Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
Nope. Not better for the age - that's why I clarified: "Just as horrible as child molestation". Just - all bad.

As far as homosexuality being to blame, I am not thinking of blaming at all, just it's obvious it has something significant to do with it. What, I cannot say with any experiential or scholarly knowledge. I do not understand the problem, I only know the connection is significant (obviously!). I have no conclusions, only a desire (like everyone else) to get to the root of the problem so it can be fixed. I would like understanding. And on that note, I had it on my mind today to run some Q's/seek comment of a forum member here about this, who is a person who openly professes to be a practicing homosexual and who is also a person I perceive to be truthful -- and I probably will sometime, but I am in the thick of many things, including job applications and interviews to prepare for while I also work a busy schedule... so I might not get to my questions too quick, which aren't even fully formulated in my mind at this point, til things settle down a bit with me]. But what I am saying is, when the statistics are that overboard [even more overboard than the overboard statistical 80-85%, considering that, according to long-popular and much-touted statistics, only 10% of the priests should be homosexuals], and when you are "investigating" the problem to get to the root of it, and refuse to address the biggest most blaring statistical fact, and also get the media to help you mask the fact, then it is evident that you love/idolize something OTHER than the truth, as a large percentage of our leaders have recently made perfectly clear, by systematically refusing to make ANY reference to such blaring and irrefutable facts.





The Holy Church (by that I mean that actual bride of Christ, the actual teaching of the Church - not corrupt people and leaders in it who choose to live in opposition of the Church, by their own rules) does not condemn a man's natural attraction to men, but expects him to live his life chastely, as any Catholic is called to, and expects a priest to live the chaste AND celibate* life he vows himself to live (and if he breaks his vow, like anyone else who breaks a vow, he is to repent). [There are exceptions even in the Roman rite, for example, already married men who are ordained, and then he is not expected to have a celibate marriage, but a normal one]. It's not that hard to be celibate. Particularly and especially because God gives us all the supernatural graces we need to do His will. ALL of them. So if one, for any reason, particularly needs a LOT of supernatural grace in order to be chaste as God calls him to, then God will give him ALL the heaps of grace he needs.

EVERYONE is called to live chastely in the context of their place in life. A priest chooses to make a vow of chastity when he becomes a priest. No one is making him become a priest. He has years of discernment to decide this before he makes his vows of chaste celibacy for life, and is encouraged to bow out if he feels it is not for him.

This chaste life is the teaching of God, not a teaching created by a democracy. So we don't get to say, "Gee, God, I don't like that one, so we are going to vote on another way to think about that." It's not about what feels right to us. "There is a way which seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death." God's ways are not our ways. What seems fine to us is not always fine for us, according to the One Who created and designed us and knows us and loves us more deeply than any human can ever know or love us. His reasons are perfect and based on His unfathomable love for us and His omniscience. So when he says all sex belongs only in marriage, between one man and one woman, it's a perfect law** from the One Who is perfectly loving, merciful and just.

People aren't forced to be Catholic, but, no matter the sacrifice of any desires, vices, previously cherished activities, or habits, people will also choose, over and above all those loves, to be Catholic, and they will keep choosing Catholic, until the end of time, because Jesus, and the Church He founded to give us more of Him, is a pearl of great price, worth giving up everything for.



Yes, certainly - for a devout Catholic. It should and has been a place for a young man to experience true fatherhood and brotherhood as God designed it, which he may have not experienced in his own life previously. But devout Catholics of any orientation have been unwelcome and turned out of seminaries for some decades (that is, since the 50's, at least). In more recent years, the last decade or two, the tide has been turning, and once again devout men are finding and keeping their places in the seminaries). But the kind of men you mention here were victims of a planned infiltration of the Church by those who are trying to ruin it (they won't, but She is suffering) , and many seminarians have been groomed before they even got there and/or were preyed upon when in seminary, while good and devout men with a true vocation were systematically weeded out.



The church embraces everyone and recognizes we are ALL in the need of the supernatural grace of God. As to loving, that is what it is all about. Loving is for everyone, and also chastity is for everyone.




Ug. Well, there always have and always will be sinners. But there have not always been THIS many in the hierarchy. Anyway, we have had altar girls since Vatican 2 - a long, long time ago. I think the altar boy/girls conclusion is a guess of yours, not based on extensive knowledge of the cases? Yes, it has been part of the grooming in some cases, and grooming has been an issue in most or all of those overwhelmingly pederast cases, and the bigger issue is, what is the story behind the worldwide exact-same grooming techniques? For that everything points to the systematic infiltration of the St. Gallen Mafia. I heard someone recently comment that we don't have the same sort of intensive investigation into incoming priests as the FBI does... And then again, there is a good case for the fact that it was well-screened, and that the perverts were picked (and promoted) because they WERE perverts... But this is speculation, even if somewhat informed. The root cause needs to be identified, and more rot exposed.

A popular cultural idea from those outside the church is that natural sexual frustration must be the core of it. Yet, these are unnatural acts against minors (that we all know are wrong, so, we are all outraged), therefore this clearly is not a "natural" sexual frustration to be remedied by a natural marriage, as is often suggested - as if a wife was a miracle worker. (People who make this "marriage-as-a-solution" suggestion forget the fact that "pedophiles", as the media likes to refer to them as, are known to never reform!)

I believe (and I am not alone) that the core problem is that these priests, bishops, and on up, have lost their, or never possessed, supernatural faith. They are therefore powerless to give up their vices, which, like any vice, has them in a grip-hold and runs their life. So they need to fraternize with others who will support their vice, and they need to create a new religion where whatever they feel like doing is a-okay. And they are united in their vigilant and underhanded efforts to try to somehow make this happen - even though it can't, and won't - because the dogma of the Church has never changed and it never can. So while they are doing great damage to the faithful, in the end they will not succeed. And meanwhile there are Catholics all over the world praying and making reparation for these souls lost on "the wide road with the really bad eternal ending", and this is where the REAL power really is. Yes, that holy water and those plastic rosaries - that is truly powerful stuff. So it looks bad now, but God wins in the end.
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* You should know a spiritual mystery: that celibacy is not a less-than or a do-without state. There are great, great spiritual graces in the chaste, celibate life.

**It's God's way, and it's no surprise that all civilizations that uphold this teaching/value rise, and when they dash it aside, so does their civilization with it (it falls). So looking around we can see it does not bode well for our once-great and growing civilization, does it?.
No matter how you spin it pederast = pedophilia if the victim is a child. I don't understand why you keep wanting to make the distinction. Call it what it is. Where are you getting these statistics you keep mentioning? Some pedophiles are opportunists so would go after boys or girls. Others have a preference for ones sex over the other. An example is a pedophile who is married and has sex with his wife but will abuse young boys. He might even identify as a straight man and truly believe he is. I don't think the church has conspired to bring in pedophiles and turn away chaste men. I can't get on board with some of these way out there conspiracy theories. I know you have a thing for conspiracy theories and not just related to this. I just don't think that way so we may not be able to see eye to eye on any issue if it always comes down to conspiracy theories like this. My mind goes back to our interactions in the flat earth thread and I don't want a repeat of that. I hope you understand.

I just assumed there were no altar girls since none of the Greek churches I have attended ever had an altar girl. It has been years since I went into a Greek church but I was in a catholic one when my ex died and they had no altar girls. When I was a small child I remember stepping into an area and an old woman yanked me back and told me that women were not allowed there, not even the priest's wife or daughter.

I do remember hearing rumors as a kid that one priest in our church, whose wife was dying, began an affair with a younger woman (mid 30s) and I was really disturbed that he would do that because he was married. I was still young enough to think it went against everything I thought priests were meant to be. Before that I thought they had some kind of superpowers that made them special or called. Later I realized, as a whole, they were no different than any other human being. They were just men. No supernatural power to resist temptation. I also realized that those who have studied hard to be priests might have way more understanding of human nature than their congregations and do not believe as strongly, in what they preach, due to the knowledge they possess. I can't put this into the right words...