Quote Originally Posted by mrrrmaid View Post
It's worth remembering here that it's not Sx = aggression and So = sad in general but specifically when talking about 4. Social three and seven aren't sad, for example.

From what I understand, Sx 4 is aggressive because they have a sense of demanding what is rightfully theirs (at least in the Chestnut / Naranjo descriptions - though these are more extreme I think). They want to be special and significant in the eyes of their partner, which makes them jealous, possessive and angry when they aren't. Then with So 4, I think Olympia described it well with saying they both love and hate the fact that they don't fit in, but in whichever way they feel it, they are VERY aware of it. It's being able to read social situations with incredible detail and then focusing on every way in which they fall short (such as: "my joke didn't get as many laughs as my friend's joke", "I tripped and everybody saw", "everyone is talking about this thing and I don't know about it", "other people make friends easier than I do" or alternatively: "my joke was too clever for people to understand", "everybody likes this thing and I don't because I have better taste", "I'm more complicated which is why I don't fit in"). So that's why they feel shame more acutely. Shame is probably a better word than sad.


Thank you. For me, I'm a jealous and possessive person, though I wouldn't necessarily expect my hypothetical partner to live accordingly (in other words, to always make the decisions that don't hurt my feelings). I don't resonate with the aggression aspect. I try to not let those feelings completely guide the way I behave towards people (make me a dick). I try to be as fair and soft-spoken as I can be. For me, jealousy and possessiveness results in sadness and maybe avoidness. Not hostility, and certainly not aggression. And so I don't see how aggression fits in with intimacy (Sx), individuality (Four), etc. But oh well. Guess I'll never understand it.






Quote Originally Posted by Neokortex View Post
"intuitively enlightened being?" Sounds like a marketing slogan for one of these "spiritual" esoteric businesses. Anyways, "instincts" is a misleading word, they had to be branded somehow. The debate is still on whether or not humans, as a species, have "instincts."



Yes. Thank you for your insight. I have a slightly different perspective, but you sound quite skeptical. "You must believe, Neo." - some quote from some crappy, overrated movie.





Also, my honest opinion is that it's quite childish and rude to label people 'beta males' and 'alpha males' and so on and so forth.. As you guys are doing here.





Quote Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
I still wouldn't suggest going by the CN description, and it's even more dangerous to amplify some things and make it sound like oh but the CN description isn't so far off...no it seems very far off, and it's unfair to twist and fit things into it. It should fit comfortably, otherwise there is no need to twist yourself to fit into it.

I have a little theory, which I could be wrong about. I don't know. But I find it difficult to imagine a truly narcissistic Fi-dom, specially EIIs who belong to Delta. I have never thought something was "rightfully mine," or been aggressive the way the description suggests. I am not capable of that level of cruelty, unless of course if I were pushed into it due to trauma etc. because at that point people can be pushed into doing anything unconsciously.

Anyways, I mean...being jealous when you feel like you are not good enough, feeling at least some sense of hate because the other person is better than you in some way, better able to be loved, more 'attractive' (though I suspect Fi users might translate attractive into "lovable" that may be how the instinct operates in them...at least that's how I make sense of it anyway). Well these feelings - I don't know, they seem kind of...just human to me.

I think one thing to remember with the enneagram is that it's highlighting your negative potential or qualities, and it is an option for you to get to know yourself better such that you don't given in quite so much to your negative qualities. What they call "integration."

Anyways, I don't come on here very much. If you want to have a longer conversation about this, we can (you know how to get in touch Btw, this is Venus Rose).


Thank you, Venus.