Steve Jobs

[mfckr]

BUT, ENFj's are much nicer to their staff and are much kinder to work with. :

Sigh. Being nice or being rude, being kind or being unkind - it's not type related. It's person related. Some ENFjs are great to work with, and I know this from experience. Not all will be. I don't think everyone's favorite ENFj to mention, you know, the one with the little square mustache, was all that nice or fun to work with for example.

Lol. Maritsa thinks ****** was ENTp.

Hey Maritsa, was type is Gaddafi?

[MisterNi]

Yeah, plus no one really associates ENFj with everyone's favorite historical German anymore. I think that was a time when this place was a lot more hostile to ethical types in general.

[squark]

Yeah, plus no one really associates ENFj with everyone's favorite historical German anymore. I think that was a time when this place was a lot more hostile to ethical types in general.

[Beautiful sky]

Sigh. Being nice or being rude, being kind or being unkind - it's not type related. It's person related. Some ENFjs are great to work with, and I know this from experience. Not all will be. I don't think everyone's favorite ENFj to mention, you know, the one with the little square mustache, was all that nice or fun to work with for example.

Lol. Maritsa thinks ****** was ENTp.

Hey Maritsa, was type is Gaddafi?

probably IEI

[Gilly]

EIE

Beta extrovert.

Do you sincerely consider the possibility that Steve Jobs is SLE?

[717495]

Do you sincerely consider the possibility that Steve Jobs is SLE?

EIE and SLE are similar types. It's a common delusion that people think duals or activators are that much different from one another, so sometimes people are mistyped as another type in their quadra when there's not enough information to go on, since they utilize the same functions/mentality.

[Nico1e]

why is this page not working???

Uh, he's ENFj.

Yes, I totally agree with the EIE thing. I've read that on some of the socionics websites. I get that mixture of admiration and liking that I feel for NFs, mixed with the 'OMG, I can barely stand to read this,' feeling, mixed with the 'But I have to keep on reading until it's over' feeling. It's this desperate torture of struggling to hunt for crumbs of Ne and Fi, and just barely seeing a twisted shadow of them, but knowing that they're in there somewhere. Every time I read about Steve Jobs and his life and his businesses and the computer products he sells, I get annoyed about fifty different things that I think he's doing wrong, but can't tell him.

He's using lots of Ni. What is our life's pathway? Where is it leading? What is the purpose behind it all?

[Gilly]

Do you sincerely consider the possibility that Steve Jobs is SLE?

EIE and SLE are similar types. It's a common delusion that people think duals or activators are that much different from one another, so sometimes people are mistyped as another type in their quadra when there's not enough information to go on, since they utilize the same functions/mentality.

So you don't have a reason, you're just covering your ass.

No.

You're trying to make it look like you don't automatically agree with Ashton. You just happened to pick a particular awkward time to make such a show, because anyone with a brain can see that Jobs is not fucking Se dominant. He also maintains Fe "streaks" with noticeable composure.

[717495]

You just happened to pick a particular awkward time to make such a show, because anyone with a brain can see that Jobs is not fucking Se dominant. He also maintains Fe "streaks" with noticeable composure.

I don't even know what you're talking about--stop making up things to say to sound knowledgeable on the subject. And he utilizes both Se and Fe well.

[Gilly]

Making up things? I'm just talking about what I see. Fe dominants tend to go on "streaks" where their emotional energy is elevated noticeably; Ti creatives sometimes try this, but they lose their composure more quickly and aren't as sort of flawless at holding their composure and verbal fluidity while deliberately maintaining an internally elevated state.

[Gilly]

I don't see how anyone could mistake Jobs for an Se dominant.

[Nico1e]

Yeah, plus no one really associates ENFj with everyone's favorite historical German anymore. I think that was a time when this place was a lot more hostile to ethical types in general.

You used my favorite smiley! But what on earth does it mean?

[Gilly]

Weeeeeeeeeell they can go fuck themselves.

[717495]

I tend to go with EIE for him (I just posted Beta earlier when I got a quick hunch) but your explanation of elevated emotionality has little to do with being Fe dominant at the core of personality; any type whether they're Fe, Fi, Fi-PoLR can be like that. Fe is a type of humanistic orientation and disposition, not some diminishment of other cognition for the sake of human emotionality. However you word it doesn't matter, your views on Fe dominance are off.

I don't see how anyone could mistake Jobs for an Se dominant.

Well, it's simple if they understand the difference between an EIE using Se, versus a type who doesn't appear to acknowledge Se. You can always mistake quadra members for one another, that's the most obvious thing about Socionics.

[Gilly]

I tend to go with EIE for him but your explanation of elevated emotionality has little to do with being Fe dominant at the core of personality; any type whether they're Fe, Fi, Fi-PoLR can be like that. Fe is a type of humanistic orientation and disposition, not some diminishment of other cognition for the sake of human emotionality. However you word it doesn't matter, your views on Fe dominance are off.

Word what? Ejs temperament is distinguished by sustained levels of high mental activity - the "linear-energetic" temperament. Of course any type CAN be like that; everyone has all of the functions, according to just about every model of Socionics ever created (except the one you worship....SURPRISE), including the original. But it's most natural, most native to Ej types, and this shows through because they typically have the best composure in maintaining these higher levels of energy and mental activity. Manifesting an excess of emotional energy and channeling it in a composed manner is undeniably something that Fe dominants do more naturally than other types.

Well, it's simple if they understand the difference between an EIE using Se, versus a type who doesn't appear to acknowledge Se. You can always mistake quadra members for one another, that's the most obvious thing about Socionics.

What? No it's not. Do you know how retarded you sound? Do you know how foolish most people would be to mistake an IEI for an SLE or vice versa? An EIE for an LSI? I mean, don't get me wrong, sometimes there are ambiguities, but duals tend to be pretty different people in terms of external manifestation of personality, even if their cognition is similar. Behaviors, interests, the way they word things, the beliefs they have; all sorts of things can be similar, but, well, would you ever mistake a Jake Gyllenhaal for a Donald Trump? A Steve Jobs for a Joseph Stalin? Stirtlitz for Dostoyevski? Give me a fucking break kid.

[Gilly]

For the record, I am not objecting to the notion that EIEs can sometimes easily be mistaken for SLEs, and vice versa.

However I DEFINITELY object to the idea that it's the "most obvious thing about Socionics" that quadra members can be mistaken for each other. Perhaps we should poll the forum on what is obvious? Perhaps we should ask you one year ago before you got tangled in the Ashton Club? Was it obvious then? I'm sure you'll say yes now so don't bother searching your soul or anything (although if you could find a relevant post I'd gladly be proven wrong).

I do think that Steve Jobs is pretty fucking obviously not SLE, and I do think you are mentally dependent on Ashton.

[717495]

Word what? Ejs temperament is distinguished by sustained levels of high mental activity - the "linear-energetic" temperament. Of course any type CAN be like that; everyone has all of the functions, according to just about every model of Socionics ever created (except the one you worship....SURPRISE), including the original. But it's most natural, most native to Ej types, and this shows through because they typically have the best composure in maintaining these higher levels of energy and mental activity. Manifesting an excess of emotional energy and channeling it in a composed manner is undeniably something that Fe dominants do more naturally than other types.

You're twisting things here to include the alleged necessities of typing someone EIE, and while ignoring the obvious, not really grasping the essential difference between those couple of types. There's nothing new I haven't heard.

What? No it's not. Do you know how retarded you sound? Do you know how foolish most people would be to mistake an IEI for an SLE or vice versa? An EIE for an LSI? I mean, don't get me wrong, sometimes there are ambiguities, but duals tend to be pretty different people in terms of external manifestation of personality, even if their cognition is similar. Behaviors, interests, the way they word things, the beliefs they have; all sorts of things can be similar, but, well, would you ever mistake a Jake Gyllenhaal for a Donald Trump? A Steve Jobs for a Joseph Stalin? Stirtlitz for Dostoyevski? Give me a fucking break kid.

No.

[Gilly]

What exactly am I twisting? What's wrong? Why don't you give specifics instead of stupid pathetic carte-blanche excuses? You're full of shit. Either put up or run and get daddy Ashton to talk for you so I can make an ass out of him too.

[717495]

You know exactly what I'm talking about, your ILE self just wants to continue a circular argument of sportsmanship. No, I'm done.

[Nico1e]

Grr. I have seen many threads where people talk about mistaking someone for their duals, for instance. It's even easier online when you can only read what someone's writing. Right now I myself have been labeled an EII by Ineffable, and I've been writings posts about that very thing this morning. It happens. That's the reason why we say things like "I get the feeling this person is (Quadra)." You don't know which type they are, but you can say in a very general way that they seem to have those quadra values. The quadras are really useful for that.

[1981slater]

You used my favorite smiley! But what on earth does it mean?

When someone says something silly in Japanese Cartoons, that plant appears.

[Gilly]

You know exactly what I'm talking about, your ILE self just wants to continue a circular argument of sportsmanship. No, I'm done.

 

No, you're just a fucking pussy who doesn't even know how to answer to real rationale.

You have no reason to say the things you're saying except to provide for the facade for yourself that you truly considered that he might be SLE because you don't want to look like or believe that you are following Ashton

 

around like a spineless ******

.

Just face it. Even your self-presentation has changed since you started hanging around him. You used to be just a normal, nice guy who was honest about not understanding things fully;

 

now it's like someone has made a photocopy of Galen's sugar-coated passive-aggressive ******ry

and plastered it on top of the insecurity that was part of your actual self, just so you don't have to doubt or something. Don't be a fucking coward. People who don't doubt themselves are either full of shit or have a layer of emotional saran wrap over their true thoughts and feelings, usually because they feel the need to have SOMETHING to show others, or because they want to belong, or because they are just plain embarrassed. You're turning yourself into someone like those queer ass Ayn Rand worshipers who think that agreeing with someone who seems strong makes them stronger. It doesn't. It makes you the weakest thing possible: dependent.

Don't be that. Stand on your own two fucking feet.

[717495]

 

No, you're just a fucking pussy who doesn't even know how to answer to real rationale.

You have no reason to say the things you're saying except to provide for the facade for yourself that you truly considered that he might be SLE because you don't want to look like or believe that you are following Ashton

 

around like a spineless ******

.

Just face it. Even your self-presentation has changed since you started hanging around him. You used to be just a normal, nice guy who was honest about not understanding things fully;

 

now it's like someone has made a photocopy of Galen's sugar-coated passive-aggressive ******ry

and plastered it on top of the insecurity that was part of your actual self, just so you don't have to doubt or something. Don't be a fucking coward. People who don't doubt themselves are either full of shit or have a layer of emotional saran wrap over their true thoughts and feelings, usually because they feel the need to have SOMETHING to show others, or because they want to belong, or because they are just plain embarrassed. You're turning yourself into someone like those queer ass Ayn Rand worshipers who think that agreeing with someone who seems strong makes them stronger. It doesn't. It makes you the weakest thing possible: dependent.

Don't be that. Stand on your own two fucking feet.

You are a true quack. Thanks for the, uh, life lesson.

[Gilly]

Don't fool yourself into thinking I actually give a shit; mostly I am looking to just cut down on the amount of rampant bullshit on this forum. It's still all true though.

Maybe you should ask someone that you trust, outside of your new circle, if they think you have "changed" since you started reading from the book of Ashton.

[mfckr]

Hi Gilly,

What's the matter?

[Anglas]

Yeah EIE. Just because Ashton said that ^ _ ^

Grr. I have seen many threads where people talk about mistaking someone for their duals, for instance. It's even easier online when you can only read what someone's writing. Right now I myself have been labeled an EII by Ineffable, and I've been writings posts about that very thing this morning. It happens. That's the reason why we say things like "I get the feeling this person is (Quadra)." You don't know which type they are, but you can say in a very general way that they seem to have those quadra values. The quadras are really useful for that.

He typed me LIE. He could be wrong.

[DividedsGhost]

mistaking someone for their dual = FAIL.

Do you sincerely consider the possibility that Steve Jobs is SLE?

EIE and SLE are similar types. It's a common delusion that people think duals or activators are that much different from one another, so sometimes people are mistyped as another type in their quadra when there's not enough information to go on, since they utilize the same functions/mentality.

they are only common for people that make poor associations with the functions, like SLEs having angry loud obnoxious Fe or EIEs being blatantly aggressive and brazen. it's a poor method of typing to begin with.

[squark]

You used my favorite smiley! But what on earth does it mean?

In this context, I'm the little yellow guy, and the comment I'm responding to is the tumbleweed. Just watching it roll by with a degree of amazement, finding nothing to say. I don't know what it's supposed to mean, just seemed appropriate.

[Gilly]

Hi Gilly,

What's the matter?

Your peons provide insufficient challenge.

[thePirate]

What exactly am I twisting? What's wrong? Why don't you give specifics instead of stupid pathetic carte-blanche excuses?

poli Ive never really seen you give an explanation for anything, it does makes a lot of what you say seem mindlessly parroted or off base. it's almost like you're allergic to reason.

[717495]

Explanation doesn't help here, it just provides more means to get carried away, when the obvious speaks for itself. Idk what to say.

Also, what is everything, you refer to? When I already explained why I type Johnny Depp or lots of others, it's not all in the specific explanation. Its also just having the right outlook on the types and to not contradict all the time what has been already said about the functions, or to yield to personal favor in typings without exploring all the possibilities. Others like myself have explained the general reasoning on types, which relates directly back to Jung typology, so there really should be no confusion. There is more to learn in general than in specific, since the former can be applied anywhere, and the latter can be instinctual.

[Gilly]

"Everything is obvious"

Trademark.

[MisterNi]

Steve Jobs is ENTp. Ashton just wishes he wasn't so he could continue hating on other ENTp.

[mfckr]

.

[DividedsGhost]

It's completely pointless to "explain" typings, since no matter what evidence and support is provided, every motherfucker on here just sees what they want to see.

This is what happens in lieu of any acceptable interpretative standards.

some people actually do listen to your reasoning, even if they end up disregarding it. it's helpful to know as much as possible not to miss anything important. if you have a well-thought out, logically consistent explanation that doesn't ignore Jung for convenience of thought, you will convince those people; you will convince me.

[thePirate]

"Everything is obvious"

Trademark.

I don't think anything about your typing methodology or the way you interpret information elements is 'obvious', to keep espousing that is not only condescending but inaccurate - if it were that way people would not be asking how you arrived to such conclusions.

It's completely pointless to "explain" typings, since no matter what evidence and support is provided, every motherfucker on here just sees what they want to see.

This is what happens in lieu of any acceptable interpretative standards.

some people actually do listen to your reasoning, even if they end up disregarding it. it's helpful to know as much as possible not to miss anything important. if you have a well-thought out, logically consistent explanation that doesn't ignore Jung for convenience of thought, you will convince those people; you will convince me.

[Beautiful sky]

We all agree that he's an N type.

Good start!

[Exodus]

It's completely pointless to "explain" typings, since no matter what evidence and support is provided, every motherfucker on here just sees what they want to see.

wowwwwww. If you think it's pointless to explain typings, why do you even bother giving your opinion? This is a great way to avoid intellectual accountability.

In any case, I'm ok with Jobs as EIE but reading this speech actually makes me think more about IEI, as there is a lot of talk about death and stuff.

[mfckr]

.

[717495]

I can't convince a dog who only knows basic tricks for example to do my laundry, unless they have something more to prove to me or themselves. I think the whole existence on this forum for us has been having extensive arguments with people who don't get it (in both the senses of not wanting to believe it, or not grasping it), and I've tried my share, we all have, esp. with a number of ILEs who are always taking a different route and challenging the normal. Where as we see it as obvious because it simply is, that's why we have such a good understanding amongst ourselves when we speak in agreeable terms about Jung and types, and we try to be as exacting of each type's very general mindset without detaching people into stereotypes, as much as we can. It's not an exaggeration, just an observation.

The main thing to do to understand our point of view without the unnecessary repetition and rebutchering of essential ideas every time a new person needs to be typed, is get in on the active type discussions we have and learn from the examples and context. There are plenty of examples to learn from (which has been my method of understanding and making sense of it all, an empirical and mutual understanding with people, and something to me has been standing out more and more, much more than it ever has without Jungian roots and a key intelligence here. It's not supposed to be 'obvious' at first.)