ESI/LIE Conversations

[Rebelondeck]

Hmm. What does "they aren't critical in a dynamic sense" mean? My EII friend doesn't seem to have to think too hard before she utters a pronouncement, haha. I bite my tongue a lot more and wouldn't say I'm able to offer criticism on the fly. ILI often can, yes, if they actually have the desire to engage.

Ijs don't think well on their feet. They may appear so if they've researched and are fully up to speed on a subject but throwing in something from left field will often cause them to say something that amounts to "I'll get back to you" or "la, la, la, I can't hear you"; some will try to fake it but they don't do well at that either. However, EIIs in their wheelhouse with prepared sermons can be really preachy and formidable. Ips operate the best on their feet, faking it and rolling with the punches but they can have tunnel vision with very narrow interests and perspectives. IEIs tend to not offer opinions but they certainly have them in spades and will voice them in endless chatter when in safe environments; EIIs tend to have much broader perspectives and are usually not as sensitive to their immediate environments.

a.k.a. I/O

[Adam Strange]

A strange thing happened with my ESI neighbor and I can’t quite figure it out.

He and I have been neighbors for about five years. We don’t talk much, but he’s an OK guy. When he first bought the place, it was just him and his (ESI, I think) daughter. Last year he was going to get married and sell the place and move in with his new wife, but she called it off. He has seemed kind of depressed since then but hasn’t really said anything about it. I have been sympathetic but not to the point of telling him he needs to find a female LIE. I mean, why tell him that his ideal match is almost nonexistent?

Anyway, I had some work done on my property today and one of the machines had to drive onto his property. I talked to him first about this and he seemed wary but willing to let them do that. So they did. I was there while the work was being done and the workers were really careful but I couldn’t watch everything all the time.

This evening he sent me a picture of his boat. The hitch had been bumped and knocked off of its supporting block. He texted “Your guys hit my boat. I’ll check for damage in the morning.”
I immediately wrote back and apologized and said I’d pay for any damages.
But looking at the picture, it looks like nothing. I mean, the workers got a lot accomplished but also managed to break an electrical junction box on my property and although that set me back I didn’t whine about it. Ninety-nine percent of what they did was great.

So I don’t mind paying for any damages to his boat. I should, if there are any. But his reaction surprised me. Today set me back about $3k and it was nothing. His boat gets bumped and he’s complaining. To me, this seems petty and an overreaction, but maybe I’m wrong. Now I’m trying to understand this.

He and I are Duals, I’m pretty sure. We get along better than most people. Is he feeling neglected in his life? Does he need attention from someone who is basically on his side? Does the bumping of his boat represent some kind of transgression onto his domain? Do Aggressor ESI’s hate it when someone steps on their toes? What is the essence of what is going on here?

Our properties have a few hundred yards in common and the dividing line is not clear everywhere. About a year after buying the place, he dropped what might be a tree trunk but looks like a telephone pole somewhere near the dividing line. I thought “You don’t have to do that, bro. It just makes mowing harder.” But I’ve never said anything. It doesn’t exactly hurt me.
Do ESI’s take an essentially defensive view towards the world? And do they try to defend against transgressions? Is that what I’m seeing? Because my approach to the world is “Do stuff, don’t be mean, if I break things in the process, pay for them, don’t get bent out of shape, and move on.”

[nanashi]

A strange thing happened with my ESI neighbor and I can’t quite figure it out.

He and I have been neighbors for about five years. We don’t talk much, but he’s an OK guy. When he first bought the place, it was just him and his (ESI, I think) daughter. Last year he was going to get married and sell the place and move in with his new wife, but she called it off. He has seemed kind of depressed since then but hasn’t really said anything about it. I have been sympathetic but not to the point of telling him he needs to find a female LIE. I mean, why tell him that his ideal match is almost nonexistent?

Anyway, I had some work done on my property today and one of the machines had to drive onto his property. I talked to him first about this and he seemed wary but willing to let them do that. So they did. I was there while the work was being done and the workers were really careful but I couldn’t watch everything all the time.

This evening he sent me a picture of his boat. The hitch had been bumped and knocked off of its supporting block. He texted “Your guys hit my boat. I’ll check for damage in the morning.”
I immediately wrote back and apologized and said I’d pay for any damages.
But looking at the picture, it looks like nothing. I mean, the workers got a lot accomplished but also managed to break an electrical junction box on my property and although that set me back I didn’t whine about it. Ninety-nine percent of what they did was great.

So I don’t mind paying for any damages to his boat. I should, if there are any. But his reaction surprised me. Today set me back about $3k and it was nothing. His boat gets bumped and he’s complaining. To me, this seems petty and an overreaction, but maybe I’m wrong. Now I’m trying to understand this.

He and I are Duals, I’m pretty sure. We get along better than most people. Is he feeling neglected in his life? Does he need attention from someone who is basically on his side? Does the bumping of his boat represent some kind of transgression onto his domain? Do Aggressor ESI’s hate it when someone steps on their toes? What is the essence of what is going on here?

Our properties have a few hundred yards in common and the dividing line is not clear everywhere. About a year after buying the place, he dropped what might be a tree trunk but looks like a telephone pole somewhere near the dividing line. I thought “You don’t have to do that, bro. It just makes mowing harder.” But I’ve never said anything. It doesn’t exactly hurt me.
Do ESI’s take an essentially defensive view towards the world? And do they try to defend against transgressions? Is that what I’m seeing? Because my approach to the world is “Do stuff, don’t be mean, if I break things in the process, pay for them, don’t get bent out of shape, and move on.”

In my experience it's just that relationships and boundaries and honor mean a lot to them, and saying something like, "I am so happy you told me about this because it matters to me that your boat was bumped." is a good idea.

It's more just like making you aware of a contact that may have done something.. He opened up his property to your contractors. It's a vulnerability, etc. He may just be checking in, etc. Doesn't mean anything is wrong.

[Rebelondeck]

@Adam Strange ESIs don't usually like their space encroached upon or violated in any way. They may allow it but not really like it and normally they'll respect the space of others in the same way that they want their space to be treated. Ijs, in general, tend to be like this - islands unto themselves. They seem to desire complete autonomy in their space and will allow you yours so long as you don't cross the boundary. The behaviour seems to be linked more to self determination than possessiveness although sometimes they make it hard to distinguish. Ejs tend to be mentally intrusive so can be good stimulation for Ijs; however, even duals shouldn't step on Ij blue suede shoes.

a.k.a. I/O

[Adam Strange]

@Adam Strange ESIs don't usually like their space encroached upon or violated in any way. They may allow it but not really like it and normally they'll respect the space of others in the same way that they want their space to be treated. Ijs, in general, tend to be like this - islands unto themselves. They seem to desire complete autonomy in their space and will allow you yours so long as you don't cross the boundary. The behaviour seems to be linked more to self determination than possessiveness although sometimes they make it hard to distinguish. Ejs tend to be mentally intrusive so can be good stimulation for Ijs; however, even duals shouldn't step on Ij blue suede shoes.

a.k.a. I/O

You know, this makes closing the distance with my Duals very challenging.

I actually think my ESI neighbor is an e6, not counterphobic. A guy driven by fears and doubts. He watched me interacting with a bunch of workmen and I told him that one of the guys in particular was a great worker, and now he's saying "Your guys bumped my boat and what are you going to do about it?", which really means "Am I still important to you? What are you going to do about this?"

ESI's come in three flavors; e4, e6, and e9. I'm most attracted to the e6's, but man, they can be pains sometimes with their constant running away and constant doubts.

I just bought another artwork from an e6w7 counter-phobic ESI-Se Artist whose work I like a lot, and she was talking about a previous work that she'd done, one of her best, and she told me that some offhand remark I'd made about colors indicated to her that I really didn't like the piece. Girl, if I didn't like it, I wouldn't buy it. WTF?

I find that my e8-ness can easily assuage her e6 fears, and no matter how panicky she is when we meet, she calms right down after talking with me. I've been hoping that she would calm down enough to stick around. I'm starting to think that this might never happen.

[Northstar]

You know, this makes closing the distance with my Duals very challenging.

I actually think my ESI neighbor is an e6, not counterphobic. A guy driven by fears and doubts. He watched me interacting with a bunch of workmen and I told him that one of the guys in particular was a great worker, and now he's saying "Your guys bumped my boat and what are you going to do about it?", which really means "Am I still important to you? What are you going to do about this?"

ESI's come in three flavors; e4, e6, and e9. I'm most attracted to the e6's, but man, they can be pains sometimes with their constant running away and constant doubts.

I just bought another artwork from an e6w7 counter-phobic ESI-Se Artist whose work I like a lot, and she was talking about a previous work that she'd done, one of her best, and she told me that some offhand remark I'd made about colors indicated to her that I really didn't like the piece. Girl, if I didn't like it, I wouldn't buy it. WTF?

I find that my e8-ness can easily assuage her e6 fears, and no matter how panicky she is when we meet, she calms right down after talking with me. I've been hoping that she would calm down enough to stick around. I'm starting to think that this might never happen.

Honestly, sounds like a total pain in the ass. Why do you torture yourself with such people? e2 are great, but I'd take e4 or e9 over e6 any day. I think 1 and 6 would be least interesting for me.

[Adam Strange]

Honestly, sounds like a total pain in the ass. Why do you torture yourself with such people? e2 are great, but I'd take e4 or e9 over e6 any day. I think 1 and 6 would be least interesting for me.

Good question, @Northstar. Aside from the fact that the e6 ESI Artist is physically beautiful, I was struck by how easily my e8-ness (stable, confident energy) stabilizes her e6-ness (fear and doubt). It's the same as where Duals help each other naturally just by being themselves.

I'm just having a problem with it as a steady diet.

This dissonance might just be the gears grinding in the early parts of a relationship. The LSI was also an e6, but less obviously fearful. She once asked me "Do you like me?". Lol, of all the questions she could have asked, that was about the easiest to answer.

I was married to an SLI e1. Never again. And the e4's that I've met have mostly been the IEI variety, and entirely dismissable. I think my long term male ESI friends have been e9's. But they can seem safe and boring.

IDK. I need more data.

I knew an engineer in Ford Advanced Vehicles who told me that Ford had done a decades long study to try to discover what made a car "fun to drive". Their conclusions were that the car had to feel somewhat unstable.
I think the same applies to GF's.

Now whether that is what you want for long term use or not, that is a question that only the driver can determine. All of my Mercedes have been as exciting to drive as sitting on my couch, and this is by design, because *German voice* "It is not efficient to arrive at your destination exhausted from too much excitement."

[nanashi]

Good question, @Northstar. Aside from the fact that the e6 ESI Artist is physically beautiful, I was struck by how easily my e8-ness (stable, confident energy) stabilizes her e6-ness (fear and doubt). It's the same as where Duals help each other naturally just by being themselves.

I'm just having a problem with it as a steady diet.

This dissonance might just be the gears grinding in the early parts of a relationship. The LSI was also an e6, but less obviously fearful. She once asked me "Do you like me?". Lol, of all the questions she could have asked, that was about the easiest to answer.

I was married to an SLI e1. Never again. And the e4's that I've met have mostly been the IEI variety, and entirely dismissable. I think my long term male ESI friends have been e9's. But they can seem safe and boring.

IDK. I need more data.

I knew an engineer in Ford Advanced Vehicles who told me that Ford had done a decades long study to try to discover what made a car "fun to drive". Their conclusions were that the car had to feel somewhat unstable.
I think the same applies to GF's.

Now whether that is what you want for long term use or not, that is a question that only the driver can determine. All of my Mercedes have been as exciting to drive as sitting on my couch, and this is by design, because *German voice* "It is not efficient to arrive at your destination exhausted from too much excitement."

I've been reading about that in ENTJ and Enneagram 7 articles...and then recognizing it in my desires about a partner. I grew up with an enneagram 4 and have several enneagram 4s and 6s in my life....and a few sevens. I think I get bored without some intense stuff going on. I kinda like being needed (not like by a drug addict, but like someone who's kinda sensitive and confides in me). I love that feeling.

[Rebelondeck]

...... A guy driven by fears and doubts. .......which really means "Am I still important to you?

.......and she told me that some offhand remark I'd made about colors indicated to her that I really didn't like the piece.......panicky.......

I wouldn't attribute the themes in the first line above to ESIs more than some other types; there must be other factors. They don't usually look to others for validation like Ips and Ejs might do.

The themes in the second line can be very much ESI because they are sensitive to criticism (mostly for self-improvement) and are often hesitant to start something.

a.k.a. I/O

[timber]

^ this is the truth.

[Adam Strange]

^ this is the truth.

Timber, you and my neighbor are a lot alike.

[Adam Strange]

My ESI neighbor was making a racket mowing his lawn, so I walked over and apologized in person for the fact that my workmen had bumped his boat.

He said that he looked at it very carefully and there was no damage, and he appreciated the fact that I offered to pay for any damages (and when he said this, he was watching my face very intently to see if I was lying or if I really meant it - Lol) and I should forget it. He said “I’m past that now.”

I said, “No, you shouldn’t be “past it”. You should be happy and satisfied about it.”

”Well, I am. There was no damage, so forget about it. I have.”

I then asked him about his plans for the future. I had heard he was going to get married but then that changed.

”I’m not going to move any time soon.”, he said, misinterpreting my question. “And I called it off with that girl. There was something just not right about the whole relationship. She could be very critical at times, and I just didn’t want to live with that.”

”You know, I’ve said before that you and I are Duals.”

”Yeah, you mentioned something about that.” He looked embarrassed, as if he found himself talking to someone he liked who had just revealed that he was crazy.

”Well, males of my type are fairly rare. But females of my type are almost nonexistent. Maybe one percent of the population. One of the good things about us as Duals is that we kind of live in a “no criticism” zone. But to find one, you have to know what you’re looking for. Here. Let me show you pictures of a couple of females who are your Duals. I’ve got them on my phone, if you’ve got a minute.”

”I’ve got about one minute, then I have to get back to cutting this lawn...”

”Here’s one”, I said, showing him a picture of a dark haired beauty whom I met at a science fair. She was smiling with her logic showing in the first picture, and then was looking slightly impatient in the second picture.
”See how logical she looks? And she’s not that friendly. Your Duals are not that friendly, compared to most women.”

I then showed him a picture of another female LIE, a woman I’ve known for eight years. “See? She looks like a business hard-ass in the first picture but at least she’s looking neutral and all business. Here in the second picture she’s looking pissed off because she doesn’t like having her picture taken, not even by me.”

My ESI neighbor said, “Those women look almost exactly alike.”

”Exactly!”, I said. “You can identify them visually if you know what you are looking for. That’s why I showed you these pictures.”

”Well, I have a new GF that lives fifteen miles from here and she’s pretty good. We’ll see how that goes.”

”Hopefully, it will be great.”

”OK, I’ve gotta finish the lawn.”

”Talk to you later. Good luck.”

”See you.”

[Northstar]

”Yeah, you mentioned something about that.” He looked embarrassed, as if he found himself talking to someone he liked who had just revealed that he was crazy.

He's probably thinking you're crazy or at least weird. Can't think of a more closed-minded type than ESI.

[Adam Strange]

He's probably thinking you're crazy or at least weird. Can't think of a more closed-minded type than ESI.

No doubt. But I have a secret weapon in the relationship. I’m his Dual. He can’t help liking me. He doesn’t even know why he likes me. He just feels it. Lol.

All I have to do is be myself, show that I care about his feelings a bit (but only a bit. I’m not great at this, and if the theory holds, he expects exactly this retarded level of response) and we should be good.

One of the reasons he gave for breaking it off with his previous GF was she started lying to him. Personally, I find it impossible to lie. Except by omission. I can mislead by omission. Weirdly enough, my LSI ex-GF also thought that lying was a deal breaker. She was Mirage, which is half-Dual and half Extinguishment. Evidently the ‘no lying’ thing is 3D Se and 2D Ni.

I met his daughter when I dropped off a check for him for the electric bill (it’s a long story). I told him I think that she and he have the same personality types.

He said, “Maybe.”

I said, “Yeah, you can see it in her face. She has this kind of soft look. Not logical. Not that she doesn’t think. She thinks all the time. But what she’s thinking about...” I pointed accusingly at his house and squinted, to imitate her look “....is, “Is this guy doing the right thing?””.

He burst out laughing and nodded.

[Adam Strange]

One other thing about my ESI neighbor. I was telling him a story about the female ESI I dated. The one who, twenty minutes after meeting her, told me “We should go out sometime for a burger and a beer, but no sex.”

Which absolutely floored me. I mean, who says that? It was so weird that I ran it past an ESI buddy I‘ve known for thirty years. He said, “Yeah. The sex is the next day.”

I thought, That’s interesting. That’s actually astounding. I would never have thought that.

So I told the same story to my ESI neighbor. He laughed and said “Yeah, the sex is the next day.”

What do you know? There are only sixteen people.

*EDIT*
Regarding that ESI who went out with me once and refuses to go out again, I know she likes me. She was flirting with me in phone texts. But she refuses to go out. Maybe she thinks the second date has required sex? And she doesn’t want to get involved with me?
IDK. It’s a puzzle.

[nanashi]

One other thing about my ESI neighbor. I was telling him a story about the female ESI I dated. The one who, twenty minutes after meeting her, told me “We should go out sometime for a burger and a beer, but no sex.”

Which absolutely floored me. I mean, who says that? It was so weird that I ran it past an ESI buddy I‘ve known for thirty years. He said, “Yeah. The sex is the next day.”

I thought, That’s interesting. That’s actually astounding. I would never have thought that.

So I told the same story to my ESI neighbor. He laughed and said “Yeah, the sex is the next day.”

What do you know? There are only sixteen people.

*EDIT*
Regarding that ESI who went out with me once and refuses to go out again, I know she likes me. She was flirting with me in phone texts. But she refuses to go out. Maybe she thinks the second date has required sex? And she doesn’t want to get involved with me?
IDK. It’s a puzzle.

Maybe tell the isfj you're overworking and need to relax and have more in your life than work. Make it about your trying to not be a workaholic. Then just act like a stumped Type A toddler (which, let's be honest, is what we entjs are in human relationships ), and kinda stare off in a planning but stuck Ni way, and.... they organize your social outing. Works for me.

[Adam Strange]

Female ESI-Se to male LIE-Te: "You should study buddhism."

Male LIE-Te to Female ESI-Se: "Why? My ex took me to a Buddhist temple and we spent weeks learning to meditate. I was bored out of my mind. We were sitting for hours on pillows in the dark, surrounded by candles, and I almost went nuts. There were a million productive things I could have been doing but wasn't. I don't have an internal dialogue. There's no me inside me. It's all just what you see. Except when the little plant I was growing got murdered by those fucking rodents. That was bad. I'm gonna kill those bastards. But aside from that, there's nothing. So why should I try to meditate? I don't get it."

Female ESI-Se to male LIE-Te: "It would make you sympathetic to other people's feelings and less of an asshole."

Great. Just great.

[Kalinoche buenanoche]

@Adam Strange next time you see her just tell her you are special. no context needed. it works.

[Adam Strange]

@Adam Strange next time you see her just tell her you are special. no context needed. it works.

"I'm special"? This really works? Seems incomprehensible, but OK, I'll take your word for it. I'll try it.

I have almost zero expectations of anything "working" with this woman. She's about 44, never been married, her Imago is guys like her SLI father (who are always a day late, a mile away, & passive aggressive) and she says she has narcissistic injury and she's happy being by herself. She's known me for about four years and is not interested. The odds of her having any BF, much less me, are about the same as that egg that fell off the table jumping back up and reassembling. However, I'll tell her that I'm special next time I talk to her.

Thanks for the advice. I'm always ready to try new things.

[Kalinoche buenanoche]

"I'm special"? This really works? Seems incomprehensible, but OK, I'll take your word for it. I'll try it.

I have almost zero expectations of anything "working" with this woman. She's about 44, never been married, her Imago is guys like her SLI father (who are always a day late, a mile away, & passive aggressive) and she says she has narcissistic injury and she's happy being by herself. She's known me for about four years and is not interested. The odds of her having any BF, much less me, are about the same as that egg that fell the table jumping back up and reassembling. However, I'll tell her that I'm special next time I talk to her.

Thanks for the advice. I'm always ready to try new things.

i changed my mind. don't tell her you are special.

[Adam Strange]

i changed my mind. don't tell her you are special.

OK, I won't.

In truth, I'm not that special, anyway, and I think it's best to stick with the truth. The only thing I have going is that I'm LIE and she's ESI, and everything else is a train wreck.

I'll tell you what my problem is. I missed the boat a long time ago. And now that I've figured out my destination, the docks are empty.

[Ave]

Female ESI-Se to male LIE-Te: "You should study buddhism."

Male LIE-Te to Female ESI-Se: "Why? My ex took me to a Buddhist temple and we spent weeks learning to meditate. I was bored out of my mind. We were sitting for hours on pillows in the dark, surrounded by candles, and I almost went nuts. There were a million productive things I could have been doing but wasn't. I don't have an internal dialogue. There's no me inside me. It's all just what you see. Except when the little plant I was growing got murdered by those fucking rodents. That was bad. I'm gonna kill those bastards. But aside from that, there's nothing. So why should I try to meditate? I don't get it."

Female ESI-Se to male LIE-Te: "It would make you sympathetic to other people's feelings and less of an asshole."

Great. Just great.

Well, she totally sounds sympathetic to other people's feelings...

[Kalinoche buenanoche]

@Adam Strange, some thoughts on the supposed lack of internal dialogue: Do you have second-order thoughts/underlying beliefs when you talk to her? E.g. ''if I say this bit and this bit, she will get it''. IMO this is internal dialogue.

[Adam Strange]

@Adam Strange, some thoughts on the supposed lack of internal dialogue: Do you have second-order thoughts/underlying beliefs when you talk to her? E.g. ''if I say this bit and this bit, she will get it''. IMO this is internal dialogue.

“placeholder until I can get back to this.”

[Adam Strange]

I was texting with this female ESI on a dating site to find out more about her. She went through a bitter divorce and was devastated when her husband, who married her right after she got her nursing degree, told her that he had never liked her and was leaving her for a younger woman. Harsh.

In an attempt to get her to see her situation from a larger perspective and to get her to let go of her feeling of being the victim of an exploiter (thanks, Strat!), I asked her what she missed most about her ex.

I know what a 22 yo would say, but this woman is a bit older.

She said, “He mowed the lawn.” Lol.

I told her I couldn't help her with that. Mowing lawns is a waste of my time, and I try to hire that out.

[nanashi]

I was texting with this female ESI on a dating site to find out more about her. She went through a bitter divorce and was devastated when her husband, who married her right after she got her nursing degree, told her that he had never liked her and was leaving her for a younger woman. Harsh.

In an attempt to get her to see her situation from a larger perspective and to get her to let go of her feeling of being the victim of an exploiter (thanks, Strat!), I asked her what she missed most about her ex.

I know what a 22 yo would say, but this woman is a bit older.

She said, “He mowed the lawn.” Lol.

I told her I couldn't help her with that. Mowing lawns is a waste of my time, and I try to hire that out.

but that's more about what was nice in their dynamic, not what she thinks is ideal necessarily

[Adam Strange]

but that's more about what was nice in their dynamic, not what she thinks is ideal necessarily

Yeah, if the guy never really liked her and just exploited her, then I seriously doubt that they were having an ideal relationship dynamic. Some people take a wrong turn from childhood misdirection, get lost in dark lands, and never realize it.

After I started talking to her, she changed her self-summary on the dating site from something like "Want to go on a road trip" to

Never apologize for being yourself.
There's something amazing about people who are freely themselves.
Looking for communication, sharing values, trust and honesty, humor, friendship and emotional intelligence.

Lol. Duality. Accept no substitutes.

Now if only she didn't live two and a half hours away.

[nanashi]

Yeah, if the guy never really liked her and just exploited her, then I seriously doubt that they were having an ideal relationship dynamic. Some people take a wrong turn from childhood misdirection, get lost in dark lands, and never realize it.

After I started talking to her, she changed her self-summary on the dating site from something like "Want to go on a road trip" to

Never apologize for being yourself.
There's something amazing about people who are freely themselves.
Looking for communication, sharing values, trust and honesty, humor, friendship and emotional intelligence.

Lol. Duality. Accept no substitutes.

Now if only she didn't live two and a half hours away.

i date across the ocean or across the hallway.
2.5 hours is not a big constraint. you can handle it

[Adam Strange]

A few years ago, I met an ESI-Se who was working on the lawn of the house across the street. She owns a lawn care company and was directing her employees in the proper use of chain saws. I went over to talk to her, and after ten or twenty minutes of me being me, she said that we should "go out for a burger and a beer but no sex" some time. I was floored at her directness, and agreed.
I got her number and called her repeatedly and she finally agreed to go out. We had a great time and talked for eight hours without getting tired of each other, and then she refused to go out with me again.
I've repeatedly asked her out, and she has repeatedly refused. Which sucks, because I like her. She's very similar to the ESI-Se that my ILI-Te buddy married.

I recently got Gulenko's book about DCNH and read the descriptions of the ESI DCNH types. I'd call this woman a D type, given the fact that she owns her company. I'd also give the ESI wife of my ILI buddy a D designation, because she runs a part of the library system in their town.

Gulenko said that the ESI D type rules the household and is a good provider for the family. This implies that the husband is not such a great provider, and I know a number of LIE's who don't actually make much money. I then recalled that, near the end of my date with the ESI-Se, when she and I had been talking in my house for hours, the subject of our respective levels of wealth came up (obliquely, very obliquely), and I frankly admitted that I had three houses to her one.
That was strike one. She probably feels that she needs to control the home and the marriage, and she fears that she might not be able to do that with me.

Then, I kept calling her for another date. This was strike two.
She always refused. I've read conflicting things about ESI's. Some writers say that they are Aggressors and will ask a guy out and they hate it when a guy chases them. Others say that ESI's will never make the first move. The truth of the matter is that it probably depends on subtypes, or possibly DCNH, and I suspect that the ESI-Se or D-type is going to be the one who chases.
To verify this, I called my ILI-Te buddy and asked him if he had asked his ESI-Se D-type wife out first, or if she was the one who suggested everything. He told me that she did the asking. He went on to say that he really hadn't had much experience with women prior to her (think, 40 year-old virgin), so he wasn't exactly aggressive.
Lol. To say the least. Nor is he earning very much money. He gets a lot of money from his wealthy father, so her library income probably dominates the home finances. She probably picked up on that in an instant.

When the ESI-Se and I were out on a date, she and I were talking about our ideas of a perfect mate. She showed me a picture of a (married) friend of hers. The guy was a dweebish ILI.
In any case, it is clear to me that she wants to do the asking and her partner needs to be the passive one. Well, I'm not like that. So that is definitely strike two.

Then, more recently, after I had resignedly placed her in the friend zone and was moving on to dating other women but was still thinking about her, she texted me out of the blue and started flirting. So I asked her out for a date again and again she refused. She said she only wants a business relationship with me.
I'll chalk this up to her not seeing me as the guy she wants to get closer to, but not wishing to lose a potential business resource, either.
Strike three. Game over.

But this is good. I've learned something about myself and about ESI-Se D-types. I've learned that they probably won't be compatible with me.
Damn, I'm glad that most people instinctively know what they want. I, myself, have to puzzle it out from clues.

This also implies that, while I fit much of Gulenko's description of the LIE Normalizing type, I'm at heart a D-type myself.

[Aramas]

A few years ago, I met an ESI-Se who was working on the lawn of the house across the street. She owns a lawn care company and was directing her employees in the proper use of chain saws. I went over to talk to her, and after ten or twenty minutes of me being me, she said that we should "go out for a burger and a beer but no sex" some time. I was floored at her directness, and agreed.
I got her number and called her repeatedly and she finally agreed to go out. We had a great time and talked for eight hours without getting tired of each other, and then she refused to go out with me again.
I've repeatedly asked her out, and she has repeatedly refused. Which sucks, because I like her. She's very similar to the ESI-Se that my ILI-Te buddy married.

I recently got Gulenko's book about DCNH and read the descriptions of the ESI DCNH types. I'd call this woman a D type, given the fact that she owns her company. I'd also give the ESI wife of my ILI buddy a D designation, because she runs a part of the library system in their town.

Gulenko said that the ESI D type rules the household and is a good provider for the family. This implies that the husband is not such a great provider, and I know a number of LIE's who don't actually make much money. I then recalled that, near the end of my date with the ESI-Se, when she and I had been talking in my house for hours, the subject of our respective levels of wealth came up (obliquely, very obliquely), and I frankly admitted that I had three houses to her one.
That was strike one. She probably feels that she needs to control the home and the marriage, and she fears that she might not be able to do that with me.

Then, I kept calling her for another date. This was strike two.
She always refused. I've read conflicting things about ESI's. Some writers say that they are Aggressors and will ask a guy out and they hate it when a guy chases them. Others say that ESI's will never make the first move. The truth of the matter is that it probably depends on subtypes, or possibly DCNH, and I suspect that the ESI-Se or D-type is going to be the one who chases.
To verify this, I called my ILI-Te buddy and asked him if he had asked his ESI-Se D-type wife out first, or if she was the one who suggested everything. He told me that she did the asking. He went on to say that he really hadn't had much experience with women prior to her (think, 40 year-old virgin), so he wasn't exactly aggressive.
Lol. To say the least. Nor is he earning very much money. He gets a lot of money from his wealthy father, so her library income probably dominates the home finances. She probably picked up on that in an instant.

When the ESI-Se and I were out on a date, she and I were talking about our ideas of a perfect mate. She showed me a picture of a (married) friend of hers. The guy was a dweebish ILI.
In any case, it is clear to me that she wants to do the asking and her partner needs to be the passive one. Well, I'm not like that. So that is definitely strike two.

Then, more recently, after I had resignedly placed her in the friend zone and was moving on to dating other women but was still thinking about her, she texted me out of the blue and started flirting. So I asked her out for a date again and again she refused. She said she only wants a business relationship with me.
I'll chalk this up to her not seeing me as the guy she wants to get closer to, but not wishing to lose a potential business resource, either.
Strike three. Game over.

But this is good. I've learned something about myself and about ESI-Se D-types. I've learned that they probably won't be compatible with me.
Damn, I'm glad that most people instinctively know what they want. I, myself, have to puzzle it out from clues.

This also implies that, while I fit much of Gulenko's description of the LIE Normalizing type, I'm at heart a D-type myself.

Three houses would be good if you ever wanted some space. Please tell me though they aren't all in the same city. I feel like if you have multiple homes they should be in different regions.

[Adam Strange]

Three houses would be good if you ever wanted some space. Please tell me though they aren't all in the same city. I feel like if you have multiple homes they should be in different regions.

They are not all in the same city.

One is in the city of Ann Arbor, one is in the country about 20 miles north of town, in the woods near a lake where I can only see one neighbor from the land, and the third one is in Ohio.

Maybe it sounds like a big deal, but it's not. If you live long enough, you collect things. Some things you wish you hadn't collected.

Houses are a huge drain on resources. Hotels are better for a change of view.

[Eliza Thomason]

A few years ago, I met an ESI-Se who was working on the lawn of the house across the street. She owns a lawn care company and was directing her employees in the proper use of chain saws. I went over to talk to her, and after ten or twenty minutes of me being me, she said that we should "go out for a burger and a beer but no sex" some time. I was floored at her directness, and agreed.
I got her number and called her repeatedly and she finally agreed to go out. We had a great time and talked for eight hours without getting tired of each other, and then she refused to go out with me again.
I've repeatedly asked her out, and she has repeatedly refused. Which sucks, because I like her. She's very similar to the ESI-Se that my ILI-Te buddy married.

I recently got Gulenko's book about DCNH and read the descriptions of the ESI DCNH types. I'd call this woman a D type, given the fact that she owns her company. I'd also give the ESI wife of my ILI buddy a D designation, because she runs a part of the library system in their town.

Gulenko said that the ESI D type rules the household and is a good provider for the family. This implies that the husband is not such a great provider, and I know a number of LIE's who don't actually make much money. I then recalled that, near the end of my date with the ESI-Se, when she and I had been talking in my house for hours, the subject of our respective levels of wealth came up (obliquely, very obliquely), and I frankly admitted that I had three houses to her one.
That was strike one. She probably feels that she needs to control the home and the marriage, and she fears that she might not be able to do that with me.

Then, I kept calling her for another date. This was strike two.
She always refused. I've read conflicting things about ESI's. Some writers say that they are Aggressors and will ask a guy out and they hate it when a guy chases them. Others say that ESI's will never make the first move. The truth of the matter is that it probably depends on subtypes, or possibly DCNH, and I suspect that the ESI-Se or D-type is going to be the one who chases.
To verify this, I called my ILI-Te buddy and asked him if he had asked his ESI-Se D-type wife out first, or if she was the one who suggested everything. He told me that she did the asking. He went on to say that he really hadn't had much experience with women prior to her (think, 40 year-old virgin), so he wasn't exactly aggressive.
Lol. To say the least. Nor is he earning very much money. He gets a lot of money from his wealthy father, so her library income probably dominates the home finances. She probably picked up on that in an instant.

When the ESI-Se and I were out on a date, she and I were talking about our ideas of a perfect mate. She showed me a picture of a (married) friend of hers. The guy was a dweebish ILI.
In any case, it is clear to me that she wants to do the asking and her partner needs to be the passive one. Well, I'm not like that. So that is definitely strike two.

Then, more recently, after I had resignedly placed her in the friend zone and was moving on to dating other women but was still thinking about her, she texted me out of the blue and started flirting. So I asked her out for a date again and again she refused. She said she only wants a business relationship with me.
I'll chalk this up to her not seeing me as the guy she wants to get closer to, but not wishing to lose a potential business resource, either.
Strike three. Game over.

But this is good. I've learned something about myself and about ESI-Se D-types. I've learned that they probably won't be compatible with me.
Damn, I'm glad that most people instinctively know what they want. I, myself, have to puzzle it out from clues.

This also implies that, while I fit much of Gulenko's description of the LIE Normalizing type, I'm at heart a D-type myself.

I feel motivated to tell you about this piece of very valuable relationship advice, even though I won't be efficient at explaining it, but its basically a simple solution. I feel moved to try my best to explain it to you here, because I keep thinking it will be quite valuable to add to your bag of tricks.. LOL, I mean, your methods of securing your Dual spouse.

This relationship advice came from a mega-bestseller among Christian books, called Love Must Be Tough, by Dr. James Dobson. So many copies were sold and there have been many re-printings that there is a ton out there and you can buy a used on Amazon starting at 40 cents. Any edition will do. I just gave away 2/3rds of my precious books that I love, survivors of many previous cullings. One of them was this book, and it was hard to part with as I have lent it to many. In fact it was the 3rd copy I'd owned since many people forget to return books, but I wanted to keep owning a copy of it since it had helped many.

The goal of James Dobson (founder of "Focus on the family" Institute) in this book was to save marriages, particularly to help the spouse whose spouse was straying from the marriage, often for an affair, or from boredom or disinterest. The book tells the method for winning them back.

When I Google "straying spouse" I see all kinds of advice which is exactly what Dobson describes and relegates to his "NEVER Do This" category, which includes everything you are tempted to do: Beg, plead, reason, have a sit-down talk, ingratiate yourself, cry pitifully, promise to be better, etc., etc. Dobson has a simple but different solution that is easy and TRUE HELP for someone in this desperate situation.

I know you are not desperate, Adam, but this advice is great for ESI's like above*, who are inexplicitly backing away, to bring them back, if possible. And you must ensure also you do not do any of the normal responses that will certainly drive them further away..

There are basic principles and Dobson tells them, but they center on this theme: Never act desperate to keep them, instead, calmly accept their decision to leave, saying something like, "I am sorry you want to leave. I love you and care for you deeply and would like you to stay, but I respect your decision to go away. I will miss you but I want you to be happy and I want to give you the space to do this if that is what yo want." (I don't have the book here to check, but that is the gist of it). You show deep respect for their need for space [Also, he explains, respect yourself and make them respect you by never letting let them have that "exploration space" in your shared home. They need to leave for this].

Okay, here is the simple thing you do, the central theme, that is hard to explain without a picture. But this works for not just marriages but new or old relationships and friendships.

Dobson draws a simple childlike drawing int he text to go with his explanation.

Scenario ONE:

The picture is two hands, index fingers pointing up, about 6" apart from each other. The picture represents the two spouses, the 6" away represents their normal space between them.

Spouse #1 gets bored/restless, discontent, so he/she increases the distance, moving in the opposite direction of their spouse, 3-6" away from them.

The further the distance created, the more panicked Spouse#2 gets, wanting to remedy this alarming situation, so she/he closes the distance, going after #1, trying to maintain that 6" space!

Spouse #1, the man (or woman) with a mission, still needing the extra space he feels he must have, keeps on moving!

Spouse #2 wit more determination than ever keeps moving after Spouse #1 to get back the 6" space, and this is going nowhere good. Spouse #2 can't win.

____________

Scenario TWO:

Begins in same way as above, with the two spouses 6" apart.

Spouse #1 wants space, or to explore another relationship, so begins moving left away from Spouse #2.

Spouse #2 does not chase him. He allows the space to increase. I think Spouse #2 may begin to wander further away himself.

Spouse number #1 looks back and says, "Hey, wait a minute, this increased space is uncomfortable!" or, "Hey, I am the one increasing space. Why is he/she increasing it?" He starts to close back in a bit and see what Spouse #2 is up to. Is she still there for him?

You see, the only way top get them back is to let them go, or even move further away.

___________

Dobson explains a lot of simple things related things on how to play this in the book. Rule Number One is never let them see the book! Hide it. Because if they read it and see what you are doing, it's game over, and they are free to wander away again, as there is no curiosity to bring them back. You keep up a "mystery", polite, and not overplaying it. You stay polite, not troubled, and definitely not "desperate," ever. Your regret at the relationship not working is very matter-of-fact, calm and accepting. So this book describes a very practical method. And it works! Try it once and you will find other uses for it. I have. My sis-in-law saved her marriage with it; she used that book, and attributes it to the saving of her marriage. Two kids and many years in a conflictor marriage! It's been challenge for both but both are glad to have stayed an intact family for their kids most especially.

So Adam, this seems like it might help you with the ESI above, or at least certainly with similar situations. Sorry I can't check for typos but I have spent way too long on this! More thoughts below on that ESI:


__________
*Also the ESI would have an exquisite personal feeling reaction to an 8 hour "date" with a dual who only just before had been a basically a stranger, like in the situation you describe here. I kind of understand her use of Fi , which may not be so different from mine, even though she is my Supervisee. She would want to take this wealth of feeling-reactions that came from this long day of extroverted interactions deep INSIDE herself, alone, away from prying eyes, to give it all the time she needs to contemplate and think it through. Without any outside input! You don't want to disturb that process by appearing to be pressuring her or waiting for her action-response. Sort of like a hungry wild animal you just gave a food offering to. You withdraw, let them eat, and don't hover. You respect the distance they need to be comfortable eating. Particularly if she liked you and it's clear you are a good match, and you are available, and you are interested. That surely must increase the need for space. That is a lot to contemplate, especially if she wasn't feeling ready for a relationship, and cautions that came up in the conversation require exploring, i.e., you make more or as much as she does and that feels intimidating, and she has to figure out for herself how she could live with/deal with that. Also, you say her comfort zone is "dweebish ILI" and you are a quite a departure from that - she needs time and space to think how/if she can handle this new and unknown.

I think if you ever even imply a push for a response from her concerning the next step, before she had made decision after her necessary introverted contemplation, the safest, automatic, expected reply from her would be "No way, no thanks." So much better than to later regret having too soon and too unknowingly said yes to unforeseen dangers and discomforts! Yes, you are a force to be reckoned with, and that force requires her to put her arm out straight and keep the force back a bit. Space please. Back off now. If/when she is ready, the arm comes down, welcoming you to make that move she knew you had in you all along.

I think Extroverted Gamma types, both you and SEE, tend to be like, "Okay, it's obvious, and to both of us: we are a match. Now let's lay the cards on the table and move this forward!" I think Introverted Gamma really don't want to be rushed and you need to make yourself scarce like you would with that hungry wild animal. The fact that she wrote you flirting texts now that you have accepted the distance does not surprise me. She has not actually closed that door.

If any ESI's are reading this, feedback would be helpful, since I am not an ESI. Does my read of what is going on in ESI's head seem plausible?

[Adam Strange]

I feel motivated to tell you about this piece of very valuable relationship advice, even though I won't be efficient at explaining it, but its basically a simple solution. I feel moved to try my best to explain it to you here, because I keep thinking it will be quite valuable to add to your bag of tricks.. LOL, I mean, your methods of securing your Dual spouse.

This relationship advice came from a mega-bestseller among Christian books, called Love Must Be Tough, by Dr. James Dobson. So many copies were sold and there have been many re-printings that there is a ton out there and you can buy a used on Amazon starting at 40 cents. Any edition will do. I just gave away 2/3rds of my precious books that I love, survivors of many previous cullings. One of them was this book, and it was hard to part with as I have lent it to many. In fact it was the 3rd copy I'd owned since many people forget to return books, but I wanted to keep owning a copy of it since it had helped many.

The goal of James Dobson (founder of "Focus on the family" Institute) in this book was to save marriages, particularly to help the spouse whose spouse was straying from the marriage, often for an affair, or from boredom or disinterest. The book tells the method for winning them back.

When I Google "straying spouse" I see all kinds of advice which is exactly what Dobson describes and relegates to his "NEVER Do This" category, which includes everything you are tempted to do: Beg, plead, reason, have a sit-down talk, ingratiate yourself, cry pitifully, promise to be better, etc., etc. Dobson has a simple but different solution that is easy and TRUE HELP for someone in this desperate situation.

I know you are not desperate, Adam, but this advice is great for ESI's like above*, who are inexplicitly backing away, to bring them back, if possible. And you must ensure also you do not do any of the normal responses that will certainly drive them further away..

There are basic principles and Dobson tells them, but they center on this theme: Never act desperate to keep them, instead, calmly accept their decision to leave, saying something like, "I am sorry you want to leave. I love you and care for you deeply and would like you to stay, but I respect your decision to go away. I will miss you but I want you to be happy and I want to give you the space to do this if that is what yo want." (I don't have the book here to check, but that is the gist of it). You show deep respect for their need for space [Also, he explains, respect yourself and make them respect you by never letting let them have that "exploration space" in your shared home. They need to leave for this].

Okay, here is the simple thing you do, the central theme, that is hard to explain without a picture. But this works for not just marriages but new or old relationships and friendships.

Dobson draws a simple childlike drawing int he text to go with his explanation.

Scenario ONE:

The picture is two hands, index fingers pointing up, about 6" apart from each other. The picture represents the two spouses, the 6" away represents their normal space between them.

Spouse #1 gets bored/restless, discontent, so he/she increases the distance, moving in the opposite direction of their spouse, 3-6" away from them.

The further the distance created, the more panicked Spouse#2 gets, wanting to remedy this alarming situation, so she/he closes the distance, going after #1, trying to maintain that 6" space!

Spouse #1, the man (or woman) with a mission, still needing the extra space he feels he must have, keeps on moving!

Spouse #2 wit more determination than ever keeps moving after Spouse #1 to get back the 6" space, and this is going nowhere good. Spouse #2 can't win.

____________

Scenario TWO:

Begins in same way as above, with the two spouses 6" apart.

Spouse #1 wants space, or to explore another relationship, so begins moving left away from Spouse #2.

Spouse #2 does not chase him. He allows the space to increase. I think Spouse #2 may begin to wander further away himself.

Spouse number #1 looks back and says, "Hey, wait a minute, this increased space is uncomfortable!" or, "Hey, I am the one increasing space. Why is he/she increasing it?" He starts to close back in a bit and see what Spouse #2 is up to. Is she still there for him?

You see, the only way top get them back is to let them go, or even move further away.

___________

Dobson explains a lot of simple things related things on how to play this in the book. Rule Number One is never let them see the book! Hide it. Because if they read it and see what you are doing, it's game over, and they are free to wander away again, as there is no curiosity to bring them back. You keep up a "mystery", polite, and not overplaying it. You stay polite, not troubled, and definitely not "desperate," ever. Your regret at the relationship not working is very matter-of-fact, calm and accepting. So this book describes a very practical method. And it works! Try it once and you will find other uses for it. I have. My sis-in-law saved her marriage with it; she used that book, and attributes it to the saving of her marriage. Two kids and many years in a conflictor marriage! It's been challenge for both but both are glad to have stayed an intact family for their kids most especially.

So Adam, this seems like it might help you with the ESI above, or at least certainly with similar situations. Sorry I can't check for typos but I have spent way too long on this! More thoughts below on that ESI:


__________
*Also the ESI would have an exquisite personal feeling reaction to an 8 hour "date" with a dual who only just before had been a basically a stranger, like in the situation you describe here. I kind of understand her use of Fi , which may not be so different from mine, even though she is my Supervisee. She would want to take this wealth of feeling-reactions that came from this long day of extroverted interactions deep INSIDE herself, alone, away from prying eyes, to give it all the time she needs to contemplate and think it through. Without any outside input! You don't want to disturb that process by appearing to be pressuring her or waiting for her action-response. Sort of like a hungry wild animal you just gave a food offering to. You withdraw, let them eat, and don't hover. You respect the distance they need to be comfortable eating. Particularly if she liked you and it's clear you are a good match, and you are available, and you are interested. That surely must increase the need for space. That is a lot to contemplate, especially if she wasn't feeling ready for a relationship, and cautions that came up in the conversation require exploring, i.e., you make more or as much as she does and that feels intimidating, and she has to figure out for herself how she could live with/deal with that. Also, you say her comfort zone is "dweebish ILI" and you are a quite a departure from that - she needs time and space to think how/if she can handle this new and unknown.

I think if you ever even imply a push for a response from her concerning the next step, before she had made decision after her necessary introverted contemplation, the safest, automatic, expected reply from her would be "No way, no thanks." So much better than to later regret having too soon and too unknowingly said yes to unforeseen dangers and discomforts! Yes, you are a force to be reckoned with, and that force requires her to put her arm out straight and keep the force back a bit. Space please. Back off now. If/when she is ready, the arm comes down, welcoming you to make that move she knew you had in you all along.

I think Extroverted Gamma types, both you and SEE, tend to be like, "Okay, it's obvious, and to both of us: we are a match. Now let's lay the cards on the table and move this forward!" I think Introverted Gamma really don't want to be rushed and you need to make yourself scarce like you would with that hungry wild animal. The fact that she wrote you flirting texts now that you have accepted the distance does not surprise me. She has not actually closed that door.

If any ESI's are reading this, feedback would be helpful, since I am not an ESI. Does my read of what is going on in ESI's head seem plausible?

Thanks, Eliza. I really appreciate all the work you put into that reply. And the advice is excellent. I didn't know about Fi-doms needing time to process their thoughts, but now I do. Thanks for that.

It is interesting that you suggested that I simply tell her that I respect her wishes, and then withdraw and give her space. When she said last week that she only wanted a business relationship with me, I texted her back and said "I respect that. I know that you know what you want, and I have to say, I hope you will change your mind sometime in the future, but as for now, a business relationship is fine."

However, Eliza, I really don't think she's interested in me, Dual or not-Dual. I've known her for years, and that one date was a very long time ago. If she really wanted a closer relationship, she'd have said something by now.

You know how people can talk about the weather, and simultaneously be describing their true thoughts about marriage or a friend or some problematic person at work? She has done this to me. Once, when I called her about doing some work in the yard, she said the phrase "I don't think they've lost interest yet entirely." She might have been describing a plant's interest in blooming or something, but I took it as an unconscious comment on my interest in her. That happened after a long hiatus during which I didn't call her.

Another thing that I thought was strange was a time, not a date, when she asked me to listen to her car and see if something was loose in the suspension. We drove around and I could hear the noise, and I thought it might be a deteriorating universal joint going to a wheel. These can fail if the boot is cracked, so I parked the car in a lot and scooted under it to look at the universal joint and to see if it had any free play in the critical direction.
Normally, when a guy demonstrates a high level of car-fixing ability, a woman really warms up to him. Not her. She seemed colder towards me after that than she was before. I think this indicates that she sees my mechanical skills as competition. And being a woman in a man's world, she doesn't need any more of that at home.

Truthfully, at this point, I think her interest in me mainly revolves around the fact that I pay my bills on time.

As for her flirting, you know, she's a single woman living alone and she probably wants some male attention every once in a while. That flirting lasted as long as her mood that day, and hasn't been repeated.

Nope. To paraphrase the Magic 8-Ball, "All signs point to No." I don't think she's interested, I believe that she's demonstrating her decision by her actions, and I firmly believe that persistence in the face of disinterest is a waste of time.

BUT, as I said in my earlier post, I learned a lot from this. LIE's can be relentless in their pursuit of a goal and simultaneously be completely tone-deaf when it comes to people's feelings. I'm like that. But now I better understand that she wants to take the lead in a relationship and wants a guy who is more pliable and who has much less Se than I do, and I can easily accept that perspective and move on to someone who is a better match.

Again, thanks for your thoughts. I'm definitely going to keep your advice on Fi in mind when talking with the next female.

[Cuddly McFluffles]

LIE: Look at this amazing lakeside house!
ESI: Think of the mosquitoes, though.

[Adam Strange]

LIE: Look at this amazing lakeside house!
ESI: Think of the mosquitoes, though.

You are exactly right. The place is home to billions of hungry mosquitoes.

https://i.imgur.com/FZTGLNE.jpg

There is a pond on the other side of the yellow flowers, and a stream leading through a swamp to a lake on the other side of the trees. Hungry, hungry mosquitoes.
It's not ON a lake, it's only NEAR a lake.

Now, if I had been Dualized, I might not have bought it. Because, you know, ESI's are often right.

[Adam Strange]

Male LIE: Hey, do you want to go out sometime?

Female ESI #1: I really don't seem to have much spare time. I think I might have something else planned. Whenever you call.

Female ESI #2: Haha.

Female ESI #3: No.

Female ESI #4: Are you around at all next week? I'd love to see you when I'm in town.

Yeah, I made up #4.

[nanashi]

Male LIE: Hey, do you want to go out sometime?

Female ESI #1: I really don't seem to have much spare time. I think I might have something else planned. Whenever you call.

Female ESI #2: Haha.

Female ESI #3: No.

Female ESI #4: Are you around at all next week? I'd love to see you when I'm in town.

Yeah, I made up #4.

aw. Hard day, huh?
I make lists like this when it's been a hard day

[Adam Strange]

aw. Hard day, huh?
I make lists like this when it's been a hard day

They say you can't hide things from an Identical. Lol.

[sbbds]

They say you can't hide things from an Identical. Lol.

[Adam Strange]

Mark the Newsreader = possible LSE, Elizabeth Gentle = ESI. Antoine Dodson = IEI, Crime scene investigator = ESI

"Hide your kids, hide your wife, an' hide (uninteligible) because they rapin' anybody out here." LMFAO.