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    Quote Originally Posted by Suonani View Post
    1. In a PUBG game


    Me: "There's footsteps... be careful there's someone around the building, he's about to..."


    The LIE breaks the window with an incredible loud noise and runs off to chase the enemy while I stand there, wondering why he didn't just take the door like everyone else.

    There is never a game without my LIE going through the windows. N-E-V-E-R.



    2. In PUBG again, at the end of the game:


    LIE: "damn he's well hidden the bastard"
    Me: "mmmh indeed, wait"


    *ESI starts running around*


    LIE: "but... what are you doing?"
    Me: "I'm just a bait, if he shoots at me, you'll know where he is"
    LIE: "Oh I see, not bad!"
    Seem fun. Ni types may have dramatic over the top Se fantasy, so they act more reckless in game, maybe.

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    Psychology BSc and statistics MSc Armitage's Avatar
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    What's a PUBGame, though?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Armitage View Post
    What's a PUBGame, though?
    Player Unknown Battleground. It's a Battle Royale game.

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    Psychology BSc and statistics MSc Armitage's Avatar
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    Yes, we do, deep down we desire being brave, adventurous heroes who save the day, instead of intellectual managers and programmers.
    Last edited by Armitage; 03-11-2022 at 07:41 AM.

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    ESI - H (male) and LIE - C (female)





    Last edited by Tarnished; 03-15-2022 at 05:40 AM.

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    The ESI-Fi date and I left the restaurant late, after dark. We crossed the cobblestone road to my little white Honda and passed a new, black Ferrari parked next to me. For some reason, I thought it was a Porsche.

    “My brother bought one of those,” she said.

    “A Porsche?” I replied.

    ”No, a Frury.” She pronounced it just like that. “Fruri.”

    ”You can buy a used Ferrari for a few tens of thousands of dollars”, I said.

    ”He bought it new.”

    ”I’ve thought about buying a Porsche,” I said. “They are beautiful cars. The only thing stopping me is that Porsche owners all seem to be complete assholes.”

    ”That fits, because my brother is an asshole.”

    She paused, then continued, “I was at a dealership and I told him I wanted to shop for a McLaren.”

    “You mean, a Ferrari?”

    ”No, a McLaren.” This, she pronounced correctly.
    ”You know. Just to sit in it. Tell the salesman that I’m interested in buying it. Have my picture taken with me in the car. Then all my friends will think I’m rich.”

    Then she started laughing.


    This woman was very aware of money. I, on the other hand, am very aware of my need to be loved.
    I can’t believe how true the descriptions of ESI-LIE Duality are.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 03-15-2022 at 12:22 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by one View Post
    She seems annoyingly fake and materialistic. lol

    Materialistic, yes. She’s one of the most materialistic women I’ve ever met. But fake? No. She was anything but fake.

    I think ESIs are typically Sp/Sx, so they seek Sp security (she told me that the thing she fears most is being left without any help), while being superb at managing one-on-one relationships through Sx.

    The ESI-Se interior decorator whom I hired to redo my house is also Sp/Sx. She is a black hole for money and I find her incredibly appealing on a personal level.

    I’m Sx/So, so I’m in need of a one-on-one Sx connection while being very competent at So public relations.

    I tend to ignore Sp concerns. What this relationship might translate to in the real world might be that she spends freely to get nice things and I ignore the level of spending, because she’s manipulating the Sx interpersonal feed I’m getting. This would normally be an absolute disaster if the pair couldn’t absolutely influence each other’s actions.
    (“Stop spending. We’re out of money this month, and there won’t be more coming in for six weeks.”
    ”Ok.”)

    The horrible thing is that these two instinctual types seem to be made for each other.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 03-15-2022 at 01:04 PM.

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    Psychology BSc and statistics MSc Armitage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarnished View Post
    ESI - H (male) and LIE - C (female)






    If the guy is ESI and she's a LIE, then the guy and girl in this manga are probably too: https://manhuascan.com/read-ai-boyfriend-chapter-1.html
    What do you think @Tarnished, @Nicozeyo, and @End?



    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Materialistic, yes. She’s one of the most materialistic women I’ve ever met. But fake? No. She was anything but fake.

    I think ESIs are typically Sp/Sx, so they seek Sp security (she told me that the thing she fears most is being left without any help), while being superb at managing one-on-one relationships through Sx.

    The ESI-Se interior decorator whom I hired to redo my house is also Sp/Sx. She is a black hole for money and I find her incredibly appealing on a personal level.

    I’m Sx/So, so I’m in need of a one-on-one Sx connection while being very competent at So public relations.

    I tend to ignore Sp concerns. What this relationship might translate to in the real world might be that she spends freely to get nice things and I ignore the level of spending, because she’s manipulating the Sx interpersonal feed I’m getting. This would normally be an absolute disaster if the pair couldn’t absolutely influence each other’s actions.
    (“Stop spending. We’re out of money this month, and there won’t be more coming in for six weeks.”
    ”Ok.”)

    The horrible thing is that these two instinctual types seem to be made for each other.
    How do you know that she's ESI-Fi, instead of ESI-Se, if she's so focused on materialism? By the way, what would your reaction be if she starts asking you to lend her money?
    Last edited by Armitage; 03-17-2022 at 07:42 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Armitage View Post
    If the guy is ESI and she's a LIE, then the guy and girl in this manga are probably too: https://manhuascan.com/read-ai-boyfriend-chapter-1.html
    What do you think @Tarnished and @End?





    How do you know that she's ESI-Fi, instead of ESI-Se, if she's so focused on materialism? By the way, what would your reaction be if she starts asking you to lend her money?
    @Armitage, the ESI-Se decorator almost never talks about her feelings or relationships, but instead is entirely focused on getting work done “right now”. She made a list of tasks for me and taped it to my dining room wall.

    This ESI-Fi almost ONLY talked about how she felt about all of the people in her life. There was some little talk of why she wanted to buy things (because she likes to look a pretty things), but otherwise, it was non-stop “all people feelings, all the time”.

    The ESI-Fi didn’t ask me for money, although that date cost me about $600. I have this feeling that she needs or wants money, but that we weren’t deep enough into the chess game for her to ask for it, if that was even her intent.

    I’m not inclined to give her money. I’d be disappointed if she asked, because that would turn the relationship into something much worse.

    She did say that she argued all the time about money with her previous BFs. I told her that I, in turn, never argued with my (SLI) ex-wife about money. The SLI and I argued about intent and direction, but never about spending money, proper. Of course, we both made a lot of it, but we never once objected to the way that the other person was spending it.

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    Psychology BSc and statistics MSc Armitage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    She did say that she argued all the time about money with her previous BFs. I told her that I, in turn, never argued with my (SLI) ex-wife about money. The SLI and I argued about intent and direction, but never about spending money, proper. Of course, we both made a lot of it, but we never once objected to the way that the other person was spending it.
    How exactly do these things differ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Armitage View Post
    If the guy is ESI and she's a LIE, then the guy and girl in this manga are probably too: https://manhuascan.com/read-ai-boyfriend-chapter-1.html
    What do you think @Tarnished and @End?

    Lol reading it so hilarious.
    Yeah I think they could be LIE-ESI, especially the girl seem pretty LIE for me.

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    @Armitage

    Hi,

    I don't know because I don't like typing with videos even more so with fictional characters but, for what it is worth. Indeed, I think the characters in the two videos could be LIE/ESI.

    About the manga you showed, we don't see many things but the trope seems to be about "being human / being a machine" it could really be something like a rational dual dyad. So, yes, they could be LIE/ESI.

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    Psychology BSc and statistics MSc Armitage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    *I got the clear impression that she was operating as if her BFs were a partner, like an LIE would be, but instead, they were operating as competitors for their resources. She was definitely not in a Duality.
    Sharing resources, because your partner shares the same goal as you, so helping him is the same as helping yourself and vice versa?



    Quote Originally Posted by Nicozeyo View Post
    About the manga you showed, we don't see many things but the trope seems to be about "being human / being a machine" it could really be something like a rational dual dyad. So, yes, they could be LIE/ESI.
    The fun part of this manga is, though, that the ESI is the robot, not the LIE. He is very self-conscious of it.
    Last edited by Armitage; 03-18-2022 at 09:16 AM.

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    LIE, on a date with an ESI: "I'm pretty good with knowing facts and with planning the future, but I'm not very expressive. I don't show my feelings."

    ESI, waiting for the hostess to seat us: "Oh, no! You show your feelings. I can tell."

    LIE: "What? How?"

    ESI: "Sometimes, when you're talking, your voice goes up and down."


    Lol.
    Not the response I'd get from an SEI or an LII.

    "Duals: Built for each other, not for another."

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    These following conversations aren't verbatim, but I think it might be valuable to share them for future reference.

    On Friday, I met a new ESI and, for some reason (Victimhood? IDK) I told her that I am very, very good at bullshitting. I'm good at painting a rosy picture to get people on-board with whatever it is that I want them for, and please don't look behind the curtain. She seemed unfazed at this news and just laughed.
    Well, no one can say that she wasn't warned. On the other hand, ESIs are so full of doubt that she's going to be doubting everything I say anyway.

    Yesterday, the ESI-Se whom I hired last summer to start redecorating my home came over to say she was available for more work, if I could use her. (Of course I can. Her benefits far outweigh her costs.) She told me in passing that she made more money in two months working for me than she's made in any previous year. She had a huge tax bill, and it was all due to me. Lol.
    I told her that I, on the other hand, despite having had a great year, paid no taxes at all last year. 4D Te vs 1D Te.
    I should have stopped there (maybe before there), but when an ESI is around, my mouth just has a mind of its own. I told her that my sociotype is one of the best earners, and hers is one of the worst earners, but she has a moral sense that is way beyond mine. My type is also great at bullshitting, and her type is great at doubting, and her constant questioning of me and my motives is what keeps me honest.
    Truly, some of the stupidest things I've done were done because I did not have effective constraints on my actions or my spending. An ESI would fix that, I think. I find that I actually listen and (reluctantly) obey ESIs when they make a good case. So I need an ESI as a defense against my own worst tendencies.
    I think that, while ESIs don't seem to make much money, as a rule, their role is to control the way that the money is spent.
    I told the ESI-Se this, and she got this thoughtful expression on her face.

    The ESI-Fi that I dated last summer told me that the reason I'm paying the ESI-Se to redecorate my house is that I hope to fuck her. (Her words. ESIs have 3D Se.) I said I wasn't against having sex with the lesbian interior decorator, but that wasn't my main reason for paying her well.
    I have two main reasons for paying her well. One, I want to lend a hand to a person who is going to be financially challenged for the rest of her life. I've got money, she doesn't, and a democrat wants equality. Two, I want to keep her attention. Just having her around, to both limit my excesses and to show me a moral life, is worth far more to me than money. You can't buy that shit. You might find it by accident, but if you do, you still need to keep it around for its benefits. Money is a cheap way to do that.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 04-17-2022 at 01:25 PM.

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    Psychology BSc and statistics MSc Armitage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I find that I actually listen and (reluctantly) obey ESIs when they make a good case.
    It is hard to resist them, to tell them "No.", unless it is truly something outrageous that they demand and even then it can be difficult to ignore their request when they have set their sights on something. ESIs and LIEs sure share stubborness.


    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I think that, while ESIs don't seem to make much money, as a rule, their role is to control the way that the money is spent.
    I tend to disagree, I actually have to bar my boyfriend from making dumb financial decisions. For instance, he wanted to squander his remaining money on getting his phone camera repaired, so we can videocall again. But he has few savings and the end of the month is still far away. In addition to that, today he informed me that he needs to pay for some official documents and get them signed, because he needs the dossier for his next contract. I'm glad that I prevented him from getting his smartphone repaired, because this is far more important. It really seems that he's winging his life, trying to land his next contract and getting all the overdue maintenance and purchases done, but when between contracts he skimps out on everything to get by. It's an unhealthy oscillating lifestyle without an overarching Ni plan behind instead of just trying to survive and working hard to get to a better living standard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    One, I want to lend a hand to a person who is going to be financially challenged for the rest of her life. I've got money, she doesn't, and a democrat wants equality. Two, I want to keep her attention. Just having her around, to both limit my excesses and to show me a moral life, is worth far more to me than money. You can't buy that shit.
    Yes and yes. The emotional support that ESIs provide I deem incredibly valuable, both Räv and my cycling friend help me in this. I only realized what I had been missing all this time now that I've found it.

    ESI-LIE duality:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-clmL9fj5_o
    Last edited by Armitage; 04-18-2022 at 12:04 AM.

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    I believe that Duals are the type most able to form happy, reasonably long-lived relationships with each other, but there are caveats. In my particular case, I'm finding that ESIs vary. A lot.

    Over the years, I've read on-line that ESIs are jealous, that they are condemning, that they are moral police, that the Se variety have sexual hangups, that they can be self-centered and selfish, and in my experience, it's all true.

    Last summer, I hired an ESI-Se interior decorator to fix up my house, and I was dating an ESI-Fi who was separated from, but still married to, her husband.

    The ESI-Fi accused me of hiring the ESI-Se only because I "wanted to fuck her", which was not incorrect, but that was only about 5% of the reason. Ninety-five percent was because she had good, Gamma taste.

    The ESI-Se started her work by getting rid of everything that was associated with my ex-wife. Later, she told me that the ESI-Fi had lots of problems and that I deserved to be with someone better (but not her). Just someone.

    Another time, the ESI-Se told me that the reason she snapped at me was because she had PMS. I asked her if she felt this way every month, and she said that she didn't want to discuss it (after bringing it up), especially with me. (She's a lesbian, if that matters.)

    The ESI-Fi seemed to initially want my company until she got back on her feet (after her separation), and then she didn't want to hang out with me so much.

    So, morally condemning? Yes.
    Jealous? Yes.
    Policing my morals while not exactly being paragons of virtue themselves? Yes.
    Sexual hangups? Yes.
    Self-centered and selfish? Yes.

    This is probably why LIEs spend so much time at work.

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    Will we start over, or circle the drain crazymaisy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I believe that Duals are the type most able to form happy, reasonably long-lived relationships with each other, but there are caveats. In my particular case, I'm finding that ESIs vary. A lot.

    So, morally condemning? Yes.
    Jealous? Yes.
    Policing my morals while not exactly being paragons of virtue themselves? Yes.
    Sexual hangups? Yes.
    Self-centered and selfish? Yes.

    This is probably why LIEs spend so much time at work.
    SF caveats for Gamma, I think both j/p are like that from my personal experience (Mostly my SEE and my ESI Uncle)
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    My dad yells at me for random crap I do wrong. Very helpful actually. He is an idiot though, like he thinks my Aunt is fine and I'm not, I'm breaking it to him very slowly. He's obviously ESI, because understand each other perfectly and get pissed at bad news.
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    An optimist - does not get discouraged under any circumstances. Life upheavals and stressful events only toughen him and make more confident. He likes to laugh and entertain people. Enters contact with someone by involving him with a humorous remark. His humor is often sly and contain hints and double meanings. Easily enters into arguments and bets, especially if he is challenged. When arguing his points is often ironic, ridicules the views of his opponent. His irritability and hot temper may be unpleasant to others. However, he himself is not perceptive of this and believes that he is simply exchanging opinions.

    http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.php?title=LIE_Profile_by_Gulenko

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    I have an older LSE friend whom I like. We've worked together on some projects and I like the way he thinks. I've also met his family, and they do not like him at all. I chalked it up to them being spoiled by his money, but he did tell me once that his ancestors owned slaves, and he seemed pleased by this fact.

    I told an ESI-Se about him, then she met him when he came over one day. I later told her that he was kind of a Te asshole, but he was basically a good guy.

    "I don't think he's a good guy at all," she said. "I think he's a very bad guy."

    I was dismayed. One meeting and she hates my friend.

    The worst thing about it is that I think she might be right.

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    @Adam Strange see i told u
    Even if u arent as bad as him maybe ur volatility is the same
    And maybe theres something wrong with u im not fully discerning yet and im thirsty for drama but ive never managed to get through an LIE
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    I've encountered so much problems dealing with ESIs, and so my LIE friend. We spoke about it weeks ago.

    ESIs are usually full of prejudices and continually afraid that someone will take away from them the people they love, even if the conditions for this are almost impossible.
    An ESI I know is extremely jealous and every time a girl follows her boyfriend on Instagram, she follows them after a second and checks them out. She claims that she is afraid that anything will happen and that the boyfriend will leave her (PolR Ne?). For this reason she has prejudices towards anyone who approaches the group, even male friends, because male friends could give him advice against her (her words).

    The thing that is most often noticed is the Ti Role overreaction: she begins to tell you that the reasons for which something negative will happen for sure has a logic, and she explains that from reason A to consequence B etc, trying to convince you that it is a flawless logic, while being over personalistic and bordering the absurd.
    This girl mistyped herself for INTP (mbti) and LII too many times for this reason.

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    LIE: Yep, I’m running 18 miles tomorrow.
    ESI: Oh, I did that intellectually today… in finishing the writing for this research proposal.
    LIE: And the crazy thing is, we signed up for these things! We chose our suffering!
    ESI: Oh, my brain is in citing author/year mode, but I can’t remember right now what year that book (that LIE is referring to- The subtle art of not giving a f*ck) came out

    i forget the rest but such a smooth back and forth, understanding of shared valued Se and Ni

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    The ESI interior decorator is looking online for a desk for me.

    ESI-Se: “I love this one. The top is this beautiful wood and looks amazing.”

    LIE is not a fan of wood, especially since he’s been using a floating green glass desktop and likes it. “What else have they got?”

    ESI-Se: “Nothing that looks like that. I love that desktop.”
    But the ESI humors me and keeps looking for 45 minutes.

    LIE finally says: “This is not efficient. We’re burning through too much time (LIE means “money”). Let’s get the one you liked. I can take the top off and replace it with the present glass desktop. That way, the new desktop gets recycled.”

    ESI-Se: “Recycled?”

    LIE: “Yes. I know someone I can give it to.”

    ESI-Se gets a concerned and disappointed look on her face. “Someone? Who?”

    LIE: “You.”

    ESI-Se, surprised, says nervously: “Oh! I thought you meant someone, as in someone else, and I wondered who they were.”

    LIE: “No, if you like that, you can have it. It doesn’t change the overall price, and I still get all the features that I want.”


    ESIs are said to hate Ne, and I think that one of the ways that manifests is that they don't like potential changes and they hate competition. Any kind of competition. They hate and fear Ne, the Intuition of Infinite Alternatives, which is probably good for their alley-cat Duals because the ESI steers the LIE away from energy-dissipating side ventures.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 08-22-2022 at 10:29 PM.

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    I’ve known this ESI-Se female for about eleven years. Yesterday she and I were moving some of my four thousand odd books, half of which are fiction and the other half are on science topics, and she asked me, “Are you an Engineer?”

    Lol. Se-doms might be the most observant types, but when mixed with strong Fi, they can miss a lot.

    ”No. I never took an engineering course in my life.” …….pause…… “My degree is in Astrophysics. I just pretend to be an engineer.”

    ”How can you do that?”

    ”Because, if you learn physics, engineering is easy. It’s EASY.”

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    Reposted from another thread, but I like this thread better.

    An ESI-Se interior decorator and I were improving my house yesterday and she decided that the couch had to go, so she put it on Facebook Marketplace. She, as typical for her type, set the price too low.

    A guy texted her immediately and said he would buy it, and he’d be over to get it in one hour.

    One hour later, he hasn’t shown up. She texts him and he said his buddy is coming to pick him up in his truck and they’ll be here in thirty minutes.

    Thirty minutes later, she has five offers for the couch, and some people have offered much more than her asking price. She texts the guy and asks what’s going on?
    He texts back and tells her that his buddy is doing some errands before picking him up.

    She turns to me (remember, she’s ESI and has a time horizon of right now) and says “This guy’s a flake and this woman just upped her offer again. What should I do?”

    I said, “That’s an Ethical question and is not up to me to decide. You make that decision.”

    She turned back to her phone. “It IS an ethical question,” and started typing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Reposted from another thread, but I like this thread better.

    An ESI-Se interior decorator and I were improving my house yesterday and she decided that the couch had to go, so she put it on Facebook Marketplace. She, as typical for her type, set the price too low.

    A guy texted her immediately and said he would buy it, and he’d be over to get it in one hour.

    One hour later, he hasn’t shown up. She texts him and he said his buddy is coming to pick him up in his truck and they’ll be here in thirty minutes.

    Thirty minutes later, she has five offers for the couch, and some people have offered much more than her asking price. She texts the guy and asks what’s going on?
    He texts back and tells her that his buddy is doing some errands before picking him up.

    She turns to me (remember, she’s ESI and has a time horizon of right now) and says “This guy’s a flake and this woman just upped her offer again. What should I do?”

    I said, “That’s an Ethical question and is not up to me to decide. You make that decision.”

    She turned back to her phone. “It IS an ethical question,” and started typing.
    I told the above story verbatim to my EII secretary of eleven years, to whom I’d probably be married if we were Duals instead of Semi-Duals, and she said, “She went for the one with more money, didn’t she?”

    Damn, girl. That’s harsh. Harsh, but perceptive.

    Sometimes I wish I could see people as well as Fi-doms do, but if I had that talent, I’d probably have to give up some equally useful skill, like walking or talking.

  28. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I told the above story verbatim to my EII secretary of eleven years, to whom I’d probably be married if we were Duals instead of Semi-Duals, and she said, “She went for the one with more money, didn’t she?”

    Damn, girl. That’s harsh. Harsh, but perceptive.

    Sometimes I wish I could see people as well as Fi-doms do, but if I had that talent, I’d probably have to give up some equally useful skill, like walking or talking.
    I would've done the same thing. I don't see it as unethical whatsoever, either, since he wasn't communicating or being dependable. "You snooze, you lose." My choice wouldn't be about more money in that situation, it'd be about not waiting around while someone repeatedly says one thing but does another. If it was me, your friend would've been misinterpreting my motives.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Leviathan View Post
    I would've done the same thing. I don't see it as unethical whatsoever, either, since he wasn't communicating or being dependable. "You snooze, you lose." My choice wouldn't be about more money in that situation, it'd be about not waiting around while someone repeatedly says one thing but does another. If it was me, your friend would've been misinterpreting my motives.
    I love this explanation. For one thing, ESIs don't seem to spend a lot of time thinking about how to get every dollar from a transaction, so the money would not have been of prime importance to her. Instead, the prospective buyer's Ne unpredictability would have made a much bigger impression on her. I've worked with her (and other ESIs) a lot, and they seem to have trouble judging whether a price is "good" or not, but they also want to make the transaction happen right away.

    Weirdly enough, I have found myself being much more definite (anti-Ne) about everything when I'm dealing with ESIs. If I'm going to be five minutes late to a meeting with most people, I let them wait. When I'm going to be late to meet an ESI, I text her and tell her exactly when she can expect me.

    This isn't something that I decided to do; this is something that I find myself doing naturally. It surprised me. It seems as if just interacting with ESIs makes me conform, consciously or not, intentionally or not, to their needs.

    From my perspective, which is that of a guy who does not want to be controlled, I find my behavior fascinating. I've described this kind of thing before by saying that it's as if the driver of a car has some controls and levers that they use to control the car, and when dealing with Duals, all those levers are connected to something. But when dealing with people who have different values, some of those levers are not connected. They either don't have any effect, or they do something different from what you want to have happen. The further from your Quadra you go, the fewer levers there are that are connected, until you get to your Conflictor and find that none of the levers work.
    The Dual's levers also work effectively on me. I find myself doing what they ask, which is almost completely unbelievable to me. It's like I'm a robot and someone else has taken control of my actions. Fortunately, the Duals I've met don't seem to abuse this superpower. I can usually trust them to act responsibly.

    When at dinner the other night, I told my semi-Dual EII secretary that, since she controls the money details, she should give herself a good raise this year. She said, "Don't you think I'll abuse this?"
    I laughed and said No. If anything, she'd underestimate the figure that I had in mind. And if she does, I'll let her know and she can have more.
    Believe me, money is nothing compared to keeping her around. She's a half-Dual and is not going to abuse the Fi/Te part of our relationship.*

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Leviathan View Post
    It's a perfect example of how most people assume the worst about others.
    The EII was judging the ESI based on her own values, which are not ESI values. She's going to interpret the ESI's actions as not being in-line with what she would do, or if her actions were identical, then they'd be coming from a different place. Not her place.
    Deltas just don't seem to place a high importance on money, at least, not to the degree that Gammas seem to. And by the time the Quadras rotate around to the Alphas, you find people who hold money in disdain.

    *

    Where the EII and I go wrong is in the Se/Si Ne/Ni parts of our relationship. She told me explicitly that the reason we couldn't be married is because we can't influence each other do things, and we tend to not agree (or even discuss with each other) where the company is going.
    I talk to my ESI friends about the company direction about 100X more than I do with the EII.

    When the EII and I left the restaurant, it was dark and the stars were just coming out. We stood in the parking lot and I told her that if, instead of me being a Victim LIE, I were her Caregiver LSE, I'd say something like
    (John Wayne voice) "Well, little lady, why don't you and I just wander out to the edge of the pasture here and watch the city lights come on. I'll kick the horse pucky off my boots and we can stand by that corral fence and keep each other warm."
    Then, I gave her a solid hug and she smiled. If I actually were an LSE, she'd be perfect. But if I were an LSE, I'd probably be too dumb to know it.

    I can do "Caregiver" well, but unfortunately, only for about twenty seconds.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 05-13-2022 at 12:34 PM.

  30. #30
    Psychology BSc and statistics MSc Armitage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    “She went for the one with more money, didn’t she?”
    She went for the one who didn't stand her up repeatedly, it's the same event, only a different way of framing it, just like Lady Leviathan said. Our perspective changes reality.

  31. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Armitage View Post
    She went for the one who didn't stand her up repeatedly, it's the same event, only a different way of framing it, just like Lady Leviathan said. Our perspective changes reality.
    It's a perfect example of how most people assume the worst about others.


  32. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    she’s ESI and has a time horizon of right now
    Lmfao I love this phrasing.

    So fucking accurate, too >.<


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    Reposted from another thread, but I like this thread better.


    I spent the entire day yesterday with an ESI-Se interior decorator, doing interior decorating things. Best time I’ve had in a long time.

    I’ve talked to her so much about Socionics that, while she personally hates the idea that people can be put into boxes, she also is beginning to see some truth to it. She sometimes shows me pictures of the people she knows and asks me what I think of them. She’s not going to learn the theory, though.

    She’s a natural psychologist, so she might not need any help in dealing with people. She judges them entirely on how good a friend they are to her. In turn, she can be a very good friend to them.

    She said that I would have more success in dating if I adopted her strategy, which is to judge a person by how well they treat me, and recommended that I get out there in real life and just meet more people.

    I told her that, in the past, I’ve found women who were good friends but bad Socionics matches, and so the friendship went well enough, but the interactions were often bad in a way exactly predicted by Socionics. More recently, I’ve been meeting ESIs who were great Socionics matches, but were bad friends.

    Hey, not all LIEs or ESIs have the same history or the same coping skills.

    I told her that I want both a good Socionics match and a good friend.

    She seems to be both, so I guess I have to add “heterosexual” to that list.

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    I employ an ESI-Se artist as an interior decorator for my house renovation. She’s strong and beautiful and she sleeps with women and if there were two things I’d change in the world, they would be to make her straight and me a lot younger.

    Anyway, she was at the house today to decide on bathroom finishes and she walked into my bedroom and saw a blanket on the bed that my ex-wife made. She knows that my ex-wife made that blanket.
    She came out of the room and said, “You need to get rid of that blanket. It’s hideous.”
    I’ve known her for ten years, so I said, jokingly, “Do you hate that blanket because my ex made it?”
    ”Noooooo”, she insisted. “It’s ugly. No woman would want to sleep in a bed with that blanket. Not that I’m ever going to sleep in that bed, but no one else would, either.”

    WTF?

    I said, ”That blanket is like a weighted blanket. Sometimes I like to sleep with a weighted blanket.”
    ”I’ll buy you a better weighted blanket. Get rid of that one.”

    Sometimes I wonder what she’s thinking. Her thought process is a complete mystery to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I employ an ESI-Se artist as an interior decorator for my house renovation. She’s strong and beautiful and she sleeps with women and if there were two things I’d change in the world, they would be to make her straight and me a lot younger.
    To be honest, it always creeps me out a bit when you say things like this, even though I know that you will refrain from forcing yourself onto her.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Sometimes I wonder what she’s thinking. Her thought process is a complete mystery to me.
    She's thinking exactly what she says she is. That's the beauty of ESIs, they play no mind games. She wants to help you, a good friend, be happy by increasing your dating prospects by replacing that ugly weighted blanket with one that actually looks decent. Because whenever you get along well with a woman and invite her over to your home, if that's the first thing that she'll see it will kill the mood inevitably. I haven't seen the particular blanket, but I side with your ESI interior decorator friend 100% on this. Moreover, you also know yourself that she has a better taste than you, which is why you hire her as your interior decorator and purchase her art.

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    The John Wayne voice thing was too funny lol.

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    Weighted blankets are great. Ugly one needs a facelift, that's what is called a Duvet Cover in the US. Get one!
    Maisy
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    Recommended Music - ILI-Ni



    "And one peculiar point I see,
    As one of the many ones of me.
    As truth is gathered, I rearrange,
    Inside out, outside in, inside out, outside in,
    Perpetual change"


    Yes - The Yes Album - from "Perpetual Change" (written by Howe and Squire)

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    Yesterday, the ESI-Se interior decorator was choosing finishes for the new downstairs bathroom that’s being built. She found some absolutely beautiful tile and a granite shower surround. She also proposed a custom wood folding wall to hide some plumbing.

    The SLI-Te project manager said that he would recommend finishes which would do the exact same job but would be much cheaper.

    I, as the money resource, said that money was not a problem and I’d rather go with the aesthetic vision of the ESI. In an earlier planning meeting, I had said that money reserves are down this month to a level below what is needed to finish this project, but I will find more money in 30 days.

    Later, the ESI was at my standing desk in my study, leaning over the keyboard, looking at kitchen examples, and thinking.
    ”I think you should pay me less”, she said.
    This pissed me off. ”Stop that.
    “Every ESI I’ve ever met undervalues themselves and their contribution to projects. Every. Single. One.”
    ”I know we negotiated a price for my work, and it seemed fair….”
    She was worried that I’m going to run out of money.
    “I’m not going to run out of money.”

    I paused for a minute, considering whether to generalize the conversation.

    ”Let me tell you a secret about LIEs. We take pride in our ability to pay high salaries. It means that we are capable of doing so.”

    ”OK, fine.” She focused on the computer screen. “I love this countertop.”

    While her attention had shifted back to the world of buying beautiful things, I was still thinking about what I’d said. Paying her less would mean that I was less of an LIE. Less capable than I am. Would she wish to be less beautiful, or less understanding of human values?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    While her attention had shifted back to the world of buying beautiful things, I was still thinking about what I’d said. Paying her less would mean that I was less of an LIE. Less capable than I am. Would she wish to be less beautiful, or less understanding of human values?
    You are not your money, Adam. Money is not a personality, it's a tool and it waxes and wanes just like the moon. No-one would think that you are less you when you have less money. Personality is a stable construct, just like intelligence, it all derives from the most intrinsic parts of our brains. Our genes and childhood up to teenage experiences determine our identity most, only if you loss someone very close to you, go through a traumatizing life event, or develop a brain disease or injury does our personality noticeably change, so don't worry too much about it, because you are still you and she is she.

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    The ESI-Se interior decorator and I spent nine very productive hours together yesterday buying stuff for my house. We’d go into a showroom, look around, and simultaneously see some product and would both say “I like that!” Similar Quadra values, similar taste.

    Near the end of the day, we were standing in a field on my property in the country.
    ”You had horses, didn’t you?”, I said.
    ”Yes. All through high school and college.” She had worked for a few years after college and is now in grad school to get the job she wants.
    ”Would you ever want horses again?”
    ”I would! But not just to ride and enjoy. If I had horses, they’d maybe be for therapeutic reasons. I’d rent them out for women to ride them. They’d have to earn their keep.”

    ”Hey, did I tell you? Anna and I are planning to move in together later this year.”
    ”That’s great!”
    ”We’ll be renting at first, and I have so many ideas about arranging the space. Eventually, we could buy a place.” Her voice trailed off. “If it works out between us.”

    Anna is also an ESI, so my ESI-Se decorator would be living with an Identical.
    “My longest relationship living with a roommate was..”
    ”…your wife!”, she interjected.
    Lol.
    “You’re right. But I was about to say a roommate I had after college. He was an Extinguishment partner, and we did nothing together. We extinguished each other’s motivations. All we did after work was sit opposite each other in the living room and smoke weed in silence all evening.”
    ”So you got high together. That’s something.”
    ”That was hell. We got high so we wouldn’t have to interact. We were like two little old ladies, except we didn’t have cats. I hated that time of my life.”

    “I went through about ten girl friends. Then I married my ex-wife, who is my Supervisor. Another bad relationship.
    “I know about 27 guys who are my Identical, and I wouldn’t want to live with any of them. We’re too competitive. The relationship between LIEs lasts until all the relevant information is exchanged, and then we move on.
    ”You ESIs don’t seem to experience that. I know of at least three ESI-ESI relationships. Maybe it has to do with dominant Thinking versus dominant Feeling.”

    The ESI was silent for a while, then said “I don’t feel competitive with you.”

    ”And I don’t feel competitive with you, either. We have fun together. You’re great, actually.”

    She brightened. “I feel like ice cream. Soft serve.”

    ”Then let’s get some.”

    ”Mmmmmm. Summer!” And she smiled.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 06-05-2022 at 01:20 PM.

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