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Thread: Should Quadra Values Be Taken Seriously?

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    Disbelief Jung
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    Seems like there's an incorrect use and understanding of socionics terminology.



    Here Gamma quadra values according Strat:
    1. "Democratic" trait (rational aspects are involutionary, with a minus sign; irrational aspects are evolutionary, with a plus sign: -Fi, -Te, +Se, +Ni)
    In accordance with this trait, every person has the right 1) to interact with others as equals 2) to strive towards maximally possible creative self-realization 3) to freely develop one's business and creative initiatives 4) to fight for equality in rights and possibilities to creatively realize oneself 5) to defend one's own right to freedom of action and to an adequate response by action 6) to have freedom for enterprise, for making decisions, and for defending one's own point of view.

    2. "Decisive" trait (predominance of evolutionary irrational aspects +Ni +Se)
    In accordance with this trait, every person has the right 1) to interact with others from position of power 2) to operatively, in condensed periods of time, solve problems, his own and those of others, making responsible decisions and making others obey them 3) to decisively defend one's own right to labor, right to freedom of entrepreneurial activity and freedom of choice of profession 4) to resolutely defend one's own point of view, to advantageously and operatively use one's own fighting qualities and particularities of the ongoing moment.

    3. "Objectivist" trait (predominance of involutionary logic of actions and ethics of relations -Fi -Te)
    In accordance with this trait, every person has the right 1) to trust their personal experience – professional, pragmatic, business experience derived from personal observations – and insist on one’s right to further act in accordance to it 2) to trust facts and to become persuaded by facts – to provide them as the main proof of one's correctness 3) to evaluate the situation by already transpired facts and to act in accordance with circumstances existing up to date, trusting one's own experience and one's notion of expedience of a particular course of action 4) to freely and resolutely demonstrate pragmatic initiatives coming from one's own base of observations, one's own personal and professional experience, and reasoning founded common sense, and at one's own discretion 5) to evaluate a person according to the level of his qualifications, based on facts of his professional training, attainments, and competence 6) to remove (or ask for removal) from work those who are inept and negligent, to push them out from work and projects 7) to fight for one's own participation in work or a project, for one's place on a working team, and to be able to defend it.


    1. The aspect of evolutionary volitional sensing (+Se) – Total democratization of society, universal accessibility to spheres of creative self-realization, professional demand, access to professional training and education.
    2. The aspect of evolutionary intuition of time (+Ni) – Sense of one's own necessity in the current age, in a given stretch of time, understanding of the demands and needs of the time, sense of one's own significance in the present epoch, sense of the possibilities of the current epoch: "Time has chosen us!" "Time does not wait!" "Time goes ahead!"
    3. The aspect of involutionary business logic (-Te) – Freedom of action, freedom of choice of one's profession, freedom of enterprise, freedom of creative initiative, freedom of creative self-realization.
    4. The aspect of involutionary ethics of relations (-Fi) – Moral codex and bar of rights, framework of appropriateness, development of rights and moral norms that are necessary for successful well-coordinated teamwork, for successful creative self-realization under the conditions of free competition, for formation of beneficial partnerships, and so on.
    None of it says "the acquisition of material wealth", this kind of associations are used as shortcuts to replace bigger/deeper concepts when learning something new (mental summary), but in the long run, it provokes to not understand the concepts properly and leads to use them wrongly.

    In the same sense, tradition or tribalism and lack of individuality are not beta values, instead:

    1. "Aristocratic" trait (rational aspects are evolutionary, with a plus sign; irrational aspects are involutionary, with a minus sign: +Fe, +Ti, -Se, -Ni)
    In accordance with this trait, every person has the right 1) to create a hierarchy, establishing relations of subordination, to subordinate those below him and to comply with those above him 2) to support already established within the hierarchy traditions and rituals and monitor their observance 3) to put claims to the dominant positions within the system and to fight for one's right to occupy them 4) to fight for positional advantages in accumulation of rights, privileges, and opportunities 5) to establish one's own order within the system, consolidating power in one's own hands, to interact with others from position of power 6) to suppress by own authority, by authority of personal opinion 7) to control and critique the statements of lower ranking members of the hierarchy, limiting their right to expression on any (or on forbidden) subjects 8) to authoritatively impose one's own point of view, decisions, power, and will.

    2. "Decisive" trait (predominance of involutionary irrational aspects -Ni -Se)
    In accordance with this trait, every person has the right 1) to interact with others from the position of power 2) to interact with others from the position of advantage in rights, standing, and power 3) to use power methods to fight for an advantageous position within the system and have the right to put a claim to it 4) to operatively, in condensed periods of time, solve problems, his own and those of others, making responsible decisions and making others obey them 5) to win a dominating place in a system, to advantageously and operatively use own fighting qualities and particularities of the present moment 6) to authoritatively impose one's own will, decisions, and opinions.

    3. "Subjectivist" trait (predominance of evolutionary rational aspects +Ti +Fe)
    In accordance with this trait, every person has the right 1) to subjective analysis of events, opinions, and actions 2) to search for "the culpable" and displace them from the system, at the same time resisting being displaced, fighting for one's own place within the system 3) to contend the opinions and decisions of others and impose his own opinion as the final truth 4) to deliver his opinions firmly, sharply, unequivocally, displacing opponents out of the argument, out of the system of relations, out of the social system, and into the lower strata.

    Four aspects structure the society of Beta Quadra:

    1. The aspect of evolutionary logic of relations (+Ti) – Creates a subordinate system of relations, creates an authoritative autocratic system of power ("a vertical"). Brings order to this hierarchical structure, protects and supports it. Creates a foundation of rights under this "vertical structure", creates "a table of ranks" and a system of rewards and punishments, defines the extent of rights and responsibilities, establishes a system of benefits and privileges.
    2. The aspect of evolutionary ethics of emotions (+Fe) – Creates ideological hierarchies that support the current autocratic apparatus. Creates a theocratic system of power. Sets prospective goals and targets for existing social structures, acting as their spiritual and ideological leader – "the forward" and "forward-looking".
    3. The aspect of involutionary volitional sensing (-Se) – Creates new power structures that are alternative to already existing ones, spontaneously creates "a vertical" of power. Ensures combat readiness and defensive capability of the spearheaded system.
    4. The aspect of involutionary intuition of time (-Ni) – Tacitly and unnoticeably ensures the security of the system; in advance covers up the "rear points" of the dominants of the hierarchy, forewarns them of impending dangers, but can also replace them (discreetly and unobtrusively) if they are recognized as weak and incompetent leaders.
    edit.

    ...as for alpha:

    I have seen those who list themselves as Alpha call for limitations on free speech (sufficed the speech in question is deemed offensive)
    1. Fears and concerns arising from Alpha quadral complex.

    From the combination of the properties of all of predominating traits listed above, in Alpha Quadra there arises a fierce competition of views and opinions. Discussions, debates, arguments – these are the most wide-spread and most natural forms of approaching important issues here. Each person considers it to be their duty (a natural and legal right) to speak freely on any subject or issue, not limiting themselves to the means of expression in lexicon and by time.

    Each person feels the right to suppress the opinion of his or her opponents by his own arguments, forcing them out of the dispute, out of the audience, out of the topic, and out of the system. (Up to demands and exclamations: "Get out! There is no place here for the likes of you! First, learn to behave yourself properly and to hear out your opposition.")
    Quadra Values refers to the rights that I care to get (as quadra complex), not necessarily the rights or concessions I'm going to give to others.
    Last edited by Faith; 07-16-2019 at 02:28 PM.

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