I think Voldemort from HP, or the actor who plays him Ralph Fiennes anyway, is EII. Somehow not so scary, kind of evokes sympathy.
Upon further reflection, I believe of the 2 EII's I know, one is balanced subtype Sp/So and the other Ne leaning So/Sx and the SLE's involved ranged from Se Sx/So to Ti So/Sx.
Both EII's, true to form, were repulsed by Se and staunchly demanded Fi before they were willing to go anywhere. The SLE's were only after cheap thrills and couldn't get what they wanted from the EII's.
Edit: what is it about your relationship with the ILI that didn't work out for you?
Last edited by Allegra; 06-23-2018 at 12:27 AM.
I have recently witnessed that undeveloped SEEs get drawn to LIIs (specifically since a lot of LIIs are attractive and prestigious, opposite to ILIs) and stay like in a "full of daily based fight" relatinships with them and try to make it work by trying to understand LII, which does not work
I have been in a friendship for about 10 years which started out with a mutual enthusiastic giggly teenage girl obsession with the Twilight series and bonding over being bullied by the same ‘mean girls’ at school....but over the years this friendship has gradually become more and more stressful on both sides. My friend can be very blunt, rude even I dare say. Makes snide comments about other women and people who cross her in general. She has accused me of not caring enough in the past due to me suffering depression and not being able to muster suitable enthusiasm for a trip she was pushing me to do with her. Also called me out for going to college and ‘abandoning her’. Quite a few problematic events have happened between us though I have until now made excuses as to her attitude towards me; I have felt so consumed by guilt for being self preoccupied in regards to my mental health recovery and growth in my career. I thought that it was me being a terrible friend and that’s why she wasn’t happy . The reality is we aren’t compatible and have grown down different paths. But only now on distancing from her and having the objective input from other people, I can see how problematic some of her words and actions were. She’d blank me on messenger for days if I was upset or highly anxious and needed to vent, because in her words ‘you’re going in circles. I won’t speak to you until you stop worrying.’ I can see now that it was punishment for me not being how she wanted me to be...completely compliant with her wishes to talk about herself and her annoyances and problems.
I suppose I stayed so long because I am loyal to the bond we did establish at school; the joy of delving into fictional worlds to escape our tumultuous high school experience. She understood also what it was like to not be ‘a cool girl’: As time went on and I realised the clashes occurring, I guess I took all the blame on my chin and presumed it was me being overly sensitive, and that we’d patch up if I tried enough. Maybe the truth is for a long time I have believed I deserved to be treated like a doormat and a figure of fun.
I say when, you say why, I say I don't know, because it could be anything, and we will just have to wait and see. Methinks your upbringing in the endless winter of Canada has probably frozen a bit more than your ass. The ice has relentlessly advanced into your soul, abrading and corroding its innocence to become so rigid that you fail to see any nuance within good and evil.
That reminds me of a comment from an earlier conversation: "it seems like with EIIs, how they feel about you initially is how they are going to feel about you for eternity lol"
I don't usually think of people's potential, but I try to think the best of people's current intentions and sometimes of their past.
This reminds me of the aforementioned quote even moreso.
I can actually relate to this part.
Oh, more support for that quote!
Wait wait so, you like her first quote? I know why I like Minde's first quote there, but it's just so hard to imagine ESTj liking that. Maybe I'm misinformed or just want validation lol. I think I'm stuck in the idea of ESTj being like "Ew, emotions, yuck!", perhaps a one dimensional view. But what Minde said was a deep emotional experience, and you liked it, and I'm just like .....0.o? Sorry if I'm calling you out or putting you on the spot, but if there are ESTj women out there that like that kind of stuff I just gotta know.
She clearly described a certain sort of phenomenon that I couldn't put words to but is precious to me. Those moments are probably a lot scarcer to an LSE than to an EII. So with such limited experience an LSE might not know how to react to them. But it's like this incredible closeness within the quiet. And if the connection is announced, it could be damaged, like it's a fragile thing, like a souffle in the oven - okay, that's a bad example, because when I'm in such a moment I savor it, whether it's a connection that's glad or sad (and I think the sad ones are more likely to happen because then people let their guard down more).
Basically I'd say: yeah, we like it, but we don't talk about it. And loud emotions are yuck, but this is a deep subtle one.
Whoa......loooooooool. Sorry I am not laughing at you. I am laughing at the fact that what you described is very eerie to me. Very eerie because the words you used I feel like are the words I have tried to find to explain this phenomenon I have experienced and even wrote about here on the forum with a female ESTj. Specifically when you say "It's like an incredible closeness within the quite." I did not know that was real for other people, but yes that's exactly the phenomenon for me, closeness in the quite. I feel less special now and more like a product of duality lol, but I am glad this phenomenon is a "thing".
EII on a date with the wrong guy:
At 0:45, she says, "Well, come on, big guy." But Elvis is not a Caregiver, sooooooo.......it's a No Go.
Ne is idealistic and innocent. Se polr types are often some of the most unacquainted with "the cold, hard world." This doubles for the EII, who doesn't have the reality of Ti to fall back on to balance the idealism of Ne. In addition to all this, the EII is a positivist, so the type will naturally be more trusting.
I've had a lot of experiences with Se, and they were rather painful. I've gotten more aware over the years about who was and was not trustworthy. It's only through trial and severe error that I I've learned, though.
I haven't really gotten much experience with LSEs, so I can't tell you how they pull EIIs out if these scenarios. IEIs, even though they are quasi-identical to EII, tend not to have this issue at all. Their Ni tells them all about people and causes them to doubt them, and their Fe makes them aware that people often wear masks, because they do the same thing.
Your question isn't offensive really. It's a good question. I think the methods of the Beta quadra and Delta quadra are quite different. The Beta NFs want to identify and aggressively attack problems they see in others and society. The Delta NFs would rather build a simulacrum and live in it until it becomes reality. One method requires attention to problems, and the other, contrarily, requires ignoring them.
Ni prefers a crude perception of reality, because their intuition is introverted and serial. That means that it's basically a manual transmission. They have to be consciously aware of the bumps on the road of life to be able to handle them.
Ne, on the other hand, is extroverted and massively parallel. It's like an automatic transmission. Its smooth operation depends on unconsciousness and unawareness. Not knowing what the reality of the situation is, Ne passes through it.
If you want to understand the differences in the modes of being, just read Alice in Wonderland. The first time, just read it through, not too deeply. The second time, analyze why things happen in the order they do. The second approach will give you an Ni perspective, and the first an Ne. Let me warn you, though: the Ni approach with Alice in Wonderland can be fucking terrifying. What once seemed like a simple children's book becomes something completely different.
Or better yet: watch Alice in Wonderland for the Ne perspective. Read the book and analyze it like I said for Ni. The Ni perspective is more easily communicated through the book.
It seems like, no matter how much I've learned about the NiSe perspective of life, I'm still a few thousand years behind them. For other Ne egos out there, you have no idea what people are up to sometimes lol.
Last edited by Aramas; 05-27-2019 at 08:23 PM.
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Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
No LSE are not there to grab EII out of bad relationships. LSE are not some savior hero deal. EII fall into bad relationships because they choose to be with a toxic person out of pity, out of hopefulness. EII will bypass all the signs of bad person for the hope of a prosperous relationship - this is where they will test the waters in order to build a closer bond. LSE are there to just provide a comfortable existence for EII and that they do well. Yes EII will date a conflict relations. My recent two EII friends, one was married to an SLE who she divorced with two kids, the other is seeing an LSE after choosing too many bad people to be around.
This
So are IEE
no not idealize a person. No one is perfect; but rather idealize the potential of a future relationship and bond. Idolize isn't the right word...looking forward to a lasting bond is.
Last edited by Beautiful sky; 05-28-2019 at 12:34 AM.
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Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
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Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
I'm not at all easily controlled by people. I do things willingly out of my heart. I'm my own woman.
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Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Well personally i don't get attracted to toxic or bad people. I don't want a project to fix, but a partner able to give and take equally. But if the person gradually revealed their flaws and toxicity. I try to put a blind eye to it because of my Se polr. In some ways, i'd rather live this constructed happy fantasy rather than be able to deal with it realistically because then i need to confront reality and nothing i hate more than confrontation (also i have fear of abandonment so i cant handle ending relationships, i know it'll break me). So i tend to stick in bad and dead relationships, even if my needs or wants have been ignored. I would try to focus on the good from that person and ignore the bad in order to maintain my happy fairytale fantasy to remain relatively sane.
Last edited by ShiningLunette; 11-13-2020 at 09:39 PM.
Be the reason someone believes in the goodness of people.
What is Se polr. Did I win the Jepordy?
If Se is ranking things by hierarchy, then lack of that means you're picking by some random whimsy you find attractive. That's dumb. It's like actually using astrology unironically to determine the person you live with until you or they die.
Oh and don't worry, they'll forget the reason and become bitter about it later for a similar random whimsy, so ye better be able to either remind them or have no irredeemable qualities that piss them off. And yeah, that is basically my dealings with my mum, who actually should listen to me a bunch more, but for the stupid reasons above, won't. Meh, she's figuring it out.
TL;DR Se POLR makes you oblivious.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrenology
An optimist - does not get discouraged under any circumstances. Life upheavals and stressful events only toughen him and make more confident. He likes to laugh and entertain people. Enters contact with someone by involving him with a humorous remark. His humor is often sly and contain hints and double meanings. Easily enters into arguments and bets, especially if he is challenged. When arguing his points is often ironic, ridicules the views of his opponent. His irritability and hot temper may be unpleasant to others. However, he himself is not perceptive of this and believes that he is simply exchanging opinions.
http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.php?title=LIE_Profile_by_Gulenko
I’m finding it very hard to detach from an SEE because he’s like a puppy, very in your face but adorable. Doesn’t take aversion or rejection as an answer, stays in contact and it’s fun playing around with his emotions just to see how he’ll react. He can be quite manipulative and has hurt me not once, but it feels so natural with him. I’m e4 EII, he’s SEE type 6w7.
C-EII-INFj 4w3 Sx/sp 479
EIIs do a thing were they try to find faults in people and so when an SLE sees an EII go talk to like five people about moral traits they dislike...Of course it will seem weird to them. That may sound Fe but it's really not. Bc they are picking out reasons to not like someone or feeling hurt from something.
I have a bunch of different perspectives on this. 1. I would not date such a person. 2. Cheating is bad.
My recommendation is that if a person actually needs help they’ll either make it really obvious, or it’ll be rather apparent that something is going on that they really need help with.
Further thoughts. 1. I don’t think this is the person who judges emotionally using intuition. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought such a person would be very guarded, and passive, only opening up after they vet the person in question.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrenology
An optimist - does not get discouraged under any circumstances. Life upheavals and stressful events only toughen him and make more confident. He likes to laugh and entertain people. Enters contact with someone by involving him with a humorous remark. His humor is often sly and contain hints and double meanings. Easily enters into arguments and bets, especially if he is challenged. When arguing his points is often ironic, ridicules the views of his opponent. His irritability and hot temper may be unpleasant to others. However, he himself is not perceptive of this and believes that he is simply exchanging opinions.
http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.php?title=LIE_Profile_by_Gulenko