Managing PoLR anxiety

[Singu]

I have one, therefore it exists.

It's a bold claim to say that anyone who believes they observed their PoLR is imagining it. If something has an effect on how you act, it's a thing that can be analysed and measured. Sure, your entire sociotype (if you have one) is in your head, but that doesn't mean that "it isn't a thing".

I can compare. I used to think I had PoLR, now I don't. I used to think my "Supervisor" made me uncomfortable, now the exact same person doesn't. It was all in my head. It has more to do with how I feel about the person rather than the other way around. How I think about myself creates potentials within myself that I can follow or ignore.

See, people make assumptions about themselves or the world. Then often, they are proven wrong by new experience.

As to my own PoLR, I think about it often. Without socionics I would have thought of it in different terms, but it's still a thing anyone who knows me well notices. I don't like that it's so pronounced, but it's a consequence of my doing everything else that I enjoy and feel is valuable. My willpower is virtually nonexistent. I'll be forceful doing what I think is right, but I can't push for what I want for more than 10 minutes, and even that's rare. I don't want anything enough to work for it, and a part of me doesn't "want to want" anything. So I'm stuck with Se PoLR because I want a million things equally and each gets an infinitesimal slice of my willpower.

Strangely enough, some people who met me said that I was too strong-willed, but that's because their perception of willpower wasn't nuanced.

Socionics might make that observation about you, and say you are that way forever.

It could be true that you will be that way forever, or it could not.

Again, previous experiences are proven wrong by new experiences. What was true about you could change. Actually, it's what you think is true about yourself. You don't really know what you're "really" like, because what you know about yourself could be wrong.

Hence, I don't think it's very meaningful to make an observation, and say that that observation will stay the same forever. Because you could easily make the wrong observation.

[Tallmo]

Yeah you cant remove yourself from Te and you should not do it. Instead you need to expose yourself to it little by little at work etc and that way you learn standard situations so its easier to manage.

Suffer and adapt

[Luk]

I can compare. I used to think I had PoLR, now I don't. I used to think my "Supervisor" made me uncomfortable, now the exact same person doesn't. It was all in my head. It has more to do with how I feel about the person rather than the other way around. How I think about myself creates potentials within myself that I can follow or ignore.

See, people make assumptions about themselves or the world. Then often, they are proven wrong by new experience.



Socionics might make that observation about you, and say you are that way forever.

It could be true that you will be that way forever, or it could not.

Again, previous experiences are proven wrong by new experiences. What was true about you could change. Actually, it's what you think is true about yourself. You don't really know what you're "really" like, because what you know about yourself could be wrong.

Hence, I don't think it's very meaningful to make an observation, and say that that observation will stay the same forever. Because you could easily make the wrong observation.

I agree with you on the "forever" part. I didn't want to imply that sociotypes are permanent. For most people I expect them to be permanent (semi-permanent?), but there's nothing in the model saying they can't change.

The only ways I can think of for your PoLR's hold on you to lessen is for you to weaken your reliance on your Creative, or for your Base/Creative to change, swap, or to stop existing. In my mind, what's special about the Creative is that you value it and use it more than your ability to keep it turned on (and really understand it). Every time you don't apply your creative when you could, it feels like missing out. It leaves no room for your PoLR to grow if you use it a lot and without understanding its nuances as much as your Base.

But to use it as much as your Base, you have to value it as more than just "a tool" and at that point you're either stepping outside Model A or your Creative becomes your Base. You're back to square one now because your Role has less room to express itself. Even if you step outside the model, your mind can only work on so much. So to have 2 mental 4D functions is a lot; I struggle to imagine how that would work. Two mental 4D functions means that they're both actively monitoring the environment and that you're actively planning and manipulating both as they progress. Maybe someone could do that? My brain capacity isn't that high. I expect at least one of them to be unable to stay ahead. 3D keeps up; 4D races ahead of necessity.

If the IM Element is less than 4D (doesn't have enough capacity to run circles around reality), you lose sight of what happens when you ignore its results or make it step back -- hence the reluctance to use your PoLR (because the 3D Creative doesn't have the capacity to "catch up"), hence the lack of practice, hence the lack of information.

[Singu]

Socionics is like gravity. You are affected by it whether you believe in it or not.

I agree with you on the "forever" part. I didn't want to imply that sociotypes are permanent. For most people I expect them to be permanent (semi-permanent?), but there's nothing in the model saying they can't change.

Gravity is an explanation for why something happens the way that it does.

I can say that Person A makes Person B uncomfortable. But the real question is, why? As in my case, the explanation could be that I have subjectively felt that the Person A could do me harm by pointing out my weak points. That's a perfectly legitimate explanation. If I no longer feel that way, then Person A no longer makes me uncomfortable.

But if we don't know why, then we can't say necessarily that Person A making Person B uncomfortable is correlated. It could be that the reason was entirely subjective on the part of Person B, and it had nothing to do with Person A per se.

--

Socionics makes such correlations. It says that "We have observed that Person A making Person B uncomfortable. Therefore, Person X and Person Y who are similar, must act in the same way".

But the explanatory approach would throw the whole thing out: what if the way that Person B feels had nothing to do with Person A? It seeks true causations, and not mere correlations.

[Luk]

Gravity is an explanation for why something happens the way that it does.

I can say that Person A makes Person B uncomfortable. But the real question is, why? As in my case, the explanation could be that I have subjectively felt that the Person A could do me harm by pointing out my weak points. That's a perfectly legitimate explanation. If I no longer feel that way, then Person A no longer makes me uncomfortable.

But if we don't know why, then we can't say necessarily that Person A making Person B uncomfortable is correlated. It could be that the reason was entirely subjective on the part of Person B, and it had nothing to do with Person A per se.

--

Socionics makes such correlations. It says that "We have observed that Person A making Person B uncomfortable. Therefore, Person X and Person Y who are similar, must act in the same way".

But the explanatory approach would throw the whole thing out: what if the way that Person B feels had nothing to do with Person A? It seeks true causations, and not mere correlations.

I agree that for your description of PoLR, it doesn't make much sense to experience the discomfort if you're not aware of a weakness.

I find it hard to relate to the sense of potential harm. I don't experience "PoLR hits" that way. I don't believe I feel threatened by Se any more than a normal person. I probably respond to displays of aggression less than most people, because I think directly forcing people to do what you want is stupid. I want no part of that.

It doesn't usually matter how much power someone wields over me. I won't do what I think is unreasonable. It will bother them more than it will bother me.

It makes me uncomfortable when someone in a true position of power is making me do stupid things, but I expect an Si Base would also feel uncomfortable. I suspect an Se Base would also not like it.

The only difference is that I will indiscriminately reject Se assessments and never respond with Se myself. I don't want to be seen as someone who forces his will on others. (But I will force my Ti/Ne assessments on others.)

[WinnieW]

...I won't do what I think is unreasonable...
It makes me uncomfortable when someone in a true position of power is making me do stupid things...

I can relate... and I start to reflect whether it can make sense or not, but as an immediate reaction I can't start the task I'm ordered to do.