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Thread: Bernie Sanders

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    Default Bernie Sanders

    I was just reading this:

    https://www.oregonlive.com/today/201..._self-reg.html

    And I think voting for a very tempered-down self-professed socialist might be the way to go even though I don't want to see all the immature 30-year-old "kids" use the state to take free stuff and restrain the actual free market and have trucks ship red polo shirts and defective state-owned SickleCell flip phones to all the good comrades (I doubt either of these will happen to any significant extent though.) The Autist Generation of Developmentally-Delayed Babies I mean the Me Generation of Baby Boomers must fall and if we're going to be really explicit, old white guy Bernie is the only serious candidate so far who isn't an autistic baby, which I think more than outweighs the potential for college students and young adults in basements to abuse the welfare state and economic planning. Discuss.

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    A Sanders Administration would be forced to the center anyway. Leftists in the USA tend to end up governing more from the center.

    Personally I'd rather see Tulsi get the nomination. Her foreign policy views are a little more grounded in reality and pragmatism than are Bernie's.

    Honestly it will probably end up something like 2008, a repeat of Clinton versus Obama. Only this time it will probably be Biden in Clinton's place and someone like Castro, Harris or Booker as the usurper. Buttigieg will likely end up VP choice if Booker or Harris is nominated, as he will balance the ticket as a white guy from the Midwest. Dems are obsessed with "balanced tickets".

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    Bernie isn't a far leftist as he appears, he's actually a center leftist when you look outside of the US. Economically, he still wants the US to remain capitalist (democratic socialism is a misnomer). He just wants to introduce some socialist elements into capitalism via social democracy (nordic model). Socially, he's actually more of a centrist and he wants to enforce borders and a nation state (not that different from Trump minus the wall).

    I like how he says open borders/mass immigration is a right wing neoconservative Koch brothers proposal and he endorses a nation state here. He's clearly smart enough to know that a welfare state with open borders/mass immigration is basically incompatible:

    Last edited by Raver; 07-27-2019 at 03:10 AM.
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    In (actual) socialism everyone is guaranteed and given a job by the state. People living in their parent's basement jobless and collecting welfare is only a phenomenon that occurs in social democracy/welfare capitalism, which is one of the reasons I support full blown communism over left-leaning centrist like Bernie.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raver View Post
    Bernie isn't a far leftist as he appears, he's actually a center leftist when you look outside of the US. Economically, he still wants the the US remain capitalist (democratic socialism is a misnomer). He just wants to introduce some socialist elements into capitalism via social democracy (nordic model). Socially, he's actually more of a centrist and he wants to enforce borders and a nation state (not that different from Trump minus the wall).

    I like how he says open borders/mass immigration is a right wing neoconservative Koch brothers proposal and he endorses a nation state here. He's clearly smart enough to know that a welfare state with open borders/mass immigration is basically incompatible:

    I do think the people who say socialism will be merged with capitalism are correct so I do think Bernie has a far leftist ideology, I just don't think it's going to be a completely disastrous one unless too many college students use it for free stuff or it becomes a bad precedent for unreasonable ideologies solely by being just as superficially farfetched.

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    I'm cynical about a lot of things, but I can't be cynical about Bernie. He is Christ's return.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy View Post
    In (actual) socialism everyone is guaranteed and given a job by the state. People living in their parent's basement jobless and collecting welfare is only a phenomenon that occurs in social democracy/welfare capitalism, which is one of the reasons I support full blown communism over left-leaning centrist like Bernie.
    It seems like the state would halt innovation though. Large corporations are already doing that, so the answer isn't to kiss their behinds even more, but I still don't see state bureaucracy being somehow even slightly more innovative.

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    Quote Originally Posted by coeruleum View Post
    It seems like the state would halt innovation though. Large corporations are already doing that, so the answer isn't to kiss their behinds even more, but I still don't see state bureaucracy being somehow even slightly more innovative.
    I let this list of USSR inventions speak for itself. Keep in mind, when the USSR was first established they had about the same levels of literacy and overall economic development as Brazil.

    SCIENTIFIC-TECHNOLOGICAL ACHIEVEMENTS:
    SPACE :

    • Tata Sky Development System (direct broadcast satellite)
    • Prime spacesuit, CH-1 (1931)
    • First multistage rocket (1947)
    • Creating the staged combustion (1949)
    • First spaceport, Baikonur Cosmodrome (1957)
    • First orbiting satellite, Sputnik 1 (1957)
    • First living being in orbit, the dog Laika on Sputnik 2 (1957)
    • First man-made object to leave the Earth's orbit, Luna 1 (1959)
    • First telemetry communication to and from off the ground, Luna 1 (1959)
    • First object to pass near the moon, and the first object in solar orbit Luna 1 (1959)
    • First satellite hit the moon, Luna 2 (1959)
    • First images of the dark side of the moon, Luna 3 (1959)
    • First satellite to be launched to Mars, Marsnik 1 (1960)
    • First rocket boots (1960)
    • Creating space food (1961)
    • First satellite to Venus, Venera 1 (1961)
    • First person to enter orbit around the Earth, Yuri Gagarin in Vostok 1 (1961)
    • First person to spend one day in orbit, Gherman Titov, Vostok 2 (1961)
    • First double flight, manned Vostok 3 and Vostok 4 (1962)
    • First probe on Mars, Mars 1 (1962) made ​​the first pictures of Mars from space
    • First woman in space, Valentina Tereshkova, Vostok 6 (1963)
    • Multitripulado first flight (3 persons), Voskhod 1 (1964)
    • First spacewalk EVA, by Aleksei Leonov, Voskhod 2 (1965)
    • First probe to hit another planet Venus, Venera 3 (1965)
    • First probe landing on the moon and transmitted from there, Luna 9 (1966)
    • First probe into lunar orbit, Luna 10 (1966)
    • Creation of the Soviet Soyuz spacecraft model (1967), which is the only way that NASA and ESA send astronauts into space
    • First space bathroom (1967)
    • First meeting and unmanned docking, Cosmos 186/Cosmos 188 (1967) until 2006 this feat was not mimicked by the USA
    • Close coupling and exchange of crew in orbit, Soyuz 4 and Soyuz 5 (1969)
    • First extraterrestrial samples returned by Luna 16 (1970)
    • First robot on a celestial body, Lunokhod 1 (1970)
    • First probe to Venus, Venera 7 (1970)
    • First data received from a probe on another planet (Venus), Venera 7 (1970)
    • First space station, Salyut 1 (1971)
    • First satellite to orbit Mars and make a descent, Mars 2 (1971)
    • Second robot on a celestial body, Lunokhod 2 (1973) and with the Lunokhod 1 is the only automated mobile laboratories that have explored the Moon guided by remote control
    • First satellite to orbit Venus and send data back to Earth Venera 9 (1975)
    • Creation of the coupling mechanism and docking of spacecraft, Androgynous Peripheral Attach System (1975)
    • Creating space shuttle Buran (1976), which can carry 30 tons (USA model only 25), return flights with load of 20 tons (USA only 15), with a support rate of 6.5 (compared to 5.5 of the USA model), its auxiliary maneuvering system rockets and use oxygen and kerosene fuel instead of solid (like the USA) and gives better performance. Besides the Buran shuttle could make unmanned missions (USA can't), with ejection seats (the USA model does not have) considered the safest and most effective of the history and design more effective and resilient thermal tiles that USA version
    • Creating the world's most powerful rocket: Energy (1976), capable of carrying 100 tons
    • First Spaceship supply unmanned, Progress (1978)
    • First radio telescope (1979)
    • First woman to walk in space , Svetlana Savitskaja in Salyut 7 (1984)
    • First shuttle in orbit to Earth independently, Buran (1984)
    • First multi module space station: Salyut 7 and Kosmos 1686 (TKS-4) (1985)
    • First crew to visit two space stations, Mir and Salyut 7 (1986) aboard Soyuz T-15
    • First permanent space station to orbit Earth, Mir (1986)
    • First crew to spend over a year on Mir, Vladimir Titov and Musa Manarov (1987)

    PHYSICS :

    • First nuclear power plant, Obninsk (1954)
    • Development of the largest thermonuclear experimental facility in the world, Tokamak 10, prototype of a thermonuclear reactor
    • Invention of the Tzar Bomba, the most powerful nuclear bomb in history (100 Mt) whose power was reduced for environmental reasons (50-57 Mt). Comparison to USA bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki 15 Mt
    • Invention of nuclear fusion
    • Invention of the Tokamak (1956), aiming to provide apparatus fusion plasma particle
    • Invention of the first nuclear icebreaker "LENIN" world's first nuclear-powered (1952)
    • Invention of particle accelerator microtron (1944)
    • Invention synchrotron particle accelerator (1957)
    • Invention of the electron paramagnetic resonance spectroscopy (1944)
    • First fast neutron reactor, BN350 (1955)
    • Creation pipeline longest history, Druzhba (1964)
    • First nuclear desalination reactor, BN-350 (1972)
    • First reflectron (1973)
    • Creating the largest geotechnical probe history, Kola Well (1970)
    • Creating BARS Press (1989)






    PART TWO
    ELECTRONICS:

    • Invention of the LED (Oleg Vladimirovich, 1927) (So if you're reading this on an LED screen, you have Commies to thank.)
    • Invention of vibratory exercise equipment (1960)
    • Perfecting maser, Basov and Aleksandr Prokhorov Nikolai
    • Lomography Invention (1982)
    • First lie detector device, by Alexander Romanovich Luria
    • Creating underwater welding, Konstantin Khrenov (1932)
    • First reflector telescope, the Maksutov (1941)
    • First laser microphone (1947)
    • Creating the magnetotelluric (1950)
    • Discovery of the Belousov-Zhabotinski Reaction (1951)
    • Creation explosive compression generator pumped flow (1951)
    • Creating 3D holography (1962)
    • First microwave oven (1941)
    • First radio antenna

    MEDICINE:

    • Invention of therapies against infectious diseases that were based on bacteriophage virus (1940)
    • Early surgical treatment of congenital heart disease, by pioneering Bukulev Alexander (1948)
    • Creation of Objective Psychology, by neurologist Vladimir Bekhterev, also known for pointing out the role of the hippocampus in memory, his study of reflexes, and Bekhterev's disease
    • First successful cornea transplant in 1931, by Vladimir Filatov, who developed tissue therapy
    • Creating radial keratotomy by Svyatoslav Nikolayevich Fyodorov
    • Creating the Ilizarov apparatus for lengthening limb bones and for the Ilizarov Surgery (1951) by Gavriil Abramovich Ilizarov
    • Creating cultural-historical psychology, psychological activity theory and method of "combined power", by Alexander Romanovich Luria
    • Enlarge criteria for the diagnosis of schizophrenia with the distinction between negative and positive symptoms, a key research and classification of schizophrenia concept, Andrei Snezhnevsky
    • First cardiac surgery under local anesthesia, Alexander Vishnevsky, 1953
    • Foundation of purulent surgery, Archbishop Luka Voyno-Yasenetsky, Stalin Prize, Nobel Prize in Medicine in 1946.
    • Discovery of Cherenkov Effect (Pavel Cherenkov Alekseyecih)
    • First artificial organ transplant
    • First transfusion of blood from a corpse, Sergei Yudin, 1929.
    • First blood bank. Created by Sergei Yudin in early 1930. Middle of that same year, the USSR would have 65 large blood donation centers and more than 500 branches.
    • Creation of painless childbirth (under anesthesia)
    • Creating Gramicina S (1942)
    • First head transplant with full brain function (1950)
    • Creating anthropometric cosmetology (1952)
    • Creating radial keratotomy (1974)
    • Discovery of Vitamins
    • Discovery of the virus
    • First acoustic microscope (1959)

    COMPUTERS:

    • First programmable computer MESM (1950)
    • First Soviet and European electronic computers , BESM (Sergey Lebedev, 1951) and MESM (Sergey Lebedev , 1958)
    • First computer with ternary logic (faster and more reliable than the binary system), Setun (Nikolai Brusentsov, 1958) and model development Setun-70 (Nikolai Brusentsov, 1970) which further reinforced the aspect of programming, improving to by a factor 5 software development over other architectures time
    • First personal computer, MIR (Victor Glushkov, 1965)
    • First computer-aided education system in history (Nastavnik), with a clear reference to the current
    • First superscalar computer (processor microarchitecture capable of executing more than one instruction per clock cycle), Elbrus-1 (Boris Babaian, 1970). The use of this equipment in 1978, ten years before commercial applications appeared in the West, the Soviet Union developed its missile systems and nuclear and space programs.
    • Foundation of cybernetics (Victor Glushkov)
    • Invention of Tetris (Alexey Pajitnov, 1984)
    • Invention of the FAR file manager, RAR and WinRAR format file (Eugene Roshal)
    • First mobile phone, Leonid Ivanovich Kupriyanovich (1955), which was copied by - the USA in 1970 and Finland in 1980 gave him a civil use with Nokia.






    PART THREE
    MILITARY:

    • First multiple rocket launcher, the Katyusha rocket launcher (1939)
    • Creating the largest and most powerful in the world single-rotor helicopter, the Mil Mi-26 (1981)
    • Creating the Sikorsky S -64 Skycrane, able to lift more cargo than any other in history
    • Ekranoplano Creation (1950), similar to an airplane that uses the influence of the "ground effect" over the sea to just not consume fuel and carry 500 tons.
    • Creating the world's largest aircraft, capable of carrying 225 tonnes, the Antonov 225 (1980)
    • First telemechanical plane
    • First supersonic passenger plane, TU-144
    • First (and only) aircraft powered by a nuclear reactor, TU- 119
    • First (and only) space fighter aircraft built, the MIG-105, capable of knocking launchers , missiles and enemy satellites in space and back.
    • Creating the MIG-25 fighter jet with absolute altitude record (37.650 m), rise time from 0 to 30 km (3 min 10 s), speed circuit 500 km (2981.5 km/h)
    • First (and only) seaplane world operating reactors, Beriev BE-200
    • First ship to explore the North Pole, NS Arktika (1972)
    • Creating the most produced biplane in history, the Polikarpov Po-2 (1927)
    • Creating the Ilyushin Il-2, the most produced aircraft in history.
    • First hydrofoil, Raketa (1957)
    • First ship missile, Komar (1959)
    • Creating faster and able to dive deeper in history (1300 m), the Alpha class nuclear submarine. I just needed a crew of 27 people (compared to the 110 that need an american model, Los Angeles) as it was very automated.
    • Creating the largest submarine in history, the Typhoon class, only in carry 5 helmets (which makes it support several torpedo hits before being knocked out) and unique history in bringing certain luxuries like individual cabin, gym, pool, sauna, lounges, etc.
    • First tank with composite armor, the first to incorporate an autoloader, first tank missile launch: T64
    • First military robot; the Tt -26 ( 1949), a remote controlled tanks to minimize human casualties; equipped with DT machine guns, flamethrowers, smoke grenades and sometimes with a bomb between 200-700 kg which was released near the refuge to destroy enemy bunkers up to four levels underground. Was also trained to carry chemical weapons, but not used for safety and environmentalism.
    • First flamethrower tank in history, KHT-26 (1931)
    • First tank with wings, Antonov A-40 (1942)
    • Creating the best and most produced tank of World War II: T-34 (1940)
    • Creating the most produced tank in history, T-54/55 (1945)
    • Close reactive armor (1960)
    • Close reactive armor capable of protecting against APFSDS ammunition (armor piercing), 1985
    • First infantry fighting vehicle in history (BMP-1 created in 1961) in addition to NBC protection, anti-tank, amphibious capability and launchable parachute with a 73 mm cannon, anti-tank missile launcher and 3 PKT machine guns. It was badly copied in 1980 (20 years later) by the USA, to get their first IFV, giving birth to the M2/M3 Bradley. It was 16.5 tons heavier than its counterpart BMP-1 with less crew and with a much smaller (and without missile capability) cannon.
    • First paratroopers forces with military use of history in 1930, being also fully mechanized his paratroopers with BMD (launchable parachute). USA still has not an IFV support their paratroopers.
    • First aerial firefighters (1936)
    • First modern assault rifle, the AK-47 (1947)
    • First torpedo remote control glider, PSN-1
    • First torpedo reaction, PRAB-203
    • First supercavitating torpedo, VA -111 Shkval
    • First airship missile
    • First intercontinental missile (R-7 Semyorka, 1957)
    • First anti-ballistic missile (1961)
    • First intercontinental missile submarine, Vysota R-29 (1969) Creating multi-rocket engine chamber world's most powerful liquid fuel, RD-170 (1987)
    • Creating infrared serving RKKA
    • First drogue parachute (1937)
    • Creating Sambo Martial Art by Anatoly Kharlampiev (1938)
    • First underwater assault rifle, the APS (1975)
    • Creating the Active Protection System, Drozd (1978)
    • First bathyscaphe, Mir (1987). First to explore the seabed under the North Pole
    • First performed the maneuver "Cobra Pugavhev" in 1989
    • First ramjet engine, R-3 (1939)
    • Aerowagon creation (1917) pioneered Schienenzeppelin German, the M-497 Black Beetle USA and Soviet turbojet train
    • First snowmobile history, RF-8, based on the pre-Soviet prototype Aerosani
    • First antisatellite weapon (1960)

    ART:

    • Creation of the polyphonic or contrapuntal, metric, rhythmic, harmonic, melodic assembly. Previous conceptual audiovisual modalities, including video and clip, by Sergei Mikhailovich Eisenstein
    • Invention of xerography
    • Creation of chroma
    • Kinopanorama Invention (1956)

    SOCIAL ACHIEVEMENTS :

    • First and totally FREE public education system, which achieved the highest rates of literacy in history in the 15 Soviet republics. Moreover, Soviet schools offered free food for students, so the work-life balance is made ​​much easier than today in the capitalist countries. Even kindergartens were also free.
    • First FREE and universal health care system, which increased the life expectancy of the Soviets, less than 40 years in 1917, to reach Western levels in 80 (70 years). The achievements of hunger eradication and health systems can also compare with the average height of the Soviets in 1917 (1,60 m) to 1980 (1,80 m). This health system discovered painless childbirth and performed the first organ transplant.
    • Between 1945 and 1964, the Soviet national income grew by 570%, compared to 55% in the USA (and remember that the USSR was not a Marshal Plan to help the country)
    • Invention of evening studies so that workers could build careers.
    • First country in history where abortion was legal and free (since 1920)
    • First country in history to achieve an unemployment rate at 0%
    • Equality policies, one of the first countries to adopt women's suffrage
    • First woman in history to hold a position in a government (Aleksandra Kollontai)










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    Yes, and they also produced Stalin's terrors and those accomplishments appear to be on a log curve going towards the final state of society before it switched to capitalism. Communism without the terrors is better than what we have now in America since what we have is a bunch of "nuclear family" patriarchy, autism, idiocy, and vapid consumerism with no "society" in sight (probably everything that doesn't feature honor killings is in a better state than America and that's only because we can potentially get out of this soon) so I'm willing to listen to these ideas, but there's a lot to criticize too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by coeruleum View Post
    It seems like the state would halt innovation though. Large corporations are already doing that, so the answer isn't to kiss their behinds even more, but I still don't see state bureaucracy being somehow even slightly more innovative.
    Only the government has the will to undertake huge multi-generational projects. The Space Program comes from NASA. The Internet was invented by the Department of Defense and took decades to fine tune—try asking a meeting of venture of capitalists to finance a project that may (or may not) have a payoff forty years from now—get ready to be laughed out of the room.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerxe View Post
    Only the government has the will to undertake huge multi-generational projects. The Space Program comes from NASA. The Internet was invented by the Department of Defense and took decades to fine tune—try asking a meeting of venture of capitalists to finance a project that may (or may not) have a payoff forty years from now—get ready to be laughed out of the room.
    No wonder NASA is the one mostly funding SpaceX then. I feel like we still need some amount of free market though for smaller things and for things an individual can do like making a painting or blowing glass for a cup so we don't end up drinking out of Commie Cups like Dixie Cups. While a world full of daring and ingenuity that is also full of Spartan lifestyles and astronaut food for non-astronauts is infinitely preferable to the ridiculous creature comfort world the self-named Baby Boomers made, I think that's a false dilemma. If you do blow glass and make a cup, that should be a really admirable work of art, though not a world-historical one, and I don't see how we get to the world-historical things after we cut all the small ones that we practice on out.

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    ...my comrades!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy View Post
    In (actual) socialism everyone is guaranteed and given a job by the state. People living in their parent's basement jobless and collecting welfare is only a phenomenon that occurs in social democracy/welfare capitalism, which is one of the reasons I support full blown communism over left-leaning centrist like Bernie.
    Despite social democracy/welfare capitalism's flaws, it still beats conventional capitalism/corporate capitalism since you don't get people going broke from health care, in debt because of college and living on the streets. However, I am highly skeptical of state socialism because while it sounds great in theory, I think in practice it is prone to corruption and it won't work IMO.
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    Wherever you go, there you are. coeruleum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raver View Post
    Despite social democracy/welfare capitalism's flaws, it still beats conventional capitalism/corporate capitalism since you don't get people going broke from health care, in debt because of college and living on the streets. However, I am highly skeptical of state socialism because while it sounds great in theory, I think in practice it is prone to corruption and it won't work IMO.
    I'm actually for blending capitalism and socialism beyond welfare now. Is NASA funding SpaceX a form of socialism? If it is, I want more socialism and not just to "help the poor" but I don't see what good disestablishing the market would do except maybe temporarily to #DrainTheSwamp, and even then I would only expect heavy government intervention by temporarily or maybe permanently buying major corporations and not, say, an old couple's mom-and-pop hot sauce boutique down the street (though it might be good for them to buy but not run businesses like that so they don't accidentally get trampled.)

    This reminds me of a symbol I made for leftist politics in the service of culture but haven't had much use for. Feel free to use this all you want without attributing it to me or having to do anything else as long as you don't claim credit or use it in bad faith:



    This symbol could be taken just as badly as it could well so enjoy.

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    What does anyone here think about the idea that the state to seize natural resources rather than "production" more generally? hat seems like it could potentially result in the perfect way to have socialism while keeping the best of the free market. The biggest companies that people complain about don't actually create much, they "mass produce" which depends almost entirely on access to resources. If we had a completely socialized government, I don't see what's pragmatically stopping me from buying paints and canvas and making a painting and selling it. Even if it's illegal, paintings don't use many resources and don't take up much space, and if there's no currency an illegal one could be invented or barter could be used. They have been sold to the Nazis and others on the black market very frequently. If resources are publicly owned, there can't be any Cheeto ****** to paraphrase another thread because the price of corn relative to returns of making corn puffs with cheese powder would make that extremely unprofitable. Paintings, on the other hand, would have a very high profit margin, though that doesn't guarantee artists would make a lot of money in any way. Basically your profit would be completely dependent on your skill whether you worked for a state-owned enterprise or in a smaller enterprise (larger private enterprises would be virtually if not completely nonexistent.)

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    Sanders is a shit bum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kill4Me View Post
    Sanders is a shit bum.
    I thought Sanders was just a crazy old grandpa. Like that family relative at the Christmas party who rants about politics and doesn’t drink but doesn’t need to, because he’s already nuts.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 07-31-2019 at 11:46 PM.

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    Remember, kids. Socialism is when the government does something; the more it does the socialist-er it is.


    That’s almost a direct quote from Lenin, that is.
    I was a Democratic caucus. Have you ever been to a caucus? No you haven't. You're a lying dog-faced pony soldier.

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    BimBaden's Avatar
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    Communism is great in theory. In reality, it just doesn't work.

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    He was a political activist. That tells you what a do-nothing idealistic loser he was. Sure, he wants universal healthcare because he sees the world through the eyes of a shitbum. His being a politician doesn't offset his status as a shitbum. Plenty of non-producers get elected because they play identity politics. Sanders got elected because his state is full of liberal commie get nothing done kooks like him and he's the biggest mouth of the bunch. Those kooks would vote for a child molesting axe murderer who espoused kooky liberalism before they would vote for a republican. Cut Sanders' tongue out of his mouth, he would have been panhandling on the street. A tongueless trump would have still put up Trump Towers.

    I'm surprised they even allow that commie kook into the debate. The bloodbath is great as the centrist dems try to kill off the liberal kook wing of the democratic party (aka identity politic cesspool). Hope commie crackpot bernie runs as an independent and splits the vote!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kill4Me View Post
    He was a political activist. That tells you what a do-nothing idealistic loser he was. Sure, he wants universal healthcare because he sees the world through the eyes of a shitbum. His being a politician doesn't offset his status as a shitbum. Plenty of non-producers get elected because they play identity politics. Sanders got elected because his state is full of liberal commie get nothing done kooks like him and he's the biggest mouth of the bunch. Those kooks would vote for a child molesting axe murderer who espoused kooky liberalism before they would vote for a republican. Cut Sanders' tongue out of his mouth, he would have been panhandling on the street. A tongueless trump would have still put up Trump Towers.

    I'm surprised they even allow that commie kook into the debate. The bloodbath is great as the centrist dems try to kill off the liberal kook wing of the democratic party (aka identity politic cesspool). Hope commie crackpot bernie runs as an independent and splits the vote!
    ”Liberal commie.” Because words mean nothing, apparently.

    Looks like it’s time to increment my ignore list again.
    I was a Democratic caucus. Have you ever been to a caucus? No you haven't. You're a lying dog-faced pony soldier.

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    Donald Trump would be sucking dicks for cash if he didn't have a rich dad.

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    Wherever you go, there you are. coeruleum's Avatar
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    Also, Bernie Sanders is senator of Vermont. There are few streets to beg on in Vermont, and everyone runs around with guns in case they get attacked by a bear. I also got sent a lot of maple syrup candy from a relative who lives there once, so apparently they're also obsessed with that. Bernie Sanders is 99 things but a bum ain't one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy View Post
    In (actual) socialism everyone is guaranteed and given a job by the state. People living in their parent's basement jobless and collecting welfare is only a phenomenon that occurs in social democracy/welfare capitalism, which is one of the reasons I support full blown communism over left-leaning centrist like Bernie.
    While Marx (or was it Lenin?) did have the wisdom to say "Those who do not work, neither shall they eat" (or something along those lines) that always ends up being the case. There will, sadly, always exist people who do jack shit for others yet get to eat like kings while us lowly peasants slave away for starvation rations by comparison. The concept of "rent seeking" is a real thing and if you'd care to listen to any true ardent capitalist they'd tell ya they wanna hang those fuckers just as bad as you or any other decent person would! For that behavior is clearly exploitative and thus immoral.

    Also, I will have to remind you that full on commie regimes are responsible for death tolls that Atheists commonly use as an argument against religion. I could go on as to how Communism *is* a religion but hey, I'm not about to poke bears I'd rather not poke. Just planting a seed. A "religion" need not worship a "god" as people commonly understand the concept...

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerxe View Post
    Donald Trump would be sucking dicks for cash if he didn't have a rich dad.
    Trump blew all of his dad's money on failed airlines, poor real estate investments, and casinos. It is hard to lose money on a casino, but Trump did it. When the banks wouldn't lend him any more money, where did he turn for laundered cash?

    https://twitter.com/Stop_Trump20/sta...10715074027522

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    As whacky and out there as Marianne Williamson is, I've got more respect for her than I do Bernie. Bernie was a professional shitbum...a political activist. Professional political activists are trash....its one step above prostitution. Marianne Williamson dropped out of college and moved to New York. She wrote 13 books, seven New York Times Bestsellers, ran businesses....that's not easy to do (took grit, took brains, took balls), especially in New York, a very vicious, cut throat place. She survived and even thrived. She's crazy, her views are nutty, but she's got proven results (she knows how to get things done). Bernie couldn't find his way out of a paper box. He never proved himself in the rough and tumble...he lived a coward's life. THat's why the liberal kook wing of the identity politic cesspool (aka democratic party) love him. Bernie is for the non-producer, the non-worker, the homeless coward, the unemployable welfare SSI collector. At least the democratic party of JFK/LBJ was all about the hard workers. Thanks to Ted Talk liberal kooks, black lies matter, and now the kooky antifa pussies, the democratic party went to shit when it shifted emphasis on the hard working blue collar guy to the commie shitbums like berrnie.

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    forgive my cynicism about Sanders. It's a product of years of compromising my own values for candiates I thought were lesser evils.

    At my heart I am very much in line with a lot of Marxist and Socialist thinking, but pragmatism and cynicism have pulled me toward the center. As far as American democratic socialists are concerned, Bernie is still worlds apart from other self-professed democratic socialists like AOC. I think he's a dying breed, but living proof one can balance civil libertarianism with socialist aims. Most of the AOCs of the USA would implement large, centralized government at the expense of individual liberty and freedom of speech in order to bring their ideas to fruition. I think Sanders is one of the few who would attempt to do so without sacrificing individualism and the entrepreneurial spirit. He was right to criticize the identity politics of the left and right in the wake of Trump's election. Shame more on the left aren't hearing his warnings.

    He's the closest thing to a libertarian socialist we're going to get at this stage (assuming we're only counting people with a chance of winning). My brain is closer to supporting Tulsi or Warren in a primary, but my heart is still with Sanders.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kill4Me View Post
    he lived a coward's life.
    He got arrested marching with Martin Luther King in the '60s. What exactly have you done with your life that is so great? Be a psychopath? Physically assault a bunch of people? Oh yeah you've done wonders. You've added so much of value to the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kill4Me View Post
    Bernie is for the non-producer, the non-worker, the homeless coward, the unemployable welfare SSI collector.
    He's for everyone. And those people you mentioned there have to eat too. Or I guess you think we should just let them starve?
    EII-INFj / INFP / 4w5 5w4 9w1

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