Typing

[Myst]

Interesting test but it seems to be at least somewhat confounded by subtypes. Result says SLE but comparing which functions are weaker than "standard" and stronger than "standard" as well as the dichotomies tells an interesting story.

I score on that test by dichotomies as (i)STj, where the "i" is barely existing over the midline (barely over zero).

The reinin traits are useless lol.

Si negative score instead of positive
Ni half the negative score of normal
Ne equally negative scored with Ni
Ti far above "normal"
Te above "normal"
Fi less negative than normal
Fe marginally less negative than normal

Lol you sound pretty similar to me, again (with a difference for Fe and Si, Fe is lower for me and Si is higher but not terribly high for an LSI).

Your new questionnaire answers are consistent with these test results too.

Interesting you say that cause another test has given me LSI-Ti twice with months apart. A self-type LSI-Se says Se seems more on/off rather than omnipresent for me as a contrast with the impression self-typed SLEs give. I generally leave the door 15-20% open on which at any given time since I seem to come down in the middle on many dichotomies just by self-assessment from descriptions.

Yah these tests only go that far.

I'll give a little analysis of your new questionnaire, far from exhaustive tho'.



But first I'll also answer another post of yours

Yeah I'm not sure what's going on there lmao I've been told since I got here I have stronger Fe than typical LSI's, but at the same time I'm pretty sure I have weaker Se than SLE's

Now what I think would be useful is if you fleshed out in everyday words as to what it means "have stronger Fe than typical LSI'".

Weaker Se, I think I know what you mean there, about your dislike of excessive materialism. Or anything else you had in mind here?


Random q from earlier stuff, you said "As for me when I stopped trying to pidgeonhole what I should believe or support into another person's framework and said "fuck it" it came as a huge relief and made a lot of topics a lot more fun."

How did that happen btw, that you stopped?

I hate having to badger client contacts into moving and doing their jobs, writing reports, and having to spend hours poking at a website trying to find the 1 thing that works.

Haha, because you need the zen state to do the patient poking for hours? (Or?)

What conflicts have you encountered recently with other people? Why did they happen? Which kinds seem to happen on a regular basis?

Only two real conflicts recently, snapping at someone trying to crawl around in my head and dig into my personal history and the other being just an irreconcilable clash of values. The latter happens on a regular basis as I don't give people many options for the former.

I can see why you relate to Obstinate as far as the description for that trait goes lol

How would your friends describe you?

A loyal and lovable asshole with a clear personal sense of right and wrong

I do think this theme of you paying attention to what's right and wrong is strong and consistent.

It's one of the main things that keeps me focused on LSI>SLE for you. It being far more characteristic of a Ti lead type (or Ij in general).

What are your weaknesses? What criticism do you often face from others? What do you dislike about yourself?

Poor imagination/creativity. I get locked into tunnel-vision very frequently and hate having to step out of that. I'm also pretty bad at communication with people I'm not particularly invested in. Both of these are criticisms I receive and dislike about myself.

And then these things also for LSI>SLE, lower Ne and Fe.

(And yeah, I'm sure I already said that I 1000% relate to these traits.)

1D Fe rather than 2D Fe (weaker), since you are more selective.

What things do you dislike doing? What things do you enjoy more than others?

Paperwork, meetings, badgering client contacts to do their jobs so I'm able to do mine, cleaning/housekeeping, being asked to explain and justify disparate preferences or assumptions. Winning, laughing with a group of friends or friendly acquaintances, finding meaning and purpose in something

Trouble with disparate preferences/assumptions sounds Ne PoLR/Rational/Ti

How do you react to conflict? What do you do if somebody insults or attacks you?

If it's someone I don't really care about or if it's a subject I really care about I can try to win at all costs including personal attacks and torpedo'ing a friendly relationship with the other person. If it's someone I value or wanted to be on good terms with I tend to fall-back and consider that person an enemy and avoid them if possible.

I see this as far more Fe DS than Fe HA. Fe HA would be less black and white and less passive with managing the manifestations of the relationship. Fe HA basically can try and use emotional expressions and explicitly affirmative/etc Fe talks rather than just cut them off in a black and white way emotionally.

The black and white attitude emotionally and the passivity in terms of emotional "manipulation" of the relationship applies even if there is effort made to repair the relationship (say if it was an important enough relationship etc).

And of course Fe HA can also cut people off but you really just wrote about passive avoidance and black-white judging.

What is one common misconception that people have about things? Explain why it is wrong.

That nationalism and exclusion is necessarily hateful or antagonistic and that discernment is criticism

Great point re: discernment

Who do you admire, and why?

People that can affect change and inspire people.

Say more on this.

What kind of work environment do you prefer? What do you look for in a job?

I prefer mostly solo work in a group setting with people you can joke around with without having to worry about HR wrapping you on the knuckles. I look for a chance to do cool shit and have fun with people

Rather introverted answer.

What is or was your favorite school subject and why?

History, because I like learning about the events and understanding the narrative of past goings on

Seems like a bit of an actively independent use of Ni. I have the same btw lol (tho' history for me wasn't my fav. This actually makes me feel like you have stronger Ni than I do lol. Not hard to achieve that accomplishment tho'... )

How do you approach responsibility? What do you tend to expect of others?

If you signed up for something then don't try to shirk the costs, implications, and responsibilities that come with it. You made your bed, now lay in it.

Again hell yeah

I don't want to strictly link this on its own to type because other things affect sense of responsibility too, but you do seem way more consistently focused on duties than any Exxp would be. It's an approach most natural for Ixxjs.

What were you like as a kid? How have you changed since you were a child?

A socially anxious shut-in that was terrified of people. Not socially anxious anymore and people are a mixed back but can be pretty great when you click.

Quite strong indication of introversion. I.e. your default response to stress was with an introverted, not an extraverted orientation. Ofcourse big stress I'm sure can affect extraverted types to the degree of turning introverted-ish. But I get the sense that for you it's the default approach.

Talk about a significant event from your life.

I took my USMC recruiters' words about integrity to heart and demanded that they correct my paperwork that they falsified even if it would hamper my options, and when they tried to talk me about of it for 3 hours I walked out on them and went back to college.

You went overly conscientious there even for Ixxj lol.

If you were to raise a child, what would be your main concerns, what measures would you take, and why?

Instilling the awareness to make good decisions with regards to long-term consequences, and the fortitude to say no to teachers and peers that will try to steer them wrong.

I see this as quite Ti/Ni>Se/Fe.

Ever feel stuck in a rut? If yes, describe the causes and your reaction to it.

Yes. The cause was a month of lazy troublesome clients and my reaction was to find a new job opportunity and immediately apply

Okay just to not sound entirely monotone about your typing lol, this is Se for sure in this case (not that I'm saying this is SLE specific. Se creative is able to get impulsive and even brash too).

How do you see other people as a whole? What do you consider a prevalent social problem? Name one.

I don't see people as a whole. I see them as multiple wholes. People aren't allowed to identify as any sort of group and advocate for their interest outside of materialistic brand consumption.

Out of curiosity, multiple wholes...?

Are you comfortable taking leadership roles? In what areas? Why or why not?

Pretty apathetic about leadership. I like solitary work in a group setting.

More introversion

How often do you get angry? What kinds of things make you angry?

Somewhat often. Indecision, wasting my time, over-emphasis on materialistic concerns

Bit more Se creative than Se lead if these are the two options.

Do you like surprises?

Pretty apathetic to surprises.

Not very into Ep-like change (though ofcourse Ne is better at this than Se)

[Sisyphean]

I score on that test by dichotomies as (i)STj, where the "i" is barely existing over the midline (barely over zero).

The reinin traits are useless lol.

lol yeah that's what I'm starting to think, as well. I come down in the middle of so many of them when reading descriptions.

Lol you sound pretty similar to me, again (with a difference for Fe and Si, Fe is lower for me and Si is higher but not terribly high for an LSI).

Your new questionnaire answers are consistent with these test results too.

That's pretty much the impression I had gotten so far lol so tat least there's that?

Now what I think would be useful is if you fleshed out in everyday words as to what it means "have stronger Fe than typical LSI'".

Weaker Se, I think I know what you mean there, about your dislike of excessive materialism. Or anything else you had in mind here?

For Se: Less omnipresent and constant. Like you said, more on/off. Applied when I need it as opposed to a default mode of operation.

For Fe: More expressive. More effort trying to get things to be laid back and have fun.

Random q from earlier stuff, you said "As for me when I stopped trying to pidgeonhole what I should believe or support into another person's framework and said "fuck it" it came as a huge relief and made a lot of topics a lot more fun."

How did that happen btw, that you stopped?

Dunno how things are over there but politically in America things (while I was growing up) got sorted either into two different kinds of bundled ways of thinking. For a very long time in the ideological wilderness it was spent trying to double down and define and adhere to a more consistent "true" system from some central principles of one of those two ways of thinking. A lot of it was coming to conclusions that are dog shit and I didn't really like/agree with but bit my tongue going "Well, that's how this stupid principle plays out so I guess that's how it is." About 6 years spent going down different rabbit holes trying to force my positions into unrealistic and stupid frameworks based on abstract and unworkable principles that result in completely repellent conclusions (eg. the "non-aggression principle" leading to complete atomism and social apathy to abusive practices by people or groups, shrugging off the life expectancy falling among my people due to suicide and drug abuse because "that's not my problem," and thinking that things are necessarily better because I can buy more cheap plastic shit from china for less this year than last year).

That stopped when I gave less of a shit about consistency and stuck more with just what I think is true or right, and had a minor realization that I was doing a lot of that ideological wandering because I wanted some sort of "us" or team to be on to struggle against the other team. A collective purpose and meaning to belong to and work for.

Haha, because you need the zen state to do the patient poking for hours? (Or?)

More or less, yeah. There are so many possibilities for what might work and meticulously going through each and every one makes me want to pull my hair out more each time it doesn't work. Then in the back of my mine my I know my LII or ILE co-worker would likely see the potential likely alternative almost immediately. That process of sorting through myriad potentialities is like pulling teeth.

I do think this theme of you paying attention to what's right and wrong is strong and consistent.

It's one of the main things that keeps me focused on LSI>SLE for you. It being far more characteristic of a Ti lead type (or Ij in general).

lol I was getting that impression when answering the questions. I was wondering if someone was going to jump in and say ESI because of that.

And then these things also for LSI>SLE, lower Ne and Fe.

(And yeah, I'm sure I already said that I 1000% relate to these traits.)

1D Fe rather than 2D Fe (weaker), since you are more selective.

lol yeah the only time I have any creativity is within appropriate jokes. lucky me .

Trouble with disparate preferences/assumptions sounds Ne PoLR/Rational/Ti

Been told all my life I'm an opinionated dick lol coming to conclusions I'll argue over on a subject I've only just learned about.

I see this as far more Fe DS than Fe HA. Fe HA would be less black and white and less passive with managing the manifestations of the relationship. Fe HA basically can try and use emotional expressions and explicitly affirmative/etc Fe talks rather than just cut them off in a black and white way emotionally.

The black and white attitude emotionally and the passivity in terms of emotional "manipulation" of the relationship applies even if there is effort made to repair the relationship (say if it was an important enough relationship etc).

And of course Fe HA can also cut people off but you really just wrote about passive avoidance and black-white judging.

Gotcha, thanks for the clarification. Last time it got really bad in a case of getting nasty with someone was a person I was pretty friendly with attacking some things that mean a lot to me, in a way/perspective that is completely repulsive to me, so it turned into a couple hours of attacking each other leading to attacking him with personal private information just to shut him up. Still feel kind of bad about that. Other times it might be throwing out an idea and getting a really antagonistic response from someone I think was pretty alright, and the response is just to wash my hands, go "shit, I thought you were cool. Guess not" and cut them out.

Great point re: discernment

Thanks lol people that treat the very idea of exclusive definitions or valuations as innately immoral drive me up the walls.

Say more on this.

I love sound clips, videos, personal interactions etc. where someone can speak in a rousing and emotionally evocative way, cut through a lot of bullshit and clearly say "this is what matters, and is worth moving mountains and giving everything for." There are a lot of quotes from saints and early 20th century politicians that have that effect, and I can never get enough of it.

Seems like a bit of an actively independent use of Ni. I have the same btw lol (tho' history for me wasn't my fav. This actually makes me feel like you have stronger Ni than I do lol. Not hard to achieve that accomplishment tho'... )

lmao yeah I only realized it after a few college course as an (initially) history major and realized memorizing facts like dates and names and places was the last thing I was interested in. I liked learning that W led to X which led to Y because of Z

Again hell yeah

I don't want to strictly link this on its own to type because other things affect sense of responsibility too, but you do seem way more consistently focused on duties than any Exxp would be. It's an approach most natural for Ixxjs.

lol yeh buddy

Quite strong indication of introversion. I.e. your default response to stress was with an introverted, not an extraverted orientation. Ofcourse big stress I'm sure can affect extraverted types to the degree of turning introverted-ish. But I get the sense that for you it's the default approach.

Yeah hard to say for certain cause there was a lot of bullying and boys raised by single mothers have a strong tendency towards avoidant behavior when not totally antisocial, but I'm inclined to agree with you here.

You went overly conscientious there even for Ixxj lol.

lmao it's not standard practice for an IxxJ to let people spend 3 hours trying to talk him/her into committing a felony against the national government?

I see this as quite Ti/Ni>Se/Fe.

So you're saying Se/Fe is "do fun, dumb, impulsive shit?" lol : P

Okay just to not sound entirely monotone about your typing lol, this is Se for sure in this case (not that I'm saying this is SLE specific. Se creative is able to get impulsive and even brash too).

Yeah it's not that often I get that fed up and impulsive but it's been known to happen when I get to the point of "I'm just so done with this shit"

Out of curiosity, multiple wholes...?

Going back to the references to Discrete Mathematics, if "People" = the Universe of discrete elements (people) I view people more in terms of "peoples" in separate sets and in subsets

Say for example in the graph below the Union of all equals "People" but the "Rational" circle is instead "Asians" and then "Integers" is Chinese and "Whole" is Han Chinese and "natural" is some smaller subset. "Irrational" might just be "non-Asian people" or "Europeans" (with their own unlisted subsets) with the empty space being "non-Asian & non-European peoples."

Talking about "people" as a single whole is not something I do. It's a set so broad to be almost meaningless, outside of a very basic taxonomic sense, where it's the assumed universe/context when talking about anything social or typological. Talking about "people as a whole" feels tautological and useless.

But there are multiple distinct peoples where the definitions are proximate and meaningful enough to consider and address.

real-numbers1.jpg

Bit more Se creative than Se lead if these are the two options.

Interesting. Is that because of the non-materialism? Because indecision is something that tends to get me screaming at traffic or getting somewhat rude and short with people.

Not very into Ep-like change (though ofcourse Ne is better at this than Se)

Yeah I respond well enough to surprises I think, but it's more of a reaction like "oh, okay. This is something new that I need to take care of/deal with and get back to what I was up to"

[Myst]

lol yeah that's what I'm starting to think, as well. I come down in the middle of so many of them when reading descriptions.

Good, means you got no bias lol

For Fe: More expressive. More effort trying to get things to be laid back and have fun.

OK, that's concrete enough, and yeah, I see you like that.

Dunno how things are over there but politically in America things (while I was growing up) got sorted either into two different kinds of bundled ways of thinking. For a very long time in the ideological wilderness it was spent trying to double down and define and adhere to a more consistent "true" system from some central principles of one of those two ways of thinking. A lot of it was coming to conclusions that are dog shit and I didn't really like/agree with but bit my tongue going "Well, that's how this stupid principle plays out so I guess that's how it is." About 6 years spent going down different rabbit holes trying to force my positions into unrealistic and stupid frameworks based on abstract and unworkable principles that result in completely repellent conclusions (eg. the "non-aggression principle" leading to complete atomism and social apathy to abusive practices by people or groups, shrugging off the life expectancy falling among my people due to suicide and drug abuse because "that's not my problem," and thinking that things are necessarily better because I can buy more cheap plastic shit from china for less this year than last year).

That stopped when I gave less of a shit about consistency and stuck more with just what I think is true or right, and had a minor realization that I was doing a lot of that ideological wandering because I wanted some sort of "us" or team to be on to struggle against the other team. A collective purpose and meaning to belong to and work for.

Hmm ok I was thinking of something else with the pidgeonholing, but this was interesting. Yeah it seems like everywhere I've been it's always two political sides/oppositions. Quite honestly I couldn't pick one side after a while of watching them when I eventually wanted to develop my own stance by thinking for myself lol. I try to go beyond all that I guess. I never tried to be this conscious about it as you though, with "ok this is how it plays out logically". I mean, I never tried to follow another's framework this consciously or whatever. I'm again getting the feel you got more focus on Ni lol. I think I'm simpler bc I'd just listen to instinct saying "nah this is complete bullshit", either that or tried to be very thorough "this doesn't add up atm so I'll need to do more watching and checking/sorting". But yeah, I get what you mean by rabbit holes, whenever I do try and test some system by someone else (anything from sports to Socionics), I do have to temporarily "act" as if I've "put it on" and then when it doesn't add up I run into a wall in the rabbithole lol. That is instead of just saying "ok let's just accept it if the a priori logic goes this way". I mean that's what I never did.

Can I ask how your new overall stance is about less consistency? It seems actually more consistent to me.

Yeah the "us" thing makes sense lol you are incredibly stereotypically Beta though lol. Maybe your sx/so adds to it too. The last sentence is really stereotypically collectivist/Fe-seeking/Ni-seeking LSI too, and I guess the soc instinct too.

More or less, yeah. There are so many possibilities for what might work and meticulously going through each and every one makes me want to pull my hair out more each time it doesn't work. Then in the back of my mine my I know my LII or ILE co-worker would likely see the potential likely alternative almost immediately. That process of sorting through myriad potentialities is like pulling teeth.

That's actually why I don't like the sort of job where there's too much troubleshooting to be done like that, because while I am able to adapt to things when I must, this sort of thing requires far more flexibility than what I am comfortable with (in the area of Ne yeah I guess). I'm not going to say SLEs like to get bogged down in shit either but to me this is more Ne PoLR than anything.

lol I was getting that impression when answering the questions. I was wondering if someone was going to jump in and say ESI because of that.

Ti is about right/wrong as much as Fi, just it's explicit (logical) and not implicit (feely).

lol yeah the only time I have any creativity is within appropriate jokes. lucky me .

Noticed you do have it there

Been told all my life I'm an opinionated dick lol coming to conclusions I'll argue over on a subject I've only just learned about.

(Same lol)

Thanks lol people that treat the very idea of exclusive definitions or valuations as innately immoral drive me up the walls.

Oh I meant discernment in general, not politically.

(I personally don't have a strong opinion on nationalism like that, either way)

I love sound clips, videos, personal interactions etc. where someone can speak in a rousing and emotionally evocative way, cut through a lot of bullshit and clearly say "this is what matters, and is worth moving mountains and giving everything for." There are a lot of quotes from saints and early 20th century politicians that have that effect, and I can never get enough of it.

If that's not LSI/EIE then I don't know what is.

Got some examples btw?

lmao yeah I only realized it after a few college course as an (initially) history major and realized memorizing facts like dates and names and places was the last thing I was interested in. I liked learning that W led to X which led to Y because of Z

For me the memorising of those facts is automatic lol but yeah that W->X->Y is what's interesting.

Yeah hard to say for certain cause there was a lot of bullying and boys raised by single mothers have a strong tendency towards avoidant behavior when not totally antisocial, but I'm inclined to agree with you here.

How did you fix the avoidance eventually?

lmao it's not standard practice for an IxxJ to let people spend 3 hours trying to talk him/her into committing a felony against the national government?

It can be for LSI (the endless arguing lol, being very principled like that.)

So you're saying Se/Fe is "do fun, dumb, impulsive shit?" lol : P

Sure

Yeah it's not that often I get that fed up and impulsive but it's been known to happen when I get to the point of "I'm just so done with this shit"

Right that's what I meant.

Going back to the references to Discrete Mathematics, if "People" = the Universe of discrete elements (people) I view people more in terms of "peoples" in separate sets and in subsets

Say for example in the graph below the Union of all equals "People" but the "Rational" circle is instead "Asians" and then "Integers" is Chinese and "Whole" is Han Chinese and "natural" is some smaller subset. "Irrational" might just be "non-Asian people" or "Europeans" (with their own unlisted subsets) with the empty space being "non-Asian & non-European peoples."

Talking about "people" as a single whole is not something I do. It's a set so broad to be almost meaningless, outside of a very basic taxonomic sense, where it's the assumed universe/context when talking about anything social or typological. Talking about "people as a whole" feels tautological and useless.

But there are multiple distinct peoples where the definitions are proximate and meaningful enough to consider and address.

I see what you mean. Thinking of people as a united whole to me actually is inspiring sometimes. For me it's other things that end up seeming meaningless and flat with me having no emotional connection to it at all either. Not sure what this depends on lol

Interesting. Is that because of the non-materialism? Because indecision is something that tends to get me screaming at traffic or getting somewhat rude and short with people.

Yes, that's what I meant. Issue with indecision... I would not relate that to Se's "position" here. A lot affects that, Rationality too.

Yeah I respond well enough to surprises I think, but it's more of a reaction like "oh, okay. This is something new that I need to take care of/deal with and get back to what I was up to"

Yeah, I get you (same)

[Sisyphean]

Good, means you got no bias lol

Hey lol that's a first

OK, that's concrete enough, and yeah, I see you like that.

That seems to be the consensus lol

Hmm ok I was thinking of something else with the pidgeonholing, but this was interesting. Yeah it seems like everywhere I've been it's always two political sides/oppositions. Quite honestly I couldn't pick one side after a while of watching them when I eventually wanted to develop my own stance by thinking for myself lol. I try to go beyond all that I guess. I never tried to be this conscious about it as you though, with "ok this is how it plays out logically". I mean, I never tried to follow another's framework this consciously or whatever. I'm again getting the feel you got more focus on Ni lol. I think I'm simpler bc I'd just listen to instinct saying "nah this is complete bullshit", either that or tried to be very thorough "this doesn't add up atm so I'll need to do more watching and checking/sorting". But yeah, I get what you mean by rabbit holes, whenever I do try and test some system by someone else (anything from sports to Socionics), I do have to temporarily "act" as if I've "put it on" and then when it doesn't add up I run into a wall in the rabbithole lol. That is instead of just saying "ok let's just accept it if the a priori logic goes this way". I mean that's what I never did.

Can I ask how your new overall stance is about less consistency? It seems actually more consistent to me.

Yeah the "us" thing makes sense lol you are incredibly stereotypically Beta though lol. Maybe your sx/so adds to it too. The last sentence is really stereotypically collectivist/Fe-seeking/Ni-seeking LSI too, and I guess the soc instinct too.

As far as consistency, I guess framed in a particular light it would be considered the most consistent, but I mostly meant that if a principle/idea I generally agree with has some sort of autistic and distasteful conclusion I just opt not to follow it to that far, consistency be damned in that case. The other meaning would be how in America at least all of these different ideas and frameworks often are built around an assumption of absolute universality--how it applies in one instance is how it must apply in all instances. That premise strikes me as collossally naive and stupid. My People aren't Those People.

An example of this universalism is the American inertia to "Free Trade," that universal equal uninhibited access to the national economy--internationally--is eo ipso a generator of positive results and sacrosanct. If towns are being thrown into economic depression and total unemployment because the jobs leave for India or China then those American workers should just "get more competitive" (how is never stated, often it means similarly accepting slave wages). The notion of the American government taking policy action specifically on behalf of the economic interests of Americans simply because they're Americans, irrespective of inhibiting and market distorting effects, is anathema because it's an anti-universalist and in that way inconsistent implementation of the idea of a Market Economy.

But as you pointed out, if reframed from a starting point of "I will do what's best for my people" it can become consistent rather than hypocritical. The accusation of hypocrisy on things like that doesn't phase me at all, anymore, I guess was the main drive of my statement.

That's actually why I don't like the sort of job where there's too much troubleshooting to be done like that, because while I am able to adapt to things when I must, this sort of thing requires far more flexibility than what I am comfortable with (in the area of Ne yeah I guess). I'm not going to say SLEs like to get bogged down in shit either but to me this is more Ne PoLR than anything.

Yeah that sounds exactly why I hate those parts of the job lol problems that I can't just bulldoze through.

Ti is about right/wrong as much as Fi, just it's explicit (logical) and not implicit (feely).

Hmm, explicit/implicit is a new way to think of it for me. I had been stuck with true/false vs morally right/wrong.

Oh I meant discernment in general, not politically.

(I personally don't have a strong opinion on nationalism like that, either way)

Yeah lol I thought so as well. I meant it more in a general principle as well. The very idea of any sort of discernment between good, bad, correct, incorrect, true, and false is anathema today. It hurts people's feelings, and excludes people, ideas, and things. The mindset and implications, ontologically, always make me viscerally nearly irrationally angry.

If that's not LSI/EIE then I don't know what is.

Got some examples btw?

Got a couple videos that are the first ones I could recall as being in that ballpark off the top of my head. Not trying to convert anyone (but everyone totally should : P ) but the biggest ones that come to mind are stories of Saint martyrs, a few Bible verses in those contexts, and St Louis de Montfort's prayer to Mary

Great story with this guy st-raymond-nonnatus-pray-for-us-2.jpg

Not a martyr but St Pius X was awesome 1-8.jpg tumblr_o1wwndWkyT1uaxri9o1_1280.jpg

Neither martyr nor saint, but a great speaker that didn't forget what inspiration looks like sheen love hate.jpg

"[15] I know thy works, that thou art neither cold, nor hot. I would thou wert cold, or hot.

[16] But because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold, nor hot, I will begin to vomit thee out of my mouth. [17] Because thou sayest: I am rich, and made wealthy, and have need of nothing: and knowest not, that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked. [18] I counsel thee to buy of me gold fire tried, that thou mayest be made rich; and mayest be clothed in white garments, and that the shame of thy nakedness may not appear; and anoint thy eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. [19] Such as I love, I rebuke and chastise. Be zealous therefore, and do penance. [20] Behold, I stand at the gate, and knock. If any man shall hear my voice, and open to me the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me."

St. Louis De Montfort's Prayer to Mary

Hail Mary, beloved Daughter of the Eternal Father! Hail Mary, admirable Mother of the Son! Hail Mary, faithful spouse of the Holy Ghost! Hail Mary, my dear Mother, my loving Mistress, my powerful sovereign! Hail my joy, my glory, my heart and my soul! Thou art all mine by mercy, and I am all thine by justice. But I am not yet sufficiently thine. I now give myself wholly to thee without keeping anything back for myself or others. If thou still seest in me anything which does not belong to thee, I beseech thee to take it and to make thyself the absolute Mistress of all that is mine. Destroy in me all that may be displeasing to God, root it up and bring it to nought; place and cultivate in me everything that is pleasing to thee.

May the light of thy faith dispel the darkness of my mind; may thy profound humility take the place of my pride; may thy sublime contemplation check the distractions of my wandering imagination; may thy continuous sight of God fill my memory with His presence; may the burning love of thy heart inflame the lukewarmness of mine; may thy virtues take the place of my sins; may thy merits be my only adornment in the sight of God and make up for all that is wanting in me. Finally, dearly beloved Mother, grant, if it be possible, that I may have no other spirit but thine to know Jesus and His divine will; that I may have no other soul but thine to praise and glorify the Lord; that I may have no other heart but thine to love God with a love as pure and ardent as thine I do not ask thee for visions, revelations, sensible devotion or spiritual pleasures. It is thy privilege to see God clearly; it is thy privilege to enjoy heavenly bliss; it is thy privilege to triumph gloriously in Heaven at the right hand of thy Son and to hold absolute sway over angels, men and demons; it is thy privilege to dispose of all the gifts of God, just as thou willest.

Such is, O heavenly Mary, the "best part," which the Lord has given thee and which shall never be taken away from thee-and this thought fills my heart with joy. As for my part here below, I wish for no other than that which was thine: to believe sincerely without spiritual pleasures; to suffer joyfully without human consolation; to die continually to myself without respite; and to work zealously and unselfishly for thee until death as the humblest of thy servants. The only grace I beg thee to obtain for me is that every day and every moment of my life I may say: Amen, so be it's all that thou didst do while on earth; Amen, so be it's all that thou art now doing in Heaven; Amen, so be it-to all that thou art doing in my soul, so that thou alone mayest fully glorify Jesus in me for time and eternity. Amen.


First Video: https://www.bitchute.com/video/OTMlklCnkfTh/

Second Video:

How did you fix the avoidance eventually?

My job forces me to approach/initiate conversation with strangers on the phone and in person regularly and frequently. Some of the client engagements are specifically about starting conversations with people in order to elicit either information or physical access to the premises. Kind of a "sink or swim" thrown in the deep-end solution, but at least it worked.

Right that's what I meant.

I see what you mean. Thinking of people as a united whole to me actually is inspiring sometimes. For me it's other things that end up seeming meaningless and flat with me having no emotional connection to it at all either. Not sure what this depends on lol

To clarify I don't think that "people" necessarily a functionally redundant set in every possible scenario, but that for it to be meaningful would require a considerable social set existing outside of it which poses at least a potential existential threat to make a common "humanity" exist presently, and proximately in my and other's minds contra the not-humanity of the new other, a la the process the boys in the Robber's Cave Experiment automatically engaged in once the experiment organizers were able to externally provide a common goal.

But since antagonistic aliens aren't very likely, that's all hypothetical lol

Yes, that's what I meant. Issue with indecision... I would not relate that to Se's "position" here. A lot affects that, Rationality too.

I'm assuming particularly introverted Rationality, since my understanding of extroverted Rationality would have to take stock of multiple data points or sources of emotional input first.

[Myst]

As far as consistency, I guess framed in a particular light it would be considered the most consistent, but I mostly meant that if a principle/idea I generally agree with has some sort of autistic and distasteful conclusion I just opt not to follow it to that far, consistency be damned in that case. The other meaning would be how in America at least all of these different ideas and frameworks often are built around an assumption of absolute universality--how it applies in one instance is how it must apply in all instances. That premise strikes me as collossally naive and stupid. My People aren't Those People.

Hm well yeah you do need to add more conditions in many cases than just apply the thing universally. Very few principles can be applied truly universally.

So by extending and improving the system, you can avoid the wrong conclusions.

It's interesting how you learned to recognise how a conclusion would be "autistic or distasteful". This definitely requires some more awareness or trust in feelings than what you had before, when you were trying to follow the conclusions blindly.

An example of this universalism is the American inertia to "Free Trade," that universal equal uninhibited access to the national economy--internationally--is eo ipso a generator of positive results and sacrosanct. If towns are being thrown into economic depression and total unemployment because the jobs leave for India or China then those American workers should just "get more competitive" (how is never stated, often it means similarly accepting slave wages). The notion of the American government taking policy action specifically on behalf of the economic interests of Americans simply because they're Americans, irrespective of inhibiting and market distorting effects, is anathema because it's an anti-universalist and in that way inconsistent implementation of the idea of a Market Economy.

I would say in our current world it's quite fine and the most sensible for the government to take action for their people, as we (as in, humanity overall) definitely did not create the environment so far for true globalism.

And it's an interesting question, I just rarely contemplate it lol, about how you'd want to reconcile globalism with nationalism.

But as you pointed out, if reframed from a starting point of "I will do what's best for my people" it can become consistent rather than hypocritical. The accusation of hypocrisy on things like that doesn't phase me at all, anymore, I guess was the main drive of my statement.

Yes, that's a good overall high-level principle. What kind of people accused you of hypocrisy?

Hmm, explicit/implicit is a new way to think of it for me. I had been stuck with true/false vs morally right/wrong.

Well it's a Socionics distinction for Sensing/Logic vs Intuition/Ethics. For me the most interesting was to figure out/accept that Ethics is implicit.

Yeah lol I thought so as well. I meant it more in a general principle as well. The very idea of any sort of discernment between good, bad, correct, incorrect, true, and false is anathema today.

+1000

It hurts people's feelings, and excludes people, ideas, and things. The mindset and implications, ontologically, always make me viscerally nearly irrationally angry.

Wasn't the idea actually to avoid hurting people's feelings and total inclusion?

Got a couple videos that are the first ones I could recall as being in that ballpark off the top of my head. Not trying to convert anyone (but everyone totally should : P ) but the biggest ones that come to mind are stories of Saint martyrs, a few Bible verses in those contexts, and St Louis de Montfort's prayer to Mary

Thanks for the examples. Yeah, you want an EIE lol

My job forces me to approach/initiate conversation with strangers on the phone and in person regularly and frequently. Some of the client engagements are specifically about starting conversations with people in order to elicit either information or physical access to the premises. Kind of a "sink or swim" thrown in the deep-end solution, but at least it worked.

I've heard that from an LSI before.

To clarify I don't think that "people" necessarily a functionally redundant set in every possible scenario, but that for it to be meaningful would require a considerable social set existing outside of it which poses at least a potential existential threat to make a common "humanity" exist presently, and proximately in my and other's minds contra the not-humanity of the new other, a la the process the boys in the Robber's Cave Experiment automatically engaged in once the experiment organizers were able to externally provide a common goal.

But since antagonistic aliens aren't very likely, that's all hypothetical lol

I don't think only other living beings can pose a potential existential threat.

And that is a strong argument for globalism for me.

Even if not doing it in the nonsensical way as it's now. (I'm not going to get too political here now lol, but yeah, the attempt at introducing these migrants was done in a totally disorganised chaotic silly and very harmful way.)

I'm assuming particularly introverted Rationality, since my understanding of extroverted Rationality would have to take stock of multiple data points or sources of emotional input first.

I think Ej's are very decisive too, they easily take stock of those multiple data points in a dynamically flexible way (flexible compared to Ij lol).