Trump Babe Potential For Women (Rate Yourselves)

[wasp]

Essentially, then, the difference is how we assess "what's OK". How do you determine this and why?

I made my criteria clear in the above post: all speech is assumed to be permissible unless it is made illegal. I assume that people are capable of governing their own behaviour, and that people's words do not always imply a subsequent action (often we just say something to explore it for fun, out of curiosity, open to a number of responses, in fact that may be the interesting part - comparing what happens to what we guessed would happen, like in this thread). People's motives and intentions can't be measured so they are a poor means to decide on what's acceptable.

I like to propose outlandish things simply to see where they might lead, as someone responds, I get more ideas. I enjoy the process of examining contrasting things (e.g. pieces of music by two or more composers writing in the same period/style. Why? I don't necessarily know at the time. I find out as I go along), so it is all a stimulating mental exercise for me, which may be why you consider me insensitive - that is just not what I am focused on.

like I said before, my issue isn't with this specific thread, even though I dislike it. I've noted that more than a few people have called you out for your sexist commentary, but even after they've made it clear to you that it's "not ok", you've still treated them that way, but you don't get to determine other people's boundaries. this thread is an outlier in the sense that you aren't targeting anybody specifically, but that doesn't make it any less disconcerting to those who've had to deal with you on a personal basis, so I determine "what's ok" based on other people's reactions, and so should you, otherwise I guarantee you it's going to result in worse outcomes than a simple lecture online.

I think there's some confusion about the similarities between the two situations and what generally bothers me and what doesn't. This isn't a commentary on the validity of anybody's feelings or reactions or anything like that. If I seem terse it's because I feel like I'm being positioned to rehash the past which is making me feel uncomfortable and clammed up. It sounds like the situation here might involve more than sperma being sexist and having an abrasively crude sense of humor, in which case my comments were based in ignorance.

the point is that it's not just about what bothers you, personally, and I'm sorry if it seems like I'm rehashing the past for any other reason than to clarify my stance. I believe you when you say that you weren't aware of the full extent of his behaviors, I'm just pointing out that the forum's issue isn't with this specific thread, so they're not reacting negatively to this thread alone, they're reacting negatively to his general presence, and, in that sense, it's no different from your own issues with similar behaviors in other people, so it is absolutely unfair to call out other people for taking issue with him when you are no different in that regard. you know why these behaviors would cause other people discomfort.

[Spermatozoa]

like I said before, my issue isn't with this specific thread, even though I dislike it. I've noted that more than a few people have called you out for your sexist commentary, but even after they've made it clear to you that it's "not ok", you've still treated them that way, but you don't get to determine other people's boundaries. this thread is an outlier in the sense that you aren't targeting anybody specifically, but that doesn't make it any less disconcerting to those who've had to deal with you on a personal basis, so I determine "what's ok" based on other people's reactions, and so should you, otherwise I guarantee you it's going to result in worse outcomes than a simple lecture online.

Conflict from other threads is tangential to our argument, and it should be dealt with at the time, rather than resurrected from the dead by you months later as some kind of gavel to beat me with. Imagine what would happen if you adjusted your behaviour whenever somebody complained about it.

I just don't think it's legitimate for you, me or anyone else on this forum to shut down a discussion that isn't about them (the few exceptions to this, like violent threats, very rarely occur). So sure, you might find this thread uncomfortable, but that's life. I find a lot of shit stupid/obnoxious too, but in such a situation, I always weigh up the possibility of hurt/offence vs the certainty of a fun, interesting train of thought for someone else being suppressed.

So in general:

If I make a comment about you, you have a veto right over my speech.
If I make a comment about anything else, my speech trumps any hurt feelings.

And vice versa.

This is all I expect from other people.