yourself scarce like you would with that hungry wild animal. The fact that she wrote you flirting texts now that you have accepted the distance does not surprise me. She has not actually closed that door.

If any ESI's are reading this, feedback would be helpful, since I am not an ESI. Does my read of what is going on in ESI's head seem plausible?

Thanks, Eliza. I really appreciate all the work you put into that reply. And the advice is excellent. I didn't know about Fi-doms needing time to process their thoughts, but now I do. Thanks for that.

It is interesting that you suggested that I simply tell her that I respect her wishes, and then withdraw and give her space. When she said last week that she only wanted a business relationship with me, I texted her back and said "I respect that. I know that you know what you want, and I have to say, I hope you will change your mind sometime in the future, but as for now, a business relationship is fine."

However, Eliza, I really don't think she's interested in me, Dual or not-Dual. I've known her for years, and that one date was a very long time ago. If she really wanted a closer relationship, she'd have said something by now.

You know how people can talk about the weather, and simultaneously be describing their true thoughts about marriage or a friend or some problematic person at work? She has done this to me. Once, when I called her about doing some work in the yard, she said the phrase "I don't think they've lost interest yet entirely." She might have been describing a plant's interest in blooming or something, but I took it as an unconscious comment on my interest in her. That happened after a long hiatus during which I didn't call her.

Another thing that I thought was strange was a time, not a date, when she asked me to listen to her car and see if something was loose in the suspension. We drove around and I could hear the noise, and I thought it might be a deteriorating universal joint going to a wheel. These can fail if the boot is cracked, so I parked the car in a lot and scooted under it to look at the universal joint and to see if it had any free play in the critical direction.
Normally, when a guy demonstrates a high level of car-fixing ability, a woman really warms up to him. Not her. She seemed colder towards me after that than she was before. I think this indicates that she sees my mechanical skills as competition. And being a woman in a man's world, she doesn't need any more of that at home.

Truthfully, at this point, I think her interest in me mainly revolves around the fact that I pay my bills on time.

As for her flirting, you know, she's a single woman living alone and she probably wants some male attention every once in a while. That flirting lasted as long as her mood that day, and hasn't been repeated.

Nope. To paraphrase the Magic 8-Ball, "All signs point to No." I don't think she's interested, I believe that she's demonstrating her decision by her actions, and I firmly believe that persistence in the face of disinterest is a waste of time.

BUT, as I said in my earlier post, I learned a lot from this. LIE's can be relentless in their pursuit of a goal and simultaneously be completely tone-deaf when it comes to people's feelings. I'm like that. But now I better understand that she wants to take the lead in a relationship and wants a guy who is more pliable and who has much less Se than I do, and I can easily accept that perspective and move on to someone who is a better match.

Again, thanks for your thoughts. I'm definitely going to keep your advice on Fi in mind when talking with the next female.