Can an INFj be not-so-empathic-and-nice?
Now, according to Model A, I Found myself mostly relating to INFj functions. But then I look at the descriptions and...its not like me??!!
I'm not saying I am a bad person but I am, for sure, not as angelic as the descriptions say lol.
a two horned unicorn renegade
Hmm well I see myself as someone who doesnt really express herself, hiding feelings but I'm not happy about it. I have shy qualities sometimes and it makes me not sure of who I really am. Expressing myself is really important to me.
I am not so closed-off, I mean I am an open-book in most situations. I don't have a lot to hide.
I tend to be very selfish and so in my head to focus on others...it makes me feel like a bad person.
Of course being nice is a good thing but being TOO nice can be seen as...weak, easily manipulated :/
do all of this exclude being EII?
@koffee, your self-description actually comes closer to who I think EII’s really are than any written description I’ve seen.
Yes, EII’s can seem outwardly nice, but I’ve known a couple males, and two females just ending their marriages to jerks, and when push comes to shove, EII’s can be real hard-asses. This is almost never seen, but it is clear as day to me.
Consider this: EII’s are duals to the LSE’s, who themselves can be incredible blockheads (low Ne) and jerks (low Fi). How do types hold their own against their duals? By having access to the same functions. They just have those functions at different strengths and so normally complement the dual and they appear to be very different, but both are fundamentally on the same wavelength.
So when the LSE bull with no foresight starts bellowing and crashing into the walls because no one loves him and he can’t figure out what to do about that, the EII is going to head straight for him and tell him in no uncertain terms to settle down. That is not the response of a wallflower, it is the response of a person who knows very well right from wrong and isn’t going to put up with bad behavior.
Last edited by Adam Strange; 08-14-2019 at 02:13 PM.
I know an INFJ who’s immature, bratty, selfish, and generally pretty stupid, if it’s any help. Her Fi is more channeled into a narcissistic obsession with herself and acting “cool”/unique rather than empathy with others.
Type descriptions are inherently idealistic, but they tend to be positive, I think, for the reason that most people are more willing to relate to their good sides, such as they are, than their bad. There are crappy people of any type though.
Last edited by FreelancePoliceman; 08-15-2019 at 02:52 PM.
you'd better made a typing thread with video to get opinions if you doubt in the type
your avatar, at least, has more associations with INFP / IEI
sure you _may_ to have other type than you think now. today typing methods are not accurate and you need skills to use them relatively good. it will not be absolute good even after years of practice
also non-Jung-types factors may change the behavior to more or lesser common for your type. descriptions are about abstract average, real people have variations
also depends on IR. for people in good IR you'll be generally nice even when are not so nice objectively. IR much work irrationally and this influences on how you are perceived. IR show much a possibility - so you may behave not good, but some people may like you and see as nice as their unconsciousness says "he mb very good, just some issues to get that"
I haven't met an INFj who truly seemed empathetic; they can be very perceptive of people but cannot easily put themselves in the shoes of others unless they've personally undergone very similar circumstances. Being nice is more a function of upbringing, influences and experience - not type; I've seen angels and demons of all types. More than any other type, INFjs seem to have strong opinions about the behaviour and or beliefs of others but they don't often express these opinions directly although one can sometimes detect their discontentment through very frigid body language - they seem to become even more distant than they normally are.....
Some EIIs are empathetic. Some are self-absorbed.
Every type has different levels of maturity and different levels of kindness.
Originally Posted by Ritella
Originally Posted by Aquagraph
all F types mb said as empathic compared to T types as they are concentrated on feelings of other people, the same as T types on what people think from logical point and reason
Originally Posted by Director Abbie
Fi compared to Fe also more care about pleasant emotions in others, try to do not hurt others. same as T types try to make people more reasonable
it's about average. true for the most of them in common situations
they are perceived as soft and polite people which avoid to press or annoy others
some Fi ego people may to have psyche issues including higher egocentrism, higher irritability, lower IQ to behave lesser appropriate. may distance emotionally from someones in some situations by external factors. this may reduce empathy and compassion in them, to make them more rude and indifferent. also E8 and w8 seems may add to this
> Every type has different levels of maturity and different levels of kindness.
people have different traits besides Jung types and different external factors influence on their behavior
this may lead to different levels of kindness
also, as I've noticed, the perception of a human is subjective. the same one will be evaluated differently. IR theory is one of examples of this. for example, Fe ego people is harder to perceive as "kind" for Te types
Just like you can commonly see Se egos who are weak and fat, or a Te ego being factually inaccurate, you can commonly see Fi egos who are immoral and unempathetic if they aren't on top of their game with their ego functions.
a two horned unicorn renegade
@Heretic 007 Mirriam-Webster defines empathetic as: "the action of understanding, being aware of, being sensitive to, and vicariously experiencing the feelings, thoughts, and experience of another of either the past or present without having the feelings, thoughts, and experience fully communicated in an objectively explicit manner".
All the INFjs (and Ijs) that I've met seemed not truly capable of "vicariously experiencing the feelings, thoughts, and experience of another"; although very understanding of the situation, sympathetic and wanting to help, they seem to remain rather detached, which is an asset in many situations. If you have met those who've jumped in with both feet, then I stand corrected but it would seem somewhat counter to their processing needs........
Someone put this is a type description. Very accurate.
Originally Posted by Rebelondeck
Originally Posted by Rebelondeck
I think 3D Fe can still vicariously experience someone's feelings, but they aren't understood, more so just felt. Like someone is sad about something that we wouldn't be sad about, we don't understand why they are sad, we don't understand why that makes them sad, but we can feel their sadness, BUT it is secondary to our own current feeling and not as prioritized.
Like when someone is sad I do feel a natural tendency to want to console the person, but I don't drown in the sadness myself, it feels separate from me, while Fe egos I think they absorb the emotions so much they can't tell the difference between their own and another's.
But I have equal capacity to be selfish, cold and shut off as I do to be sympathetic. It's a choice for me. I imagine for Fe egos it's less of a choice and moreso that they are so compelled by the emotions of another that they fully empathize with them.
@Lord Pixel I don't visualize the Fe-processes as you seem to but yes, Fe-types seem to, at times, almost automatically place themselves in the shoes of others and can get swept up into their rationalization processes. I don't see them "absorbing emotions" but sometimes producing almost exact facsimiles, most certainly.....and they don't seem to have that Fi-detachment that easily facilitates, as you describe, "a choice"......
Which descriptions are you reading?
Some are really.... a product of their time. A lot of them I've read have a hard gender bias, specially towards females.
Fi egos are not "nice" as in putting up a smile towards everything that is going on, as to not disturb others.
I consider myself to be a nice and empathetic person, but through my Fi (relational) POV. I care about humanity as whole, yes; but I don't owe people emotional labour. That being said, empathy is a big deal for me, but its display might not be what people expect.
So yes; you can be EII and not be caricature of being oh-so-nice and oh-so-empathetic.
Speaking of which, I've met some pretty edgy EIIs.