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Thread: The enneagram trifix theory is missing a center: the soul center

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Number 9 large View Post
    She is 9 lol but she thinks is a 4
    You're still a 9 too! A LARGE one.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    You're still a 9 too! A LARGE one.
    Yeah very

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    I don't use tritype anymore BUT my "soul urge" in numerology is 9 so sure why not. 9 is a good number. Maybe you intuitively picked up on my soul urge aka heart's desire number.

    From the numerology site I linked you:

    "Soul Urge 9
    You have a deep need to achieve a higher state of consciousness, teach others how to achieve theirs, and learn to give and receive.

    When you look deep into your core, you have an underlying and pressing need to engage in some sort of humanitarian service. Yours is a spiritual path and you’re here to love unconditionally, however that may manifest in your life. You’re often a hopeless romantic at heart and can set yourself up for disappointment when people don’t measure up to your ideals.

    The number 9 is the number of completion in Numerology. It’s the number of the old soul, of letting go, of releasing attachments, and of loss.

    You’re at your optimal when you’re tapping into your creativity, sensitivity, and selflessness. Beware that others may find that you’re ideas are a little on the cuckoo-side! This Soul Urge number is a powerful one demanding that you learn to transform and heal (both yourself and others) while letting go of the past freely and without bitterness.

    You may find yourself tripping over into the arena of resentment, of intolerance, or gullibility. You may have to deal with enmeshment with your family of origin throughout your life. Your task is to let go of family issues fully and completely. You often feel either resentment toward the family or feel overly responsible for them.

    You need to be aware that people respond much more favorably to you when you connect with them through being a compassionate active listener rather than a preacher, lecturer, or proselytizer. Understand that you can have an intimidating quality to you, despite your big heart. So be careful about how your frame your discussion so that people don’t feel as though you’re patronizing them.

    Some of your internal struggles might include being perceived as arrogant or unapproachable. Realize that everyone thinks you have it all (or have it all together) and so you find it difficult to ask for help or support. It’s not only okay to ask for help, it’s very healing for you.

    You’re truly connecting with your abilities to both give and receive (and usually the receiving part is much harder for you!). Know that your 9 Soul Urge is a profound journey that offers you multifaceted opportunities to touch the lives of others and heal some of your own deepest wounds."
    I associate type 9 with numerology 7. If you relate to soul number 9, the equivalent could be 6w7.

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    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mclane View Post
    I associate type 9 with numerology 7. If you relate to soul number 9, the equivalent could be 6w7.
    I have three 7s and one 9 as core numbers in numerology but they do not sound like enneagram 9 to me. Depending on the position of the 7 it means slightly different things. It is my life path, expression and personality number. The soul number doesn't sound like 6w7 to me. Which descriptions of enneagram do you use most and what makes it sound alike to you? I probably won't respond tonight since I am watching a movie and having dinner now and I am being pushed to get off here.

    "A 7 Life Path is a searcher and a seeker of the truth.

    You have a clear and compelling sense of yourself as a spiritual being. As a result, your life path is devoted to investigations into the unknown, and finding the answers to the mysteries of life.

    You are well-equipped to handle your task. You possess a fine mind; you are an analytical thinker, capable of great concentration and theoretical insight. You enjoy research, and putting the pieces of an intellectual puzzle together. Once you have enough pieces in place, you are capable of highly creative insight and practical solutions to problems.

    "LIFE PATH 7: SOLITUDE AND SOUL SEARCHING

    The 7 Life Path enjoys solitude and prefers to work alone. You need time to contemplate your ideas without the intrusion of other people's thoughts. You are a lone wolf, a person who lives by his own ideas and methods. As a result, close associations are difficult for you to form and keep, especially marriage. You need your space and privacy, which, when violated, can cause you great frustration and irritation.

    When your life is balanced, however, you are both charming and attractive. You can be the life of a party, and enjoy performing before an audience. You enjoy displaying your wit and knowledge, which makes you attractive to others, especially the opposite sex. But you have distinct limits.

    While you are generous in social situations, sharing your attention and energy freely, you are keenly aware of the need to "come off stage" and return to the solitude of your lair. You associate peace with the unobtrusive privacy of your world. Therefore, intimacy is difficult for you, because you guard your inner world like a mother lion does her cubs.

    THE DOWNSIDE OF THE 7'S INWARD FOCUS

    All this privacy and aloneness can cause isolation and loneliness, however. With a 7 Life Path, you can be aware of an emptiness in your life, a part of you that yearns for company and close companionship that may be unsatisfied.

    If isolation is brought to the extreme, you can become cynical and suspicious. You can develop hidden, selfish motives, which people may sense and may cause them discomfort around you.

    You must guard against becoming too withdrawn and independent, thus shutting out the love of others and keeping you from experiencing the true joy of friendship and close companionship. You must especially watch out for selfishness and egocentricity, thinking of yourself as the center of the universe, the only person who really matters. Social contact gives you perspective on yourself and on life, while too much isolation can make you too narrow and even shut off from the rest of the world.

    THE CHALLENGE OF A 7 LIFE PATH

    Secretly, you may feel jealous of the easy relationships formed by others; you may perceive others as less inhibited than you, or more free to express themselves. You may harshly criticize yourself for not being more gregarious, powerful, or capable of greater leadership.

    Your challenge in life is to maintain your independence without feeling isolated or ineffectual. You must hold fast to your unique view on the world, while at the same time being open to others and the knowledge they have to offer.

    With your abilities to learn, analyze, seek out answer's to life's important questions, you have the potential for enormous growth and success in life. By the time you reach middle age, you will radiate refinement and wisdom. Pythagoras loved the seven for its great spiritual potential."
    Last edited by Aylen; 09-13-2019 at 07:39 PM.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



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    Trialectics sounds like a bad attempt to get out of postmodernity. The better way is simply to return to unity. Three is a good number since it turns an unstable figure like a square into a stable one with triangles, but dialectics already have that. I guess a trialectic could mean building tetrahedrons instead of just engaging in "progress" via the dialectic and I've used that concept creatively before, but enneagram doesn't relate to tetrahedrons in any way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Which descriptions of enneagram do you use most and what makes it sound alike to you?
    I tap into the Akashic Records to obtain the information from the source itself


    Depending on the position of the 7 it means slightly different things
    Yeah, that seems to be the case. I have it as my personality number.
    Last edited by mclane; 09-13-2019 at 02:36 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mclane View Post
    I tap into the Akashic Records to obtain the information from the source itself
    Well then, carry on and don't get lost in there! lol

    Yeah, that seems to be the case. I have it as my personality number.
    Cool I have that too, so do some other forum members whose charts I've done. One IEI 4 and one EII-Ne 6. Also a couple others whose charts I don't have on this computer to double check.


    Personality Number 7 – Meaning in Numerology

    In Numerology, the number 7 represents perfection, the perfect integration between the physical and spiritual worlds, thus being the symbol of the changing Universe. But their interpretations go far beyond.

    Want to know the meaning of number 7 in Numerology and the Personality meaning? So, find out now why it is considered the number of mysticism.

    Interesting Facts About Number 7

    The number 7 is associated with spirituality, introspection and occultism, relating to reflection and wisdom, with the search arranged on the mystery of life, on scientific knowledge and on intelligence.

    A person of number 7 can, however, be very inflexible, cranky and quiet, showing sarcasm. He is generally a wise person, who thinks deeply about all things and is interested in mystical matters.

    Although this person looks cool and calculating, the person of number 7 is very demanding, both with herself and with the acquaintances and relatives. She likes neat surroundings, always escapes from noise and agitation and allows herself to stay very concentrated.

    The person of number 7 is a lover of nature and of animals, showing great sensitivity to distinguish between right and wrong, resenting himself too much with any kind of injustice.

    In Numerology, the number 7 has a great importance, mainly because it represents the mystical and occult side.

    Who has the number 7 is guided by the desire to understand the world and people and seek greater development for their spirituality.

    Meaning and Symbolism

    Among all others, the number 7 is the most mystical and most connected to spirituality and to the knowledge of the occult, according to the number of perfection. It can be found in the most diverse rituals, myths and religions.

    The meaning of number 7 in Numerology is associated with magic and the mystical side of things, and can even be found in several cycles of our life, such as the days of the week, the phases of the Moon, the menstrual cycle, the colors of the rainbow and musical notes, among others.

    In this way, everything shows that the number 7 is the bridge between the physical and the spiritual, since it also belongs to the natural phenomena, while demonstrating the mysteries of the Universe. The star is the mystic symbol related to the number 7 and its colors are violet and purple, both intrinsic to spirituality.

    As a stone, the 7 has the amethyst, mineral also known for its characteristics of developing mental abilities and openness of spirit to new knowledge and experiences.

    A person of number 7 needs to take some care not to unbalance his own energies in function of the others. Because you are very fond of helping, you may not realize that you are getting involved in problems that are not part of your life.

    Being very attached to spirituality, the person of number 7 also has the ability to influence the mystical and psychic capacities of other people, since it is easier to understand the feelings of others with their keen intuition.

    The person of number 7 will always seek better explanations or means to fill an existential void, seeking guidance to understand the chaos of the Universe. His spiritual progress must be sought in reconciling his intellectual side with his intuition.

    --------------------------------------------------------------

    This is Hans Decoz interpretation of personalty 7. I own his software and took his classes so I usually use his.


    PERSONALITY

    Your Personality number is derived from the consonants of your full
    name at birth
    . Your Personality is like a narrow entrance hall to the
    great room that is your true nature. It is those aspects that you feel
    comfortable sharing with people at the outset of a relationship. With
    time and trust, you invite others into the deeper aspects of your nature;
    you reveal more of who you really are, in effect, your Heart's Desire,
    Expression, and so on.
    Your Personality number often serves as a censoring device, both in
    terms of what you send out, as well as what you allow to approach. It
    discriminates in the kinds of people and information you let enter your
    heart and mind. For this reason, your Personality is usually much more
    narrow and protective in its definition than the real you. It can screen
    out some of what you do not want to deal with -- people or situations --
    but it also welcomes those things that immediately relate to your inner
    nature.
    Your Personality number also indicates how others perceive you. No
    one can be objective about himself or herself. Even our closest friends
    and relatives have trouble describing how they see us.
    [...]

    Personality 7

    "You seem mysterious and different. People see you as serious
    and studious. You are highly independent and self- sufficient. Your
    exceptional intelligence and wisdom are quickly noticed, people respect
    you. You are not one to attract people on the basis of your warmth or
    compassion -- though you may be loaded with both -- but because of
    your obvious insight into life's mysteries.

    You are hard to get to know. You are often withdrawn. It is common
    for people to see your focus turn inside of yourself in the middle of a
    conversation.

    You have the makings of an intellectual and an aristocrat but you
    have to guard against arrogance and an attitude of, "I've got it all
    figured out".

    There have been periods in your life when you had little concern for
    your clothing or fashion, while at other times you are very aware of
    your clothing and use it to make a specific impression.
    You appear dignified no matter how you dress., but a well groomed
    seven with a touch of dash definitely has an advantage. Your confidence
    increases when you know you are well dressed.

    You are recognized as spiritual and religious, with your very
    own ideas regarding the purpose of life and the Creator.
    You are an inspired speaker, but only when discussing subjects that
    really interest you. Otherwise, you are not one for chatter.
    Your love of knowledge and wisdom shows. "


    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



  8. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Well then, carry on and don't get lost in there! lol


    Cool I have that too, so do some other forum members whose charts I've done. One IEI 4 and one EII-Ne 6. Also a couple others whose charts I don't have on this computer to double check.


    Personality Number 7 – Meaning in Numerology

    In Numerology, the number 7 represents perfection, the perfect integration between the physical and spiritual worlds, thus being the symbol of the changing Universe. But their interpretations go far beyond.

    Want to know the meaning of number 7 in Numerology and the Personality meaning? So, find out now why it is considered the number of mysticism.

    Interesting Facts About Number 7

    The number 7 is associated with spirituality, introspection and occultism, relating to reflection and wisdom, with the search arranged on the mystery of life, on scientific knowledge and on intelligence.

    A person of number 7 can, however, be very inflexible, cranky and quiet, showing sarcasm. He is generally a wise person, who thinks deeply about all things and is interested in mystical matters.

    Although this person looks cool and calculating, the person of number 7 is very demanding, both with herself and with the acquaintances and relatives. She likes neat surroundings, always escapes from noise and agitation and allows herself to stay very concentrated.

    The person of number 7 is a lover of nature and of animals, showing great sensitivity to distinguish between right and wrong, resenting himself too much with any kind of injustice.

    In Numerology, the number 7 has a great importance, mainly because it represents the mystical and occult side.

    Who has the number 7 is guided by the desire to understand the world and people and seek greater development for their spirituality.

    Meaning and Symbolism

    Among all others, the number 7 is the most mystical and most connected to spirituality and to the knowledge of the occult, according to the number of perfection. It can be found in the most diverse rituals, myths and religions.

    The meaning of number 7 in Numerology is associated with magic and the mystical side of things, and can even be found in several cycles of our life, such as the days of the week, the phases of the Moon, the menstrual cycle, the colors of the rainbow and musical notes, among others.

    In this way, everything shows that the number 7 is the bridge between the physical and the spiritual, since it also belongs to the natural phenomena, while demonstrating the mysteries of the Universe. The star is the mystic symbol related to the number 7 and its colors are violet and purple, both intrinsic to spirituality.

    As a stone, the 7 has the amethyst, mineral also known for its characteristics of developing mental abilities and openness of spirit to new knowledge and experiences.

    A person of number 7 needs to take some care not to unbalance his own energies in function of the others. Because you are very fond of helping, you may not realize that you are getting involved in problems that are not part of your life.

    Being very attached to spirituality, the person of number 7 also has the ability to influence the mystical and psychic capacities of other people, since it is easier to understand the feelings of others with their keen intuition.

    The person of number 7 will always seek better explanations or means to fill an existential void, seeking guidance to understand the chaos of the Universe. His spiritual progress must be sought in reconciling his intellectual side with his intuition.

    --------------------------------------------------------------

    This is Hans Decoz interpretation of personalty 7. I own his software and took his classes so I usually use his.


    PERSONALITY

    Your Personality number is derived from the consonants of your full
    name at birth
    . Your Personality is like a narrow entrance hall to the
    great room that is your true nature. It is those aspects that you feel
    comfortable sharing with people at the outset of a relationship. With
    time and trust, you invite others into the deeper aspects of your nature;
    you reveal more of who you really are, in effect, your Heart's Desire,
    Expression, and so on.
    Your Personality number often serves as a censoring device, both in
    terms of what you send out, as well as what you allow to approach. It
    discriminates in the kinds of people and information you let enter your
    heart and mind. For this reason, your Personality is usually much more
    narrow and protective in its definition than the real you. It can screen
    out some of what you do not want to deal with -- people or situations --
    but it also welcomes those things that immediately relate to your inner
    nature.
    Your Personality number also indicates how others perceive you. No
    one can be objective about himself or herself. Even our closest friends
    and relatives have trouble describing how they see us.
    [...]

    Personality 7

    "You seem mysterious and different. People see you as serious
    and studious. You are highly independent and self- sufficient. Your
    exceptional intelligence and wisdom are quickly noticed, people respect
    you. You are not one to attract people on the basis of your warmth or
    compassion -- though you may be loaded with both -- but because of
    your obvious insight into life's mysteries.

    You are hard to get to know. You are often withdrawn. It is common
    for people to see your focus turn inside of yourself in the middle of a
    conversation.

    You have the makings of an intellectual and an aristocrat but you
    have to guard against arrogance and an attitude of, "I've got it all
    figured out".

    There have been periods in your life when you had little concern for
    your clothing or fashion, while at other times you are very aware of
    your clothing and use it to make a specific impression.
    You appear dignified no matter how you dress., but a well groomed
    seven with a touch of dash definitely has an advantage. Your confidence
    increases when you know you are well dressed.

    You are recognized as spiritual and religious, with your very
    own ideas regarding the purpose of life and the Creator.
    You are an inspired speaker, but only when discussing subjects that
    really interest you. Otherwise, you are not one for chatter.
    Your love of knowledge and wisdom shows. "

    Yeah, I would imagine a 7 personality to be some sort of INxx (most likely INFJ, probably scores as such in MBTI).

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    Quote Originally Posted by mclane View Post
    I'm not saying it's incorrect, I'm saying it's incomplete. The trifix was discovered much later by somebody; I've now discovered that it was missing the soul, that's it. If the trifix is an imaginary triangle linking three of the types of the enneagram, adding the soul it is actually a pyramid with the soul at the top.
    With regards to Gurdjieff, you have to understand that to him what you are calling the soul was not present in most people. It could only be present in someone who had attainted what he called liberation, everyone else was a machine.

    Fourth Way, Gurdjieff's teaching is based on what he identified as three paths found across the world, the way of the Fakir, focused on the physical body and its mastery, the way of the Monk, based on faith and emotion, and the way of the Yogi, focused on the mind. This is where the idea of "three centers" comes from. In Gurdjieff's use of the Enneagram you didn't have a core type, you could be on a different point of the enneagram at different times of day depending on where your attention was focused. His model was to unite the way of the Fakir, Yogi, and Monk in an individual, so that all three centers were balanced and this was called "The Fourth Way to Consciousness". What you are calling the soul here could be what Gurdjieff called Consciousness, the attainment of which was the goal of his teaching. Basically, to unite all three centers would lead you to the top of the pyramid, to borrow your image, but this is not easy work and is not innate or natural in humans.

    I don't know what this adds to your topic, but I was reading Gurdjieff earlier and since he was brought up I think its necessary to clarify what his teaching was (in a very superficial manner as I am doing here) since it is important to know the origins of ideas, since they reveal clues to the nature of those ideas. Afterwards you can modify these ideas as you wish, but I think its good to know why they are structued the way they are. For what it's worth.
    Last edited by Uncle Ave; 09-15-2019 at 10:47 AM. Reason: Had confused the way of the Yogi and the way of Monk, fixed now


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    you're missing the point in that the enneagram is a personality theory, which is separate from the "soul". a soul does not have personality traits.

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    Quote Originally Posted by maniac View Post
    you're missing the point in that the enneagram is a personality theory, which is separate from the "soul". a soul does not have personality traits.
    And you affirm this how? How do you know the soul can't be typed?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mclane View Post
    And you affirm this how? How do you know the soul can't be typed?
    How do you define "the soul"?
    "The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools." ―Thucydides



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    Quote Originally Posted by Remiel View Post
    How do you define "the soul"?
    Another aspect of a person like the body, mind, and heart.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mclane View Post
    Another aspect of a person like the body, mind, and heart.
    No. Let me educate you. Teeth are the hard, whitey and bitey thingies in your mouth. That is one way of defining an aspect of a person. What what im asking you is how you define the soul.

    A definition: 1. state or describe exactly the nature, scope, or meaning of.
    2. mark out the boundary or limits of.

    This is your lesson of the day.
    "The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools." ―Thucydides



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    Quote Originally Posted by Remiel View Post
    No. Let me educate you. Teeth are the hard, whitey and bitey thingies in your mouth. That is one way of defining an aspect of a person. What what im asking you is how you define the soul.

    A definition: 1. state or describe exactly the nature, scope, or meaning of.
    2. mark out the boundary or limits of.

    This is your lesson of the day.
    Okay, so you don't believe in the soul.

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    @maniac , @Remiel, I hope you are not expecting me to do dissertation here and try to convince you of the existence of the soul. I have better things to do. It's just that I consider it self-evident. You don't ? That's your problem, not mine. Btw with these emphasis on definitions you are sounding like alpha types. ILI wouldn't care about this issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mclane View Post
    @maniac , @Remiel, I hope you are not expecting me to do dissertation here and try to convince you of the existence of the soul. I have better things to do. It's just that I consider it self-evident. You don't ? That's your problem, not mine. Btw with these emphasis on definitions you are sounding like alpha types. ILI wouldn't care about this issue.
    When I talk about the mind it's a given that I talk about the psychological aspects that are the result of physical neurology, gray matter to you. Neurons fire when they reach action potential, for example. You can't just drop a term like soul and expect everyone to know what you're talking about. Even the term vibe is more concrete.

    Also, ending with some pissant attempt to jab at my type aint making you look any better.
    "The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools." ―Thucydides



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    I don’t think “soul” is really definable but it would be nice to at least have a rough definition. I think that since there are some “types” of souls that people talk about that could be a starting point. Ex. when someone’s an “old soul” or if someone has, as Ursula would say, a “poor, unfortunate soul”. What I really think people mean to say when they throw around the word “soul”, is someone’s character. Evil, angelic, old, broken, whatever. You’re describing how someone is.
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    Tbh, I don't really know what the soul is. I believe it is some sort of invisible thing that processes/carries information, and carries over from one incarnation to the next. It is also our connection to 'source". AkuManiMani said that the soul is the combined motivations and preferences that make up a person, but I believe this has more to do with Fi. The soul I think actually is linked to Ni. Wish I had a better answer but if I'd had discovered what the soul was exactly I would probably have won the Nobel price (or maybe not, given the decline of spirituality of the present age).

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    Quote Originally Posted by mclane View Post
    The soul I think actually is linked to Ni.
    I always knew LSEs and ESEs had no souls.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy View Post
    I always knew LSEs and ESEs had no souls.
    The soul I believe is also a sort of "GPS" that guides you towards your destiny and/or deeper desires. In this sense, it is diametrically opposed to " forcing" your way into reality, which is how some types prefer to conduct themselves. In particular I believe the soul is linked with +Ni, which is a function that gamma and delta quadra value (as per model B). So it is reasonable to think that the ones that are less focused on this aspect of reality would be the more "soulless" types. These would be LSI and ESE (who have -Ne/+Ni as PoLR). Note that soulless in this sense does not imply evil or negative in some way; it simply means that these types prefer to follow their own preferences in a down-to-earth way instead of hearing or following the calling of their +Ni (which does not mean that they are exempt from their effects; the fact that you do not value something does not mean that it ceases to exist).

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    Number 9 large's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy View Post
    I always knew LSEs and ESEs had no souls.
    Cmon they are very caring

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    Quote Originally Posted by Number 9 large View Post
    Cmon they are very caring
    It's all a big trap to lure you into dependency so they can torture and feed off your misery.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy View Post
    It's all a big trap to lure you into dependency so they can torture and feed off your misery.
    I second this.
    And I'm what you desire, like a siren in the night



    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall
    Everyone, pls give Bled some likes. He craves the likes much like Suedehead craves the cock.
    7w6 2w3 8w9 - The Free Spirit

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    Something I've been observing: another parameter that belongs to each center I believe is Alignment (the D&D style alignment). For instance; someone could be Neutral Good in their Heart Center (as main center), True Neutral in their Head Center (as second center), and Chaotic Evil in their Gut Center (and something else in their soul center). This is experimental for now but I think it's true. It could explain variations and multi-layering of personality.

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    I would love to hear more theories like this.

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    Wait, @Number 9 large is a 9 sle’s can be 9’s

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