The death of a lead function

[para]

Yea. Anyway if you see SLI as your type it would be cool. It is kind of hard to judge via internet especially if you have some sort of vision problems. I happen to know one SLI who is bit like you in terms of vision and he still enjoys nature and hunting etc.

it was kind of cool to see that you liked to visit in a place that was green (Finland) and stuff. Which really sounds like something I wouldn't really think about it myself. I just though it can look cool and he does not quite get why I like science so much but he is OK with it.

Anyway, how do you react when people start to bombard new perspectives/ideas at you? [I know that SLI usually looks bit stiff with their Fe.]

It was mainly my mother who helped me appreciate nature more. I do not get out in nature that often, but i really like it when i do - i often forget the importance of such activities and withdraw to safer pastures. I probably would not have come to like nature myself without external input.

As for the new perspectives/ideas thing - i tend to appreciate these things if they bear a rational or conceptual fundament, if there is a train of thought that connects these. I am adept at spotting it or the lack of it. I am annoyed if it is random 'for the sake of it', since i find those mental endeavors meaningless, unless of course the study of that randomness is the goal (and i think it is worth ones time to learn to see value in most things, even though i lack that ability). My blindside is more on the ethical side of the alternatives, so an ethical alternative or another way of handling things in that region i can both be dismissive of and be grateful for. In conversation revolving around the discussion of such ideas and alternatives i tend to look for the most plausible and 'connected' idea, and i am good at sorting out these things. (4D Ti maybe?)
I do not feel i have a grounding presence in the sensory way. (calming down others physically and making them aware of that side)
I am still unsure if i am ILI or SLI, but i will say that most of my activities, thoughts and appearances to others have reflected the ILI type more. Also i pay very little attention to 'typical' Si things, such as appearance, aesthetic, cleanliness, physical harmony, health, almost to the point of not even being valued maybe. I really do not notice myself 'forecasting' or 'feeling out' sensations excessively - but i think i am Ip type.

[Alonzo]

It was mainly my mother who helped me appreciate nature more. I do not get out in nature that often, but i really like it when i do - i often forget the importance of such activities and withdraw to safer pastures. I probably would not have come to like nature myself without external input.

As for the new perspectives/ideas thing - i tend to appreciate these things if they bear a rational or conceptual fundament, if there is a train of thought that connects these. I am adept at spotting it or the lack of it. I am annoyed if it is random 'for the sake of it', since i find those mental endeavors meaningless, unless of course the study of that randomness is the goal (and i think it is worth ones time to learn to see value in most things, even though i lack that ability). My blindside is more on the ethical side of the alternatives, so an ethical alternative or another way of handling things in that region i can both be dismissive of and be grateful for. In conversation revolving around the discussion of such ideas and alternatives i tend to look for the most plausible and 'connected' idea, and i am good at sorting out these things. (4D Ti maybe?)
I do not feel i have a grounding presence in the sensory way. (calming down others physically and making them aware of that side)
I am still unsure if i am ILI or SLI, but i will say that most of my activities, thoughts and appearances to others have reflected the ILI type more. Also i pay very little attention to 'typical' Si things, such as appearance, aesthetic, cleanliness, physical harmony, health, almost to the point of not even being valued maybe. I really do not notice myself 'forecasting' or 'feeling out' sensations excessively - but i think i am Ip type.

Hej,

1.) In my (arguably) humble opinion, I think that you are an IEI-Ni with an accentuated logical component (inert subtype), a Ni/Ti [NT appearing] double introvert (because you do come off rather withdrawn energetically, deeply so, and typical of Ti (especially when reinforced by strong Ni), your face manifests a sort of “flat effect”)--I know this because I watched the video you posted a while back in the member typing thread but was too busy to volunteer my 4 cents, at the time. Also, as a IEI-Ni, your Fe and Ti would have a similar strength/dimensionality, which is why "ethical alternatives" may not necessarily "win out" in your perspectives and decision making.

I've yet to really see you articulate anything remotely resembling Te, which discounts ILI, but I do see lots of vague, somewhat nebulous Ni and hidden agenda Ti, garnished with a dash of Fe, which gives you a "soft (not to be interpreted pejoratively as a slur),” genteel, almost Aristocratic quality atypical of ILIs and Gamma quadra, in general. I’d say you manifest a much higher, more consistent regard for Fe “niceties” than any other high Te/Ti user here. Lol In the member typing thread, there were folks arguing back and forth and you interjected with something along the lines of "what a lovely bunch [lol]" and that struck me as very IEI-Ni > making a seemingly non abrasive, Fe intervention that "breaks up the (funky) mood" and indirectly communicates a certain "judgment" without necessarily coming off "judgmental," preachy and annoying af.

2.) It's key to note that both Ni and Ti are concerned with systems that place a great deal of importance on "truth."

a.] Ni is ever ridding itself of biases in its pursuit of truth and discarding what isn't fundamental/necessary, in order to arrive at the purest essence of something, in its most ideal form, most usually as some sort of universal, interlocking archetype(s); In IEIs, Ni's "findings" are supported and structured by the ontological Ti “why” seeking consistency. Moreover, these endeavors usually take on a human focus, as opposed to more impersonal matters.

b.] Lead/High D/Strong Ti strives for precision of thought as it pertains to what is true or false, and a consonance to logical principles via rigorous self-assessing to the point of "certainty", thereby developing a subjective model of the world and how things work with high internal fidelity--of note, this is an end to itself, as opposed to tertiary/mobilizing/lower D Ti in IEIs that functions as a means to an (Ni) end.

I think it's pretty clear that you lead with Ni, but I certainly see more Hidden agenda Ti than I do Te, which would suggest IEI.

3.) I also think that you may be an HSP, which can often lead an INXp with strong Si-role to mistake him/herself for an ISXp; Both parties can be open to new and untried bodily sensations and experiences but whereas an ISXp would approach this with longings and cravings, an INXp would be driven by an underlying fear and anxiety to overcome, in order to no longer have to consider it, thereby becoming "free" to explore the abstract and live unattached to the body and its irritating (read: limiting) "material" concerns.

[para]

@Alonzo
Hej.

Thank you for the considerate and weighty response, i really appreciate it.

I've yet to really see you articulate anything remotely resembling Te, which discounts ILI, but I do see lots of vague, somewhat nebulous Ni and hidden agenda Ti, garnished with a dash of Fe, which gives you a "soft (not to be interpreted pejoratively as a slur),” genteel, almost Aristocratic quality atypical of ILIs and Gamma quadra, in general. I’d say you manifest a much higher, more consistent regard for Fe “niceties” than any other high Te/Ti user here. Lol In the member typing thread, there were folks arguing back and forth and you interjected with something along the lines of "what a lovely bunch [lol]" and that struck me as very IEI-Ni > making a seemingly non abrasive, Fe intervention that "breaks up the (funky) mood" and indirectly communicates a certain "judgment" without necessarily coming off "judgmental," preachy and annoying af.

This is an interesting observation, as most of my thoughts form themselves 'poetically' and with rhythm and life, as if they've already chosen themselves to 'seen' by me. I believe that there is an immediate reaction and fascination with the external form of the thoughts that they, in turn, accommodate to. Trying to see the world for what it is - a play, and that my observation of this is acting as well. So, to concretize, Fe might be apparent in this aspect of my thinking.

Regarding my remark in the thread, i think that you cast light on something central - the remark was more the finger pointing at the moon, than a direct attempt to 'steer' or control. (Fe?)

your face manifests a sort of “flat effect”

I am not very appearance-focused (at least not physically), so this interests me greatly. What exactly do you mean, and can you elaborate on how this affected your perception of my type? I have been V.I.ed before, and people usually land around introverted logical type territory.

With regards to your HSP comments, that is considerable. Also, the part about freeing oneself from the limiting concerns of the flesh applies to a reasonable degree - thinking of the sleeplessness to pursue more pressing mental endeavors, or the worry that the lack of physical sustenance will disturb my thoughts, rather than seeing it as worth pursuing by its own merits. (this is not to say that i lack the ability to relish in the phyiscal - for example, cravings for sweets are common to me.)
Also, i do not care for physical labour, in that it demands attention away from my usual 'space', and can even be a source of unpleasantness. (a way of thinking i do not normally associate with the mindset of Si leads, for whom the health and examination of the body is life itself)

A last question (as much of what you write is agreeable and worth looking at): Where do you see *lots* of Ni? I am interested in this distinction of Ip elements, so please indulge me. Why IEI>SEI?

In any case, thank you for the thoughts and reflections, they will not go ignored.

[Alonzo]

Regarding my remark in the thread, i think that you cast light on something central - the remark was more the finger pointing at the moon, than a direct attempt to 'steer' or control. (Fe?)

Even still, the manner in which you pointed "at the moon (tangentially, you often speak in metaphors, which reeks of high intuition)" encompassed an Fe approach--for starters, the creative function is the primary mode of implementation for the base/lead function and introverts use this to create a product effective/worthy/enticing/interesting enough to establish social contact. IEIs, unlike SLIs and ILIs (who are Fe PoLR), for example, would not use dry Te "business talk" to illicit a reaction/impart a sentiment; instead, they'd likely opt for a more tactful, faint, cunning "hint" or suggestion, similarly to what you did. I've heard IEIs say that the reflex to do that manifests as just that, an instantaneous reflex, even if it's a "conscious" process. Had I decided to "point at the moon," it would've most likely been far more harsh/scathing, even if not my active intention to be so.

Moreover, in this way, Fe is used to create/evoke the “appropriate” emotional response in others, to some end. And like many a IEI, you do this effortlessly, whether realized or not. We are having this conversation because of it. lol I find your forum presence to be rather polite, gracious, unassuming and overall, pleasant. See the evidence below:

Thank you for the considerate and weighty response, i really appreciate it.

In any case, thank you for the thoughts and reflections, they will not go ignored.

And that’s all within the same post. Find a ILI/LII/SLI on here who does that. Lol

This may be impolite, but...
Do you have an opinion on my type, @Kill4Me?

Only a monster would deny you. lol And either ironic or smart that you’re contemplating your politeness to someone named “Kill4Me.” lol The above may not seem so noteworthy, but such a manner positively predisposes others towards you. You seem so meek and earnest in your quest for self discovery, that I volunteered any wherewithal I might possess to possibly be of some aid. Fe users have a way of getting what they want–that’s part of their “superpower.”

Moreover, I went to your original typing thread (and the pleasantries were overflowing–and whereas it seems that you are English [correct me if I’m wrong], and, subsequently, culturally inclined towards such courtesies, the IEI does this effortlessly) and incidentally stumbled upon the following:

fwiw, i'm not very 'science-method' oriented, i have trouble following large diagrams or statistics, but i am very good at verbal, interpretive reasoning, like reading poetry or other kinds of literature, where you tend to be more imaginative in the solving of problems, and less systematic and controlled.

FWIW, this right here signifies Te-PoLR, which would again dismiss ILI and SLI.

I am not very appearance-focused (at least not physically), so this interests me greatly. What exactly do you mean, and can you elaborate on how this affected your perception of my type? I have been V.I.ed before, and people usually land around introverted logical type territory.

1.) Colloquially, flat/diminished/reduced affect is when someone doesn’t show as many outward signs of emotion (particularly as it pertains to facial mobility) as they are expected to. In psychology, the word “affect” refers to someone’s variability in facial expression, pitch of voice, and the use of hand and body movements; a person’s affect can be “broad” (which is the norm), “restricted” or “blunted” (which both mean pared back in some way) or “flat”: lacking signs of affective expression, or having a monotonous voice and unmoving face. Displaying a flattened affect, within the confines of my familiarity, is particularly common in those along the autism spectrum (though it’s also a symptom in other conditions like depression, etc...). It doesn’t mean that they aren’t reacting emotionally to what is happening around them—it just means that their feelings are not being displayed outwardly, as much, if at all.

2.) From a Socionics/typological perspective, in the LII with lead Ti, for example, Filatova notes “in the face of LII, there is an inner concentration, a desire to understand and analyze what is happening, to give him our assessment...always a cold expression on his face, on which one rarely sees any emotions.” According to Gulenko, “the expression on his face at a distance is always perceived as completely unemotional, even grim and gloomy.” It’s as if the face directly reflects the detached nature of Ti from the outside world, as it turns inwardly in order to dispassionately (though rigorously) conjure precise and concise logical formations.

Moreover, Ni, in and of itself, is often described as detaching oneself from space and time (as its users become immersed into the symbolic and archetypal) which usually manifests in the eyes/gaze–therefore, in conjunction with accentuated Ti, it’s easy to conceive of a seemingly cold, impassive face akin to some impenetrable wall.

3.) As a bit of an afterthought, this flattened affect is also frequently observed in high/strong Fi users–and as a IEI-Ni, your Fi would have even greater dimensionality than both your Fe & Ti. So with conscious Ni + Fi & Ti subconsciously churning powerfully in the background, that should certainly create an affect that minimizes facial mobility and emotional expressiveness.

A last question (as much of what you write is agreeable and worth looking at): Where do you see *lots* of Ni? I am interested in this distinction of Ip elements, so please indulge me. Why IEI>SEI?

Si leads can be washed away by vast waves of stored sensorial impressions of past experiences, facts, and details that they passively endure, OR, can deliberately recall with alarming specificity; they experience memories and all attached sensations to these experiences in “high definition”–this is their “zen,” (sensationally and experientially) reliving the past in rich, luxurious detail, as if finely preserved. It’s what they draw upon to create and recreate in the exterior world, with Fe or Te.

Si relays information whereas Ni synthesizes it–which is why our memories are generally not as “fidelitous” to the full, complete picture as theirs are; we usually remember overall impressions of events and may fill in the blanks with archetypal symbols that fit, but not precisely, or weave seemingly disparate, pre-existing bits of information (images, theories, visions, perspectives, metaphors, dreams, patterns) to conjure something altogether new, a comprehensive, holistic “take” with an orientation towards the future. Si users can seem more traditional/conservative in their approach towards life because they are cognitively/emotionally/spiritually anchored to deeply entrenched, past experiences/impressions/sensations. Si internalizes and categorizes actual reality; Ni internalizes and systematizes the abstract; both of them are ever subjectively filtering and funneling in order to make sense of things and find "clarity." Look no further than your response to me, to see where you are utilizing Ni:

This is an interesting observation, as most of my thoughts form themselves 'poetically' and with rhythm and life, as if they've already chosen themselves to 'seen' by me. I believe that there is an immediate reaction and fascination with the external form of the thoughts that they, in turn, accommodate to. Trying to see the world for what it is - a play, and that my observation of this is acting as well. So, to concretize, Fe might be apparent in this aspect of my thinking.

IEIs often unpack and serve their Ni "fruits," insights and visions with a Fe-oriented metaphorical or narrative approach, using analogies, and word pictures. This can oftentimes be a long and laborious process to imbue the right notes, tones and flavors but the resulting "sweetness" is often worth it (see, I do it too, just not as well as you do lol). You, like many a IEI, have a rather "poetic" and philosophical bent. It's quite refreshing, even if hard to follow, at times. And I just had to go a few posts into your history to find "lots" of it...

re: the meaning of your screen name...

Cross-thoughts, inexplicability, confusion - what has led me and everyone else everywhere.

To exist is to lose control.

Try to think about the inevitability of it all, and find yourself at peace with the stream - easier said than done, of course. Isn't this what we talk about when we use the term 'wisdom'? To relax, to be at peace?

I think that here, the focus is not on the strictly sexual, but that the sexual is seen as symbolic of that relational union. To many people, it is a breaking of that union physically, and this points toward a 'larger' split, so to speak. I agree that the focus on the sexual is trivial, on the grounds that it is the purely sexual that matters, but i think it is important to recognize that it, to many people, is that the sexual union points toward something larger, which is connected to this 'not just' in the relationship.

This is just my guess at the morbidity that is seen here.

re: your death (forgive the morose phrasing lol)

When the time is right.

And I’m including this because you illustrate well how IEIs use their Fe in establishing relations with others, and interestingly enough, showcase a key "draw" in the dynamic between IEIs their SLE duals as it concerns "aggressors/victims" engagement style:

I tend to make myself seem approachable, like playing a game. I do not naturally approach others, but like others to take contact to me. If i'm interested in a person, i will intentionally make myself more open to being approached, by doing certain (subdued) things that makes me more likely to enter their attention. But normally, i am content with just regarding them from a distance, imagining more contact to be established. I like when people are ''on the hook'', so to speak, and attach themselves to what i wanted them to see. I think there will always be a bit of manipulation in contact with others.

I like when people directly establish contact, and aren't flighty about it. I can be confused with inconstant flirting, or moving towards and then away in contact. I need it to be more direct. I don't react well to people establishing contact in small talk, though jokes and sharing thoughts are ok.

I actually have a good example of how i like contact to be established: a SLE girl in my class often gestures openly for me to work with her on projects, without hesitation or ''signs''. It is open, direct and liberating to see it for what it is - she finds me useful and worth working with on some things, and she shows this directly. To not have to read into things that are often trivial to oneself is very, very liberating. On the contrary, the EII girl wants to work with me too, but she shows this by expecting me to approach, which i am not suited to do. We do not establish working relations, as we cannot initiate that contact between us - we both refuse to be the mover. Someone taking control of that situation (which i do not seek to take control of) is very helpful and admirable.

After going through you your post history, I don't see how you could NOT be a IEI. Think it over. Solely from what you've revealed of yourself on the forum, I think it suits you well.