Hello! Anyone else who are from MBTI ENTJ > Socionics ESTp?
Also, anyone who are NOT from ENTJ in MBTI? Mind sharing what you are in MBTI?
Trying to learn more about this connection / non-connection.
Hello! Anyone else who are from MBTI ENTJ > Socionics ESTp?
Also, anyone who are NOT from ENTJ in MBTI? Mind sharing what you are in MBTI?
Trying to learn more about this connection / non-connection.
Pardon my irrelevance - I typed both INFJ and ENFJ in MBTI, and I've typed IEI-Fe and EIE-Ni in Socionics. EIE-Ni was the destination, and is holding up under testing and observation from others
@Adam Strange is our chief ENTj around here, so he can probably clarify a thing or three. ESTp (SLE) and ENTj (LIE) have many of the same functional 'strength' levels, and thus similar strengths, but they 'value' different Rational functions. Where SLE is consciously excellent with Se and unconsciously excellent with Te, LIE is consciously great with Te, and projects an impression of Se through their Mobilizing/Activation function, often known as the "Hidden Agenda" or HA for short on the forums.
As for the "Strength" (this shouldn't be taken completely literally) of a given function, in Socionics we assign a set of dimensions to each of the functions, which we call "IEs", or "Information Elements" (meaning, the kind of information that we read into content and phenomena, inferred through our functions). Here is an article on functional dimensions: http://en.socionicasys.org/bibliotek...ons-of-a-model
As an SLE, Your top two functions are Se 4D, and Ti 3D. You also possess the other forms of Sensation (Si) and Thinking (Te) unconsciously. In the case of SLE, their Te is their strongest unconscious feature (4D) and their Si is their second strongest unconscious feature (3D). It's all alot to digest, and Socionics can require an exhaustive amount of research and reflection, but the pieces will slowly start to cohere and it'll click for You
For further information on the types themselves and their given functions, refer to the Articles section of the forums, and leave any questions You have here, and I'm sure someone savvy will be able to lend a hand.
"We live in an age in which there is no heroic death."
Model A: ESI-Se -
DCNH: Dominant
Enneagram: 1w2, 2w1, 6w7
Instinctual Variant: Sx/So
Actually, @FDG is the chief ENTj around here (if there is such a thing as a chief in Gamma, and there really isn't). I'm a latecomer to the party.
FDG has more experience and knows the theory better than I do.
Not strange at all. I believe the majority of MBTI ENTJs are SLEs in Socionics.
MBTI should have stayed with dichotomies and never tried to connect them to cognitive functions. The way MBTI tests are built numerous type into their extinguishment or quasi-identicals. And the intuitive bias misleads numerous more sensors type into their business, kindred, activity, benefactors or beneficiaries. LIE is the benefactor of SLE.
If you really are SLE but typed ENTJ in MBTI then I would say that you were mistyped. You can't really disregard the real phenomenon of types, even in MBTI. But it's only with knowledge of Socionics that you really can confirm you type.
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
@Tallmo I disagree with your argument. A lot of ENTJ in MBTI are SLE in socionics. When I think of SLE who are ENTJ in MBTI, I think of Napoleon Bonaparte. That's because socionics IME are interpreted differently than MBTI cogntive functions. Socionics Se correspond with MBTI Te since both meant power and authority. In fact, the stereotypical enneagram associated with MBTI ENTJ are 8w7, and 8w7 are associated with SLE in socionics. There is no direct translation between the two.
@Adam Strange
ENTJ 8w7 could be LIE if they valued efficiency, usefulness, and profit (Socionics Te) over power, territory, and authority (Socionics Se). However, the stereotypical ENTJ 8w7 tend to be SLE in socionics. That said, there is not really a direct translation between the two typologies. Socionics Se is not the same as MBTI Se. Socionics Te is not the same as MBTI Te. The 8 MBTI cogntive functions are not the same thing as the 8 Socionics IME.
ENTJ who are LIE are more entrepreneurial like Bill Gates or Henry Ford. ENTJ who are SLE are more of a commander type like Napoleon Bonaparte and Otto Von Bismarck.
i'm ISFP in mbti and IEI
mind you mbti is utter tripe
I understand that tests might give that result. But the types and the cognitive functions are real phenomena. And both typologies are obviously aiming to describe the same phenomenon. It's not like mbti has discovered some totally different thing that they are trying to describe. A quick look at the type descriptions shows this. The difference is that mbti has some mistakes, and that correct typing is often difficult in mbti because they don't know about the type relations. I don't buy it at all that mbti could be some independent typology.
So my view is that if a real SLE types ENTJ in mbti then he hasn't understood what types are about, he is maybe more going by shallow behaviour etc. Because what happens when he meets a real ENTJ (that is, a LIE)? He is going to see that something was wrong.
I was typing "in socionics" long before I knew about socioincs, because with enough comparisons the real types can be seen, even without the correct theory.
I can't give any proof of this, so debating might not lead anywhere. It's my last 10 years of experience with types and relationships that has shown me that Socionics has the correct real types.
Last edited by Tallmo; 02-10-2019 at 07:31 AM.
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
Don't make the jump if you already believe you're an ENTJ. MBTI sez ENTJs make the most money by far, and who doesn't need a good positive self-fulfilling prophecy in their lives?
I'm the same probably. I'm a 3w4 though.
I mean, I thought I was LIE at first because I just assumed direct correlation. However, I'm about 95% sure I'm an ENTJ in MBTI and ESTp in socionics.
Hmm perhaps I should read both descriptions again to see where I am at...