Trauma and effect on type - personal musings

[Tonatiuh]

Communicate what you specifically mean better next time then instead of complaining.

I should probably do that, seeing how it must be harder for you to improve your understanding of the english language.

[sbbds]

I should probably do that, seeing how it must be harder for you to improve your understanding of the english language.

English is my native language. I happen to know it isn’t yours.

I was just adding my own perspective as a tangent to your comment. You didn’t talk about the people in your original comment as if you meant people who had personality disorders. You even said that you didn’t mean unhealthy people in your next reply to me on top of that. What I said echoed that at first, but then in your next post you changed your mind?

[Tonatiuh]

English is my native language. I happen to know it isn’t yours.

I was just adding my own perspective as a tangent to your comment. You didn’t talk about the people in your original comment as if you meant people who had personality disorders. You even said that you didn’t mean unhealthy people in your next reply to me on top of that.

So you're saying that everyone who speak a language natively is automatically better at it than everyone who got it as a secondary one across the board?

Your tangent was inaccurate or at the very least misplaced. Did you feel called out cuz I expressed my displeasure with people who are fake? You seem intent on pinning awards on future achievements while white washing people who are pretenders.

[sbbds]

So you're saying that everyone who speak a language natively is automatically better at it than everyone who got it as a secondary one across the board?

Your tangent was inaccurate or at the very least misplaced. Did you feel called out cuz I expressed my displeasure with people who are fake? You seem intent on pinning awards on future achievements while white washing people who are pretenders.

No but I’m pretty sure you made that comment just because I’m Asian lol. I teach English as well btw and I write and translate/edit academic and official documents in English for work.

It wasnt misplaced. I was literally just wanting to make the comment that people playing make believe or pretending is to an extent natural and doesn’t just happen on forums like these but in IRL too. It wasn’t to contest what you said, but to add to it to broaden the perspective on the issue. There may be some people doing it unhealthily as you later brought up but that’s a different issue. Reread the conversation and you’ll see I was simply following you were saying and doing this.

[Tonatiuh]

No but I’m pretty sure you made that comment just because I’m Asian lol. I teach English as well btw and I write and translate/edit academic and official documents in English for work.

It wasnt misplaced. I was literally just wanting to make the comment that people playing make believe or pretending is to an extent natural and doesn’t just happen on forums like these but in IRL too. It wasn’t to contest what you said, but to add to it to broaden the perspective on the issue. There may be some people doing it unhealthily as you later brought up but that’s a different issue. Reread the conversation and you’ll see I was simply following you were saying and doing this.

I'm not impressed.

The point is that I think it's pathetic to fake your persona based upon stereotypical reasoning. You think it's a way to better ones self. I disagree. What a flat understanding one must have of personality to consider it useful.

Also, about the asian bit. I wasn't commenting on your driving skills.

[sbbds]

I'm not impressed.

The point is that I think it's pathetic to fake your persona based upon stereotypical reasoning. You think it's a way to better ones self. I disagree. What a flat understanding one must have of personality to consider it useful.

It’s too bad you had to act like an insulting, neurotic little bitch to finally get your point across after all this time, after changing your stance multiple times too.

I don’t think it’s bad or unnatural, up to a point mind you if it also comes with self-awareness. “Fake it till you make it” is a thing for a reason. However, it’s probably true that most people on the internet who are doing it in a way that stands out as unnatural are probably doing it unhealthily.

[Tonatiuh]

It’s too bad you had to act like an insulting, neurotic little bitch to finally get your point across after all this time, after changing your stance multiple times too.

I don’t think it’s bad or unnatural, up to a point mind you if it also comes with self-awareness. “Fake it till you make it” is a thing for a reason. However, it’s probably true that most people on the internet who are doing it in a way that stands out as unnatural are probably doing it unhealthily.

I think it's funny that you're arriving at this point contradicting yourself and while not sharing my sentiment that such actions is pathetic but rather saying it's unhealthy. Also, I was not insulting until you were, takes two to tango. My stance never changed, but since this conversation is done through quotes, it will be clear to all who read it that you eventually did. This gives me great pleasure. Thank you.

[Aramas]

Alright, so I thought I would make a post addressing some of the broad concerns that I observed in the replies.

On trauma and difference in personality type.

I do think that trauma affects each human being differently, based on their personality type. However, I purposely skipped over this, in the OP, because I felt that there is more than enough information out that on how stress and/or trauma will affect your type (MBTI, socionics, enneagram, etc.) specifically. And I also think it's extremely intuitive to figure out. I don't mean to say that this is not an important point! It's very important, but I wanted to focus on things that I, personally, haven't seen stated anywhere else. I am still pretty new to socionics, and if there is already information floating around about socionics as it pertains to trauma, I unfortunately haven't come across it yet.

On developmental trauma.

I take a slightly different view on developmental trauma. I don't believe there is such a thing as "not having a sense of self" due to a personality disorder, a developmental trauma, or anything else. I do think that a child has somewhat of an innate temperament, and that gets modified and adjusted according to environment. During psychological development, the child learns to connect with the caregiver - specially the primary caregiver - and feels connected and seen. You can sense this connection with children who haven't even learned to speak, but yet you are communicating with them. We carry this with us, for the rest of our lives, as non-verbal communication. I feel like it's possibly the most beautiful part about an exchange - the emotions are experienced, words are said without speaking, almost as if there is a palpable line connecting the two. A lot can be said in this way. It is very powerful.

I stress this part about connection because I think those with developmental traumas have had this line of connection severed, or short-circuited. It is an extremely painful way to be, and it affects their sense of self. This is where I don't completely agree with personality disorders making it such that someone doesn't have a sense of self. Because the self is a potential, it is a seed - and you had that seed in you the moment you were born. No one can destroy it. But due to lack of attachment and communication (or what Psychology refers to as lack of reflective functioning or mentalization), that seed wasn't allowed to flourish. It feels like you do not exist in the eyes of others. And that is a very painful experience for the one going through it. But that inherent potential for a "self" is still there, even if you don't technically have a sense of it (self). Or, even when your sense of self feels chaotic and shifty.

The attachment facilitates development of the theory of mind (also ref: mirror task). This is what creates a sense of self in the individual, and that self does not exist if it is not so in the eyes of others. Attachment is a crucial thing, and damage to it can greatly harm the individual. Also something slightly random, but this is the reason why identity is important to people. If you cannot respect their self-expression, their sense of self, it feels like they do not completely exist. Hence, I feel like, people get upset over that.

Anyways, coming back to trauma and type - this type of trauma clearly affects type. There is no question about that. Not in the sense that it changes your type, per se, but that it affects your personality type nonetheless - perhaps in the expression of it.

Trauma that does not occur during development, has a higher probability of being dealt with better, assuming adequate support and no other compounding factor(s).

Developmental trauma may very well affect the individual for life.

Also, perhaps slightly tangential, but everyone has all functions. In the case of something like trauma, the psyche feels like it disintegrates, and the individual is in survival mode. So, I am not sure there is any point in trying to differentiate between how an "Ni dom" may respond to trauma, or any other type. Though they will, obviously, have their own unique responses varying by type - eventually. But at the very focal point of the traumatic experience, I am not sure that even matters, since everything will feel like chaos and blur.

On unfair treatment of certain personality types, based on status quo.

From my own experience, I would say society doesn't care nor treat the vulnerable very well. This is compounded by cowardly behaviors by the "henchmen" if you will, of sociopaths. And sociopaths are, unfortunately, everywhere. And no one has the guts to put an end to cruelty happening right in front of their eyes, lest they become the victim themselves.

So, I would say that not only do people, taken as a whole, not seem to care about those that healthy, and may be mistreated - they frequently overlook those that are vulnerable and/or being abused. There is the case of mob mentality as well.

I would suggest that people who need help, find someone they feel safe with and makes them feel better.

=> I should also add, since this seems to be causing some confusion: My take on trauma, for this specific OP, was based on trauma due to abuse experienced through the vulnerable function. So everything else that I mentioned also came out of that central idea. I do not mean to suggest that all traumas are experienced the way I described them. However, I feel - I hope! - that there is quite a bit in there that many people will be able to relate to. I think my central theme(s) were: abuse of vulnerable aspects of the personality type, attempt at coping with that abuse, and the resultant fracture in personality. But I do think that what I described broadens beyond that as well.

It's not possible to over-use the ego block.

I don't really agree, but I don't have a lot to say on this, at the moment. I do understand what you are trying to say. It wouldn't make sense to over-use something that you are already expending maximum energy on. But what I was attempting to point out, was that people may go into over-drive on their primary functions (should also throw in inferior grip theory from MBTI, since it would probably be in conjunction with that) when they are under great stress. And in such a way that most others would find it extreme and repelling.

An individual is more than their type.

There is way too much that can be said about this. Esoteric systems like the enneagram, and probably several more, are founded on the idea that ultimately "who you are" is oneness. That is something interesting to ponder, but I am not going in that direction, for this post.

Abuse through the suggestive function(s).

Very interesting. This is not something I had thought about before, and would love to hear people expand more on that.

Abuse through the suggestive function is the easiest. It's the function of which one has the least conscious knowledge, so it's like the backdoor into a person's psyche. Someone tends to accept whatever information comes in on that function without criticism. Once habits are made in that area, they are supposedly very difficult to break, and can take years to reprogram.

If the programming is good, it becomes a spine that's very hard to break. Conversely, if it's filled with unhelpful suggestions and methods, it can be like the thing that always trips you up.

It's a point of extreme sensitivity, in other words. People often get the PoLR and suggestive function's traits mixed up. The PoLR can be a painful area but only if people have received lots of criticism about it, or they ignore it without backup from the superid and it comes knocking unexpectedly one day. The suggestive function on the other hand is the softest and almost always present button in the core of a person's unconscious psyche.

The DS is the function that you secretly want to succeed at the most but you don't tell anyone openly about it. It's the teddy bear at the bottom of your heart. If you're told that you fail at it, or that it's meaningless and not worth your time (or, worst of all, that it's evil), it hurts deeply. The DS is the source of a person's compassion. This is why conflict hurts so badly. Imagine someone telling you that the thing you love the most is worthless garbage.

Tell an Fi dom that they're stupid or can't do anything right, or an Ne dom that they look fucked up, or a Ti dom that no one likes them, or an Ni dom that they seem pretty weak, etc.

It's possible that duals are not aware of each other's weaknesses at first, and they accidentally hurt each other. They think to themselves, "Wow, I didn't expect that to hurt." That's because for the dual, the weakest function is the strongest. They have absolutely no issues there and don't expect anyone to be the same. People are afraid of duals when they've had negative experiences with the DS function.

Sometimes the DS is so sensitive that even mentioning the topic is enough to cause extreme pain.

Your dual and conflictor are the two types that have the best ability to either make you or break you.

It's sometimes hard to tell the difference between the PoLR and DS. They are both not so good areas. The difference between them is something you can sense in practice by observing what someone will never be good at no matter how hard they try, versus something that is a very deeply hidden strength at a core of a person's psyche.

For example, an Ni dominant type has very deeply hidden toughness of Se, while the Fi dominant types can have a shocking intellect, and the Ti dominant types can, on rare occasion, make ******'s charisma look like child's play.

People who are really really mean to people are often people who were denied help with the DS function or people who had the PoLR imposed on them, or both. People can get so fucked up that they deny aid with the DS or from the dual type. Look at Voldemort. He pushed Bellatrix away even though she was the only one who really wanted to help him completely (she was the only undying, perfectly loyal servant he had), and if he had taken her advice and let her kill Harry Potter, Dumbledore's plan would have failed and Voldemort would have won. He literally had to do absolutely nothing to win, but he fucked up.

[Sol]

Abuse through the suggestive function is the easiest.

Role and suggestive have the similar strenght and are the weakest by Jung (though he did not described "role" one). The most problematic types are superego - they have the abbility to produce neurotic psyche issues the most. While duals have _the least_ possibility for this.
Hypotethically, the difference mb in acceptance of duals influence, while superego create inner conflicts which lead to neurotic symptoms. People resist to superego influence as it was given in "wrong" way, instead of processing it; this influence may go on deeper levels and stay there unresolved by conscious normal processes, the inner conflict stays and produces symptoms. While duals influence you absorb, it does not create stable inner conflict in unconsciousness, it does not freezes somewhere as has no resistance.

Mb superegos may create psyche issues through your suggestive (in conjuction with your role) function the most. While duals should to have the least chance for this.
You may dislike something did at your suggestive region by your dual, but it does not create traumas or psyche issues, - it's processed as should.

> It's possible that duals are not aware of each other's weaknesses at first, and they accidentally hurt each other.

The reason of problems is mostly in own weak regions.
Duals may understand the weaknesses of each other. But it needs time to adopt the behavior. T types generally see good logical problems of F types. But to deal with people needs taking into account also emotions, what is weak side of T types. They need to study how to express own opinions and to behave to hurt the feelings of their dual lesser. While F types are motivated by emotions to think many things, while they'd need to think better, to become lesser asured where they have the lack of info, to accept easier another sometimes lesser pleasant views - so to lesser provoke the critique and disagreements.
Duals adopt to each other easier than other types.

> People are afraid of duals when they've had negative experiences with the DS function.

People have irrational trust to duals the most, and should to keep it despite their experience with some examples. The same is with all IR - they are stable, may be changed only the perception of concrete people.

What you say is baseless heresy, controversing to the practice. You assign to duals the effects of superegos.
While what Venus Rose does in this theme is the rationalization of the wrong opinion about own type.