A thread to record random IRL conversations between ESI's and LIE's.
ESI/LIE Conversations
A thread to record random IRL conversations between ESI's and LIE's.
Lol OK then
First one I got:
LIE: A thread to record random IRL conversations between ESI's and LIE's.
ESI: Lol OK then
*LIE likes this*
feel free to add more guys
OK, I've got some time now.
Background:
My company has been working with an automotive supplier for a few months now to add a camera to cars (for reasons beyond this post). Every Monday we meet with the car company's engineering team, coordinated by an ESI on their side. At first, I thought the ESI was kind of a hard ass, because he was not friendly at all, but over the past few months, we have been working more closely and we found we see eye-to-eye on almost everything. We actually work really well together as a team. I provide the vision and general design for the product, and he covers all the parts of making a working model, including a lot that I never thought of. I've asked him out to lunch a couple times (this is a big contract and I don't want anything to go wrong) and, as predicted by Socionics, he and I get along better and better with more exposure. Incidentally, he knows nothing of Socionics.
Last week, I couldn't attend the meeting in person but instead logged into it on-line. The ESI was presiding and said he regretted that I couldn't be there, but was looking forward to my input on the meeting topics.
Before the meeting formally started, someone mentioned that the weather this year was warmer than last year. The ESI agreed, and said "Last year there was snow on the ground. Our hearts needed cleaning." I think he meant to say our walks needed cleaning.
As the meeting progressed and the topic of the wavelength limits of the two-spectral band investigation of the road came up, the ESI said "It's a matter of getting the right edge. Neither one is complete." <this is strangely reminiscent of Duality.
Still later in the meeting, while discussing the coordination between the timing signals from the output and receive circuits, the ESI said "This receiver kind of wants to be master." < I think this is a very Introverted Aggressor thing to say.
He's recently divorced. I'd fix him up with a single female LIE that I know, but she's 32 and he's about 50.
LIE:
Hi, (ESI's name here).
Are you up for some tacos at Tmaz Taqueria in an hour or two? My treat.
ESI:
Please consider learning how to plan ahead a little further.
LIE:
Is that a "No"?
I haven't eaten yet.
ESI:
Or put another way, the chances of me showing up with an hours notice is zero to negative zero.
That is a no
LIE:
How about tomorrow for dinner? The taco place is closed, but Seva is open.
ESI:
You pretty much called me fat, which pretty much earned you a spot on the permanent poop list.
LIE:
What?
You're not fat.
I could not have called you fat because I don't believe you are fat, and I never lie. Not lying makes my life easier.
ESI:
You're the one that wins against the odds. Consider finding another girl who is more physically to your liking.
-Adam: Man, this woman is a hard sell.
It sounds like she was already biased against you. If she liked you, I think she'd adapt a little bit before knowing you, or at least say she was busy, instead of all that nonsense.
In this particular conversation, ESI definitely does not sound like an ESI or Ne-polr. If I had to type this person solely based on this conversation, I would say that this person is IEE. She uses wordy sentences, explains herself by describing things using another form, speaks alternatively, communicates indirectly, refrains from directly saying no and uses soft guilt trip/whip combo(you called me fat, permanent poop list).Originally Posted by Adam Strange
This chick sounds like an idiot ...
I also don't understand how she could have interpreted that as being called fat. maybe I'm the idiot here.. but doesn't mean she isnt 1 too
@myresearch, this is very insightful. The woman VI's like an ESI and I'm pretty sure she is an ESI-Se e6, but I'd call her Avoidant (she's 42 and never been married) and her father is SLI. She has a thing for SLI's (her Daddy is one), but she also showed me a picture of the only guy she ever considered marrying, and he was a clear ILI. I know a few female IEE's, and she's not at all similar to them.
But it is interesting that you said she sounds like an IEE. I imagine that her father has strongly influenced her. And not in a good way.
And, of course, it is also possible that I have mis-typed everyone related to this clusterfuck.
@kingslayer, she was referring to an earlier convo that she and I had. She had asked me to describe my previous GF's, and I said they were all really thin. She has a more normal build, but I didn't say that. I'm sure that I actually didn't say anything at all about her build. I'm assuming that, as @ashlesha said, she had already made up her mind about a guy who was interested in her and was looking for a reason to keep him at arm's length.
Christ sounds like a cunt. Tell her to remove that stick off her ass already
I’ve already given up on her.
When a woman is interested, it doesn’t take her that long to make up her mind.
http://www.bestpuatraining.com/indicators-of-interest
these should help you determine which women to ask out so you don't waste your time or breath stroking the ego of such stuck up idiots that were previously mentioned before.
I in no way advocate "Pick up Artists" but that link has good information about body language indicators of interest from women.
Background:
I first met the above ESI when I saw her working in the yard across the street. (She owns a lawn service company.) I went over to talk to her and after goofing around for about 45 minutes, she suggested going out for “a burger and beer but no sex”. I thought, WTF? But invited her out. She said she was busy for a month or two, but she’d let me know.
In the next two years, we’d sometimes talk when she was working across the street. Sometimes these conversations would last an hour and I found myself really liking her. She seemed to like me, too, but said that I talk too much. She said that a couple times.
She eventually found time to go out, and we got some takeout and headed to a dock on a river in a park. We talked for six hours, then went back to my place, where we talked for another two hours, and then she left. And then she refused to go out with me again. I think she likes me (maybe so much it scares her) but she is super-Avoidant. Which I wish were not the case, but I’m not going to change a lifetime of training before the sun grows dim. She is who she is.
A couple weeks ago, a package was delivered to my house in the rain, but I was in another state and so called her (because she sometimes works in the neighborhood) to see if she would pick up the package so it wouldn’t get soaked, and she happily agreed. (I later picked it up from her customer across the street.)
Today I saw her across the street, so I decided to thank her personally for being willing to save my Fedex package from the rain. She saw me as I crossed the street and I called out “Hi, (her name here)!”
She stopped what she was doing and her body tensed up. I stopped my approach on the tree lawn.
”Thanks for being willing to take my package out of the rain last week.”
”You are welcome.”
The microseconds stretched on and I said nothing. I started to turn away.
”Thanks for keeping it short”, she said.
”Thanks for keeping it short?”, I thought? WTF. ESI’s, masters of layered meanings.
I extended my arms out like glider wings and caught the updrafts back into the street.
This is a pattern i seem to see with "my" esi-ses all the time. I think a good idea is to simply note what they are saying but listen to what your intuition tells you about the whole thing. One of them made me know for sure what she really meant with her "no" because she clearly had a heavy crush on me at this time. I think she would have needed me to take the responsibility off her shoulders and simply pull through. Didn't do it because while she was about perfect for me, she was not in the age range to found a family on with me.I think she likes me (maybe so much it scares her) but she is super-Avoidant.
I do start to think the whole ambiguity thing could be a way to screen for lie traits, it takes a type with 4Dne to figure them out.
Right now I am at a point where i tend to believe that there are two important things when interacting with them:
Trust your gut (intuitive understanding) and -as soon as you have made your interest known-ether pull it through or leave them alone. I've noticed, even though with a small sample size, that the ESI-Ses i was courting in one way or another were always keeping me at arms-lenght, they did not close the distance by themselves but showed when i could (sometimes while saying no) and when i decided for me that this thing is over because i did not get anything back, they reached out for me to keep me interested.
I start to thing that you can, while courtship is on, not take a lot of what they say at face value, a lot of it is regulating the distance and screening, some of it is being cautious because of ne-polr.
Also, i do think, that without a clear sign of "leave me alone" confronting them and being direct can be a good thing. So maybe just ask her why she does not want to meet with you again, tell her that you really liked it and are interested. She may not give you any clear information at all but she will be assured of your feelings and when she cares about you she at least has a perspective of your interests she can't really deny.
Goes from taco->vegan? (Seva, that is what duckduckgo told). Plausible missing link for "calling" her fat. Body issues I assume.
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
I will simplify things:
Her: You talk too much (said multiple times)
You: talks for 8 hours straight when she agrees to go out with you
Her: Does not go out with you again. Thanks you for not talking her ear off when you thanked her.
Conclusion: You talked too much.
Hi, @squark.
For the record, she did plenty of the talking. I found out tons about her family, her friends, her employees, her customers, her daily problems, her problems with past lovers, her car’s weird noises, and her concerns about the future.
She showed me a picture of her ideal guy (a guy married to a friend of hers) and he was a clear ILI. I hope she gets a chance to try life with one of these guys.
Lots of women have issues, body-related or not. The ESI was never fat, but when I saw her yesterday, she had lost ten or so pounds. But her weight was never a problem for me.
When I met my first GF in a factory when I was 25, I had a degree in Astrophysics and she was 22 with a HS education. We fell deeply, amazingly in love, but eventually broke up. She was LSI and went on to get a PhD and became a math professor in a college in Georgia. But her status was never a problem for me.
Last edited by Adam Strange; 10-29-2019 at 02:37 PM.
I don't know how much you actually talked or whatever, @Adam Strange, but I had a hard time parsing your long & detailed post for a reason behind her actions and @squark seemed to have found the pertinent aspects and gotten to it. Ti ftw
they don't talk
@squark, I can easily see what you mean. I have similar problems with Ti-leads. My favorite sister is LII and we typically limit our conversations to ten minutes or so.I wasn't there so idk. In my experiences with Te leads, well, I start zoning out after awhile as they talk and talk. They don't usually notice.
Ever watch a stage show where the performer is interacting with the audience, asking them questions, bringing some on stage and allowing them to say a little about themselves? That's how it can feel talking to some extroverts. They're leading the conversation where they want it to go, and you might be a participant, but it's not your show.
With both of my LSI GF’s, we mostly interacted through doing things together. We had a really hard time planning, and we didn’t discuss philosophy or culture at all.
I work with several LII’s who are incredibly smart, and even when we are discussing the details of business projects, one hour is everyone’s maximum exposure limit.
On the other hand, I’m working with a male ESI and he can’t seem to get enough of me. We’ve had three hour meetings followed by two hour lunches. And on my end, we can go on and on until we’ve completely covered everything.
”vindicates Socionics”
Last edited by Adam Strange; 10-29-2019 at 03:07 PM.
Maybe you're SEI and Ti mobilizing?
previously Megadoodoo
Maybe! Convince me :>Maybe you're SEI and Ti mobilizing?
*sweats*
Can't I just plant a seed?
previously Megadoodoo
Although this was a result of an ESI-LIE conversation, this post could equally well be placed in the “stages of Duality” thread.
Every Monday for work, I and a male ESI (along with many others) have been meeting for 2-3 hours to discuss progress on a project to turn cars into autonomous vehicles.
At first, the ESI seemed pretty stand-offish, but as the weeks went by, he and I found that our working styles meshed very well. He is looking for someone to effortlessly lead the project and rally the troops, and I need someone competent who can cover the practical matters.
After about ten meetings, I would say that he and I have started to look forward to spending time together at these meetings. In other words, we are Dualizing.
Yesterday, while their guys were in the vehicle assembly area setting up the test hardware that our team designed, I took him aside and asked him about his previous job in remote sensing, since my company has an unrelated project of detecting fires from high altitudes.
Now, normally, I keep a shield between me and the work, so that I can maintain objectivity and can disengage if things go pear-shaped, and this fire control project is no exception. It is just another project that may or may not be profitable.
But as he and I were standing there, talking about spectral radiance and photon budgets, I found myself falling into the Real.
Not the removed and objectified world of “just another job”, but the world where things actually matter. To me. Personally. And I realized that a veil had been lifted, and I want that kind of connection.
I can easily see how Duals become more productive when working together.
Damn. It’s too bad I’m not gay. Lol.
So last night I talked to my female LIE friend and asked her how long she has been working with a female ESI? She said, “Sixteen years.”
”And has the relationship gone downhill at all during that time?”, I asked.
”Nope. We get along great. We’re friends, really.”
OK. Damn. Duality or GTFO.
Fi leads, particularly, are the consumate holistic listeners from the standpoint that when they are listening, they are doing so intently with their full attention and whole brain. ESIs listen intently but briefly, because Se prompts them towards action. Se subtypes are more likely to tell you that you talk too much, especially after they "get your point." Lol But that can be good because they want to get things done. Fi subtypes are more inclined to let us chatter away (though they are slower to "move"). And yes, LIEs can talk too damn much but our duals tend not to be entirely put off by this--it’s necessary to have someone we inherently respect tell us to STFU when necessary. Lol
Ti types, god love em, tend to be the worst listeners. They easily detach and retreat into their minds to assess the logic, veracity, accuracy, and relevance of incoming data--it's not personal, just how their brains work. But they are the best to rattle by insisting that they repeat back to you something you've said, especially if you've been talking at length. Lol It makes sense why Fe would appeal to them, because it's more about "communicating" emotional states rather than lengthy fact based rationales.
Last edited by Alonzo; 11-12-2019 at 04:36 PM.
So true. Maters of layered meanings. Do you think they do it on purpose to keep the other thinking about what they said therefor thinking about them? Or do you think they only do it for "educational purposes" as is lots of times the case with ESIs who want to "teach a lesson" to the ones they think deserve to learn it or be punished?
It's not only ESI-Se women who do this. The men do it too! Interesting since the aggressor is supposed to be the one initiating intimate relations, specially if they are the ethical type. But with ESI-Se this cycle of LIE showing interest, them pushing you away/hiding themselves, you pushing, they repeating this behavior, you getting tired of this game, them suddenly starting to show interest, has been very prominent.
The scary point, however, is when they finally start showing interest and giving hope and then for some weird reason suddenly start disappearing with excuses like "i'm busy" and after a few months of you pushing again (starting from the beginning of this vicious cycle), they show no interest in keeping you anymore if you get tired of pushing.
This means that the ESI can get used to you pushing and treat you like an annoying fly if you don't learn to respect yourself and leave when it's time for you to leave.
I hadn't learnt this. Stayed too long. The ESI thought I would stay no matter what demands he enforced on me. That I would stay even if he wanted to have an "open relationship". If he ignored me and lied to me. If he never answered any of my questions, even though they were serious and important ones, because I was "impeaching" him and ruining his "privacy".
I hope it's not so terrible with ESI-Fi.
Maybe it doesn't work with the Se subtype because I am the Te subtype.
All of this in sheer nonsense: first of all, many women use these behaviors to non-romantic purposes, and even if there is romantic or sexual aspects in their behaviors, they could just be testing if your interested, in which case you are being used to flatter their own egos. Secondly, many women will, for whatever reason, not use such non-verbal signs, even when they actually are interested in you. You will, in particular, miss the non-verbal language of your dual!
“I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking
Those look like decent indicators that there's possibly a green light in a broad, ambiguous kinda way but I guess if you're the kind of person to rely on such a list, you're probably the same kind of person to be like, "she stood with her feet pointing in my direction, which is a clear display of her desire to perform fellatio on me!"
Also,,I don't get how Se creatives would be into playing for the long game and gauging implicit behavior cues wrt withholding expressions of interest or displaying hostility to test you,, sounds fuckin complicated and intuitive but I don't know these people. Ive never been able to consciously, purposely play any games, in spite of it seeming like the smart thing to do to ensure commitment and stuff, cuz like, blah, too scary ambiguous, and delayed gratification? Gtfo
LIE: Maybe—
ESI: No.
･ﾟ*✧ 𝓘 𝓌𝒾𝓁𝓁 𝓃𝑜𝓉 𝒶𝒸𝒸𝑒𝓅𝓉 𝒶 𝓁𝒾𝒻𝑒 𝓘 𝒹𝑜 𝓃𝑜𝓉 𝒹𝑒𝓈𝑒𝓇𝓋𝑒 ✧*:･ﾟ
But in all seriousness, I feel that the main purpose of this duality is for ESI to act as a buffer for LIE’s plans (i.e. LIE talks about a plan and if ESI feels -emphasis on the word feel cuz Fi- it’s “No.”) along with their emotional retardation. EIE-LSI works as LSI being a buffer to their strong emotions and weak logic, which also comprises their own plans in bad ways.
･ﾟ*✧ 𝓘 𝓌𝒾𝓁𝓁 𝓃𝑜𝓉 𝒶𝒸𝒸𝑒𝓅𝓉 𝒶 𝓁𝒾𝒻𝑒 𝓘 𝒹𝑜 𝓃𝑜𝓉 𝒹𝑒𝓈𝑒𝓇𝓋𝑒 ✧*:･ﾟ
lol Dat Ne PoLR, which is why in my dealings with ESIs I'd avoid leading with anything that might denote uncertainty as opposed to a strong, confident likelihood (Ni), because Ni would've already integrated or cut down on the Ne possibilities in order to arrive at an optimal (read: the best) singular idea/vision/path/whatever--this is a major factor that distinguishes the more compatible LIE from IEE (supervisor) or ILE(conflictor), who would mercilessly beat the ESI over the head with too many "random" ass potentialities.
Yeah, I agree. Ne PoLR can be a bitch sometimes. I do have a lot of ideas but the way I operate is that I have a MAIN goal. Then if that doesn’t work out, I have backups, and I choose the best backup out of that, and so on. Which I find Ne PoLR will be in agreeable that way.
･ﾟ*✧ 𝓘 𝓌𝒾𝓁𝓁 𝓃𝑜𝓉 𝒶𝒸𝒸𝑒𝓅𝓉 𝒶 𝓁𝒾𝒻𝑒 𝓘 𝒹𝑜 𝓃𝑜𝓉 𝒹𝑒𝓈𝑒𝓇𝓋𝑒 ✧*:･ﾟ
A couple of weeks ago, I met a female ESI in a bank. (Of course in a bank. She’s the third or fourth ESI I’ve met in a bank.)
We got to talking and I told her that I have a degree in Astrophysics, but I prefer making money. She told me that she has a degree in Physics and in Library Science, and I thought, “Amazing. I need to learn more about her.”
I asked, “If you have a degree in Physics, why are you working as a teller in a bank?”
She replied, “I’m from Bangladesh” -she actually looks a lot like my Czech grandmother – those Aryans got around – “but my husband and I are now divorced and I needed a job to take care of my son.” OK, that makes sense. No surprise that she chose Banking. Close to money, making certain that no one makes a mistake or does the wrong thing, checking and double-checking. ESI skills, all.
I assumed that she might want to look for a partner at some point and thought she should look for a dual, so I told her that she should read about ISFj’s by an author named Stratiyevskaya, and I wrote that down for her. I also told her that there might be a type of guy who is best for her, and I wrote down ENTj and told her to do an internet search on those names. I also warned her that ENTj's can be assholes. Just part of the "Truth in Lending" laws.
Today, I was back at the bank and I asked her if she had had a chance to look up any of those terms. She said she did, and they looked interesting, but she didn’t see how she could determine which type is which. I told her that people of each type look similar to each other, and that’s how I could tell that she was an ISFj.
She said “No. Everyone is different. You can’t tell how a person is on the inside by looking at them.”
“I used to believe that, too. But I’ve been studying this for four years, and I’m pretty sure I can tell a person’s type by looking at them. I used to believe that every person was a special snowflake, and no two were alike. But no, there are only sixteen people. And they all share characteristics. For example, here is something that you would never tell someone, and yet is true about people of your type. You divide people into two categories; the Good, and the Bad. And once you decide that someone is Bad, they can never get back into the Good category.”
She laughed and brushed back her hair. “Well, naturally. You have to watch out for some people. If they lie to me, one lie, then that is enough. You can never trust a person like that.” She sticks one finger in the air and squints at me, wondering if I’m one of those people who can’t be trusted. Man, what a look. Lol.
“Just one lie?”
“Well, maybe two. I value the truth! But everyone is like that. Don’t you think so?”
And so far, she is, point-by-point, reciting the strict ESI party line.
“No,” I replied. “I’m not like that. I often assume that if a person lies to me, they are just making a mistake, or that the lie is not serious.”
“You can get into a lot of trouble if you believe that.”
“Uh, yes, that is possible.” I laughed inside. This woman is a true ESI.
“Let me tell you how I can tell if a person is one of your type”, I said. “I’m on a dating site, and your type all say that “Family is important” to them. Also, they all want to travel, but they usually don’t travel.”
“I’ve traveled a lot!" she countered. "I traveled so much for my business that…Do you know Southwest? They have a deal where if you fly more than 100 times in one year, the next year, you get free companion travel. I got that. I traveled so much that I got that." She's obviously really proud of this, like she closed a great deal. I'm thinking, that airline could have made that deal a lot better.
Then, "Now I’m bored of traveling.”
“Why did you stop?"
“My son is still in school, and his grades were at the bottom of the class. When I decided to stay home with him, his grades went to the top. It was a very good decision, to stay home. I don’t regret it. Family is the most important thing in the world, more important than money.”
I’m thinking that I should just put a recorder on the table and transcribe what she says to the ESI page on the16types.com.
“So you took a job in this bank?”
“Yes. It is easy work, and I have time after work to spend with my son when he gets out of school. Maybe I’ll do something else soon. He is about to graduate from high school, and he tells me that he will be independent soon. So soon, it will be my time.”
“What did you do that made you travel so much?”, I asked. I’m wondering about that travel business. It is so uncharacteristic of ESI’s to travel a lot.
“I had my own business. It was very good. I was selling Women’s Fashions.” And my jaw figuratively dropped to the floor. Of course Women’s fashions. An Artist, with herself as the artwork. I should have known.
Only sixteen people, folks.
Last edited by Adam Strange; 12-28-2019 at 12:53 AM.
First 30 seconds (left is LIE, right is ESI)
An ESI whom I like but consider to be a bit selfish: " Do you think I am selfish?"
Me: "well if you are selfish and I tell you that you are, you wouldn't take my word as fact and will hate me for thinking you are and if I say no you aren't it would boost your ego.
If you aren't selfish and I tell you that you are, not only is that unfair but also shows my inability to make judgements and would also make you dislike me as a result of which will not take me seriously. If I tell you no you are not and you really are not, since you are asking this question now, you will think I'm lying. So I don't really know how to answer that question."
ESI: "So you think that I'm selfish!"
Me: "How do you define selfishness?"
ESI: "You think too much"
Adam! This is absolutely amazing! Her replies are exactly the same as the replies I got from an ESI the first time I seriously told him about socionics (had mentioned it multiple times before but just as advertisement planning for a right moment to finally tell it in the future)
Will post more on that later!
BTW do you think the woman was Se subtype or Fi?
Also, my first infatuation was with an ESI-Fi who worked at a bank!
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