The death of a lead function

[Reyne]

-

[Smilex]

How did it die? Lead poisoning.

But seriously, you're not talking about Ne-Te, you're talking about Ni-Te. An ISTp repressing their Si is quite literally acting like an INTp in socionics. You experienced being INTp.

[ooo]

How did it die? Lead poisoning.

But seriously, you're not talking about Ne-Te, you're talking about Ni-Te. An ISTp repressing their Si is quite literally acting like an INTp in socionics. You experienced being INTp.

I've been telling him the same thing from the scratch, lulz... oh well, we have to accept we might just be wrong

[Smilex]

The role function isn't really present in us. The balance between lead function and DS leads us to act in a certain manner similar to the function the role represents. But if a functions is blocked, what emerges is the polar opposite, and Si is balanced by inferior Ne. Socionics is based on Jung's thought, let's keep it in mind. If your lead function becomes weak and unconscious what emerges is the inferior/DS.

Get serious.

[Beautiful sky]

Um...ahhhh some stuff that SLI do is kinda subconscious or unaware to them so NO. My answer is no to you

[Beautiful sky]

Could you expand on that?

I have a question
Do you fall into routine?

[Beautiful sky]

A routine of laziness and spastically seeking out novel opportunities for change while busy in other stuff cause reality bores me? Yes.

So you don't understand the motivations of your own actions ?

[Smilex]

^{Sorry, I thought I might've been talking to a serious person.}

[Beautiful sky]

you can shut down and not do things but I'm pretty certain that to dedicate your psyche to extreme E/I is not very healthy and goes agains nature.

[ooo]

no, but Jung describes Origen and Tertullian in his Psychological Types. Tertullian is an example of Introverted Thinking, coupled with Sensing, and Origen is an example of Extroverted Sensing, coupled with Feeling. what these two christian scholars did was to sacrifice, each of them, their strongest functions, in order to reach a life with God. so Tertullian practises the "sacrificium intellectum", and realizes that it's his irrational side to give him faith. while Origen practices a literal self mutilation (he evirates himself), and realizes that it's the intellect that gives him faith.

in the end, he says, you could have said that Tertullian was a feeler and Origen an intellectual, for what they've sacrificed opened the doors to a new life.

[Beautiful sky]

no, but Jung describes Origen and Tertullian in his Psychological Types. Tertullian is an example of Introverted Thinking, coupled with Sensing, and Origen is an example of Extroverted Sensing, coupled with Feeling. what these two christian scholars did was to sacrifice, each of them, their strongest functions, in order to reach a life with God. so Tertullian practices the "sacrificium intellectum", and realizes that it's his irrational side to give him faith. while Origen practices a literal self mutilation (he evirates himself), and realizes that it's the intellect that gives him faith.

in the end, he says, you could have said that Tertullian was a feeler and Origen an intellectual, for what they've sacrificed opened the doors to a new life.

That just hurt my brain.

[para]

no, but Jung describes Origen and Tertullian in his Psychological Types. Tertullian is an example of Introverted Thinking, coupled with Sensing, and Origen is an example of Extroverted Sensing, coupled with Feeling. what these two christian scholars did was to sacrifice, each of them, their strongest functions, in order to reach a life with God. so Tertullian practises the "sacrificium intellectum", and realizes that it's his irrational side to give him faith. while Origen practices a literal self mutilation (he evirates himself), and realizes that it's the intellect that gives him faith.

in the end, he says, you could have said that Tertullian was a feeler and Origen an intellectual, for what they've sacrificed opened the doors to a new life.

I like this. This is also something that Socionics tells us, is it not? Straying from what is percieved as ones ''original nature'' is not in itself bad, because it was in your nature to seek out that alien way of thinking - and this is what you think is right, most importantly. Besides the fact that Socionics is categorical and general, with no claim to the reality of things, there is also the situation that many of us do not necessarily conform to the descriptions, in part at least.

For example @Reyne, i think i am SLI, but my beings centre has always been in conceptuality and the 'unseen' so to speak. I am, by nature or by will (who knows), bound to this aspect.

[FDG]

I like this. This is also something that Socionics tells us, is it not? Straying from what is percieved as ones ''original nature'' is not in itself bad, because it was in your nature to seek out that alien way of thinking - and this is what you think is right, most importantly. Besides the fact that Socionics is categorical and general, with no claim to the reality of things, there is also the situation that many of us do not necessarily conform to the descriptions, in part at least.

For example @Reyne, i think i am SLI, but my beings centre has always been in conceptuality and the 'unseen' so to speak. I am, by nature or by will (who knows), bound to this aspect.

This is a SLI description + / - (this part is the +) from socionics.com:

"The strongest element of your personality is an inexhaustible curiosity towards the phenomena of the surrounding world. You are interested in adventure, tourism, the juxtaposition of cultures and the study of nature and architecture."

So what you say about yourself is perfectly compatible with SLI as a type. I do not understand what people on this website expect from a Si dominant.

Source:

http://www.socionics.com/advan/prof/istp.htm

[para]

This is a SLI description + / - (this part is the +) from socionics.com:

"The strongest element of your personality is an inexhaustible curiosity towards the phenomena of the surrounding world. You are interested in adventure, tourism, the juxtaposition of cultures and the study of nature and architecture."

So what you say about yourself is perfectly compatible with SLI as a type. I do not understand what people on this website expect from a Si dominant.

Source:

http://www.socionics.com/advan/prof/istp.htm

Interesting. I had not noted this source before. Although, the text still states that the surrounding world, adventure, comfort, aesthetics, material profit is essential to the type, which is not necessarily what i would attribute to my particular way of existing in the world - and with your reference to the compatibility to my self-description: there wasn't much to go by in the quoted post, no? Unless, of course, you're referring to other posts made by me, in which case i would be interested to hear some specific examples. Thank you for the source, it is quite interesting.

[The Reality Denialist]

Interesting. I had not noted this source before. Although, the text still states that the surrounding world, adventure, comfort, aesthetics, material profit is essential to the type, which is not necessarily what i would attribute to my particular way of existing in the world - and with your reference to the compatibility to my self-description: there wasn't much to go by in the quoted post, no? Unless, of course, you're referring to other posts made by me, in which case i would be interested to hear some specific examples. Thank you for the source, it is quite interesting.

Yea. Anyway if you see SLI as your type it would be cool. It is kind of hard to judge via internet especially if you have some sort of vision problems. I happen to know one SLI who is bit like you in terms of vision and he still enjoys nature and hunting etc.

it was kind of cool to see that you liked to visit in a place that was green (Finland) and stuff. Which really sounds like something I wouldn't really think about it myself. I just though it can look cool and he does not quite get why I like science so much but he is OK with it.

Anyway, how do you react when people start to bombard new perspectives/ideas at you? [I know that SLI usually looks bit stiff with their Fe.]

[ooo]

lol...

[ooo]

yeah, when I read the title of your thread I thought of that chapter, too

(but keep in mind, he keeps labeling them as Tert: Ti+Se and Origen: Se + Fi... it's how they come out that contrasts with their essence)

[ooo]

interesting thread

[Smilex]

This thread is absolutely pointless. Just a person who's proud they ever read a book posing as if making a question to attract fans.
This thread is the equivalent of an idiot walking to a medical conference siting Aristotle 'because all western science is based on Aristotle'.
I apologise for taking part in this utter fiasco.

[Chakram]

This thread is absolutely pointless. Just a person who's proud they ever read a book posing as if making a question to attract fans.
This thread is the equivalent of an idiot walking to a medical conference siting Aristotle 'because all western science is based on Aristotle'.
I apologise for taking part in this utter fiasco.

Are you aware of what site you are posting on?

[Sol]

it's possibly to mistype yourself

[Aylen]

There is a reason Jung said the following about introverted intuition. Bolded for emphasis. I am not a gatekeeper to any type. I think Babs and others can vouch for that. I just believe that some people want to find their type their own way. When I have violated their method by telling them I think they may be an Ni ego (or any type really.) it doesn't always turn out well. It can creep some people out. People can type themselves whatever they want. It's their game after all. I camouflage things as guesses so it is not rejected outright. I also don't care too much about how people type themselves. I can only be sure of my own lead function. Every other function is a tool for me.

"One of the most difficult types is the intuitive introvert"

"The intuitive extravert, you find them [all over]..renters, bankers, gamblers,... That is quite understandable. But the introvert...introverted variety...is more difficulty (sic) because he has intuitions as to the subjective factor, namely the Inner world. And of course that is very difficult to understand. Because what he sees are most uncommon things..and he doesn't like to talk of them..if he's not a fool...because he would spoil his own game, by telling people what he sees because people won't understand it."

"so you see, if...when the intuitive...the introverted intuitive would speak what he really perceives...then practically no one would understand it. He would be misunderstood. And so they learn to keep things to themselves. And you hardly ever hear them talking of these things..that is a great disadvantage...but it is an enormous advantage in another way not to speak of the experience in that way but also in human relations. For instance, they come into the presence of somebody they don't know and suddenly they have inner images. And those inner images give them more or less complete information about the psychology of the partner..."

"So the introverted intuitive has, in a way, a very difficult life. Although one of the most interesting lives."

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

@Reyne

idk, something about the way you look is really interesting to me. Hard to put my finger on it. It's not really a lusty/pervy look or anything. Your face just looks like it's always in a deep, perpetual state of searching and it kind of sucks you (or at least... me) in. I probably simplify things much more than you do for my own sanity.

If I were you , I'd camp up the broody repressed in turmoil str8 guy thing. It's kind of you? But then there's this good heartedness/middle class humanitarian kindness you have that is pulling you away from going too deep into the abyss with that. Haha it's kinda fun.

[FreelancePoliceman]

For what it's worth, I feel that my early environment caused me to repress my Ne, and I acted in quite an SLI-ish way. But that wasn't healthy for me, and since I've left my family's house, I've been returning to what I feel is my 'natural' personality.

Disregard those writing your experience off. Socionics, as all typology systems are, is unverifiable, and is at best only accurate of generalities. Furthermore, 99% of Socionics is pick-and-choose; like the early Christian scriptures, people just pick Socionikist writers they like and discard those they don't -- favoring a particular Socionikist while discarding Jung, the basis of Socionics, is all well and fine for them, but completely ridiculous to expect of others.

[ooo]

@para, I'm not sure socionics suggests to "get out of your comfort base function", but I think that should be the aim of any self betterment system... or it would be good if the system were not used only as an excuse to justify one's worse quirks.

[para]

@para, I'm not sure socionics suggests to "get out of your comfort base function", but I think that should be the aim of any self betterment system... or it would be good if the system were not used only as an excuse to justify one's worse quirks.

I used ''tells us'' in a weird way, lol - i meant that it has the ability to imbue us with a willingness to see ourselves more. That should, as you said, be the aim.

[Rebelondeck]

One can only use one's type to modify one's visible behaviour so as to mimic a desired behaviour - but this wouldn't make for happy times. I would estimate that many closeted LBTQ could relate stories. I have known more than a few SLI who have said that they felt that they had to closet themselves to hide their true natures. For some, this was wise tactic but often this feeling seemed due to paranoia more than actuality.

a.k.a. I/O

[Number 9 large]

What a load of bs. You know what u are? Fi lead cuz this whole post reeks of pretentious bullshit

[Number 9 large]

It's funny cause everytime someone talks about theoretical stuff you get upset and try acting cool.
What the hell happened to you? I remember your presentation and your type me video. You were a normal person. You had psychological depth and a good mind. You were NOT the "yoyo i dont give a **** about anything ahahahaha dafuq u talkin about" kind of person. Seriously, you're acting like some kind of meme nowadays. This whole aggressive mask is lame. Being Se lead doesn't mean constantly blasting your anger and frustration on other people. There's plenty of normal acting Se leads. You simply lack respect, you lack the ability (or will?) to use reason and you're taking advantage of both the virtual immunity internet gives and the fact that there's no authority around in here. Go around like this in real life and you'll get your face smashed or at least kicked out.

relax ESI boy

[Number 9 large]

Fi lead is possible, but in that case I would be EII. I'm a delta introvert, so if it's not EII it's SLI.

nah im not seeing any Ne

[Beautiful sky]

I'm quite confident about the fact that I repressed my lead function during the years in order to numb my pain. Do you think it's possible for a SLI to chronically become some kind of NeTe?

What I was trying to say is that numbing your pain as you describe it is Fi in the subconscious and largely why they are unaware of what happened to them and what they do to others.

Try doing only NeTe and get back to me on that. I want to see if your head blows up or not

[ouronis]

The infamous IEI that's good at Ti lol

[Number 9 large]

The infamous IEI that's good at Ti lol

Who needs duals anyway

[Aylen]

The infamous IEI that's good at Ti lol

People have been conflating Ti and Ni on this forum since the beginning. It is like a ball of yarn that could be untangled if someone was inclined to do it. Maybe someone more motivated than me will do it. It will probably be an INTx. Some people also underestimate the intelligence of IEI and overestimate the intelligence of any "T" type, which works out well for IEI.

I don't know Para's type but he reminds me of Quicktwist who was also typed ILI, SLI, LII and IEI. I vaguely remember him being typed EII and ESI too. In my mind they could be the same person even though I have seen videos of both and know they are not. I believe QT considered the same types Para has, except for EII (don't remember him considering that one). He was also polite and intelligent. I liked him. Maybe he will return someday.

Edit: I was wrong. He did consider them seriously. I believe when he left he may have been undecided still.

I have kinda sorta settled on ESI for now.

Thanks everybody for your insights and especially those who gave links. I di find the Wiki at the top of the page so I have been looking at it a bit at a time.

Another type I am possible considering is INFj. If anyone has any insight on this I would be glad to hear them.

Thanks everyone,

QT

[Aeris]

People have been conflating Ti and Ni on this forum since the beginning. It is like a ball of yarn that could be untangled if someone was inclined to do it. Maybe someone more motivated than me will do it. It will probably be an INTx. Some people also underestimate the intelligence of IEI and overestimate the intelligence of any "T" type, which works out well for IEI.

I don't know Para's type but he reminds me of Quicktwist who was also typed ILI, SLI, LII and IEI. I vaguely remember him being typed EII and ESI too. In my mind they could be the same person even though I have seen videos of both and know they are not. I believe QT considered the same types Para has, except for EII (don't remember him considering that one). He was also polite and intelligent. I liked him. Maybe he will return someday.

Edit: I was wrong. He did consider them seriously. I believe when he left he may have been undecided still.

Makes me think of someone who told me Ni is basicaly understood as "intuition Ti" lol. I found it fitting.
I remember warching a video about how people who truly have Ni as a function simply can't put it in words, it's more about a very abstract experience of life. The best description I found was "Ni is what is left when you take away all other functions" though I guess that's a negativist way of seeing things. I wrote this else where, and I know it can be said of all functions, but the others are better described by what they are. I could use all the words in the world to describe it and it wouldn't be succesful, a silence would be more meaningful, but people who desire a worded explaination wouldn't appreciate, so eh.
I don't believe an INTx would put decent words on Ni, INTj because they do not value it and INTp because they value it...
I think Ni is too personal to be properly put down on paper. Also, I read that Ni egos tend to think others who self-type as Ni ego are just plain wrong because the experiences of Ni don't match, and I can see it, beside Adam Strange who types everyone IEI.
To explain Ni tonight I'll use one word: tree.

[ooo]

Makes me think of someone who told me Ni is basicaly understood as "intuition Ti" lol. I found it fitting.
I remember warching a video about how people who truly have Ni as a function simply can't put it in words, it's more about a very abstract experience of life. The best description I found was "Ni is what is left when you take away all other functions" though I guess that's a negativist way of seeing things. I wrote this else where, and I know it can be said of all functions, but the others are better described by what they are. I could use all the words in the world to describe it and it wouldn't be succesful, a silence would be more meaningful, but people who desire a worded explaination wouldn't appreciate, so eh.
I don't believe an INTx would put decent words on Ni, INTj because they do not value it and INTp because they value it...
I think Ni is too personal to be properly put down on paper. Also, I read that Ni egos tend to think others who self-type as Ni ego are just plain wrong because the experiences of Ni don't match, and I can see it, beside Adam Strange who types everyone IEI.
To explain Ni tonight I'll use one word: tree.

same as Fi/Ni : ) If you compare Jung and the different takes of socionics, Ni, Fi, Ti, Si.. they're all mashed up. perhaps, perhaps, there are no types at all.. or perhaps they're 8 core types, but maybe even less... and it's about just very slightly preferences from those little cores on.. I think this forum is illuminating to show how mashed up types are.

369

[Chthonic Daydream]

I think Ni is too personal to be properly put down on paper. Also, I read that Ni egos tend to think others who self-type as Ni ego are just plain wrong because the experiences of Ni don't match, and I can see it, beside Adam Strange who types everyone IEI.
To explain Ni tonight I'll use one word: tree.

Magnifique.
I have noticed that about Ni egos as well . It's also the only IE that I was never capable getting a good grip of, and I shamefully admit it. It's also what led me to doubt and shove every typing of myself as IEI out the window; How could an IEI even fail so miserably at outlining Ni as a whole? Isn't it the equivalent of a SLE doubting their crazy, bulldozer magic?
Moreso, I don't think any description or term associated with Ni is of any help. At least it never was, to me. Hearing about P A T T E R N S, and S Y M B O L S and I M A G E R Y... I couldn't say it made the job of cutting to the bone of this IE any easier.

[Aeris]

Magnifique.
I have noticed that about Ni egos as well . It's also the only IE that I was never capable getting a good grip of, and I shamefully admit it. It's also what led me to doubt and shove every typing of myself as IEI out the window; How could an IEI even fail so miserably at outlining Ni as a whole? Isn't it the equivalent of a SLE doubting their crazy, bulldozer magic?
Moreso, I don't think any description or term associated with Ni is of any help. At least it never was, to me. Hearing about P A T T E R N S, and S Y M B O L S and I M A G E R Y... I couldn't say it made the job of cutting to the bone of this IE any easier.

Ni is the only function I "get" somehow, but I don't think I have a good grip of it, at best, I feel romantic toward it as a concept... but what do I truly mean with this? Either one gets it or not.
The descriptions are about what Ni may seem from the outside I think, I said tree because I was thinking about the life cycle of a tree when I wrote it, it's an image, the cycle is related to time, it's symbolic, but those words aren't what I had in mind at the time, I didn't think symbolicaly about an image and it's pattern through time, I thought of a tree growing, but if I spell out my thoughts it can be analyzed this way.
Random rememberance: one day I was sitting on the balcony and I started "seeing" the place where I live being built/torn down, it was a little strange to be hung in the "past", present, and "future" at once. Didn't think of time at the time, just experienced it.
Everyone can have such experiences, but they are stronger in certain individual, take more importance... are valued and conscious. @ooo when I read type descriptions, I get shocked about how mental people are, but I have never met such a person, because people aren't types, they view the world through not only the concept of functions (if one accepts it) but also many other lenses. Socionics is interesting to understand a small part of a psych imo, but all of the small parts that were described don't equal to the whole, at best, it can give an incomplete portrait of how one (the describer) views others and a deeper insight in one's psych, what we like/dislike can tell us loads about ourselves.

[Aylen]

Magnifique.
I have noticed that about Ni egos as well . It's also the only IE that I was never capable getting a good grip of, and I shamefully admit it. It's also what led me to doubt and shove every typing of myself as IEI out the window; How could an IEI even fail so miserably at outlining Ni as a whole? Isn't it the equivalent of a SLE doubting their crazy, bulldozer magic?
Moreso, I don't think any description or term associated with Ni is of any help. At least it never was, to me. Hearing about P A T T E R N S, and S Y M B O L S and I M A G E R Y... I couldn't say it made the job of cutting to the bone of this IE any easier.

This reminds of the conversation about avoiding certain words due to other people's rigid ideas of what it all means. There is a battle inside every time I have to use any word associated with Ni. Get the thesaurus to find another word for "time" "pattern" "symbolism" "meaning" etc... Censoring oneself can be exhausting so I end up setting the thesaurus aside most of the time (see I said "time").

It's the sentence by sentence nitpicking that leads to retypings that makes me want to light bonfires like Varg. I don't get chased much anymore since I understood the real battle was with myself. I see it happening to others. I can't help feeling for them. Does feeling for others make you Fe or or Fi? I forget? Holy hell I have feelings, cue #9's entrance, "EII 4w5", cue k4m, "EII 9w1", cue sol, "evil speaking, cute girl, IEI". I do so appreciate how they feel so strongly about my type. Heartwarming they all want me as a conflictor. I am happy to oblige when it suits me.



If I am everyone's confictor I can retype myself ESTx.

p.s. The Punisher is my hot imaginary crush @ooo.

[Alonzo]

The infamous IEI that's good at Ti lol

Yup, just like there must be LIIs that aren't completely emotionally retarded. Probably not you, but ah well, life ain't fair.